@spkroket75
A direct comparison would be ideal. I imagine we will get some of those in time, once there are a few SEs out in the wild and if a reviewer decides to do the direct comparison.
As you know, in this hobby, the comparison is generally by memory. The more recent the better. So it comes down to whether you trust that particular poster's memory and consistency.
My expectation is for a slight evolution across the parameters we tend to focus on. I'll be very satisfied if Eric's SEs deliver that. |
Do you guys think getting them off the floor will help in the bass?
I do. And some additional run in time will help. |
@evolvist Congratulations!!! I know you have been very patient.
They sound better than any other pair of speaker I've had in there.
That's impressive. Any additional details? |
@kdude66 It appears you are lost in the thralls of the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170. Or is it caught between a Fest of First Watts, 2A3s, etc. ..... please share. |
@kdude66 Congratulations. Looking forward to your assessment. |
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For those of you who are interested in the TDAI and it's 'sound,' take a look at Exogal and their Comet Plus - Ion combo. |
@charles1dad
Charles, you are basing your predictions on a Null Set. Therefore, despite the praise from Bill and soon Kenny, the comparative doesn't apply.
These are two products that don't play on the same field...and I'm not qualifying either field as better or worse. And, PLEASE NOTE, I'm not saying they play in different leagues. : )
All we know is that a few members are impressed enough with the TDAI 2170 to give it prominence in their systems.
The only one who has done the comparison is @evolvist
I'm curious about his findings, especially since these two products are unlikely to be compared in one's system.
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@lmswjm
As @klh007 mentioned in his post, I do own the Exogal Comet-Plus and Ion. It’s been out of system for some time now and I should bring it back in to get another read on it, especially with all of the other improvements upstream and downstream from this combination.
I recently, for a second time, seriously considered the TDAI 2170 due to it’s flexibility but I ended up deciding that a Pre/Pro was a better choice since I really wanted to build a full on HT system. I then considered the Lyngdorf MP-50 as an option but I wasn’t ready to spend that kind of money on a newly released product that was still buggy, at the time. Then the DIs came along and I abandoned HT to concentrate on 2Ch.
I had originally considered the TDAI 2170 after it was released. It is an extremely capable product and really deserves more press and exposure in the US market.
My reason for bringing Exogal up, a few posts ago, is because of their similarities: their "Very CLEAN" sound; a different and hard to explain (to my ears) "Black" / "no noise" background; and a lack of harshness. My point being that if one is considering Lyngdorf’s TDAI they should also be open to the Exogal Comet Plus - Ion combo.
There are a number of reviews on the Exogal Comet Plus, fewer on the Comet - Ion combo.
I’d start with Doug Schroeder’s reviews over at Dagogo since he continues to use Exogal in his system and for his reviews since.
For me, the TDAI is the better looking component and it offers more flexibility, albeit at a slightly higher street price.
Based on posts here at Audiogon, the Comet - Ion responds to cabling and isolation. Reach out to those posting in those threads for more information.
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+1 @aniwolfe Agreed. Hopefully @evolvist will. |
@aolprodj That's great! Please share more.... |
@aolprodj Thank you for the end game summation statement! Perfect!
Thank you also for posting the photos of the Double Impact SEs at Ezra’s home. They look just a bit wider than the DIs; Are they? Any other differences that you picked up on?
@audioarchon Mike, do you have specs to share? Thanks. |
@audioarchon Thanks, Mike. The additional information will be valuable and helpful. |
@teajay Terry, really appreciate the immediate on-the-front reporting.
As you know, I ordered the DIs the day your review of them was posted on hometheaterreview.com without any other knowledge of / about them.
Just over a month ago you advised me on which of Eric's speakers would be the best fit for my needs. I choose the SEs based on those discussions. It appears your early read on the SEs has been substantiated, perhaps even more so than you predicted.
I put the order in for the SEs the same day. I know I don't have these speakers yet, but I would like to acknowledge you. I'm grateful for your guidance. Thank you.
Now that the SEs - I actually like the SI you used because I thought it sounded about right: Special Impacts! - are live, I'm hopeful that Eric can deliver mine as promised. I was number 3 in the queue a month ago, with Ezra's SEs being No. 1 and Eric estimated about a month.
I'm Really Excited. Can't wait for the pair of Mercedes Diamantsilber Metallic to get their finishing touches, hopefully once Eric is back and settled from a successful and productive RMAF. The photos @aolprodj shared of the SEs in the metallic black finish look very nice.
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@hfaddict Welcome to the thread and thanks for your wonderful post.
I’m not sure what your personal definition and expectations around bass quality etc "are" so this may or may not work for you: -
- Isolate the speakers...something above and beyond just using the spikes. I use Herbie’s Footers. There are a number of other options and, if interested, I can list more.
- Raise your speakers. If they are on the stock spikes, try inserting a platform / shelf / something diy; then position with the spikes-in to see if you get better results. This is an easy test. If they do you can look at something more specific acoustically and aesthetically.
Good luck. |
@mac48025 Tom, that's wonderful news....Congratulations on your decision to get a pair of the SEs!!! You are building a very sweet system.
Looking forward to comparing notes. |
Conducting a 4 cable (USB) shoot-out / comparison.
Advice on how to go about this?
Thanks. |
@mac48025 Tom, I went with Mercedes Diamond Silver Metallic (the silver has a subtle light blue hue). More importantly, my wife approved the selection.
Yes, I do have testing tracks. If anyone has any additional suggestions, please share.
The USB cables are:
- Wireworld 7 Platinum Starlight
- Purist Audio Design Ultimate
- Audience Au24 SE
- Cardas High Speed Clear
I've done two days with the Wireworld, and wrapping up the second day with the Purist.
Synergy with components is so important and since I have a new DAC on order and a possible server/renderer option...deciding on which one will be the best fit is obviously tricky (perhaps a crapshoot at this time).
This is the first round of comparisons. I'll choose my top choice and then bring in another 4.
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@jcarcopo Thanks! That's what I understood from the first posts by you and Kenny...just wanted to be sure. And your position is understandable.
As @vitop mentions above, this is a good discussion to have.
I was under the impression that Eric was using Peerless when I ordered, but I did not have confirmation on that. It will be good to hear more from Eric and from Mike Kay once the specs are finalized. |
@jcarcopo and @kdude66
What are your specific concerns based on your takes of the driver selection for the SEs? Thanks.
Do others share the same concerns? |
@aniwolfe Which is why Tom's 'Freudian slip'.... (note: "some") : )
Then I can do like you and just sit back and enjoy music for many years to some
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Brief RMAF coverage of the Tekton rooms by Patrick Dillon of AudioMatters... "
Tekton Design There's been enormous buzz on various forums about Tekton Design's speakers. Chief Eric Alexander was on hand in one room to demo a pair of floorstanders ($3k) with Parasound amps, while the Parasound room down the hall used a pair of his Double Impact Monitors in their system. Visually, these are nothing special but the multi-tweeter design does catch the eye. My conversation with Eric was interesting. He is a man on a mission who has a distinct view that most speakers are following the wrong design principles. He aims to develop products which respond more like the natural wavelaunch of real instruments in terms of moving mass and speed. I admire his passion and wish him well. Quick take: the floorstanders looked as if they would power out the bass with their dual large woofers, but were remarkably light in that regard. Might have been something to do with the recordings chosen (Eric Clapton live at San Diego mostly when I was there on two occasions). There's a sort of planar quality to the sound that is deceptive given the box nature of the design. The monitors delivered a Michael Hedges track on a Marantz table through Parasound amplification with tremendous body and detail, and provide stiff opposition to many other monitors at the $2k price point. I could easily see a great music system being build around them. Indeed, that Parasound room with the Marantz TT15-s1 ($1495, Clearaudio MM cartridge included) into a Halo JC 3 Jr phono ($1495, to be released later this year) and Halo Integrated ($2595), all connected up with the more affordable end of Straight Wire cable ($670 for the lot used) was one such rig. Great sound all round for less than $10k the lot." http://audiomatters.blogspot.com/2017/10/rmaf-2017-part-ii.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium... |
@vitop I auditioned the GE T Ref. Dealer setup and room was shabby.
BUT...these are very good speakers. Given how well the T Ones are thought of and reviewed, the T Ref is much better.
I would point someone who loves and prioritizes bass towards them without hesitation, yet they remain delicate and refined through the high frequencies. I was worried about size but they are a narrow speaker.
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@vitop Great that you have a few dealers where you can listen to the GE Refs. What’s nice about that is you’ll get to hear them in different rooms with different gear / systems.
I first auditioned the 2+ and the Ones. There really was a major difference between the 2+ (and I understand the + is an improvement over the 2s) and the Ones.
I then auditioned the Ones and the Ref more recently. Again, my biggest take away (given the so so system, and subpar setup and room - btw, exactly the same in both demos other than the change up of speaker) was that there was a significant step up from the Ones to the Ref, just like there was from the 2+ to the Ones. Despite the bad room and setup, etc. the differences in each speaker were very evident...which is really what I was looking to determine.
For me, my base line speaker with respect to GE would be the Ones. I obviously did not move forward with them. To my ears and preferences the Reference plays at a level where I would be open to bringing them into my home for a final audition.
As for which sound/performance you will prefer and be drawn to, only you can find out and answer. There is a ’house’ sound to the GE line due to the similar design, components and shared dna; as there probably is with Tekton (the DIs are the only Tektons I have heard, so I cannot say for sure).
It will be very interesting to learn your take on the GE Reference and your comparison to the Double Impacts. |
Absolutely. I'd also add the two ww's. Toga party at teajay's, anyone? : )
One barn has been lit. So there is a word of caution amidst the joking. |
@mac48025 Congratulations on achieving your own musical nirvana and bliss. Looking forward to learning your detailed impressions once you have a few weeks with Aric's amp in your system.
@aolprodj Given Ezra's system, how would you translate (extrapolate) the performance of the SEs to more pedestrian ones? Your thoughts on optimizing performance from these speakers with specific components? Thanks. |
@teajay Open the gates, and Rome will fall. : ) |
@baranyi Thanks so much for sharing your impressions from the listening session at Ezra's home.
Does @teajay concur with your take on the 2A3 pairing with the Ulfs? It was my understanding that he feels the LTA Triode pairing is 'perfection' for his needs and preferences.
What would your ideal pairing be for the SEs (preamp and amp)?
Thanks. |
@manati I enjoyed reading your write-up on your new DIs. Thanks for sharing your system and your experience. Great remark regarding "The law of maximizing return" |
@baranyi and @teajay Thanks for the additional information and commentary. Very helpful!
Any thoughts regarding a parallel 2A3 (paired with the SE)? I believe Triode offers one and perhaps Aric is open to building one? |
Charles,
Love and respect you brother... and you know I'll be calling you for advice and guidance on any number of things audio....
BUT, I'll say, in this case, that we have different definitions and experiences of what 'open' is.
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I will come to the defense of @shadorne 's post for a number of reasons most of which I sincerely believe (my opinion) are for the benefit of this thread and those who own Tekton speakers, and not the post per se.
He clearly makes the comparison of high value vs absolute performance, which is evident in the first post. I think all of us can agree on this, whether a car analogy is used or not.
It is fair of us to ask him to elaborate and for those so inclined, who expect more, to substantiate. He did. His position is a general one. Nothing wrong with that. Many active here have made similar general statements about any number of topics / components / etc. and some even based on a lack of first hand or in-depth experience (but on experience of the field). These don't get challenged simply because they have been supportive.
His post generated a natural and understandable reflex --- I have no problem with that and I do understand it and why it happens --- but I do wonder how we ultimately benefit when those following (which is far, far greater than those posting) hesitate from participating when it is clear what the natural reaction to posts that question these speakers, or issues around it, will elicit?
It's also obvious that some who were previously active here and collaborated to the greater good of this thread are conspicuously absent of late.
Our behaviour, and I include all posting here, drives the evolution of this thread.
I personally would like to learn from those who do not see or hear things the way I do. The only way I see this being possible is to be open and not as reactive as all of us have at times been, myself included.
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David my friend, what am I missing here?
That our general reaction, the number of reactions to the post, some of the tone used, the 'defensiveness' of some of the posts, some may even say the 'aggressiveness' of some of the responses.... ....don't encourage participation or openness, especially when they are contrary to or in opposition of.... ....irrespective of what he said or wanted to communicate or imply. As I mentioned in my former post, this is less about the post itself, but the consequences and impact of our choices in response to it. |
@vitop
JMO, and sorry if I have offended.
Not at all. In fact your post was both beautifully written and thoughtful. |
@charles1dad
I'm happy the relationship remains brotherly. : )
It ultimately comes down to one's interpretation. I knew I'd be in the minority, and that's ok by me.
You and others, that have more history here and a much deeper and wider exchange between members both in public on the forum, or privately through more personal means, can perhaps 'read' more into one's posts and what may or may not be implied.
We've all been on that spectrum somewhere between belief and disbelief with respect to the Double Impacts. I'm fine with someone essentially stating that they don't believe. Sometimes that disbelief manifests as questioning credibility. Happens all the time. And there will be those that never believe. I'm good with that too.
Rather than some of the responses that poured forth, I would much rather see those like Ezra or others who have high end systems come forward with their thoughts and impressions and reasons for why they moved forward with a DI or an SE or an Ulfberth. Credibility is built, usually very slowly...and I hope that those that can -- work on shedding more light to illuminate the path and make it easier to travel.
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@rmasoni has personally recommended it on the tube amp thread I asked for input on:
"Call David Berning directly and ask him to tell you about his 300B or 6B4G push-pull amp that he builds on request. It is spectacular. His ZOTL circuitry, fully balanced, Class A. He included 47 step Goldpoint attenuator when he built mine - so it can be used as an "integrated", albeit with a single input (either RCA or XLR). Will cost you around $7K, but there is nothing like it - check out Harley's double down on the Flagship 211/845. You get the same sound in a smaller package."
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@aricaudio Aric, Great to know that you are open to a parallel 2A3 build and other options such as the 211.
As you know, I'm working on getting the digital front end finalized. Once the SEs are in system and I have a good feel for them, a path forward will be much clearer.
I'm still leaning towards more power, i.e. going with 120s/150s...but now that @branayi and @teajay both endorse the 2A3 paired to the SE after their auditions of the SEs...I can put the 2A3 option back on the table.
I'll reach out via email, after the SEs have been in system for a week or so. |
@mac48025 Thanks. It’s good to have your current take on Aric’s amp using the KT88s and then how the 150s work for you in the future.
I’m a huge fan of the 2A3 but was worried about the SE’s efficiency and took that option off the table. It’s nice to have it back in the mix.
I started a thread for tubed amp recommendations at a higher power output level than the 2A3 and received a number of great suggestions and options to consider.
The Pass XP-20 - XA-30.8 combination within my system is sublime. I should be asking Aric if he can build a box to check my sanity. : )
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@mikeg Both sound like good options. I'm not familiar with the Tidal amps. Do they still make them? I loved the Ayon Spirit II integrated I had ages ago.
In case this helps influence your choice, my wife is partial to Porsche. She has much better taste than me.
I'd be perfectly happy with a Golf and would be ecstatic to drive and own a GTI or R.
My daily ride is a work bike for commuting and transport and groceries etc. So my recommendation is for a Surly Big Dummy. Hope the innuendo (no disparagement intended) is appreciated. |
@teajay @tektondesign
Terry, thanks for your wonderful review of the Tekton Design Ulfberths.
I'm always moved by your writing style and skills. Amazing!
Eric, Congratulations to you and your team! |
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@teajay I want to share some information on my experience with amplifiers driving them, along with the DI/DI SE's............... Very helpful post. Thanks for the highlighting the nuanced differences between the preamp and amp combinations with for the Double Impacts, the DI-SEs, and Ulfberths; your preferences and findings; and also the cost of tubes selected. |
@mac48025 Tom, will you be keeping the KT88? Why not the 2A3? |
@mac48025 Tom, no disrespect of Aric’s amps meant by this question...but why not the Frankenstein? Or is it too close to Halloween for your comfort? |
@mac48025 Tom, thanks for your response to my question. Sounds like you are well on your way to a wonderful musical end-point. I'm surprised by the quick change of direction from the Aric's KT88 amp since I believe you are very deliberate in your choices, which is what led to my questions. |
@corelli Great hearing from you as well. Hope you and your family are healthy, safe and in good spirits. Things are not looking good in Michigan also. Despite everything, all is good here. Orleans and Jefferson Parish are both reaching their peaks (so we hope)... fingers crossed on our region moving past that and forward soon.
Had Tom planned on the weekend prior, he would have made it. Unfortunate timing on his trip to New Orleans. It would have been great meeting him in person, enjoying an evening of music, and getting his take on the state of the system.
My system has come along really, really well, though at significant expense. : )
I miss the camaraderie of this thread!!! |
@avanti1960
For those of you that own these speakers, how is the quality of the sound in terms of cleanliness? Freedom from distortion, dirt, noise, grit, ringing, harshness, etc?
Clean. Free (though not in a perfect absolute sense) of the issues you ask about in the second question. |
@jcarcopo
Like @mikeg I've had a positive experience with USA Tube Audio.
I also loved my Ayon integrated and did not have any reliability issues.
I approached them a few months ago regarding a Mastersound preamp and an integrated amp. They did not talk me over to Ayon. : )
All the best with your decision.
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@jcarcapo
I think the Ayon will also be utterly neutral, possibly flawlessly so
I doubt, if you are being literal, the above.... but I do believe you will love it's sound.... It's a heck of a nice problem to be dealing with. : ) |
@333jeffery Nice on the Rockna Wavedream
Keep us posted on what you find? Are you using it's pre functionality? |
