Thiel Owners

@prof   i would really be interested in some recommendations for electronic music.   do not have much but my favorite album is underwater sunlight by Tangerine Dream.  thanks in advance

@wayneuncle    i am no expert on subs but have had really  good results with the REL s/5 SHO.  if you get a sub,  try to get the dealer to come and set it up

I have a friend/dealer (the only one in NC that sells Magico) and heard the A3 speakers recently. I think they retail for about 10K and not $223 but glad the 3.7's can hold their own.   Recently heard some bigger ones (about $28K) and they were very impressive. however i did not come home and get that sick feeling when i know my speakers suck by comparison.   In fact was very happy with the 3.7's.

hi arniespin,  i have the SHO s/5 and it is a killer sub.  the REL guy was here last week for a demo and said it was the sweet spot of their audio oriented subs.  i will check my settings later but have them much higher than you do. 

hi Arnie,   i suspect i need to bring my settings down but i would encourage you to raise yours.  i had some correspondence with John Hunter of REL and he gave me a rough idea of what he thought i should set the crossover at.  read below starting with my letter to him first

John Hunter (REL Acoustics)

Jan 10, 10:16 PM MST

Sounds as though you are in the right ballpark. Might have the crossover a tad high and the volume a tad low. To get the crossover just right, bring it down about 2 clicks-- if it is too low it will sound cold and hard immediately.

Increase the volume about 1-2 clicks and see if it doesn't get richer, fuller and more consistently fleshed out.

 

Kent

Jan 9, 12:28 PM MST

I have set the crossover at 12 o'clock (no idea what that actually translates to), and the volume around 11 o'clock.

Kent Tager

hi Arnie,   the person you got them from had the same problem i had with mine when i first got them.    i thought,  my goodness these are not near as good as my 2.7's. they were just as he described and i was not sure i would keep them.   now after about 6 weeks or so of very intensive time being played,  they sound like a whole nother speaker.  every time we are gone from the house,  i put the Reference Recordings burn in cd on repeat (cut 9) and let it rip.  sometimes i will leave a Michael Jackson cd on repeat as well as it is loud.  so anyway,  they are fantastic and cds that sounded okay through them 6 weeks ago, now sound like they have been remastered. 

hi Batman,   good to hear from you.   glad my  response got you into this group.   i have learned so much from reading all this and it is great to discuss our wonderful speakers with fellow Thiel lovers.   I use the BHK electronics from PS Audio and could not be happier.  They are a great product at a very fair price.  

hi Arnie,   i checked my settings on my REL  S5 and they are high compared to yours but i am always "fiddling" with them.  I think you might want to raise your crossover setting as that does seem low to me.  
i have mine at about 9:30 for the crossover and about 1:00 for the level.  I had set them originally for the 2.7's and probably need to adjust down a bit.  

not sure exactly  but i think i set mine around 45-50

there are some great tips on the Mapleshade web site.  Pierre thinks we sit too far away and too high and i have been using his suggestions for years with all my various Thiel speakers. 
I have the speakers  114"  apart (tweeter to tweeer),    90" from my  ear to the tweeter,  and i sit where my ears are  about 32"  off the floorhttp://www.mapleshadestore.com/freeupgrades.php

hi Prof,   how far apart do you have the speakers?  also i really find that the distance from my ears to the floor,   though subtle,  affects the SQ

hi Prof,   thank you so much. great reading.  i think the better our systems get,  the more tiny changes are audible.  why swap power cords if your speakers are Bose or something like that.  i use a Lafuma reclining chair as it is not thick and does not seem to mess with the sound too much like my leather couch does.  i like to recline and so i am laying back when listening which is why my ear is lower than most.   i find that when i go other homes, or to dealers,  that i end up sitting lower and closer than anyone else.  what device are you using that you mentioned moving around a bit.

hi Jafant,   thanks so much.   I am selling the 2.7's here and on audiomart just in case someone does not know that but wants a beautiful pair of them. The electronics are all upper end PS Audio which i swear by.   the rack is a beautiful piece i got from Mapleshade. 

to reiterate the point that Prof made,   i recently listened to a pair of 29K Magicos driven by very nice VTL tube amps.   was it great?  absolutely.  was it better? yes as it was more articulate and had a overall cleaner sound.  however, when i came home and played my PS Audio system with 3.7's,  i was totally happy.  the fact that a 10 year old design could hold its on with a current SOTA speaker at over twice the price says something about the genius of Jim Thiel and his design team. 

want to have some fun and give your system a real workout.   try this one.   i have used it for years to test speakers for a number of variables.   https://www.amazon.com/One-Second-Yello/dp/B000AC5LD4/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1528039...

I talked to Gary a few times by phone way back and he was a terrific guy.   I do suggest looking into the BHK amps and preamp as they work great with my 2.7's and now 3.7's

hi guys,   just wanted to let anyone interested in Thiel 2.7's know  that the set i have listed here has  had a price reduction.  Please check it out. 

thanks.   fascinating that there has been so little interest in them when they are so collectable and such a great speaker.  

TomThiel:  thanks so much.  the only reason i am selling them is because i just acquired a beautiful pair of maple 3.7's from Rob.  otherwise they would not be looking for a new home.  However i am certainly interested in updates and upgrades to the x.7 series.   Thank you for being here.  Your life story sounds like something out of a novel.  

thanks Dan and Prof for your comments.  it is funny that your brother may have liked the 2.7's better as my girlfriend likes them better too.   i think that the "sweeter" mid bass sound is what appeals to her as they have a bit more warmth in some ways than the 3.7's.   Hell if i cannot sell them,  i might have to sell the 3.7's as i cannot afford to keep both.

a PS Audio BHK/Thiel combo are also a great match

thank you so much Prof.  do you have a favorite album musically from them. 

would like some suggestions for a well recorded Rush cd. all i have heard and been bright and one dimensional.   this is a great album and i am not a Mac fan by any means but the music is exciting and the recording quality is great.   https://www.amazon.com/Tango-Night-Remastered-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B01N9R3TIM/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=...

hi thosb and welcome.   forgive the shameless sales pitch but you might want to consider updating your speakers as they have come along way since the 2.3's and earlier Thiels could be a bit tizzy.   i have owned four generations of  the 2 series since the mid 80's,  but am now selling my wonderful pair of 2.7's which are awesome.  why am i selling them?  Because i just acquired a pair of 3.7's.  otherwise they would be with me for years.   if that is out of your reach dollar wise,  you might want to consider the 2.4's as they are a nice step up from the 2.3's.   welcome to audioland where everyday is made better by playing music we love.

thanks to everyone for making this possibly the best thread on Audiogon.
so an update to my Thiel saga.  Had a

did not finish.  Had a fine gentlemen drive to my home from Ohio ( I am in NC) and purchase my Thiel 2.7's.   He had a pair of 1.6's but was ready to move up.  he listened for about an hour and was bowled over.  Of course the fact that all gear are the upper end electronics from PS Audio did not hurt.  So we packed them up and he is taking them back home.   I hope he enjoys as much as I did.  Now i have to live with the 3.7's.   poor me :(

thanks Arvin and Jafant.  he is so excited but he will need to update the rest of the gear as what he currently is using will not show off the 2.7's to anything like they can be.  he knows this and is looking forward to his audio journey. I have told him about this  thread.  the 3.7's are still breaking in but boy do they sound great.   I think it would be fun for the readers on this thread to each list five of their most favorite albums when it comes to both great music and great sound quality.  I will work on mine

all i can say is that my 2.7's, and now 3.7's,  are very happy with the PS Audio BHK stereo amp.  wish i could get the mono blocks but not in the budget.

hi Guys,   thanks for playing.   this is tough as i could have easily listed 50.  Half my collection is classical but i am going to focus on pop and rock since i play it more often when trying out new stuff.  Great list Arvin as i like all those, but mine are on silver discs as my trusty 37 year old Oracle/SME/Clearaudio does not get a lot of use.  Jafant:  which recording of DOFP as i never heard one sound great though i have always loved that album?
1.  James McMurtry-too long in the wasteland.  great songs and great recording.  the last cut is a total hoot and a real good test of a system's ability to place lots of vocals in space.
2.  Kim Ritchey-Rise.  she is such a great but quiet artist.
3. Yello-One Second:  totally fun.  the first cut alone makes it worth having.

4.  Mark Knopfler-Sailing to Philadelphia.   his duet with James Taylor is so great. 

5.  Speaking of JT.  Hourglass (preferably in SACD if you can find it).  cut 4 will bring down the pictures on the wall if you can reproduce what is going on there.

hi Jafant,  here is the link to the FM.   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9R3TIM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1                                               it is outstanding and i like all the songs except one (11 i think).  thanks for the tip on Rush.  do you have a favorite album as i do not have any at this moment.    another really great album is Mr. Lucky by John Lee Hooker.

thanks Jon.  i am familiar with a lot of that but not Martin Sexton and the Jennys.  most of my cds are really good sounding as i give them away if they are crappy, even if i like the music.  really like Deep Purple but their Burn cd was so badly done.  same with almost all the Rush stuff.  cannot listen to it. 

i am going to cheat and add my new reference cd and that is Tango in the Night by Fleetwood Mac.  make sure to get the remastered version. wowie zowie.  

Kim Richey is great and have a number of her cds.  if you like her check out Patty Larkin who has a number of really great cds.

here is the report from the man who got my 2.7's.   his system will need a lot of work but at least he now has speakers to let him hear the changes being made.

Good afternoon.

 

I got them unpacked and setup late yesterday afternoon. Listened for about an hour or so to the same tracks plus some others. The one difference I am hearing is more air, more open in the mids and upper registers. But the biggest difference is in the bottom end. It is much more solid, with better depth and better control (I made no changes to the sub, still crossed over at 50hz). I told you how much I didn't like the bass before on the live "Hotel California', too much, too boomy with the 1.6's. The 2.7's sound very good on that track, they have great presence and great control of that bottom end. No longer bothersome. Similar to how they sounded in your room.  

 

My wife doesn't have a critical ear, her only comment was that they are bigger, but not as a complaint, just a comment. ;-)  

 

I think I will start looking at amplifiers and subs for my next upgrades in the next year or so. Which model(s) of REL would you recommend based on my room size 14x20x8?

hi Jafant,  thanks for the suggestion.  does this look like the right version  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TK4U8S/sr=1-1/qid=1529887538/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&am...

thanks Jafant.

hi Prof,  after all is said and done,   and room size or traffic not being a consideration,   do you think the 2.7's out perform the 3.7's

hi Prof.  thank you so much.  I sold my  2.7's about 10 days ago and know they have a good home.  i never had a lot of time to really compare as the 3's were not good when i got them so i let them play all the time. they finally surpassed the 2's but not by much and i could have lived happily with either.  i think because i listen to classical about 70% of the time, the 3's were the better choice.  BTW:   you should be writing gear reviews as you are very articulate and really convey a real sense of what you are hearing.thanks again.

i just added my system to the list of virtual systems on Audiogon.  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7226

hi Guys,  just added a few more pics. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7226Jeff asked about room size and i was really lucky with this room.  When i bought my home back in 1997,  i was single and i wanted to make sure that i had a great space for my listening and for the gear.  This room has a cathedral ceiling which eliminates a lot of issues with standing waves.  the wall to the right of the listening position is so far away that it really is not a factor at all.   the only parallel surfaces are the walls  behind the speakers and the listening position and they are about 15' apart. So the room is a nice big size and great for orchestral sound as those big Thiel's create a giant wall of sound.

the big PS Audio 300 monoblock can almost do it. these things can drive anything.   i use the 250 stereo amp on my 3.7's and they do great.
Signature 300 Mono Amplifier Output Power120vac mains, 1kHz, 1% THD 8Ω300W minimum 4Ω600W minimum 2Ω 1000W

welcome thosb.  from my experience as a Thiel owner (since 1985 and 5 different pair),   i would not go from 2.3's to 2.4's as it probably is not worth the effort,  though i had the 2.4's and they are terrific.  wait and find a pair of 2.7's as that would be a big jump in sound quality.  

thank Tom for the input on the PS amps.  I use the stereo 250 and it is a killer amp in so many ways.   from all i have read both here and in the audio mags,   i think PS and Bryston are probably the top two "affordable" solid state units, while the new D'Agostino amps are supposed to be incredible but high dollar.  Not familiar with tube stuff as much,   but i know VTL is great gear and might be worth looking into. 

Okay after all this talk of amps, i need to put in a big plug here for the power regenerators from PS Audio. I started years ago with the PPP,  then to the P5, and now am using a P10 (which i will be selling next month in order to buy the new P15). these beasts make a huge difference in the sound quality of my system,  and many people just overlook how important they are. I would rather have an amp that retails for 5 grand,  and a P10 for 5 grand,  than an amp for 10 grand.  They are an important component and affect the sound as much as the room itself.   Just in case anyone is thinking i am a PS employee,  let me assure you I am not.  I have a great menswear store in Greensboro NC and (shameless plug here),   if anyone really likes nice menswear,  they need to check us out.   www.thehubltd.com

thanks Jafant.   except for the speakers and my old Oracle table,  everything else is PS.  great company,  great products,  great service and made in the USA.

hi Jon,   it is an amazing device and i would make it the number one piece in my system.  it allows all the devices that plug into it to run and sound better.  i think we audio guys typically spend too much attention on the gear and not enough on the room and the quality of the electricity that feeds it.

hi Dan,   all i can tell you is that basically it is like having your own power company.  i am not qualified to describe how it works,  but boy it does work. The difference is not subtle.   everything is just better.  It completely recreates the electricity that feeds your amp and other gear.   I am selling my P10 in order to step up to the P15.  I have learned that when Paul McGowan says something is a big improvement,  then it is. 

As for my shirts,  they are great.  best we have ever carried.  

hi Dan,  if you are serious about the P10 please let me know.  i will not be selling it until next month when i receive the P15 as it is on back order.  they are serious devices and are not just conditioners.  for those who are interested, please watch some of the videos on the PS site explaining why and how they work.   if we all listened to music at 2am we probably would not need them as much as that is when the power lines are the cleanest.  but since i have had one,   especially the P10,  i have not had to worry about it.   there is no snake oil with any PS products. 

thosb,  i certainly recommend the newer DAC from PS,  but think that we spend too much time worrying about the gear.  as i posted earlier,   efforts to fix the room and putting in a PS power re-generator will fix a lot of issues.

a friend of mine who has 3.7's just sent me this.

Hooked up the Goertz speaker cable tonight. First impressions- more detail in the bass, more natural mids, images more separated. They are nowhere close to being broken in and I already prefer them to the Acoustic Zen Sartori. Using Zoeble networks with them. I will let you know how they progress.

he is using these though not sure of termination  https://www.thecableco.com/mi-3-divinity-speaker-cable-pair.html

he ordered them with silver

Dan,  you might want to ask them about the "zoble" networks as my friend is running 13' and is using this little add on from them.