Thiel Owners

Jafant:   I am in Greensboro NC for what that is worth  as you mentioned the southeast.

Jafant,   i may be wrong but i think it was sonic frontiers but do not hold me to that.  i have to say that the BHK amp really gives me the best of both worlds.  liquid and romantic like tubes,  but also very detailed.  they have voiced it well. 

hi Jafant,   truthfully i buy direct from PS but Taylor is only about 30 minutes from my home.   he is who i got my 2.7's from back in 2014.  of course the 3.7's  came from Rob at CST.  I have not been to Goldprint since i got the 2.7's and i know he has moved and expanded his operation.

all i can say is that i have zero problems driving my current 3.7's and the recently departed 2.7's.  specs do not always give us the entire picture. You can bet that when Bascom H King designs a high end amp,  it will work with almost any fine speaker

what a great story.   hope you feel better.  if you are ever in Greensboro NC come by and i will play mine for you

i thought the 2.4's were fantastic and were a big improvement over the 2.2's.   but every time i moved up (2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.7) in the 2 series the changes were always dramatic. 

there is a lot of valuable and useful tips on the Mapleshade website.  here are two that are relevant to the post above:  http://www.mapleshadestore.com/freeupgrades.php

Room Set-up & Speaker Placement Try Near Field Listening

Almost everybody sits way too far from their speakers, that is, 8' to 10' or more. Try a low chair (or floor pillow) 5' away. You’ll hear a phenomenal increase in clarity, bass impact, and soundstage—roughly like spending 100% more on your speakers. Sitting close (aka near-field listening) tremendously reduces all room acoustic problems and the need for expensive room treatments.

Sit Low To The Floor

Nearly everybody sits too high. The "tweeters at ear level" rule sounds logical but almost always fails when tested. Every speaker has a different optimum listening height; if you’re off the optimum ear height, you’re not getting your money’s worth. Test by sitting on one, then two, then three phone books on the floor at your normal listening spot. At the optimum height, you’ll hear an amazing new warmth and fullness in baritone voice, trombones, tenor sax, plucked bass—and a far more natural treble balance.

i have played with it over the years and found sitting with my ear about 4" below the tweeter and about 7.5'-8' away  from the drivers works best

congrats Pwhinson.  sounds like you hit a home run with the Pass amp.

Professor:  do you have a small stereo shop in your home.   that is a heck of a speaker collection. 

Dan:  I certainly understand about your speakers starting to morph.   mine were actually pretty bad the first night i heard them but now they are fantastically good.
Jeff Joseph speakers are great and I am adding Magico because I liked what I heard with their new baby speaker, but not enough to want to not keep the 3.7's. O course being a PS Audio guy,   their new AN speakers are sure to be great.  

speaker grills:  friend or foe.  https://audiophilereview.com/affordable-speakers/speaker-grill-covers-friend-or-foe.html

i had forgotten that

Tom:  thank you so much for the info on the speaker grills.   I posted the link above just because i thought it was interesting.  It does not surprise me a  bit that Thiel speakers would not treat them as an after thought.

  I still remember calling Gary Dayton when i found out that Jim had passed.  Even though i had never met Jim,  i felt really sad about that and wanted to give Gary my condolences

fingers are so crossed.   which model are you looking at.

hi Bighempin,   it was great seeing you and i am so glad you enjoyed your visit.   I am honored and pleased that my system sounded so good to you.   I  am such a huge fan of the PS gear and think the BHK amps are fantastic with Thiel speakers (at least with the 2.7and 3.7 as i have not tried others with the PS amp).  However i think that most people who have not experienced what one of the PS power plants can do are missing out on getting the best from their systems.   I have owned numerous iterations of them and the P15 and P20 will transform your system for sure.  Even the older and smaller models are great and are critical for a system to perform at its best.  I sure hope you can get the speakers you want especially the 3.7's as they are like mini IRS speakers.

hi guys,  it was great having bighemp here and really introducing him to what a properly set up home system can do.  thanks Jafant for your kind words.   so much of the thread has been about the updates that TT and others are working on,  and truthfully a lot of it was over my head and i also know that the .7 speakers will not be seeing any mods anytime soon.  I am so blessed to have been able to get the 3.7's from Rob last April and they have continued to improve.  Of course in my opinion,  a big part of the improved sound is the addition of the P15 and then P20 power plants.  gosh those are indispensable to a good system.   Thosb asked about what i will do when the new PS speakers come out.  They are probably the only things that would make me give up my 3.7's,  but i hating changing speakers versus amps, preamps, etc.  my whole system is dialed in for Thiel and has been for 35 years.  The only reason i would consider the new PS speakers is that they will be matched with my all PS system.

Jafant asked about  cd recommendations (I do not stream at home or play vinyl as cds are so great through the now sadly out of production PS player).  i would suggest Raising Sand by Robert Plant and Allison Krause.   Have had it for years and when i played it last week i was knocked over.   it was like it had been remastered the sound was so much better.  same for Old Kit Bag by Richard Thompson.  a killer album for sure.  the truth is that with the improvements i have made over the last year or so (MG Audio speaker cable among others) that many  cds that used to be good sounding now sound great.  what a wonderful hobby.  may we all live long and prosper and enjoy our wonderful audio systems.

I will add my two cents here:  A good friend and I both own 3.7's, and found they improved a lot with the addition of a good sub (we both got REL S/5 SHO).  the comment above "The one thing the Thiel’s do wrong is I believe they compress and distort a tiny bit on full scale orchestral recordings at high volumes" is something i too experienced with 2.4's, 2.7's. and even 3.7's. However the addition of a great sub should really change that. A properly set up sub does more than just add deep bass notes,  it really fills out a system and allows the full power of the orchestra to come through.  If i had the space and the $$$   I would have two but not now.

Easy.  I use the cable provided by REL and run it to the speaker connections on the back of the amp.  REL sounds much better this way, and is their preferred hookup,  over going to the low level inputs. If you have a PS amp,  you will need an extra connector to prevent hum when the amp goes into standby.   Todd it is money well spent as my friend Bob just wrote me and thanked me for talking him into pairing a REL with his 3.7's

hi Tom,  i wanted to let you know i had a nice little correspondence with Dana Cunningham and mentioned that you had recommended her music.  She thinks the world of you.  Kent

   From Tom Thiel:  "The odd jujitsu is that the human auditory brain is so good at assembling-synthesizing known tonal sounds from the transient impulse data stream . . . that in an intellectual way, we enjoy the decoding process which we call hearing.
For myself, and the small minority of those who 'get it', there is a direct path to the core being when that sonic analysis-reassembly is not necessary, when the unadulterated musical signal arrives as natural sound. As Andy says, and as the physics supports, and psychoacoustics agrees, there is only one way to accomplish that direct stream in a multiple driver system: first order crossover slopes."
I wonder (just a guess)  if this is in some ways similar to  jitter with regard to  digital.  Digital was fatiguing for so long and now there is a lot of thinking that jitter was the problem and companies like PS and others have addressed that issue and thus digital is less fatiguing.  Perhaps Thiel with their first order crossovers make our brains work less hard at assembling what we hear?

thank you Tom. all though i cannot honestly claim that i understand all you said, i get the main points for sure. When i listen to a well recorded symphony, such as on Reference Recordings, i really get a sense of a complete orchestra and it sounds real and alive  and very coherent, though obviously not at the same scale as the real thing.

hi TT,  thanks for the recommendation of that album.  the one i got was live at Stone Mountain and it is really lovely.  You are one wise and insightful person as i can tell that from the way you write.

hi Todd,  i may be over my head here but there are two kinds of phase that I know of.  One is absolute phase which is easy to test with the Reference recordings burn in and test cd.  that shows if something is hooked up incorrectly and thus out of phase.  the other is much tougher as the only way to know is to have a button on the preamp or DAC (my PS DAC has it) where you just test for in phase or out of phase.   this has more to do with the recording than anything in your system. 

hi Tom,   thanks for the clarification on phase, absolute phase, and all those other phase things.  i had mixed up polarity with phase but your comments make me realize how many things can go wrong in the process.   Also thanks for the info on DC.  I will have to get the Dancing album.  your comment about WH was interesting as i found many of their albums clean but not real sounding.  My fave artist on WH was Michael Hedges who was such a great talent and gone way to soon

@pwhinson.    greetings.   i actually never had a sub when i had the 2.4's so i did not know how they would work.   the sub worked great with my .7 speakers.  your new speakers look fantastic.   i sure look forward to hearing how they do once broken in.  Basically from my experience, a new speaker needs a lot of breaking in.  my 3.7's sounded terrible first out of the box and took at least a week to sound decent.  So I would not worry if they are not fantastic for the first week or so.

Todd: i do not, but i am a huge fan of the PS BHK amp as Bighempin heard and can testify to how good it sounded.

FWIIW:   mine are 129 and 130 so very early.   I would call Rob Gillum and get his info on this.  when you say dome are you meaning the tweeter or the actual cap on the top of the speaker

just received this from Rob as well:  "hi Kent,  Hope everything on your end is going well. I did some research, and here is what I found. In January 2007 the CS3.7 was introduced (original version). On Jan 12 2008 revision 1 was introduced at approximately serial number #517,18. On October 4 2008, revision 2 was initiated at approximately serial number #881,82. Revision 2 is the current layout"

 

Thanks,

hey Beetle,  where do you live?

hi Tom,  if you are even in NC i would be honored to have you come and listen to my system with 3.7's.  it is my fifth generation speaker 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, and finally the mighty 3.7

for those interested the inside dimensions of the SA stands are 11.5" by 11.5" and they have three adjustable spikes underneath

I agree.   i purchased two of the coaxes for the 3.7.  never have needed the lower drivers because in all my 30 plus years of ThIel ownership,   I have never damaged one.

I have a set of Sound Anchors that i have not used for years once i got the 2.4 series in 2007.  however they will work with most of the earlier 2 series such as 2.0 and 2.2.   might work with 2.3 but i never had those so not positive.   anyone interested can leave a message here or email me at kent@thehubltd.com

as i mentioned above i have a set of the Sound Anchors for earlier Thiel 2 series.   i had to use them because the speakers did allow me to level them or adjust the spikes up and down.   with the 2.4's they were not needed. however i never had an outrigger set for the 2.4's but found great success in sound improvement by using the big brass feet from MapleShade.  I use those feet under all my electronics but the speaker feet allow for them to be physically attached to the speakers.  remember that with those feet,  the bigger they are, the better the sound.

after 35 years of having Thiel,  I agree with Tom that the best sound is pretty much straight ahead,  or maybe a tiny bit of toe in.   i have my 3.7's set up with a distance of  9'  between the coaxes and 8' from my ears to the coaxes.   i got a lot of good info from MapleShade plus i really like their Sampson rack and brass feet.  http://www.mapleshadestore.com/freeupgrades.php

"Not to pick on any specific brands, but the some of the often recommended amps from companies such as Ayre, Bryston, Pass, PS Audio, etc. might work wonderfully with some Thiel’s, but are not designed or spec’d by those very manufactures, (independent testing, such as those found in Stereophile will also confirm this) for the sub 4 Ohm loads of some later model Thiel’s."   I cannot comment on some of the other brands listed by Unsounds, but the PS audio BHK 250 amp is magnificent with my 3.7's, and i have a friend who sold a Classe amp to get the BHK for his 3.7's, and he too is very impressed and pleased.  the only thing better would be to get the BHK mono blocks.

Greetings:  I copied Paul McGowan on some of the concerns about matching Thiel speakers with the BHK 250 amp.  here is his response: "What is it they think disqualifies the BHK? You might mention that Tom Thiel has asked for a BHK 250 for his continuing work in Jim’s designs.

SDL4:  not trying to get you to spend money,  but the transition from 2.2's to 2.4's was fantastic. one of the biggest jumps i have ever made in audio.  I owned the 2.2's from 1991-2007 so they were my longest owned speaker and they were great.   But the 2.4 really changed the game. 

I would like to once again weigh in on this issue as i have owned five different models of Thiel going back to the 2.0 and have used many different amps including modified Haflers (way back),  Audio Research,  Rowlands,  Quads,  Marantz Reference,  old PS Audio,  and now the PS BHK 250.   To my knowledge i have never had a compatibility issue and i have been know to crank them a bit (but not above 90DB).   I think any well designed amp from a reputable company (Pass, ARC,  PS, Bryston, etc.)  should all be fine unless one really really plays them loud, but then that is not what Thiel speakers are for.  They are about quality not quantity.

thanks Unsounds for all the good info.   You are a lot more technical than me as a lot of that is over my head,  but I certainly appreciate your continuing contributions to this discussion.  Until i got the 3.7's,  i only owned four generations of the two series,  and i do not think they were as difficult to drive as speakers such as the cs5 or 7.2.   Years ago a friend had  a three series with an equalizer, but i forgot the model.  that one i think was tougher. 

sdl4:  welcome to our little world of Thiel lovers.   It is fun for sure.   I understand about the increased dollars,  but if you ever get a chance to hear a pair of 2.4's take it for sure. 

well i thought they were fantastic and were a nice improvement over the 2.2's.    the 2.7s were better still but not by as much of a margin.  Certainly if you can pick up a pair of them,  especially in the hot rod version SE,  then i would certainly,  $$$ permitting, go for it.

Laserjock:  any dealer who auditions Thiel speakers with an Onkyo receiver is either very lazy or very inept or both.  that is like test driving a BMW 3 series with a set of bias ply tires.  not good

now i understand.  still a funny combination even for a home seller.the 2.4 is a great speak.  just ask  Beetle

I think i see a whole new business unfolding before our eyes. pretty cool.

hi Paco and welcome.   i have owned Thiel speakers since 1985 and have had four sets of the two series ending with the 2.7's.  Now have the 3.7's. However for the past 20 years or so,  regardless of speaker, i have been sitting in the same spot.  you did not mention how far apart you have your speakers but i have mine about 3.5 feet from the back wall and they are roughly 9' apart from tweeter to tweeter,  and about 7' from my ear.   I believe in nearfield listening as it ameliorates  a lot of the room issues.  I still use room treatments but not a lot.  Before you start trying all those room treatments,  try moving into a different position as i think 9' is a long way to be from the speakers unless they are very far apart.  Also make sure your ear is below the tweeter,  not above.  this is just a starting point for you.  one suggestion: buy a spare mid/tweeter from Rob. Those drivers can be a bit touchy sometimes.

Hi all,  yes the page suddenly stretched out for no reason.   thought it was my computer.  Paco, may i suggest something better than spikes.  I have used the brass feet from Mapleshade to much better effect, and also use the GAIA speaker feet.  I realize that i sit a little closer than Thiel has recommended,  but i have tried many positions and it seems to work.  I had the national sales manager and set up guru,  Trent Suggs from REL,  here about 6 months ago and he agreed that the placement of everything including me,  was about right.  Paco,  here is a link to some info that might help as it sure helped me many years ago.  look under room placement and speaker setup.   http://www.mapleshadestore.com/freeupgrades.php.  Having back-up drivers is really smart but i only keep the mid/tweeter here as in all of my 30 plus years of using Thiels,  I have never had a problem with the lower drivers and up until the 2.7's only lost one mid in my 2.2's

looks like a good deal

saw a pair of 2.4's advertised on Audiomart.  looks legit

well all i can say is that Mr.  Tom Thiel,  you are really one smart man.  Since i have 3.7's  I doubt i will benefit from  your knowledge,  but it sure is good to have you here.  Thank you so much for all you are doing.

Regarding the outboard filter:  i have not tried it but i did write Rob about it around a year ago and this was his response: 

Hi Kent,

 

This is very interesting. It is my belief that the crossover has been tweaked by Jim Thiel, to maximize the frequency response of the coaxial driver. These additional parts would change the impedance, as well as the intended phase and time coherence of the speaker. This sounds like a fluke. I think this is just someone trying to benefit from the closing of THIEL Audio. I am guessing that for $95, the parts are of low quality, not to mention, the effects that it would have on the amp and speaker.

 

Rob Gillum