Hey Lance,
I strongly stick to my position regarding having enough space, at least 4 to 5 feet off front wall, at least 3 feet off the side walls, and 2 to 3 feet from the ceiling. So, it seems you do have enough space to set the Ulf's up to perform their highest ability. And believe me this is one great speaker and a true bargain, just like the DI's, even at 12K!
Hope this helps. |
Forgot to mention that the AricAUDIO SET KT-120 amplifier is a powerhouse SET putting out 20 watts per channel. |
Gentleman,
I very highly recommend that you put on your short list of very affordable hand made SET amplifiers, the AricAUDIO Transend Series SET KT-120 amplifier. Kenny had already mentioned on the thread that he was having Aric build him a custom SET 2A3 which I'm sure will be a superlative piece of audio art/performance.
When I setup this review with Aric for hometheatereview.com on this SET amplifier I was a very "Doubting Thomas" because I have never personally liked KT-88, 120, or 150 based amplifiers. I found them all to be very solid state "ish" for my ears. Well, after 10 hours of listening to the Transend SET KT-120, being driven by the Micro-ZOTL through the Ulfberth's I'm patiently shocked how this amplifier sounds!
If I was blindfolded and was asked what type of tube was being used I would swear that it was either a world class SET 300b or possibly a 211 based amplifier. I have another highly regarded set of SET 300b mono-blocks in-house for review that are great and they retail for 10K. Plus another thousand or so if you are going to get the best tubes to run in it.
Well, Aric's amp out performed these mono-blocks and its retail price is $2,350.00. Totally transparent- oozes mico-details effortlessly, a sound-staging wizard, great tonality, sparkly/sweet highs, silky smooth like a SET is supposed to be, and finally balls to the walls dynamics and the best control over the Ulf's gut pounding lowest octaves.
Is it better then the Triode Lab SET 2A3? No, it's a very different presentation of the music almost like comparing apples to oranges. The 2A3 is all about dense color tonality, lush liquidity, more meat on the bones, and oozing of the sound into your room. The SET Kt-120 is not quite as intimate or romantic, but gives more "clean" leading edges with out cutting your ears, more "kick/pop" to the underlying pulse of the music, not quite as colorful timbres- but wonderful tonality, and control over the bass with an accurate "iron-fist". They are both superlative, personal taste would decide which one is for you.
Well, I'm still pretty much shocked that I would ever say things like I did above about a KT-120 based amplifier. However, I had never heard this tube used in a SET design amplifier before. Aric, now joins my list of very talented designers/builders on the market today.
Final note: Rolled in some NOS Sylvania Gold Brand 12AT7's (12au7's, 12ax7's are compatible), instead of Russian Electric Harmonic current production, and the amp just got that much better! You can also use KT-88, KT-150, or 6550 power tubes to get different "tastes" in your system and whatever you roll-in/change you will easily hear it through the DI's or Ulf's. I'm looking forward to trying a pair of NOS Brimer Yellow label 60/60 12AT7's to see what magic will happen in this amplifier.
|
Hey everybody,
The Ulfberht's are a significant step above the DI's in their performance, yes I know they cost 9K more, so my is hunch with better drivers and internal parts the DI SE will be a more refined/higher level performer then the DI's. Eric, would not come out with a more costly version if he did not believe he could improve on the performance of the original model.
I will have the pleasure of hearing them in person when Mike Kay gets them in and delivered to his customer, Ezra, who is a dear friend and lives a few miles away. By the way, the array of small drivers will not be from ScanSpeak, but another very highly regarded European OEM company.
I'll be in the lucky position to hear all three models and then can give you feedback regarding the differences between the models. I have already submitted my review on the Ulfberht's to hometheaterreview.com and I'll let you guys know when it will go up on the website.
If you are running your DI's or Ulf's with tubes I highly recommend you take a look at the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier which is driving the Ulf's in my system superlatively across the sonic board. Remember this SET is 22 watts per channel so you "power hounds" would be very pleased with ultimate dB levels and grunt/control of dynamics on your DI's.
|
Based on my experience reviewing the Ulfbreht's the DI SE's will be a significant refinement over the DI's because of much higher grade drivers and internal parts. I do not believe Eric would come out with another model unless he was convinced he could take the performance to another level when there is less of a budgetary constriction. I do know that the array of drivers in the DI SE's are not ScanSpeak, but another highly regarded OEM European speaker company.
I will be in the very lucky position to hear the DI SE's as soon as my friend Ezra, Mike's friend/client gets his pair in the next couple of weeks who lives a few miles away. Since I reviewed both the DI's and the Ulfbreht's, just submitted the Ulf's review to my editor at hometheaterreveiw.com, it will be very interesting where the DI SE's will fit into the overall sonic perspective in Tekton's line.
Finally, just wanted to share that the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier is just "killing it" on the Ulfberht's across every sonic parameter! And for you "power hounds" this SET is 22 watts per channel and delivers massive dynamics/control and dB peaks that could hurt your hearing very easily on either the DI's or the Ulf's. I still can't believe that Aric only charges around 2K for this terrific amplifier. Another "Eric" that is very smart, builds quality pieces and charges insanely far prices for reference level creations that allow us "poor" folk to have great systems. Companies like Conrad Johnson, BAT, Audio Research, VTL might be losing a lot of customers if listeners would use their ears and not the price of what the piece costs. I have to add Aric's amp to the list of Linear Tube Audio and Tekton Design regarding the most "disruptive" gear on the market concerning performance to cost ratio. For very reasonable $ one can put together a killer world class system! |
Hey vitop,
I'm sorry I won't be able to provide information on disruptive gear in the video processor/muli-channel amplifier areas because I only review two channel audio gear.
I would love to review the mini-Ulf's if Eric would chose me to do it. It's been a joy and pleasure to review the DI's/Ulf's and be part of the experience of a new "wave" of stereo equipment that is reference level in performance but reasonably priced. It's the kind of gear I get a kick out of reviewing, not the over priced hyped gear that gets most of the attention because of advertising and being pushed by certain reviewers that have their reasons to promote this gear to their readers who unforunately take them seriously.
|
Hey Guys,
Regarding Zero Fidelty's take that the DI's are great in a lot of ways, but are not really at the same level of performance as 20 to 30 thousand dollar speakers, well, I sold off my 19K speakers and I know two other reviewers who sold off their 30K speakers and replaced them with the DI's.
As far as the issue of using SET amps or high power amps on the DI's or Ulf's it completely comes down to personal taste. One of the great virtues of both speakers is that you can use low/high wattage to get what you want.
With much love to both my brothers, Micheal and Allan, they both adore FREAKING loud volume levels when listening to music. Even though I have no problems with dynamics/dB levels in my system, when they come over and decide what volume level to set the system to it is almost always much louder then I would play it for my own personal taste. These guys like it really loud! Therefore, they might assume that you need a lot of watts for the DI's/Ulf's to make them "sing", however, at least in my system this is not my experience.
|
Totally agree with Kenny's opinion/position on what happens as you go up in power/watts on the DI's, and the Ulf's, slight changes in bass presentation, nothing radical regarding over "aliveness" dynamics and clear differences in tonality/color depending if you are using tubes or solid state amps. Since both speakers are easy to drive conduits, I much prefer tubes in general and SET amps specifically because of what they have to offer in timbres/tonality, meaty 3D imaging, and spatial dimensions.
To be quite frank/honest, with no disrespect to anyone, I find that many so-called audiophiles and reviewers need to play their systems at very high volume levels because over the years they have really screwed up their ability to hear high frequencies at realistic volume levels because of the many years of setting in front of their system at unsafe/harmful dB levels. Ever time I have gone to shows my first request virtually in ever room is could you please turn down the volume. Because I'm spoiled reviewer, instead of copping an attitude they often oblige. When I'm invited to other listener's home to hear the music through their system I also almost always am requesting to turn down the volume.
In all systems because of many factors their is going to be a "sweet spot" were all the dynamics are present, along with realistic sound-staging/layering, and finally the size of the individual players. My major way of dialing in that sweet spot is the size of months of singers, and if a trumpet becomes four feet long its time to reduce the volume. As a system reaches reference level performance the "sweet spot" becomes more precise with each recording and sometimes has to be reset on different selections on the same recording because the sound engineer did some changes from cut to cut. So many times I have sat in front of systems that are playing at possible damaging dB levels with prefect clarity and dynamics but the snare drum sounds like it is the size of a bath tube! Please turn it down is my quick request to the owner of the system. |
Hey Micheal,
My remark meant no disrespect to you, or Allan, at all. My statement regarding other individual's systems being played to loud for my taste was not directed at you at all, but at others. Correct, the times I have had the pleasure to be at your home this was never an issue. However, with respect to my guest listeners, including you, I always ask if the volume level is were you want it to be. Please don't take this personally, virtually everybody, with a few exceptions, that comes over asks for volume levels that I would not being listening to if I was seriously listening to my system alone. And it is very true that are dear friend Allan might be the volume "King" at getting to levels that he loves to listen most of the time. Of course the levels I think are realistic for the reasons I shared in the other post (regarding size of individual images) might be my own personal criteria, indeed. One other possibility why you like higher volume levels in my house is that the way you experience bass, how percussive/powerful it is, is more important to you then me and to get it in my very large acoustic space to your personal liking it needs to be turned up to a higher volume level. Remember, in the past Mike Kay and I have affectionately nick named you the "Bass King" because those lower frequencies are really very important to you. That's way I think you loved your Wilson speakers so much because of their low end grunt/punch.
So, love ya man, so no offense was intended at all. |
Hey Guys,
Just spent over four hours listening to the Ulfberht's being driven by the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier/Micro-ZOTL combo with one difference. I had being running a pair Tung-Sol KT-120 tubes with superlative results in my system. This morning I borrowed from my friend Ezra, who will be getting his DI SE's hopefully soon, a pair of Shuguag Golden Dragon KT-88's.
I have been listening mesmerized by the changes they brought to the system! First, the spatial dimensions exploded with more air around each instrument, depth/height in the sound-stage, and more palpability/3D imaging. Secondly, the timbres/colors of all instruments/voices had a much better density/vividness.
Again, this confirms that the DI's/Ulf's are pristine conduits that pass on what ever you feed them upstream. It also proves that Aric's SET amp is so transparent that any tube changes you make will be easily heard. A sign of a great amplifier, indeed. So, these Shuguag tubes being driven by 5751 RCA NOS Black plate triple mica's is one of the most musical amplifiers, along with the Triode Lab SET 2A3, that I have ever experienced in my system. |
Hey mac48025,
Ezra had gotten these tubes about 5 to 7 years ago. I don't know if Shuguag still even makes this version. I'll try to find out.
|
Hey Guys,
I was just sharing with Mike Kay (Audio Archon) what magic I was hearing all day long with these Shuguag KT-88 tubes in the AricAudio SET amplifier driving the Ulf's. It dawned on me during our conversation the best way to explain what I was hearing was that if the Micro-ZOTL, used as an integrated amplifier, put out ten watts per channel instead of two that's what the combo of the Micro-ZOTL and this amplifier sounds like!
|
Hey Guys,
Great news! I purchased a matched pair of JJ Blue Glass KT-88's, cost $120.00, and cannot tell the difference between their sonics and the much more expensive Shuguang tubes. I have total trust in Brent Jesse, who's opinion was that the JJ tube if not a exact sonic clone of the famous NOS Genelac's comes pretty damn close for pennies on the dollar was spot on. |
Hey Werther,
That's a great question. Without copping out here's my answer. Either amp driven by the Micro-ZOTL on both speakers are superlative in their performance across the sonic spectrum ( Timbres/color, micro-details, sweet extended highs, 3D imaging, great sound-staging, and excellent bottom end performance).
The Triode Lab SET 2A3 is slightly more 'Colorful" with a smidge more of the "meat on the bones" imaging, the AricAudio SET KT-88 is faster, offers greater space around and between players, but overall is still as smooth as melting butter.
This would totally boil down to personal taste, not an objective measure.
|
Hey Charlies,
I have owned for over 30 years Nelson Pass's wonderful amplifiers ( Threshold SA-1's, Aleph 1's, XA-60.5's, XA-60.8's, SET-2) and loved them all. Each generation of his great creations got better and came closer to what tubes have to offer in a solid state design, but tubes, particularly SET designs offer aspects (spatial qualities / 3D imaging / timbres/tonality) that even his wonderful transistor amps just can't quite provide. Therefore, the Pass Labs XA-60.8's comes in at third place behind the Triode Lab SET 2A3 and AricAudio SET KT-88 amps driving the Ulfberht's based on my personal taste.
However, I still have not heard a P/P 120 or 150 tube based amplifier that I have liked better then the XA-60.8's. The Pass Labs amplifier sounds more like a great tube ampilifier compared to the tube amps using this configuration and these tubes to my ears.
I'm still relatively shocked with what I'm hearing from Aric's SET KT-88 amplifier. It's a great combination of most of the color and palpability of a SET 300b with the slam/speed more like a 845 SET based amplifier. Never would I have imagined that a KT-88 could sound this way, but I never heard a SET design using this tube before. This is a great amplifier and very reasonably priced indeed! |
Just wanted to share,
My hunch all along was that the superlative sound I was getting with the Triode Lab SET 2A3 amplifier was based on the synergy between it and the Micro-ZOTL preamplifier. The 2A3 provided the timbres/colors, "meat on the bones" imaging and the ZOTL provided the dynamics/speed and the special spatial dimensions.
I now have tried running the 2A3 with three very good tube based line-stages on the Ulf's and the "magic" was greatly reduced in the areas of PRAT/speed, overall dynamics, and a much flatter sound-stage quality. So, this validates that it's the combo's synergy that gets you the magic I kept reporting.
I'm also coming to the conclusion that the AricAudio SET KT-120, with KT-88's instead of the stock 120's, is a better match for the Ulfberht's then the 2A3 amplifier. Aric's amplifier opens up the sound-staging ability of the Ulf's to a much higher degree and is very close, if not a clone, of the beautiful timbres/tonality of the 2A3 tube sound. Nothing is quiet as "wet" or colorful as the 2A3 sound, however with NOS RCA triple mica black plate 5751's as driver tubes and the JJ KT-88 blue glass tubes the AricAudio SET is not far off in these areas. The match of the Triode Lab/Micro-ZOTL is still my favorite for the DI's that seem to not struggle with this combo in the area of a total open sound-stage and disappearing in that sound-stage.
|
Hey Guys,
Today, Eric fine tuned the first pair of DI SE's that are going to Mike's (Audio Archon) customer/friend Ezra! The pair will be shipped out this Monday, so Ezra will have them towards the end of next week. I'm a lucky individual that I'll be able to hear the SI's because Ezra lives a couple of minutes away. I surly will let you all know what they sound like and can give you a good take where they fit in the Tekton stable of speakers because of my direct experience with the DI's and the Ulf's. I submitted my review on the Ulf's last week to hometheatereview.com and it should be published in about two weeks.
Ezra also has ordered from Aric (AricAudio) a pair of SET KT-88 mono-blocks with "cost no object" upgrades in all internal parts. The combination of the two Eric/Aric creations will be one "smoking system" that I strongly predict will produce beautiful music, indeed!
|
Ezra just put his order in with Aric to build his SET mono-blocks, therefore I'll bring both the SET 2A3 and SET KT-88 amps over to get my take on the SE's, until he gets his custom pair. |
Hey Grannyring,
Thanks for a very interesting field report! The two relatively minor criticisms of the DI's compared to your AZ Crescendo's, which I think are wonderful music makers that I have listened to many times, I believe are more based on grey9hound's room placement and upstream gear.
1) To have the DI's only 18 inches off the front wall would almost certainly negate them being able to produce a deep sound-stage or what you called depth in the sound-stage layering. I ran this experiment many times and to get the sound-staging/layering you were missing takes at least three feet off the front wall.
2) The DI's are more of a pure conduit then your Crescendo's which are voiced to be slightly warm/full, just like my old reference Lawrence Audio Cello's were, and what you were hearing in my opinion was the preamp and amplifier voicing not the DI's overall sonic signature. That's why my go to combo on the DI's, I think we have similar tastes, is either the Triode Labs SET 2A3 or the Aric Audio SET KT-88 driven by the Micro-ZOTL to get what you call, "more beautiful and lovely sound to my ears".
Sorry, there really is no P/P tube amplifier that gives you what a reference level SET provides in what you are referring to in your above quote. No offense to grey9hound's McIntosh MX151, however I find this preamp not to be very musical compared to other line-stages that I have auditioned.
In my professional review on the DI's one of the speakers I compared them to are your great Crescendo's that I love indeed, what you heard the DI's do better then the AZ speakers we agree on, the overall statement about not quite being as beautiful/lovely I believe is based more on the upstream gear then the DI's which are more neutral/transparent conduit then the AZ's and you heard the electronics more then the speakers.
|
Hey jcarcopo,
I never was riding a "high horse" but also believed that in a SET design to get the "inner glow", timbres/colors, liquidity and intimacy we all love you had to use 2A3/45/300b tubes. However, with AricAudio's SET which uses KT-88's I'm getting all those virtues plus better sound-staging and low end dynamics on the Ulf's then with other SET's using 2A3 or 300b tubes. |
Hey grannyring,
Between two old timers who have been at this a long time, we will agree to disagree regarding the DI's being, " just lean, on the forward/analytical side of things". I think they are dead on neutral and not in anyway analytical, that's way its so important what you drive them with.
Historically, I have disliked very much many of the Magico/YG Acoustic/Wilson speakers because I found them to be analytical and did "everything right" but make music, sound like music.
My reference of five years was the Cello's, which I believe are very close to the overall sonic signature of the AZ's, which I loved having in my system. Both the Cello's and Crescendo's are a smidgen "warm/sweet" which I like very much and I do not found them fat or euphonic in their performance. However, when I got the DI's tuned in both in room placement and what to drive them with I got all the musicality/beauty of my Cello's plus "aliveness" dynamics and speed with no edge at all and could not go back to my reference speakers any more with out missing what the DI's were providing.
A final note, I still have not heard a system, and I have heard many indeed, that I can really say that I thought was great that uses a room correction device. I totally accept that they can help greatly to overcome shortcomings in the acoustic space, and it might be significantly better then nothing at all in certain rooms, however they still do something I find slightly "artificial" to the music to my ears. Regardless, if its correction done to OB speaker designs, Legacy's device for their speakers, or general room correction it just does not "sound" like a great natural acoustic space to me.
|
Hey grannyring,
One more point I forgot to share is that it makes prefect sense to me way you can drive your AZ's without a tube in sight, and get the beauty you want in your system. The Crescendo's are slightly warm and full, therefore, the synergy you get with a more detailed/transparent upstream set of gear is a great balance. You "seasoned" to get what you wanted out of your system like a great chief uses different flavors to get the meal to taste the way they want. |
Hey jetter,
I'm always very mindful on my posts to be very respectful towards other GON members and never put things on a personal level. I'm blunt and clearly give my opinion and at times disagree with some one's viewpoint, but do not attack the person. So, were does your hyper-sensitivity come from stating my response to granny's take on the DI's was, "slightly over the top"? What do you base this on?
Of course the bottom line is that everything in audio is based on personal taste to begin with, than you try to add on objectivity based on experience and comparing different gear to each other. Here's a question for you? Have you heard with your own ears both the DI's and the AZ speakers in order to make sense of what grannyring and I slightly disagree on? If so, please share what your take is on this matter. I still think he's confusing utter transparency with a forward sound compared with his AZ's slightly warm/full presentation.
|
Hey mikirob,
Thanks for your kind words and disagreeing with jetter's comment about my post. The only reason I share and love to post here is that we all act like gentleman and have fun sharing and at times disagreeing with each other with no malice at all. |
Just wanted to share,
Since I had the great luck to become a professional reviewer about five years ago, one of the most rewarding/pleasurable aspects of this work has been seeking out boutique companies that cannot offered advertising or the "payola" needed to get their gear reviewed. I only took this reviewing job when I was assured of two things: 1) I had the freedom to approach any company I was interested in. 2) My reviews would never be censored because of other manufacturer's advertisements on the website.
Virtually all these boutique companies are owned by very creative artesian's who hand build beautiful gear with quality parts. My experience, with a very few exceptions, is that they are very good people who care about making the best equipment they can and having very satisfied customers. They tend not to be great "business people" because they do this work because of their love for music and the gear they create to produce it. Another aspect of these boutique saloon's are that they charge extremely reasonable prices for gear that out performs significantly much more expensive advertised equipment. (Think DI's at 3K)
I wrote some of the first reviews on the following companies gear that fit into this niche: Raven Audio, Backert Labs, Tekton Design, Linear Tube Audio, MG Cables, Role Audio, Krono Design, Triode Lab, AricAudio.
Because of the work of these gentleman the music lover can really put together a reference level system for the price of some power cords on the market today!
Just think, right now I'm driving the Ulf's that are superlative with the Micro-ZOTL/ AricAudio SET KT-88 amp to a level of performance that's just beautiful-yet the combo only costs $3,600.00.
|
Hey Grannyring,
I have a very strong assumption that your taste and mine are very similar in what we want our systems to sound like. Of course I want micro-details and an accurate rendering of the leading edge of the note, but not so sharp it cuts my ears, and I want the full body of the harmonic with natural color/timbres. My Cello's provided that to a wonderful degree and I have found your Crescendo's to have the same overall signature that's why they are one of my favorite speakers.
However, both speakers compared to the DI's and the Ulf's do not have the same speed/aliveness/prat that the Tekton's offer. When you shared how you were "tapping my feet & rocking my head" I found this harder and harder to do when I went back to my Cello's regardless with what I was driving them with. Now, here's were personal taste and synergy come in, I find it hard to imagine what the DI's would sound like with just OK solid state dacs (Benchmark) or solid state amps (Bryston) driving them. It would be a very unpleasant experience for me. The polar opposite would be driving either the Cello/Crescendo with overly warm, euphonic, old school tube gear, boy would that sound rotten because of their inherent warm/fullness would turn to slow and muddy.
I wish you could come to my home and hear the DI's/Ulf's with plenty of breathing room being driven with great NOS tubed SET amps, preamp, and DAC. You would then hear all the body and the lingering decays of the notes with that easy liquidity/flow, you won't feel rushed at all, that you experience with the AZ's plus the "aliveness" and kick that is lacking in both the Cello/Crescendo presentation of the music. As I stated above, I really wanted to keep my beloved Cello's of five years in the reference chair in my system, but the DI's matched all their beautiful tonality and warmth, with the right electronics, and the Cello's sounded kinda dead/wimpy regarding the dynamics/PRAT of the music, along with the DI's pulling a better disappearing act/sound-staging. |
Hey grey9hound,
I heard your MX151 in the context of total McIntosh system driving Sonus Faber speakers in a well set up room. To be frank, I'm not a fan of McIntosh gear and find their tube amps kinda grainy and not very refined sounding. Therefore, I did not hear your piece in isolation, but as a part of this total system.
Musicality to me is a very subjective term trying to convey that the overall timbres/colors, the 3D imaging of real instruments in space, and lastly that you can relax and emotionally relate to the music as it flows into your room is present when listening to a system. I do not get this experience with McIntosh preamps/amps, regardless of what speakers I have heard their gear with.
|
Hey grey9hound,
I would not describe my position as a "hater" of McIntosh gear. I have tried for at least twenty years to understand why listeners liked this brands house sound because I never got it. Many of my friends had McIntosh amplifiers driving Maggies, Thiels, B&Ws, Vandys, and virtually all them left this brand for either great SS like Pass Labs or other tube based gear from other companies.
Just like I never liked the house sound of Wilson speakers, which finally got rid of that lousy tweeter and replaced it with a silk dome in all their models, Magico, Y&G Acoustic these brands never appealed to how I experience music in the real world. Does this make me a "hater" I don't think so, but a listener who clearly knows his personal taste of likes and dislikes. And if you do not care for the brands that I find quite wonderful I would not label you a "hater" but someone with very a different sense of taste from mine. |
Hey Kenny,
I had talked to Aric earlier today and he shared that you had gotten the custom SET 2A3 amplifier you had him build for you. Please, when you have even a cursory take on it, let us know what you think! If your custom SET 2A3 amp lives up to what I'm hearing with Aric's amp in my house you should be in for a real treat! |
Hi Charlies,
It seems to me that what would be a perfect fit both $ and performance for jacarcopo's objectives would be Linear Tube Audio's Micro-ZOTL.
Do you agree? |
Hey david ten,
I talked to Eric yesterday and the first pair of SI's, which are Ezra's set, have been shipped and will arrive this Wednesday. Eric was extremely pleased about the performance of his new design. I will be going to Ezra's home to hear them and as soon as I have a take on them I'll post a "field report" on what I hear. |
Hey Gentlemen,
Here's my "field report" based on about three hours of listening to the first pair of DI SI's at Ezra's house this afternoon. Besides, Ezra the listening panel was composed of Mike (Audio Archon who unpacked and set them up), Alen (who first presented the DI's to the Chicago Audiophile Society), and Bob who has heard both the DI's & Ulf's and has great refined ears.
I heard the SI's being driven with a very good SS amplifier, the Micro-ZOTL as an Integrated, the Micro-ZOTL driving the Opera SET 2A3 amplifier, and a pair of Kronzilla tube reference amplifiers.
1) The SI's take the "house sound" of the DI's to a qualitative higher level of finesse and sophistication. This speaker offers the music even more effortlessly then the DI's. From top to bottom it's more silky/smooth and allows you to relax into the music more easily. It's just as "alive" and dynamic as the DI's, but smooth as butter.
2) The SI's have a more accurate bottom end without sounding "dry/analytical" and its integrated more fully with the the lower mid-range.
3) The SI's pull off the same "disappearing act" as the DI's and add even more precision in the location of the players in the sound-stage, along with the air/space between those players.
The DI's sound slightly, and I mean slightly, "rough around the edges" compared to the SI's.
Some quotes from the listening panel:
Ezra- tell people on the Gon that the SI's "smoked my 70K Sonus Faber Lilium speakers in every way!
Alen- if I did not own the DI's or SI's I would spend the extra money on the SI's because they are better across the board with more "polish" and much better bass. I still love my DI's there great, the SI's just take it to a higher level of performance.
Bob- What ever tiny little "edge/roughness" the DI's have is total gone! The SI's are lovely musical speakers that totally disappear and image as if they were tiny mini-monitors.
Mike- Yep, Eric pulled it off, all the virtues of the DI's with another level up of polish and elegance regarding tonality and ease of presentation.
I'm very lucky and spoiled that I have spent time with and reviewed all three of Eric's speakers except the SI's in the last six months. So, I know what the next question will be for many of you. Well, how do the SI's compare to the Ulf's?
PLEASE NOTE THIS: If you do not have a extremely large acoustic space or are willing to spend lot's of money on room treatments you would be wasting your $ because the SI's will out perform the Ulf's if you force them into a small acoustic space that the great majority of listeners have their systems in. By all means if you can get the Ulf's at least 4 to 6 feet off the front wall, at least 3 to 4 feet off the side walls, and have at least a 12 to 20 foot or higher ceiling, the Ulf's take the performance level of the SI's to even a higher level! ( My review for hometheaterreview.com should go active next week for all the details why Eric's next model up is a killer speaker). Otherwise, take the money you save and put it into your upstream gear because just like the DI's the SI's are conduits that clearly pass what you are feeding them.
|
Hey Charles,
Nope, Ezra's comment did not have one bit of hyperbole contained in it at all. He has owned historically some of the most expensive and highly regarded speakers on the market (YG Acoustics, Magico, Van Schweikert) and I have heard all them in his system. Not only did the SI's significantly out perform the Sonus Faber across the board, but with SI's in his system, this is the best overall sound I have ever heard in house. |
No body pointed out, gracefully, that I kept referring to the DI SE's as the "SI's". Well, of course I did not rename the speaker, but mistakenly got into the groove of using the wrong wording in the post regarding the field report on the SE's performance. Sorry about that!
Ezra, the owner of the SE's called me twice since I left his house because he could not stop listening to his system because of his pleasure/amazement of what the music sounds like now through his new SE's! It's pretty late here in the Chicago land area, but I would not be surprised if he's still listening with glee!
|
Hey mac48025,
You will not regret getting the SE's, they are a wonderful speaker. I'm equally excited for you getting back your ZOTL and your new "baby" Aric's SET KT-88 amplifier. You owe us a field report regrading this combo, indeed. Also let's no forget your CF hybrid reference DAC driving the whole system! |
Hey mac48025,
Congrats! I totally agree with you regarding: 1) Your description of how Aric's amp, being driven by the Micro-ZOTL delivers beautiful music through the DI's. It is by far the best combination I have heard on both the DI's and ULf's in my home. 2) Aric's a great guy and builds quality reference level gear and charges very reasonable prices.
AricAudio really belongs on the short list of one of the great bargains in high-end audio on the market today. |
Hey Everybody,
As I shared with Eric last week if anybody in the Chicago land area would like to hear the Ulfberht Speakers they are more then welcomed to my home to see/hear them. I'm a very busy fellow, but I will make the time for a visit if you are interested in hearing these big guys.
Just contact me through AudioGon and I'll get back to you. |
Hey david_ten,
Well, if "Rome" is going to fall, what better way then listening to great music! My home is 30 miles from downtown Chicago. |
Yes, baranyi (Bob) is correct regarding my personal favorites, here's a few more details:
1) AS I have stated before on this thread the combination of the LTA Micro-ZOTL and the Triode Labs SET 2A3 is my reference for either the DI's or the SE's. When I ran the experiment of driving the 2A3 with other preamps it became to "slow" and lost the speed/kick/dynamics that the Micro-ZOTL provides. But, the combo/synergy between the two is heavenly on the DI's/SE's.
2) However, on the Ulfberht's this combo still provided the beautiful tonality/timbres and "meat on the bone" 3D imaging, but the speakers themselves did not quite disappear in the sound-stage as the DI's did with this combo. However, with the Micro-ZOTL and Aric's SET KT-88 on the Ulf's these big monsters completely vanish like there smaller siblings.
3) Yes, I give up a very slight "romance/intimacy" in the mid-range, however, it's still very beautiful and then you get more precise imaging and as I mentioned the Ulf's do the disappearing act. My hunch is that its not the wattage between the two amps or the type of tubes, but that Aric's amp drops more current then the 2A3 amp which controls the Ulf's better. Remember the Ulf's are slightly more efficient then the DI's, so there not more power hungry,but there a lot more transducers to drive (total of 21).
|
I take it as a personal compliment when someone like Shadorne,regardless of his intent or motivation, puts me down as a reviewer.
Of course his statement proves I'm an idiot to sell off 19K speakers and get better performance for 3K!
Thank you, Shadorne |
Hey Guys,
Another possibility regarding a SET/2A3 design.
If I have my facts right, the 6b4g tube is an octal base more powerful version of the 2A3. It supposed to be a "twin" sonicly to the 2A3; however, in a SET design it creates 10 watts per channel!
I left a message already with Aric to see if he would be interested in building one. |
Hey Everybody,
My review on the Ulfberht Speakers just went up on hometheaterreview.com this morning. I hope you all enjoy reading it and that it clearly explains why it's the best speaker I ever have had in my house. Yes, I bought the pair! |
Hey muzikmann,
First, my name is spelled Teajay. Secondly, these three individuals shared this in confidence with me trusting I would keep their anonymity in the public domain. If these " horse's mouths" want to share with you, it's their decision not mine. |
Hey Grannyring,
Sorry about your health concerns, hope you get well soon.
I have spent many hours listening to standard, not modified AZ Cresendo Speakers and find them to be a wonderful musical speaker. If I had not purchased the Lawrence Audio Cello Speakers, which are just as musical and the equal of the AZ speakers, I would have considered buying a pair of Cresendo's for my reference system.
So, when you shared that the DI's are as good as a 20K speaker "is hyperbole in my humble opinion" with great vigor and passion I totally disagree with your position. I know I can be politically correct and go back to this all boils down to personal taste and a disagreement among gentleman. However, your statement represents to me the defensiveness of owners who can't accept that a very inexpensive product out performs their very expensive piece. I don't believe that the AZ speaker are any better then my Cello's, and before you retort that yours are modified and better-maybe so, and the standard DI's significantly out performed the Lawrence speaker in my system.
I also do not know what gear you drive your speakers with, I bring this up because I believe the AZ speakers are more for giving, they are slightly warm sounding overall, then the DI's, which are drop-dead neutral, and therefore this could also lead to different outcomes in tonality and bass response.
In my humble opinion, your statement is hyperbole regarding the hyperbole regarding what the Tekton speakers can compete with on the high-end market.
PS: There are at least three professional reviewers who have shared to me that they "are eating crow" because when they first read my review on the DI's they thought I was on the take or drinking laced Kool-Aid to say they were better then the Cello's, until they got to hear them with their own ears. All had reviewed or owned speakers above the 20K price range and admitted the DI's were at least as good or better then the much more expensive speakers.
|
Hey muzikmann,
Thanks for the advice to listen to some great music, I am already!
I don't know what your basing your perception on that I'm upset, but that's OK. If you mean I find statements that I disagree with somewhat annoying, including being accused of not telling the truth that's correct.
As I told Eric this morning regarding nay-sayers towards him and his speakers, which is a very tiny % of the members posting here:
The fleas will bite , but the caravan moves on. |
Hey muzikmann,
If you go back and read some of the exchanges regarding personal taste, synergy, placement of speakers and matching up different upstream gear to tune the DI's, you will see that this so-called "issue", is a non-issue, has been addressed already.
Yes, I have opinions, based on wide spread actual experience with SS or tube gear driving the DI's. Someone called me a McIntosh hater because I never liked the house sound of this companies gear. I never attacked on a personal basis anyone on this thread. I have clearly disagreed with others, but respectfully so.
To answer your question of course I can ask anybody respectfully regrading what they drive their DI's with because what they might think is a shortcoming of the speaker is really a possible flaw in their upstream gear.
By the way, what's your direct experience with the DI's? You seem to come across strongly regrading my opinions, what's your take on the DI's?
|
Hey Everybody,
Now that my review on Elfberht's has been posted I want to share some information on my experience with amplifiers driving them, along with the DI/DI SE's.
1) My favorite combo (s) on the DI/DI SE's are the LTA Micro-ZOTL / Triode Lab SET 2A3, retails for $3,900.00 and LTA Micro-ZOTL/ AricAudio SET KT-88, retails for $2,100.00. The 2A3 amplifier gives you a touch, and I do mean just a touch, more warmth and "meat on the bones" in the mid-range then the SET KT-88, which still has just a beautiful tonality in this very important frequency range, but Aric's SET KT-88 bests it in overall macro-dynamics and bass extension/control. If you only listen to acoustic music you will be thrilled with the 2A3 amplifier; however, if you listen to all kinds of music (rock, blues, heavy metal, big music pieces) along with acoustic jazz then I would recommend the SET KT-88 amplifier.
2) When I took the ZOTL/2A3 combo to power the Ulf's I still loved the tonality/colors, and image density. However there was a problem with the spatial dimensions regarding that the music seemed to be coming from just in front of speakers and lacking depth/width. The Ulf's did not do the magical disappearing act like its smaller siblings easily do. However, when I put the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier in the system I still got the great purity of tonality, 3D imaging of a SET design and then these big son of a gun speakers vanished in to a giant realistic layered sound-stage like a small reference level two way monitor does!
3) The only other SET amplifier that I auditioned that produced about the same level of performance across the board as Aric's SET KT-88 was a pair of SET 300b mono-blocks that retail for $9,000.00. To tube this amplifier "the right way" to get to this level of performance with NOS tubes, which I have in my own personal collection, would about another $1,500.00 for the pair. In Aric's amplifier to get great performance a pair of NOS RCA black plate triple mica 5751's, along with a pair of JJ Blue glass KT-88's comes out to about $200.00.
AS I stated on this thread already we have another Aric who goes on my short list of creative designers building high quality, great performing gear at such reasonable prices.
|
Hey Everybody,
Just wanted to share that I have in for review a product from Dignity Audio out of Hong Kong that is imported by TAS Audio located in Brooklyn NY. TAS Audio is owned/run by Allan who's a good guy and offers great products at very reasonable prices.
The product in for review is called the PPT-50 (power purifier transformer) which only can deliver around fifty watts, therefore you only use it with pre-amps, CD players, and DACS, not power amplifiers. It weighs around 2 pounds and has a nice black case with the on switch on the front plate and on the back plate one outlet for the power cord to your piece and another for the power cord to the wall socket.
I found more impact when I put it on the Micro-ZOTL, using Audio Archon power cords, then my CF-010 DAC. It added a touch of more air around individual players, a slightly larger sound-stage with more space between players, and added a smidgen of image density. It did no harm, but added on these postive changes. Not a sonic earthquake, but when I took it out I missed what it was doing and put it back in.
Now, the PPT-50 costs a whopping $150.00 plus shipping, with a two week trial period! I have spent more on NOS tubes with less of a positive change. I have a hunch, since my pre-amp and DAC are tube based the positive changes I heard might be even greater if your front end is solid state. Either way I'm keeping mine because of what I shared above.
As stated before the Elf's and DI's are conduits, so any changes upstream will be easily heard through them. Highly recommended!
|
Hey Tom,
I believe you are in for a real sonic "treat" with your customized SET 300b amplifier from Aric. We talked last week and after he told me what parts you guys put into it and what he was hearing doing testing/burn-in you wouldn't be disappointed!
|
Hey everybody,
Just wanted to restate and clarify my past experimenting with amplifiers driving the Double Impacts and Ulfberhts and add on a new amplifier which has become my new solid state reference in my system.
First, it all boils down to a combination of synergy and personal taste of what we want our systems to sound like. I have listened to three of the most highly regarded D amplifiers (Merrill/Mola-Mola/Devialent) and still am not impressed by what they have to offer. I find them to be great Hi-Fi that does a lot of things right, except make music. So, with respect to the many posters on this thread that love the sound of their DI's being driven with class D amplifiers, my amplifier list might not be your "cup of sonic tea".
All the amplifiers that I will list were driven with the LTA Micro-ZOTL preamplifier.
On the DI's, when I had them in for review, there is no doubt that my favorite amplifier was the Triode Lab SET 2A3 piece. It offered the most beautiful combination of tonality, 3D imaging, sweet top end, and excellent bass.
However, on the Ulfberht's, still don't really know why, the spatial aspects suffered when the Triode Lab amplifier was in the system. It was if the music was "stuck" on the front of the speaker. The DI's when driven by this amplifier completely disappeared in a giant sound-stage. The two best tube amplifiers driving the DI's very big brother are:
1) AricAudio's standard, with no upgrades, SET KT-88 amplifier is simply a superlative match with this speaker that does everything right across the sonic board.
2) Canary Audio's M-80 SET 300b mono-blocks are another beautiful match with the Ulf's, driving them on all parameters to a reference level.
The very big difference between these two amplifiers is the price. Aric's amplifier, retails for around $2,300.00 and the Canary Audio's pair, retails for $9,000.00. That's way I consider Aric's amplifier, very much like the DI's themselves, one of the great bargains in high-end audio. When you figure in build quality, performance vs cost ratio it's a terrific purchase.
Finally, I have had the great pleasure of auditioning for reviewing proposes, what I now consider the best solid state amplifier I have ever heard, driving the Ulfberht's the last two weeks. The Pass Labs XA-25 is an amazing piece! I would still swear that I'm listening to a great SET tube based amplifier based on how it renders timbres/tonality, the amount of air/space/3D-imaging it produces, and a sweet airy top end, but it's the quietest amplifier I have ever had in my system and is extremely fast and dynamic with great bass control. My reference solid state amplifiers for the last four years has been the wonderful Pass Labs XA-60.8 mono-blocks. However, for my tastes these great amps were out performed by the XA-25, which uses a very different design compared to the .8 series amplifiers. Extrapolating from the Ulf's to the DI's this could be an amplifier you might want to hear in your system. The brilliant Nelson Pass figured out how to use a type of transistor that had never before been used for audio proposes and the XA-25 delivers 50 Watts Class A into 4 ohms and it can drop 200 Watts Class A/B into 2 ohms. The amp only uses two transistors per channel. It retails for $4,900.00. My formal reviews on the Pass Labs XA-25 and the AricAudio SET KT-88 will be published on hometheatereview.com, hopefully before the end of the year. |
