I see a lot of threads related to managing and tweaking the ac powerout end of electronic systems. Much has been said about dedicated wiring, termination and even the right kind of extension cords to use. I work for an electric utility; and that's the extent of my credibilty here. The majority of you will no doubt be far more erudite wrt music hardware. Just a thought, though: domestic ac distribution goes thus: power station-step up-city-step down-subdivision-final step down. As far as the utility is concerned, you and all your neigbours are collectively the load for the step down tranformer. Any inductance/capacitance created by your neigbour running motors/tubelights, etc is felt by the lot of you. Additionally, the voltage frequency will almost always move around a tolerance from 50hz as the whole country turns on the air, off the lights - changes all the time as peaker plants ramp up etc. Nothing can change that- the frequency of the grid supplying your city is the frequency in the mains at your house. So what's my point? Well only that how much difference can the last 10 feet of cabling, etc make when the other hundreds of miles are outside of your control? And more importantly, frequency is one of the most imp parameters for measuring electricity quality (your expensive hand-coiled toroids are entirely subject to the f in the primaries) and nothing other than running an f generator can shield you from that. Methinks all the improvements you see from ac cord treatments are pyschosomatic. But that's cool.
Brulee REf the ps power plants. If they benefit from improved ac power cords then I would suggest the stock cord impedes the flow of current. It would be interesting to hard wire from the wall direct to the unit with a dedicated circuit to avoid any weak links. Have you by chance tried this. Sorry if I repeated this message but it did not transmit first time. Steve
Good lead Mike, i've checked out Equitech website. Your ET2R-Q is a prof. rack mount 2kVA black beauty! I will probably buy their balanced isolating toroidal transformer loose and put in myself the rest of the safeguarding and definitely a IEC950 EMC/RFI filter for the CDP(the "noisy" one). Read also that NEC committee had voted overwhelmingly for the inclusion in the next NEC publication of rules & regulation for wiring & earthing methods for the video/audio & "sensitive" electronic equipment. I interpret this as an implied official recognition of the Balanced power solution to mains common mode noise inherent in unbalanced mains supply. Just a word of caution though to all aspiring DIY'er, please get assistance from a good qualified electrical worker if you're not one yourself, and understand the NEC regulation fully before any attempt to proceed!! I'd do the same in my country with the correct electrical authority. Even better, buy it from the prof. equipment manufacturer for best assurance. Happy listening.
Elizabeth - while current capability is an issue, one of the reasons why a dedicated feed works is that there are less connections on the line to pick up noise, and so one of the benefits of using the air conditioner's outlet is that it is the only outlet on that feed line. I am not implying you did not realise that - just clarifying.
Power conditioners , better cables & Power cords do make a difference... At the very least they lower the background noice, which may be the reason for a lot of the other noticed improvements. Surge protection is not a bid bonus too! I have a monster hts 3500 , the power amp goes directly in the wall! Audioquest quietlines are a nice item also!
I challenge the fact that you can hear the difference in power cords. The job of a power chord is to supply the transformer inside your piece of gear with alternate current of sufficient quantity to allow your device to operate properly. Inside your component, the power supply converts the alternating current to direct current. The direct current is then sent to power your circuitry. The power supply is where the filtering of your power occurs. Manufacturers use large capacitors and/or voltage regulators in the power supply to filter any residual AC or noise. The power supply design of your equipment is much more critical than an expensive power cord. The cleaner you make the direct current voltage feeding the audio circuits in your equipment the better your equipment will perform. The only exception to this is if the power cord is not of sufficient gage to supply the current necessary for your piece of gear to operate or if the power cord does not provide a good enough ground path to avoid voltage drops which causes system noise due to ground loops, assuming your AC wall outlet is grounded properly.
When I first heard of the power cord controversy, I was likewise skeptical as you are. Based on your assumptions, what differences could there be? The problem lies with your assumptions: 1. The power supply is where filtering of your power occurs. How does an amplifier know what to amplify? The answer is that it doesn't. It will attempt to amplify all signals presented to it. That includes an entire spectrum of radio frequency signals below and above it's normal operating range. Do you follow AudioAsylum? If not, perhaps you should. There is significant material on this issue. One "inmate" who like myself has Acoustat electrostatic speakers complained that something was causing his amplifier to shut down. He speculated that there was a malfunction within the high voltage Acoustat transformers. He later discovered that the villain was his old Monster speaker cable which had oxidized. It was now conducting high frequency hash which the amplifier doggedly attempted to amplify and overheated in the process. After hearing this, I examined the internal wiring of my transformers. Though my main speaker cable is new DH Labs silver wire, the Acoustat transformer has 15" of Monster cable internally. I discovered the same horribly oxidized wire. Once I replaced it, I was amazed at the difference in signal clarity. From Sade to Saint Saens and Madonna to Mozart, I am how hearing more inner detail. Similarly, a power cord can be quite effective at radiating RF energy. Better cords posess shielding that minimize this effect. 2. Manufacturers always install cords of sufficient gauge. Not. All wire loses signal to an extent. All components with anything less than 14 gauge cord is sacrificing power transfer. I will refer you to this more studious explanation: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/13538.html Finally, one must consider one's point of reference. A casual listener will likely never hear any differences. Or someone who has a typical $2000 mid-fi system. The differences are readily heard by those who listen to music more regularly and those who have access to better equipment. Does your frame of reference include hearing what a $200,000 system can sound like on your music? It is both enlightening and frustrating at the same time. There is so much detail on discs most folks will never experience. Though my system costs something less than 10% of that amount, both speaker and power cords do make a difference. BTW, I don't (yet) have any $500 designer cords in my system. I have replaced four with industrial grade Belden 14 gauge shielded cable with quality Leviton plugs. Cost? About $15 each. I have dedicated power outlets for my system. Additionally, I use a Monster Cable HTS-1000 power conditioner on my front end components. The results are a cleaner, quieter background allowing more detail to be revealed and more powerful dynamics. Try it. You'll like it.
You bring up some good points that I did not consider but I am still the skeptic. I whole heartedly agree that the larger the power cable you use, the better off you are! It is safe to say at our relatively low voltages of 110 vac or 220 vac the larger the conductor the less opposition to current flow or resistance (at much higher potentials you deal with the skin effect where current flows on the outside of the conductor only). If we look at Ohm's law, a current flowing through resistance will cause a voltage drop. The amount of voltage dropped is dependant on the electrical resistance (or impedance with alternating current) and the current flow. Any drop of voltage across the power cord is detremental to system performance and frankly dangerous due to heat generated in the power cord itself (remember Power(heat)= V (voltage drop in the cord)x I (the current flowing). The second point I agree with you is on EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference). There are 2 types of EMI we must deal with: Radiated and Induced. The sources of these type of interferences are common to our everyday life from vacuum cleaners to our television sets. Unfortunately the best power cord in the world will not help with induced EMI as the interference is induced on the power source itself. This is the case for a dedicated outlet for yours audio system. There are caveats with this also. If one chooses to use a dedicated outlet the ground at the outlet is the most important consideration. I propose that the ground wire that is enclosed in the piece of romex feeding your outlet may not suffient depending on how far the outlet is from your breaker panel (remember what I mentioned about wire size and resistance). This can be checked by by measureing the neutral to ground voltage under load at your outlet. It should be almost zero volts. If it is not there is a voltage drop and this could be a cause of noise in you system. Radiated EMI is quite another story though. This (in my opinion) has more to do with good design in your component than a very good power cord. Shielding, ground planes on circuit cards etc. have more effect on this than the power cord. The only rule of thumb here is to keep everything as short as possible. If the EMI is higher in frequency, shorter leads make a poor antenna to pick up this. Remember that if the interference is 1 MHz or less a sufficient antenna would have to be over 100 feet long. A power conditioner may help with some of these problems but I submit as an electrical engineer that fancy power cords and power conditioners are not a good substitute for good electrical design and a little thought. Thanks for the reply. Audio sometimes becomes an emotional issue, and it is my pleasure to correspond with someone who is willing to talk about some of the scientific principles behind these issues.
Gmkowal - let us hope audio is an emotional issue for all of us. You may be right that we should not fix AC noise problems with better power cords, but only buy equipment that deals with these problems (more effectively) internally. But if having bought the best sounding component I can reasonably afford, and then I find that $400 on a power cord significantly improves the sound - what am I to do? Refuse to buy the power cord on the basis that I am pissed with the component designer for not designing his product competently? That seems to be self-defeating. Complain to the component's manufacturer? Somehow I don't think they would listen. Perhaps you believe I am deluded about what I hear with power cords? But I have many years of experience with this hobby, and so if I am deluded about power cords then I must be deluded about most other choices I have made in audio, since I apply the same listening tests to those other decisions too. Since the delusion has led to countless hours of joy through bringing me closer to the music, I will take my delusion any day over your apparent blind faith that your theory explains everything. It is one thing to wonder about the reason why people report hearing a difference, and another to state that there cannot be a difference because your belief in some theories is inconsistent with it. I am a scientist too, but more freely acknowledge that scientific theories are blunt instruments.
Gentlemen, I do not want to you to think that I think ill of anyone who would purchase that $400 power cord. I merely point these facts out to alert those who are considering the purchase of such an item as to the cause and effect some of the problems for which one may consider purchasing such an item. I merely wish to point out that before you spend your $400 please make sure that that $400 will remedy the problem. Some of the problems I have pointed out, can not not be solved by a power cord at any price. If it makes you happy to spend $400 on a power cord, God bless you. But would'nt it be sad, if one spent the money on the $400 power cord and the new power did nothing to solve the problem because it was a grounding or EMI problem. My point is simply this: try understand what you are trying to remedy and why. It could save alot of time and money and maybe buy you a better designed amplifier.
I think I see your point Gmkowal, that theory can help us in focussing on a remedy for the most appropriate source of a problem. But I have not come across any universal theory that works repeatedly in distinguishing between the many options we audiophiles must choose between. Without a reliable universal theory, then any individual theory tends to tell only part of the story. For example, I can postulate a theory that explains why using a sorbothane footer ought to be beneficial. But I can use another theory to postulate that using a cone ought to be beneficial too. Yet I know of no theory that tells me that a cone will be better than a sorbothane footer, that cannot be countered by a theory that tells the reverse story. Only listening removes the ambiguity, or reveals the nature of the trade-off. From listening I tend to develop my own theories of course - like, that if there are two compliant materials in a system the result is awful - therefore use only one, and use rigid coupling for any other support interfaces. Of course I can use conventional theory to explain that this is due to correlation effects, but only my ears can tell me whether the issue is relevant and significant. My ears tell me that the choice of power cord is very relevant and very beneficial - I have said it before, on a par with changing speaker cables.
Redkiwi, thank you for your post. I quite agree that the only true test of whether something has improved your system or not, is your EARS. I have also have done some things with my system that some may consider excessive. I am lucky enough to have the room that I listen in, fairly close to my electric meter and circuit breaker box. I installed a dedicated outlet for my system and ran a pair of #10 wires to my breaker box (hot and neutral only) and a single, very large piece of wire braid directly to the ground rod that sits next to my electric meter. I did not want to depend on the ground system in my house. I float each piece in my system and tie all of the chassis grounds to the ground braid at a single point. I bought some Litz wire on Ebay and made my own power cord to float the equipment. While I really can't say I have improved the quality of sound in my system, I can tell you that I can't hear the ham radio operator next door talking through my system anymore. I was fortunate enough to get my grubby hands on some high quality #6 wire at work and use it between my Audio Research Classic 60 and Theil CS 3.6's, but I did purchase some MIT interconnects to go between my Oracle and preamp (Yeah, I am still a record fan). It all sounds great to me and I am happy :-)
It seems like Snobgoblin chickened-out after October sometime. So we've all been talking to ourselves. I guess he was just trolling and not really interested in the music.
What's this about 'chickening out'? Are we jousting? I only let this thread die because a> everyone's point has been made (and taken) and b> I lost interest because it devolved into general dialogues. In any case I guess issues like these are moot as they are experential and objectivity has no place (or serves any purpose other than to make people rant at each other and generally piss everyone off) here. I have no problem with that. I cant hear the difference though. But would love to try one of them PS Audio boxes on my system :-) Raghu
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