Thiel Owners

unsound,

Good point. When I went to Lexington, Thiel had the Krell FPB 700cx powering a pair of CS 7.2. Could Pass 250.8 amps be used? Sure. Will they have the dynamic headroom or slam the larger amp has? No way.

ronkent,

Glad to hear you are enjoying your VK-80. I’m seriouisly considering a VK-90 myself as BAT gear mates well with Thiel.

velocityofhue,

Great amp for your CS 2.4

Years ago I was in Nashville and stopped into a Thiel dealer. they had the CS 7.2 on display mated with Mac 1kw amps.

I sat and listened to the dealers arraged playlist. After a few tracks I asked if they would mind if I went to my vehicle to retrieve a few cd’s I had that I’d like to listen too. They said "sure"

I gave them the cd and they asked which track and I said just hit play as it doesnt matter. As it started to play I turned up the volume at a decent volume to fill the room. I saw a nervous look on saleman’s face as the red clipping light started to flash. Shortly after I ended the audition and excused myself and thanked them for the opportunity to listen.

Immediately after leaving the store I jumped on I-75 to Lexington where I heard the same CS7.2 with the Krell FPB 700cx amp. I thought I was listning to a different speaker it was so different. The authority the speakers possessed with a rock solid bottom end with no grain or grit on top was ear opening.

My point. If I would have left my first experience regarding Thiel speakers with that audition in Nashville I would have never bought Thiel speakers. When I heard what the right amp could do it was what the man himself, Jim Thiel, wanted his lesteners to hear.

Now I have a stable of Thiel speakers that I can switch out any given day because of Thiel selecting the right amp for their speakers.

Amps matter.

jafant,

I was only referencing amps in my experience how I came to become a Thiel owner. It wasnt intended to tout one amp over the other.

The point to walkway with is, high current amps perform much better with the Thiel’s. Thats how they were designed. What brand one chooses is on them.

When one thinks their amp seems to perform well there is no further thought that really goes into it. When they get the opportunity to hear a higher current amp then they will know what they have been missing. 

devinplombier

Think of it like the CS 7 to CS 7.2 conversion. Same cabinet but drivers upgraded and vital cover parts. In the CS5i the bass drivers were upgraded.

The CS5i is the way to go. With the right amps and room it would take a considerable amount os scratch to better them. After the future upgrades that will be offered that will be even harder to accomplish. 

They go lower than any sealed cabinet speaker on the market still I believe. I have two pair in walnut and rosewood and they hit like a hammer in the bass.

This is my personal favorite Thiel speaker. I'm tweaking the room for them to perform at an even higher level. 

Again monster amps to clear the throat from these beasts. The front baffle is incredible. Never have I seen one like this before. 

Happy Thanksgiving.

lars888888

The CS 2.4 is easier to drive by far and easier to set up and impliment into your room. They are the sweet spot of the Thiel line up.

The CS5i need more attentiion to set up and require big power to drive with authority. They are big speakers. The bass is effortless regardless of how low you go. 

I have both and do not remember the last time I listened to the CS2.4. 

lars888888

What finish are your CS 2.4 and what amps are you using?

What finish are the CS5i near you that you can purchase?

lars888888

The top end of the CS5i needs a little more sparkle but Tom Thiel is aware of this and has a solution. Now tis is in contrast to the CS 7.2. 

Comparing the CS5i to CS 2.4 you will not feel your missing/giving up anything even though the coaxial driver in 2.4 is a few generations after the CS5i tweeter. 

I switch out Thiels as I feel. I keep the CS2.4 for smaller rooms. The current room is larger for the CS6, CS7.2, CS5i. 

I've since switched out the CS5i with the CS7.2. I use differnt amps as the CS5i needs more power than the CS7.2.

I cannot stress this enough. I use Pass monos x600.5 for CS5i and Pass XA 200.5 for CS 7.2. 

ars888888

How tall are the ceilings?

What part of the country are you in as you can stop by to hear what set up I have.

Im in NC

lars888888

The CS5i take significant amps to power them and wake them up.I clip Pass Mono amps with the CS5i but not the CS7.2. 

The larger Thiel's need more effort to set up and the right room. I've heard people criticize Thiel's for sounding bright. This is the design of the speaker working against a poor room. 

They are incredibly engaging speakers when dialed in.

Your 2.4 are far more forgiving than their siblings. 

If you can get a Pure Class A amp with plenty of current you will be rewarded. i will see if i can upload a few photos when i get back from holiday.

devinplombier

What size listening room do you have? Ceilings? 

I'll share a story with you.

in 2001-2002 I went to Nashville to Nichals to audition the CS 7.2. They had them mated with McIntosh Killowatt amps. The salesman was conservative with the volume. I gave him a CD I brought and asked for the remote.

Once track was playing I hit the volume so it was playing at a decent volume around 92-95db. About 30 seconds in the red light started flashing on the McIntosh amps as they were clipping. 

I politely thanked the saleman for his time and left. From this dealer I went straight to Thiel in Lexington. I listened to the same Cs 7.2 but this time with Krell FPB 700 CX amp.It was a completely different sounding speaker. 

Lesson,  the amps are crucial with the big Thiels. 

My reason to push the speakers and get currentt through them is to know the amp is up to the task and if I have enough dynamic headroom to handle transient peaks. 

devinplombier

If you have the space and amps then the CS5i will be a great purchase. 

I only clipped the amp on certain tracks that was bass heavy. I was testing my room boundaries so I was playing at a higher db than normal but still not extreme. 

I was using the Pass XA 200.5 on CS 5i . With the 7.2 the XA 200.5 drives that speaker wherever they may want to go. Unfortunately your Classé monoblocks will not be sufficient. They will sound constricted like a horse blanket was draped over them. 

From my experience, the Big Krell FPB series is the way to go with the CS 5i. They come up now and then that have been recapped with service papers. These are the mono amps you want to grab. You will not hear what the CS5i are capable without amps with dynamic head room that push lots of current. I'm speaking from experience once you hear the bottom end of the CS5i there is no going back. It is effortless in the lower register. Not saying the mids/highs are not pleasant. I signal the bass out as there are not many speakers that can go this low and to have the definition the CS5i have. 

Tom told me he believed, after almost 40 years of being introduced to the marketplace, there is not a sealed speaker cabinet that goes lower than the CS5i.

I've been to a few audio sows these past few months, the last was Capitalfest, and there isnt a speaker under 60k Ive heard that I think could replace the CS 5i and I could happily live with. 

When Tom and Thiel Renaissance are underway, and the CS5i comes up for revisions that will be a great day. 

I have two pair. Authentic Brazilian Rosewood which the wood cost more than what the speakers sell for, and black walnut. 

The front baffles are incredible. Speaker over 100k do not have the quality and performance of the CS5i baffles. Maybe Tom can jump in and share his insight. 

Recently I had two well seasoned members come over for a listen on separate occasions. I played the tracks they wanted to hear first so they had their baseline.

Going through a selected playlist I complied of 6-7 tacks i watched them with a confused look on their faces, No words exchanged until the audition was over regarding what they heard. 

When the audition concluded the adjectives that were used by both listeners on different occasions were siimilar. Skipping the audiophile jargon both said it felt like they were in the crowd for a live performance. Thats a mic drop moment as anything else committed doesnt hold weight. 

devinplombier

Thats a good room for the CS 5i. 

I'm not sure what taps they used but the salesman seemed to be knowledgeable.

Jafant

Well, the man himself designed the room. When Tom and company come for an extensive audition I will tell more about the room as it is very unique in it's design. 

I will say this, at the listening chairs you only hear the wave from the drivers and no side wall/floor/ceiling reflections. No dampening in these areas as we wanted live acoustics and notb dead harmonics. 

The room is so well designed we did not even need a wool rug on Pz floors between the speakers and the listener. We tried and within 10 minutes we removed it. We were amazed that no rug was needed. 

I will get photos up soon. 

Any members in the NC area are welcome to stop by and hear the big Thiels. 

lars888888,

At 8 ft the CS 2.4 is your best choice. It is a steal on the used market and the upgrade path Thiel Renaissance has planned will make this model highly competitive in the 20-25k speaker realm. 

The two issues, already discussed,  that creates problems with the larger Thiels is power (amp) and room (integrating). If you get these right the CS5i will keep a smile on your face. Look at the You Tube CS5i on that site. Look how close they are to the walls and the ceiling. 

My setup is 10.9' tweeter to tweeter, 3.3' off back wall, 3.6' off side wall, and 6.5' to ceiling.

If you feel at any point you may get a larger listening room then I would jump on the CS 5i and hold on to them. As Tom eluded too, improving the 4 electronic crossovers and a handful of other improvements Tom has mentioned in this thread is well worth getting a pair.

On an aesthetic note I love the Mid Century modern design that the CS5i embodies more than any other Thiel speaker. When I have the CS 7.2 next to the CS 5i they look short and plump in comparison to the sleek and elegant CS 5i. World class craftsmanship.  

lars888888

The CS 2.4 upgrades will be transformative. 

Binding Post will be replaced with low mass design

New internal wiring which is an improvement over the stock,

Crossover upgrades with caps developed by Tom

Speaker base plinths

A few other significant improvements I am noi at liberty to mention yet. 

I have three pairs of CS 2.4 which I will leave one stock and one with an all out version for others to compare. 

I like big clean power with Thiels as I've mentioned. 

Two amps that I favor over all other amps I have used/heard with CS2.4 are Conrad Johnson 350S Premier and Krell MDA-300. Make sure the MDA's were recently serviced/recapped. They bettered the FPB series especially in the bottomed. 

timm1951

Krell FPB 300cx. Pleaase note I was referring to bottom end between the two. The FPB series are a great pairing with the Thiels especially the hard to drive Thiels. 

In a perfect world bi amp the Thiels with the MDA on bottom and the FPB for mids and highs. That is not possible of course unless speakers are modified.

For my CS5i Im on the lookout for a pair of FPB 750cmx or MDA-500. As I mentioned I clip my Pass XA200.5 with the CS 5i but mated with the CS 7.2 the XA 200.5 produces an engaging experience for the listener. 

I use the 200.5 for other Thiel speakers under the CS 7.2 with great results. Over kill for the CS 2.4 as you can get a XA 100.5 that will do the job or a Conrad Johnson Premier 350S. It's cheaper on the used market than the XA 100.5 and it is the amp to mate with the CS 2.4 from my experience. 

jafant,

That depends on the day of the week.  

When the time presents itself i will post link to site I have the big Thiels going throuigh a workout. 

I'll start with the CS 7.2 since they are in room with their new plinths. 

Next will be the CS5i as I still need to manufacture a plinth for them.

Followed by CS6 which I need to make a plinth for also. 

I'll get the CS 2.4 playing as well in "Jerry Seinfeld" silver. 

CS 2.7 in white are stunning. 

largeexpensiveboxes

For the larger Thiels I always preferred mono amps to keep the speaker cables as short as possible.  I use 36" speaker cables. 

I will say on paper there are many amps that can be used with the CS6. However, there are far fewer amps that drive them with authority. 

mchan888,

Congrats on obtaining a pair of CS 7.2 speakers. '

I'm right there with Tom that something is going on as the CS 7.2 has ample extension in the higher frequencies. 

Placement will be slightly different than your CS 3.6. 

This was a big factor with my CS 7.2 was ear placement to appropriate driver. It will be different than your 3.6. 

Another area to go over is amps and electronics. I have a few pairs of Thiels and everyone has a different amp I prefer. You dial them in with the right room (Thiels are very unforgiving with bad set uo/room) andyouwillbe grinning ear to ear. They are that good.

The amp reference was not intended to address the dip in highs. It was to merely to poin=t out you can extract more from the big Thiels with the right amps. Big clean Class A for sure. 

In my setup I have them about 10' apart,  3' from back wall and 4.5' from side walls. 

Maybe a cap/resister fail if driver is working.

prof,

I agree on your assessment of the CS 7.2. 

My viewpoint is the 3.7 has better drivers and the 7.2 impliments their drivers better. 

The upgrade path for the CS 7.2 is pretty exciting. 

Utilizing Tom's Bi-Flow wire technology with proprietary Golden caps will be ground breaking for sure. Eliminating the 100uf electrolytic caps with film will no doubt put more meat on the bone in lower Midrange. 

There are other upgrades as well,  which is really exciting since it's current performance level is as you say "memorable". 

I run large Class A amps, which really does the big Thiel justice mixed with a 300B pre. That combo is intoxicating. 

Currently I use cabling contradictory of moost Thiel users. I use some silver cabling. I have no brightness. I like music fast like live music and silver in my application achieves this. Bottom end is very tight with plenty of weight.

I'll be getting a pair of 3.7 so I can spend time with them. I try to rotate speakers around as I had the CS 5i in previously. Listening to a sealed speaker you hear the bass in real time and it is difficult to go back.

devinplombier

You are correct the CS5i is sealed and CS 7.2 passive radiator. When I mentined sealed speaker I was referrring to the CS5i.

As Tom mentioned all the upgrades will be implemented across Thiel product line. 

I've listened to the CS 5i and CS 7.2 the past 8 months or so. 

In new room they are both dialed in and its a roller coaster ride of emotion. 

The CS 5i takes massive power for her to clear her throat and really sing. You havn't heard a botton end until you hear the CS 5i. When it hits it hits hard, fast,and with authority. 

Going to the CS 7.2 it takes time to acclimate as it cannot match the slam of the CS5i. The CS 7.2 has better tonal balanced though.

With the deep dive Tom has taken with extensive upgrades, these two models will rival speakers north of 50k very easily. 

Regarding using  silver cables  I have found that soft annealed silver is what you need. It has a very distinct characteristic. Fast, clarity, heightened soundstage and a natural decay so notes dont linger longer than what is natural. 

Any members here in N. Carolina are welcome to come on by for a listen and compare copper vs silver.

When you see a man tapping his foot with a smile on his face you know you arrived at the right place. 

devinplombier

Indeed the CS5i are difficult to obtain. To find them in your region of the US and with shipping cartons becomes even more difficult. 

They have plywood crates so cannot understand why owners would not have the crates other than the space they take up and they threw them away. 

When buying always ask this question "What amps did you use with the CS 5i"?

If they were cared for the amps would be massive with high current. 

I will share a purchase I made on a rare pair of CS5i.

I was not looking for a pair of CS 5i as I had a pair, but came across this pair in dark walnut. I emailed the seller and told him I wish these speakers went to a good home and ended it there. The seller started to communicate with me and his fear was someone would hook up an inferior amp to these beauties and blow the drivers and ruin these speakers he had cherished. 

We eventually struck a deal on price and I was going to own another pair. 

This gentlemen had the odacity to not honor our price but instead lowered his price substantially and white van the speakers to my place for free.  He stayed in a hotel from the day’s driving and arrived early the next morning. 

When he arrived he had the odacity again to offer to "set them up properly for me" and get this for free.

Well scratch my back with a hacksaw as I thought I was in the midst of a Twilight Zone episode. 

We started talking and come to find out his grandfather was one of the original Thiel dealers in the country. Thiel dealers would come into your home and set up the speakers, "properly".

Not only did I get a pristine pair of CS 5i with a campfire type story, I also received the plywood shipping crates and all the original accessories. The footers came in a case that were foam fitted with the manual.

When you come across the right seller for CS 5i he will take point in the conversation and ask the questions interviewing you to see if you are a candidate for these speakers. They are that special. 

When Tom came by on his Thiel journey I shared with him the story of the newly acquired CS 5i. He saw the crates which broiught him to a time past and I could see he was having a moment as he was beaming with pride. These were the shipping containers so I did not dare show him the speakers. 

He shared the story that the gentleman that brought the speakers was the grandson of one of their original dealers. He said he knew him when he was a boy at his grandfathers shop. 

We did not listen to this pair of CS5i but instead a pair of ultra rare Brazilian Rosewood. When Tom saw them he was telling me how he acquired this rosewood through the jungle of Brazil/Boliva. He went on to say this was real Brazilian Rosewood acquired legally as it is almost impossible to lay your hands on any today. 

This is another story but they were also white van delivered to our place for free which was over 850 miles of traveling. 

My point. If you find a pair of CS 5i there should be a story behind them and the seller will be very accomadating to make sure they go too a good home. 

This to me is the Thiel Legacy. 

ig316b,

Amberwood is a beautiful wood. Congrats on the CS6 as they are great speakers. They are easier to set up than their older siblings and share some of the same characteristics. Not as difficult to drive as CS5i or CS 7.2. Great find. 

I have a pair in Zebrawood. 

Regarding the McCormack DNA 0.5 I’ve talked to Steve and he informed me this is the amp to buy used to send in for upgrades. He is a complete gentleman that knows his stuff and has very fair pricing. I would take the plunge if budget permits. 

Again with the upgrades that will be offered I’m confident the CS 6 will compete with speakers today in the 25-30K realm. 

I heard three versions of Tom’s SCS4 workhorse. Each revision had further upgrades. When we listened to the final revision, at the time, I was scrathing my head in disbelief at this transformation. It was like a veil removed and I was permitted to enter the holy of holies.

When Tom told me this can be done to all Thiel speakers it was difficult to grasp.

Going from stock SCS4 to what I heard can also be done on my beloved CS 5i, CS 7.2, CS 6, CS 2.7, CS 2.4SE I was moving my entire stack of chips to the pot and say "I’m all in". 

ig316b,

I aacpt your offer. What part of NC are you loctaed in? 

I sent my amps out to be serviced so they should be back in a few weeks. 

Having Steves amps on CS 7.2 I'm curious how the 7.2 will respond.

This will be a fun session. 

John,

Welcome. 

Though I will not offer a specific amp amp, as I have not done the amp/1.6 evaluation in my test. I will say what is consistent across the producr line is big power and Class A, if it permits. 

I have a preference for the various models I have and they are all different for each model. 

Tom told me this about Jim. He stated the amp to drive his speakers would cost more than his speakers. 

Not knowing your room size will limit suggestions you may receive.