Tekton Double Impacts
porscheracer, I beat he probably will send you replacement woofers and they will need some time on them to loosen up and sound there best. Directly comparing amps can be tough and my best advice is to play only a couple of songs that you know really well in the comparison.It may take multiple plays with one amp to lock that sound into your memory before you make the switch and be sure to use the exact same volume level because different levels can be deceiving. I just listen for what sounds the best to my ears and since music to me is all about emotion I pick the amp that can envoke the most response.I also close my eyes when doing serious comparisons and don't want any interruptions or distractions. Just take your time you will figure it out. Best of luck to you, Kenny. |
Hopefully in a little time Eric will resolve these issues. I do agree with what has already been said here and It would be much better business practices to under promise and over deliver. With all this talk about doing amp comparisons, I have a shootout happening today between 2 Dht sets the first one up is My Yamamoto A09s which has some newly acquired Eml xls 300b tubes and my latest purchase from Audiogon which is the Consonance cyber 30 which is a 2a3 set and I'm using some 1950's Ken Rad 2a3 tubes that I had in my collection. The cyber is a Intergrated amp with a headphone plugin but I have rewired it to be a pwr amp only removing the volume control and headphone speaker switch out of the signal path. Both amps will be driven by my MZ2S preamp. More thoughts to follow. Kenny. |
evolvist, I can relate to everything that you have said, I have great memories of my first real hi fi speakers which were Khorns when I was 19 yrs old and I remember the anticipation and frustration waiting for 2 months for a set of better tweeter drivers for those big horns.I ordered them through the mail and had to send a personal check but when I finally got them and installed them they sure did sound good back then.It's been so long ago I can't recall what brand of tweeter it was. Then later I decided to rework the crossovers and that was a whole another adventure to say the least and I'm not gonna bore you guys with it. Kenny. |
racer12b, "Maybe Tekton Design has decided to install better crossovers, drivers and brace cabinets since my experience with the Enzos" Yes on all items. I have never heard any of the Enzo's but I did hear the pendragon several yrs ago and wasn't impressed at all but the DI's are a completely different story. I do believe that anybody on these threads is allowed to have their own opinion but It does look kinda strange that you just joined up on Audiogon and your very first post is a negative one. Kenny. |
evolvist, "Yeah, Kenny, you've actually opened these boxes up. How was the design on the insides" The Di cabinets are well made at their price point IMO and they do have a cross brace in the area of each woofer which also supports the back end of each woofers magnet.The upper section has a sealed compartment which houses the mids and tweeters and this compartment is the height and internal width of those drivers and is 8 inches in depth.The woofers enjoy the majority of the internal volume and I think both key items are the other reasons why this speaker sounds so darn good. The crossover for the woofers is mounted to the bottom brace and the crossover for the upper drivers is mounted vertically on the wall of the sealed compartment. The cabinet just has a small amount of regular fiberglass insulation as the damping material and even though I personally don't see a problem with that there may be some room for improvement. Offcourse we all need to remember that this wonderful sounding speaker only cost a measly 3k and the majority of the cost is in the drivers which equal 1/3 or slightly more overall cost and also the parts cost in the upgraded crossovers aren't cheap either.Eric uses decent wire throughout and that costs money to. Kenny. |
Gentlemen, Thank's for all the good input, Aric definitely builds everything point to point with no circuit boards used at all. He has never built a 2a3 amp so we are talking about different options but still looking at a 2 k budget. I told him I definitely want a good strong pwr supply and SS rectified and would greatly prefer a 6sn7 for each side.I'm not sure which output transformers we may use yet but will have to be within the allotted budget.He also always uses good ceramic tube sockets and will also have adjustable feedback that may come in handy. He is also building a set amp making 25 watts per channel that uses the Kt-150 tube and that might be a option for folks that need more pwr. The James transformers,which I know are very good but are out of production are getting very pricey so Electra print may be a better option vs the hammonds.For this build I don't see any C core transformers that will meet budget either and I don't know yet what the primary Impedance of the output transformers will need to be. I do know that I want speaker outputs that have both 4 ohm and 8 ohm and would generally use the 4 ohm with the DI's. I tried the 8ohm taps from both of my tube amps and I got weaker bass but had higher Spl before soft clipping occurred and the 4 ohm taps just sounds much better. Kenny. |
Charles, Even though the Zotl 40 is a very good amp, The 2a3 is even more convincing with better natural tone and timbre of instruments and voices and has just a wonderful midrange that isn't too much of a good thing like my Yamamoto is. I'm gonna save my Yamamoto for my smaller 2nd system and hunt for a speaker that is lean sounding in the mids and I think that will be a better match. I know that my DI's measure pretty flat with just a small bump up around 500hz,possibly other 300b amps would match better with the DI's for people that need more pwr. It's been a number of yrs since I owned a 2a3 amp and I guess I forgot how good they can be and with the DI's I do believe I've found a better match for at least 90% of the music I listen too excluding full orchestra. It just proves to me once again how darn easy the Di speaker is to drive and also how good the little LTA MZ2S preamp is also. I did change 300b tubes in my Yamamoto to the recommended Eml Xls and it does sound better overall than it ever has but it just has too much midrange bloom for my tastes. All I can say is Teajay is correct when he has stated numerous times that the low pwr 2a3 amp can rattle his walls and also sounds very good with all kinds of music. Kenny. |
Charles, Thank You for your valued perspective and I will be looking forward to read about Mac's and your outcome with your Frank's driving mac's DI's and using the MZ2S line stage .Should be quite interesting. I've read several different takes on the Yamamoto that I have and you are correct it's quite a warm amp even with the very quiet and neutral Siemens c3m driver tubes that the amp uses and without doing a complete circuit redesign I don't have any suitable substitute for that tube.Maybe a lively V-cap coupling cap might change it's character for the better. After talking to you and also reading several reviews on the Frank's I have no doubt that they sound very good and might be a good choice for me but I can't get past the chrome and I much prefer good ole basic black.But never say never right. There is a upincoming amp builder and his name is Aric Kimball and his website is Aric audio.com,I've been talking with him about building me a custom 2a3 amp that uses 6sn7 drivers and solid state rectification and also staying under 2k. Kenny. |
grannyring, Aric of Aric Audio is located in Springfield,Massachusetts. Charles, I don't know how much a compromise your Frank's with 8 ohm taps will be either but there is only one way to find out and that Offcourse is to try them as you know.If you guys want to you might bring that first watt sit2 and see how that does. Another thought in my amp comparisons is without question and even though my Zotl 40 is a great sounding amp It can't quite match the little consonance 2a3 in overall sonic purity. It's been a couple of yrs for me that I've had a Dht set in my system for any length of time and when listening to it I just get more involved and lost in the music and don't even think about putting my Audiophile hat on. There is just a lot can be said about set amps and their simple circuits and I do fully realize they aren't going to be for everyone especially folks that combine their systems into a Ht. You know I'm a highly technical kind of guy by nature and occupation but when I can forget all about that and turn my brain off in those aspects and just get involved in the music I think that means something great is happening without question. As much as I like talking about all of this gear that we buy it's still just a means to a end of the enjoyment of music playback in our homes. Kenny. |
grannyring, Very valid points and I couldn't agree more. evolvist, "It just amazes me that 3.5 WPC is driving the DIs. I can't get the concept out of my head. I still feel like that if a buy the 2a3 that it won't have enough headroom even for my small room. That's just my rational mind talking" I can understand exactly what you are questioning because I wandered about it to. I have probably used more different amps then most have with the DI's from the 1watt MZ2S,which is a lot of fun but not quite enough pwr,to the 700 watt ps audio mono's that I borrowed and I can tell you that in my 20x25x9 room that has a open kitchen on one side the 3 watt 2a3 will rattle the walls if needed and easily reach peaks of 98db at my listening position 10ft away and just sound marvelous doing so.When I had the Zu audio Druid v's and later the Definition 4's which are rated much higher efficiency the 3watts wasn't enough and a 845 tube set amp was a much better match. It just proves to me how easy the DI's are to drive and other speakers may have a higher efficiency rating but they are a tougher load for a Amp. Like I always say you may just have to try one out for yourself and see how you like something. Now if I use my 8watt Yamamoto 300b amp,it has enough pwr to be convincing playing full orchestra music very loudly but that's only 5% or less of the music I generally listen to. Mac, I hope that you and Charles have fun trying some different gear combinations and be sure and let us know how it works out. Kenny. |
Lance, Very nice to read about that old amp, I remember those from the mid 80's and they were quite popular with the high end crowd.I couldn't afford one though and I would imagine that nowadays most of them are in Asia somewhere. porscheracer, I'm glad you are liking that pioneer and I don't doubt it sounds better than your Vidar and you have found out for yourself that 30watts is huge pwr with a speaker like the DI's.I'm glad you found one that had been updated and ready to go. Kenny. |
grannyring, Yes I will keep you updated with the 2a3 build and prices. porscheracer, If my memory is correct, The m22 has about 23db of voltage gain which is only 3db lwr than most SS amps at 26db.It's been a long time since I had mine. You probably will be just fine running it in your rack as long as all 4 sides are open.You should be able to touch the heatsinks for at least 5 seconds and not be too painful.It would be nice if you had more height than 2 inches if possible. The M22 has extremely low distortion and a very good signal to noise ratio of 106.Very impressive specs back in 1976.Being a pure class A push pull design it probably draws about 240 watts from the wall anytime it's on even with no music playing. Most of the original M22 and M25 amps found there way to Asia because they are highly collectible. I know we covered this 1 watt subject before,I find my MZ2S quite good sounding by itself with simple acoustic jazz and vocal music but It's not enough for really rocking out or full Orchestra music at realistic levels. I can say also that it's one heck of a great sounding headphone amp but I don't even own any and had to borrow a pair to find out. Probably at your loudest listening I doubt that you are using more than 8 to 10 watts with the M22 and your Di speakers. Enjoy that music, Kenny. |
Hello All, Aric of Aric Audio and I worked out the details of a custom SE 2a3 tube amp that will use a oversized pwr supply and Electra Print 15watt outputs so I will be able to get 8 to 10 watts using the new production JJ 2a3-40 tube and also use regular 2a3 tubes at the normal 3.5 watts. The JJ tube is capable of dissapating 40 watts and a normal 2a3 dissipates 25 watts. There is some older reviews of the JJ tube if you google for them. We came up with price slightly below $1800.00 with shipping and no tubes.Should be a very good sounding amp especially for the price. Kenny. |
Charles, Yes I think this is going to be a nice sounding little amp and will be versatile with tube changes and pwr outputs.The JJ 2a3-40 tube is very similar in physical size of a 300b and shares some of the same internal structure with different electrical requirements. We are using the Audyn Cap Plus as the coupling caps,these are very reasonable in price and Aric likes them for their natural and smooth sound.I will try them for awhile and then make that decision. I've used The Jupiter copper foils before and those might be better. He just uses standard copper hook up wiring internally and there may be some room for improvement there also. As mentioned before Aric only builds his amps and preamps point to point with no circuit boards. If I really like this amp,I may look into a build of Basically the same amps but in mono blocks that may utilize interstage transformers instead of coupling caps,not sure if that can be accomplished with the 2a3. Kenny. |
Charles, Thank You for your recommendations and the info on your well enjoyed Coincident gear. Grannyring, Thank you for your good ideas coming from all your Diy and modding experience. You are correct the pwr supply will have electrolyte caps at this price point and will need to addressed,maybe could use film bypass caps, the amp will be built in a small 12x7 case so probably not much extra room. When I do get it I will send you some pics and see what you think will be best to do. Kenny. |
Charles, I glad you guys got together and got to listen to some different gear paired together I beat that was quite enjoyable for both you guys. Would you say that the DI's are really good at the disappearing thing and just get out of the way of the music. I wander about the SE version as well,I guess a little more time will tell. Kenny. |
Very good information and assessment of some fine gear. Art pepper and Lee Morgan are my 2 favorites for a very long time. mac, Sounds like you now know without any doubts the sonics that you want to get and I wish you the best of luck to obtain this nice gear as your budget allows. I can definitely say for me that is so nice to find my way back too that wonderfull Dht set sound,these kind of amps convey such purity,natural tone and timbre and are just so darn engaging. I could say when I turn my Set on my left brain turns off.😃 Enjoy that music brothers, Kenny. |
porscheracer, It doesn't surprise me that you are finding out that 30 Wpc of vintage pure class a pwr not only sounds great but is enough for the volume levels you listen to. I've used amps with pwr ratings from the 1.4 watts from the MZ2S to 700 watts from the ps audio mono's and every where as practicable in between. Currently doing quite well overall with 3.5 watts 2a3 Set with the exception of full orchestra recordings that generally have no or very little compression and I'm slightly cheating with some classic rock recordings were I require stout and deep bass with good slam by using my subs,but those 2 genres of music make up a small % of the music I generally listen too. When I get my new design 2a3 amp built that will have 8-10 watts and easily 3db more headroom it will be a interesting comparison for me. Happy Listening, Kenny. |
porscheracer, I will 2nd the obvious choice which is the outstanding MZ2S. I have only used the single ended rca's on my Yggy so I can't comment about that. I have had several different setups that were fully balanced the last being a pass labs Xp-10 and Xa-30.8 and now that my entire system is single ended I honestly don't miss balanced connections at all and view them as not needed in my system. The MZ2s easily beats the 2 preamps that I had before in the sonic presentation that I desire. You would also just for fun be able to experience the 1.4 watts from the MZ2S with your DI speakers like most of us have. Kenny. |
snopro, No worries at all and other opinions are always valued. I haven't had the opportunity to hear any of the Supratek's,they are generally hard to come by. Your comparison of the 2 completely different preamp topology's are spot on and it comes down to system synergy and user sonic presentation preferences.IMO. I directly replaced a Valvet soul shine and a modwright ls-100 with the MZ2S in my system. My preferences are to have the speed and transparency from the MZ2S as you mentioned and I prefer to get texture,tone,liquidity and realism from the pwr amp that I'm using. Your post is greatly valuable and these comparisons will give porscheracer more info in his search. Kenny. |
snopro, Very nice system with some outstanding gear. I wonder if you could give us your thoughts on the direct comparison of your 2 fine amps in your system. I used to own the pass labs Xp-10 and Xa30.8 but I haven't heard the Frank's. Charles has shared his thoughts on the Frank's and his journey of getting them dialed in his system. Enquiring ears would like to know. Enjoy that music my friend, Kenny. |
porscheracer, You have some very good choices given to you and the decision may take some time for you to sort out. Owning the DI's which are 95 db efficient the best choice for me is always going to be a preamp that doesn't have anymore voltage gain then 10db. Best of luck to you in your search, Kenny. |
rja, "Long thread, let me see if I have this all straight. 1. Tekton - Double Impact $3000 2. Tekton - Double Impact + upgrade package $3300 3. Tekton - Double Impact SE $6000 not yet available Please correct list if not accurate. Any idea of SE release date" Yes this is correct pricing, The SE version is going to be dealer only,I believe,and you might call Mike Kay owner of Audio archon and see when he will have a pair available for demo. Kenny. |
David, You have inquired about a very personal and subjective aspect of reproduction of music for the playback in our home. It's going to be difficult for me to add anymore than what Charles has already said but I will try. When I judge a system for my personal interpretation of what sounds the best,most natural with reference to real instruments and voices,and also Important to me is correct Image size,I listen for the following criteria in this order. Tone Timbre Texture Overall soundstage presentation which would include Liquidity or holographics. If my system pleases my ears in these aspects,especially the first 3 then I concentrate all my attention to the stage and judge critically to what I interpret to be believeable for a recording. Basically If I listen to any system and the tone is to bright or to dark for me I stop right there and make changes to my system. I'm not so critical with Timbre and Texture and generally speaking of the high level of gear represented on this thread It ends up being a hair splitting contest.If these aspects of the overall sonics sound correct and pleasing to the individual listener then I say go with what you like. Now with all that being said, I will bring up the absolute most important aspect for me and that would be the engagement or emotional connection with the music that I'm getting and feeling.When this connection is high I forget all about the rest of these aspects and get lost in the music and I probably couldn't even tell you if the Di speaker has 7 tweeters or 40.😃 Always remember every form of music is all about Emotion,I'm sure you know this. I probably will always have some different gear around that at a moments notice I can change and get a slightly different flavor,fun stuff. Here is a couple links that may help, https://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/ https://www.musical-u.com/learn/music-timbre-texture-tone/ I hope any of this has helped, Kenny. |
porscheracer, I can relate to your situation and your not being in any hurry is a good thing and that is a wise decision. I gave you my impression of the freya many pages back and I won't repeat it here. You need to understand that most of us on this thread are experienced,picky and fussy audiophiles for many yrs. If it was me I would also stay with a preamp that uses the 6sn7 octal tube,I'm very biased though. Kenny. |
imswjm, Since you are asking about Audio Archon's green cord,I can tell you I bought a 2m one and replaced a much more expensive Triode labs cord.This was the only change to my system that day and within 15 secs of listening I could hear the difference in lwr noise and more music without a doubt and easily 1/3 of the cost.The 2 m green cord was $360.00 including shipping.I have a shorter blue cord going to my preamp's pwr supply and it was the same story,lwr noise equals more music. I consider Mike's pwr cords to be very well made and a extremely good value. Does anybody want to buy a slightly used one owner triode labs pwr cord.😃 Kenny. |
The good news for all of us is the DI's most definitely give us a speaker that is a true "Conduit" and will respond to any changes made upstream of them but on the other hand we have a speaker that's fairly forgiving and does exceptionally well with all kinds of gear. In my 36 yrs in this hobby,I haven't ever owned or heard a speaker quite like this one and I smile in amazement every day that I listen too them. Simply no right way or wrong way in gear choices and what pleases the "Ears" of each individual audiophile/musiclover. Kenny. |
I would have to totally disagree with a night and day difference between high pwr amps and low pwr amps with the DI's. I have probably used more different amps in comparison than anyone else that I know of,the 1.4 watts from the MZ2S to 700 watts class d from the ps audio mono's. I have found the differences in power to mainly effect the bass presentation with tighter and dryer bass when using higher pwr SS amps.The speakers definitely need enough pwr to be convincing and that could most definitely differ with room size,volume levels,types of music. I have used 24 different amps with the Di speaker and I will be trying out the benchmark ahb2 this week,on loan from a local friend. I have played the piano the majority of my life and I definitely know what's convincing and what Isn't and I base the sound of other instruments from live music. Now if you where talking about any of the Zu audio speakers I would definitely agree with you,they do need some pwr to give them some shove or the music sounds like it's stuck in the box. The good news is there isn't a right way or wrong way and It's up to the individual to decide. Kenny. |
teajay, Very interesting update with some different tubes, I personally haven't ever used any of the golden dragon tubes in any amp but I've been told by several guys that they can be quite good. I'm happy to read that you are enjoying Aric's workmanship and I hope you are able to also try a pair of Tung Sol Kt-150's for comparison. Kenny. |
I believe if my memory is correct the golden dragon kt-88 was made by the JSC Svetlana company in Russia and was actually a 6550 retro tube of the original Gec.This company also made several Dht tubes such as 2a3,300b,350b,211,845 and more starting in 1992. They also made a limited selection of 9 pin small signal tubes that were well thought of at the time. Most of these are very hard to come by now but not completely impossible to find. Kenny. |
schw06, "I finally read a Nelson Pass article about distortion and found out that it's about an even split between people that prefer 3rd order harmonic distortion to 2nd order....Clearly my ears prefer the 3rd harmonic and that truly helped me make decisions about speaker choices and amplification. It was liberating to know that there wasn't something wrong with me for not loving SET" Here is a link to the article from Nelson Pass that David is referring to in his previous post on this same page above. http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_dist_fdbk.pdf It's a long read but just like any of Nelson's other articles, It's very well explained and makes perfect sense.IMO. Kenny. |
mazikrav, If all you have ever heard in tube land is a mushy old dynaco then you have no idea how good they can be,but I will say no more unless you ask and I will lead you to a F7 which I think would be a logical stepup in a slightly more open sound but still retaining plenty of that 3rd order sound you like and may also have a sweeter top end and slightly better control of the bass. The 30.8 is very nice also but is big,heavy,and puts of more heat than a first watt and probably is a little overkill for you in Pwr. The best SS that I have heard yet is my Diy Sit2 that uses a pair of Nos Sony Vfet's in a push pull topology making 40watts into 4ohms, but these are rare amps and only a handful were built from a small collection of matched and genuine Sony transistors and they are pretty much unobtainable now. Nelson does have a couple new amps in his FW lineup coming out probably next year and that would be the F8 and the Sit3. Or you could really step out of the box and get yourself the all in one Lyngdorf Tdai-2170 that grannyring and others are really liking. I personally haven't heard one but I will predict that in the next 5 to 10 yrs this kind of Class D technology will be further refined along with improvements to switch mode pwr supply's that will turn the Audio Industry upside down and probably only small percentages of Audiophiles will retain their Tubes and Class A SS gear. I'm stocking up on tubes as I write this post because I will always have a least a couple of Tube amps for a different fun flavor forever.😃 Kenny. |
The LTA Zotl 40 is my opinion like a blank canvas in sound and most definitely can be voiced in several ways but Offcourse can only be taken so far and some folks may still a preference in a warmer,meatier midrange. I use 1966 Mullard xf2's el34 with either rca 5751's or brimar 6060 in the 12ax7 input differential pair.I have found no difference in sound by changing the phase splitter 12au7's. This combo gives me plenty of meat on the bones in the mids equal to like eating baby back ribs instead of the big fat spare ribs that I don't like as well.😋 I tried the gold lion kt77's but I didn't care for them at all and I have a new quad of the Sophia electric el-34's but I haven't tried them yet. I mainly listen to my little consonance 2a3 set and I'm patiently waiting for my Aric audio custom 2a3 to be built. The Zotl 40 just like my FW sit is going nowhere they are both that good and I consider them to be keepers. Kenny. |
"So they seem to have found a nice niche with not much competition at their price points currently. Smart! " I could'nt agree more,kept a bunch of money in my pocket. Charles, Do you have any plans to demo the SE version of the Di speaker when Mike Kay owner of Audio Archon has a pair in house and setup.Just curious my friend. Kenny. |
