Tekton Double Impacts

LP, Really sorry to hear that. Wishing you and your family the best and the calm seas you seek.

@whacky :

I have the Giant Threaded Stud Gliders. They extend an 8th of an inch or less past the speaker cabinet.

I cannot speak to the difference in isolation or performance vs the standard sized gliders.

@porscheracer :

Have to ask, which Porsche? Or is it Porsches :)

I've had the Schiit Yggdrasil for nearly two years now, serving as the front end of three different systems. It has performed brilliantly and this holds true with the DIs as well.

Congratulations on your purchase of the DIs. Looking forward to hearing how they work out for you.

It just occurred to me that our discussions on this thread are heavily weighted towards amplifier pairings with the Double Impacts, and to a lesser degree the preamplifier; and specifically optimal outcomes with respect to both component types.

There has been some discussion of source components, but in terms of a weighted average very low coverage of the front end.

I find this very interesting and am curious as to why this may be the case. Thoughts?

Kenny, my post wasn't and isn't about suggestions for DACs. Your PS Audio Direct Stream with the Huron update is widely praised and recognized; and I think there are others on this thread that are also very happy with theirs, as you are.

I'm in no way suggesting that we should be unhappy with what we currently have.

I'm just surprised that the front ends appear to be static or status quo for most of us. This strikes me as odd when we (MYSELF included) are working on replacing preamps and amps. 

And this is in spite of a truly remarkable whole lot of 'whole lot of' going on in the digital arena.

@kdude66 @porscheracer @craigl59 @lmswjm @sbayne @bullitt5094

Thanks to all of you who responded to my query (regarding minimal discussion of our source / front end components) with your thoughts and perspectives. Very helpful in expanding my understanding.

Some additional thoughts regarding that post (page 27 closer to the bottom of the page).

Bill: I suggest the speaker expresses rather than "determine[s] the appropriate quality of the other upstream components in a system." Would you agree?

Kenny, You said: "I look at that as most users of the DI’s already have a quality front end either digital or analog and are kinda set using what sounds good to them,..."

This was my implied concern with the original post/question:

’What if we don’t?’

It is difficult for me to imagine that we do, given that we are spending a lot of time, energy, and budgets on amps and preamps. If we believe two parts of the chain need massaging (which is pretty much happening across all DI owners, myself included), why not all parts?

We certainly haven’t spent much time on that end of the equation, so how would we really know?

This falls under that ’philosophical question’ moniker. Additional thoughts?

@kdude66  Kenny, your point about overall system synergy is on point! Thank you for your personal thoughts on this. 

The forums over at Computer Audiophile, as one example, are by no means static in this area (digital). Some very, very interesting approaches being pursued and experimented with, many with good returns. AudioStream is good at covering some of these topics with a 'very light hand' by way of their reviews.
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@craigl59  Yes. And there has been a steady progression going on for  some time now (at least in electronic audio time).

I'm familiar with the TDAI 2170 and it tends to be one of my recommendations for folks looking for a current and multi-functional integrated. I've also been actively following the Lyngdorf MP-50 since it's release...as a pre/pro for HT and 2ch integration.

Other manufacturers have also done the same in their own ways. I believe Wadia was one of the early leaders in this area. NAD also comes to mind.

We are also starting to see a number of higher end All-In-Ones from a number of the players in audio electronics. By AIOs, I mean much more than an integrated with DAC. The move to modular builds alleviates concerns regarding future proofing.

Another example: Meridian's move to close to an all in one solution in their speakers is another way the industry will be moving forward.

Exogal also believes it is on to something. I'm hopeful that they have a one box solution in the works.  I own their Exogal Comet Plus - Exogal Ion combination. It is a very good product.
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@porscheracer:  Schiit Audio definitely kicks the value ratio up into the sky. All the way up to Tyr! : ) 

I have the Yggdrasil as my main DAC and it is fantastic. It is being fed a highly optimized USB stream. Something to consider for whichever DAC you choose. You probably know this, but in case not, there are those that swear that AES/BNC is better with the Yggy. USB isn't the only option.

Other ways to go would be down the i2S rabbit hole and LAN to Optical conversion.

Also a word of caution...since you are going all Schiit in your chain...this may be too much of a 'like-like-like' good thing. Their tubed components will help in this regard. Warmer cabling will also. Their gear also needs long break-in times, so be prepared to wait it out. 

Since you will be one of the first Vidar owners, I'm looking forward to hearing from you on how they work for you in general and specifically pair with the DIs.

BTW, forgot to mention this earlier. Nice on racing your modded '87.
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Thanks to all for your ongoing thoughts. I'll repeat what others have already mentioned, this thread has been terrific for my learning and ongoing education. Though, Kenny, I'm still looking for that enlightenment thing you brought up. Agon as Peepal Tree??? :)

@craigl59 and @bullitt5094

How’s JRiver in terms of a learning curve? Do you recommend it over Roon?

@porscheracer I’ll have to reach out to you regarding the Singxer. I invested in USB early, so I’ve stayed with it but I think it’s time to try some of the other (and likely superior) options. Not sure where you stand on the ’cable thing’ but I’ve had good results squeezing more out of the Yggy. Next step is isolation.

What are you looking at for the LAN to AES Endpoint?

Bottom line, with respect to the Double Impacts, as everyone has mentioned, you will be able to hear the changes you make.

Since I’ve been recently serious in my reflections, reaching out to my tube loving brethren with some lighter fare.

Your take on this quote from Art Dudley?

"If tubes are liquor, the 300B is clearly absinthe. The 2A3 is Cognac, the 45 is Armagnac, the F2a is Tequila, and the EL34 is vodka—which is to say, you can make almost anything out of an EL34, from the repulsive to the sublime."

Are then the Double Impacts the ’equivalent’ of a breathalyzer? And a sommelier?

The 1 Watt output has been accepted de rigueur.

Has anyone bench measured the actual power output of the MZ2S?

@craigl59 :

Thank You!!! for your earlier response to my question regarding JRiver.

The very steep learning curve was what had held me off using it in the past, and you've confirmed that it still has a steep learning curve.

I'd like to keep things simple but realize I'm leaving some control and performance on the table by not investing the required time to learn and be proficient with JRiver.

@bullitt5094  Are you therefore, watching movies outdoors in your Mustang....?    : )

@porscheracer  Toe in similar to what @corelli stated.

4 feet from the front wall. 5 feet from the side walls, 8 feet apart. 8-9 feet to listening position (all measurements approximate).

Not surprised on your only needing one amp. Looking forward to hearing more about your impressions with the DIs and your system.

Welcome milpai

Is this thread not suspicious anymore?

Yesterday you posted: " I have not heard the Tektons, but that huge thread and the same people recommending the speakers over and over again is making me suspicious."

milpai

Still "is" what?

I asked you a simple question about a previous post. 

Did you see a question or response or any comment to the post you made here on 7/19?

I don't. Do you?

@lpretiring : You may want to check with @almarg before proceeding. Edit: See that @almarg has already responded.

@kdude66   Kenny, hows your LTA experiment progressing? :)

@bullitt5094  Neo is still the one. No worries.

Or is it MZ2S and Triode2A3 are the one... : )

@kdude66   Kenny, looking forward to your test results from today's MZ2S exam!

@kdude66 

Kenny, thanks for the detailed post on the driver array and how it works. From an earlier post of yours:

"So, acoustically you have a six inch mid-range driver with a coaxial mounted tweeter which means it functions as a single point source."

I understand the single point source concept, however I don't see how that would work when doubled up as it is with the Ulfberths. Can you explain?

Thanks.

@lpretiring  There was so much back and forth today, that I overlooked saying: Congratulations on ordering the Electrons.

If you are having second thoughts about how they might work for you vs the Double Impacts, perhaps Eric can swap out your order?

I cannot see how you can go wrong with the Triode 2A3 amp. Triode is well regarded, not only in this thread, but to reaches far far beyond. 

And you may be surprised at how well your current preamp functions in the chain.

Many of us have been moving new equipment in to optimize our listening experiences and preferences since purchasing the Double Impacts. If a component isn't a good fit, it is far from the end of the world. In fact, I'd say that the beautiful part of the journey is just beginning for you!

I'd wait until you've had some time with the Electrons and then make a much more informed choice.

@corelli  You may have to start reporting on calories burned per ride, since your mileage is being eclipsed. Kms will work for the short term. :)

@lpretiring  Loreena McKennitt is wonderful! I heard her for the first time in a coffee shop in Fredericton (that's New Brunswick Canada).

You will get your Electrons. Eric always delivers. :)

@mazikrav  Fred, Thanks for sharing more about your listening preferences, your Brilliance speakers, and thoughts on the topics on hand.

A get together in the Salt Lake City area sounds fantastic.

Our very own "Tektonic Burning Man" if you will. :)

@sjwpwrpro  Welcome and great that you are posting in the thread and that you are very happy with the Double Impacts. Looking forward to hearing more about your system and how the DIs keep working for you as you bring in the Freya etc.

@sebrof  Welcome and hope you are able to audition the DIs. Where in Texas are you located?

@vitop Any updates on your end? Do you have your 'Mini Ulfs?'

@porscheracer : I'm using Herbie's Giant Threaded Stud Gliders.

1/4" - 20

I'm using the 1 inch length, but others have used 1.5 inches.

@kdude66  

Thanks, Kenny. I had a feeling it was in excess of a Watt at 4ohms. At the 1W level, a 38% increase is significant. : )

Not only did you ace the test, you went all in for extra credit. : )

Here's how to PM, one way at least:

Click on the member's name.

Click on Details.

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You can also do this through the Member Lookup Link when you are in the Main Audiogon Site via the drop down menu > Explore > Member Lookup.

Congratulations, mdlofnwhr.

I had the RR2150 a long long time ago and it was a really nice stereo receiver...I imagine the 2160 has come a long way from then/there also.

Looking forward to hearing how it all works out!

@evolvist :  

The AHB2 is a phenomenal amp. I'm sure you will be very happy with it and the Linn KDS/3, especially since you are probably looking for a very 'clean and clear' presentation. Given this (I'm assuming), the Ulf mini is probably a better choice over the DIs.

Speaking of Decware, I have been keeping an eye on their product line-up...just haven't been able to make the jump to tubes yet.

Since you were comparing DACs/Pres and settled on the Linn, did you also consider the Bricasti M12?

@grannyring   The TDAI is uber cool. Wish they could make a bigger splash in the U.S. market...but, for those in the know.... : )

@evolvist  Thanks for the info on the Bricasti M12.  

The DIs will surprise you with hard rock and beyond. Like @mofojo  says, it depends on the recording. The ability of the DIs to separate and layer musical information is exceptional.

And just one clarification. In my previous post I was referring to tubes in the present. I came to my present solid state self from a very tubular existence.  : )  

Hi @iamasif  Have you considered leaving the DIs as is for your home theatre application and using a single sub for LFE only?

Others are using subs, so they will be able to let you know what's working for them. 80 Hz seems high, to me.

Anyone have any experience and recommendations on a dCS dealer? The closest ones to me are in Atlanta and Dallas. I'm fairly sure I am not region protected.

Component I'm considering is the dCS Network Bridge.

Thanks.

@evolvist  

Great to hear that you and Bullitt had a terrific evening.

With the Linn as your front end, and with its Space Optimization, and the ABH2 driving Bullitt's DIs, I think you will be picking up your socks.

Happy to start a sock collection, should you lose yours. :)

Enjoy the next audition adventure.

@vitop  If those are the speakers you ordered for the side walls, they look very cool. Are you going with the white as shown in the pics?

@evolvist 

I, for one, don't think this is off topic at all. I'd say it is very relevant.

This thread has been about improving sound quality, as expressed through the Double Impacts, which all of us are working on in different ways. From our many posts and discussions that process is still evolving with excellent results across the board.

I'm quite interested in your findings and from those that have used other room correction approaches/software. 

@vitop :  That's going to be some sound system once you have it installed. 

Hope there is an open invite for an in person listen once all is optimized!

@vitop  Before getting the Double Impacts I was focused on building a home theatre system. I was actively looking at Pre/Pros and the Lyngdorf MP-50 was a possibility, though a stretch for me at it's asking price and the fact that it was a brand new product. It had just been released and there were bugs that were being worked out.

I'm guessing you are following it over at AVSForums. If not, take a look at the dedicated thread with active dealer updates and support.

You are right in pointing out that the TDAI 2170 and the MP-50 are very different products.

The target audience / buyer of the MP-50 is very different than the 2170. And the applications are vastly different. 

If your concerns are around adding external power amps and cabling, I wouldn't be. 

@vitop  We are on the same page! : ) At the end of my research I ended up with the Anthem being the best choice for me as well, albeit with a separate chain for 2ch.

@teajay   Excellent read. Informative. Lovely! Thanks.

@porscheracer  Thanks for sharing the photographs of your speakers and setup. It's nice to get perspective on how things look in one's room. I see you have the bike set up to serve as a diffuser!  : )

@roxy1927   As you know, so much of our hobby is about personal preferences and personal choices based on any number of varying factors. The only way for you to truly know is to hear the Kef Blades and the upper level Tektons for yourself and decide. 

I don't believe there is a perfect speaker out there, but at the individual level there are probably some; and for you it might be the Kefs or Tekton or something else. 

The Tekton owners as well as some other active members on this thread are very helpful and if you are looking for specific guidance, do reach out.

@333jeffery I did drive the Tekton Double Impacts with the NAD M27 for a short time. This was a few months ago, and I was evaluating the Oppo UDP 205 (rather than the M27s or the DIs). Driven by the 205 - M27s pairing the DIs sounded very clean with tons of detail.

I’m breaking in a Pass XA30.8 now. If you need to make a decision quickly, I can swap in the M27; otherwise, I can put it in system a week from now. Let me know.

+1 on what @vitop says in his above post. If you like the sound of good
Class D, you should be ok with it. As you know, and as has been mentioned many times in the thread -- The DIs are honest and will reflect what you have in the chain ahead of them.

FYI, The M27s are Hypex N-Core.

@evolvist  I mentioned bringing the  M27 in as a check, in case it was beneficial for @333jeffery to get a baseline for Class D. I believe @333jeffery is playing at a level far above the M27. : )  : )  : )

@evolvist and @bullitt5094  Great to hear Bullitt's system is coming together. Looking forward to hearing more about the SEs once they are fully run-in.

@vitop  I'm pleased with the NAD M27. And it is frustrating that it is sitting idle while I wait for my HT system to take shape. Like you, I've been impressed with it's reviews and performance in my system. And like you, I will probably have the Anthem AVM 60 in front of it. But I wouldn't choose it as my go to amp for 2ch, as long as I had choices. For that, I have a very clear lean towards Class A/B and now finally a Class A amp in the Pass XA30.8.  Your response to 333Jeffery made me think it would be good to get it back in system and see how it does, now that my system is more 'mature' and better dialed in than it was when I had just received the Double Impacts.

@vitop  

It's a very good question. And I plan to find out much more specifically, when I bring the M27 back in. It will be a good test for me.

These things / differences are about preferences and experiences. And they uniquely become more about us than uniquely about the electronic component. 

I also come from having a tube based system and bias when I was seriously into 2ch audio circa 2006 to 2012. Since then, until this April, I have had a major holiday from 2ch.  In this now current iteration I've decided to go solid state. For now. : )

I'll try to answer your question, but I apologize in advance if what I share is not satisfactory. First off, I'll say that each of these amps has a 'signature' to its sound re-production via the DIs that my ears differentiate over longer listening periods with each amp. These are not serious nor negative differences, but differences nonetheless. If I only had a single amp, I'd be happy accepting any one of them. They are all good enough for my needs. BUT, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT, I also accept that there are better amps (to my ears) available than what I have.

I spent more time comparing the Moon Neo 330A and the SST SoA mk2, which are both class A/B (and not the M27 since it's multi-channel and is planned for HT) when I first got the DIs.  I realized that the SST was ultimately preferable (and this was after initially preferring the Moon) and it was mainly because it was 'warmer,' with more body than the Moon Neo and I liked how the musical 'energy' was portrayed by the SST. As I've tweaked and upgraded my system, the SST has been able to keep up and showcase the changes along with the DIs and the rest of the chain.

In terms of the M27, I'm going from memory from about 4 months ago, when my system was just being re-built. I'd say that it boils down to my musical and emotional response, with the other amps delivering more of the connection to the music and artists that's important to me. If it was the only amp I had, despite the extra channels, I'd be happy listening to 2ch or to a hybrid 2ch/HT system via this amp.

Once you get your Tektons in, play with different amps...perhaps some local audio buddies can bring their amps over...I understand @evolvist  loves to travel with his! : )

I'd also be happy to send the SST to you, when you have your system setup and dialed in for you to compare with your M27, driving the main L/R channels.

James, welcome to the thread.

And thanks for telling us about your system and what worked for you with the amps you have had on hand.

Love the pics on your Canuck Audiomart site. The DIs look sweet...what colour? Mine are soft grey.

You've got quite a collection of speakers and components.

Seeing the Totem Winds brought back memories. Good ones.