@xenophon +1 on your "piping up" as you put it! Great to have you on board with the DIs and also contributing here. Keep up posted on developments. BTW, what are the amplification components you are "lusting after?"
@jcarcopo Congratulations on the Mini-Ulfs. REALLY looking forward to your impressions once they have settled into your system. The Diavolo's 13 Watts should be more than enough, and when they aren't you've got the perfect replacements! All the best with settling the refund. |
@xenophon Congratulations on your choice to go tubed and also Aric Audio all the way!!! I just pulled up Aric's website and it's wonderful to see how he has expanded his component offerings and the wide array chassis aesthetics over the past nine months.
@jcarcopo Do you have more specifics on the Mini-Ulfs? Differences versus the SEs? Thanks. |
@audiosens I (believe) you are asking whether the ’Tekton Impact’ speakers image and soundstage and layer/separate musical information? If so, YES.
I doubt there would be a Tekton DI thread if they did not do this across different systems. I will note that all of this is system relative, i.e. the DIs will do justice to what is ahead, relative to the strengths and weaknesses of what’s ahead of them.
@343mps Image is not present when the link is clicked.
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I think @mofojo also had Odyssey.
Also, didn't someone have trouble with Odyssey or am I thinking of another brand? |
Very nice! A different ’large’ driver arrangement and front port placement than the Ulfberths. |
Thanks to @hobbyhands for this post, on another thread, of the Mini Ulfberth (? not named yet ?) which @jcarcopo is receiving. "You might also want to see this speaker just went up. I drove down to Tekton and got to hear it. It’s a little larger than the DI, but definitely smaller than the Ulfberht." http://www.tektondesign.com/new.html |
@snovosel Awesome that you are trying the DIs out. What are some of the ’other [speaker] candidates’ you have ’brought in?’
The DIs are really versatile with amplification which is why you find folks driving theirs with a wide assortment of both tubed and solid state amplification.
I would start with the amplification type / level / brand etc that you prefer and are familiar it.
You haven’t said what you have been using...sharing that will be helpful for DI owners to provide more specific feedback. Sharing your room size, preferences, etc. will also help.
I personally feel that the DIs do best with some power, though others are quite happy with SET amps and have driven them to satisfaction with just a few watts per channel. I’ve driven them with both tubes and solid state gear ranging from (into 4 Ohms) 40 watts up to 500 watts (my current amp). Despite leaning and now being fully vested in solid state, my first/initial recommendation is to pair tubed components with the DIs, should that be an option.
Take advantage of the full 60 day trial, and run them as much as you can the first few weeks. |
@snovosel Thanks for the additional information. It provides a ton of context and feel for your priorities.
Spatial Audio was also under consideration when I went with the Double Impacts. The only head to head in-home comparison I made was with Volti Audio Rivals (which are terrific speakers).
Your approach is commendable and I, and I am sure others, look forward to learning about your takeaways and comparative findings.
This may sound ’different or unusual’ but I’ve been able to take the SEs out of the equation and focus on what’s upstream. It’s a statement of faith in and commitment to, and a testament to how good the SEs are. In other words, I don’t think about the SEs...I hope those reading understand what I’m trying to communicate.
The reason for sharing the above is to point out the value in being able to focus on all that is ahead of the SEs (and the DIs) and to answer your original post on amplification pairings.
Your Primaluna separates will pair well!!! However,...
....if you can borrow or loan amps from audio friends or dealers, I would experiment to get a feel for how the different amps work within your system. I think you will find that once you have a week or two on the DIs they will showcase the differences between your current setup and anything else you bring in. I also recommend running LF sections from movie soundtracks to get a feel for the bass.
I realize, from your post, that you may not be into cables...however, in my experience (thanks to @dlcockrum for assisting me in this area) I found that cabling did help demonstrably with BASS response (and in a number of other areas).
I did see your specific thread on the Pass XA-25 (I have the XA-30.8) vs the Zotl40. Given how new the XA-25 is, and the fact that both amps lean towards being more ’cognoscenti’ amps I doubt you will get much direct and especially head to head comparative feedback. Your best bet is to reach out directly via PM to Terry @teajay who has been very open and generous in his support. |
@snovosel Regarding cabling...search the Forum for a number of current and ongoing discussions (many on reasonably priced cabling), including threads that are not active.
Additionally, reach out to those using your Prima Luna and front end components for recommendations.
Many decent options at reasonable prices...but it will require some experimenting on your part to find the right pairings within your system. |
@sbayne Keep hounding me on posting my system...it's been helping me get closer to doing so. You're a good role model...I need to get busy with the 'modeling' part. : )
BTW, if you haven't checked out Scott's system page I encourage you to take a look. He updates on a regular basis and following the progression is interesting and educational.
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Chet Baker/Bill Evans, Joni Mitchell, Jason Mraz, Dave Brubeck, Stephen Stills, Jason Isbel, Father John Misty; all just brought my room to life through the Tektons like we'd never heard before. @jbomber Sounds like happiness. : ) |
@craigl59 I tested the GAIA IIs with the DIs and SEs. The DIs come in under the weight specs and the SEs right at the outer limit.
I also wanted to save the price differential between the two, but in either case my recommendation would be to go with the GAIA Is. |
The Gaia IIs were what I tried. I didn't get the 1 because of the doubling of price, but if you are going to go the Gaia route I think that the 1 is the best and right option for the DI as well as the heavier SE.
I did not perceive any real differences or upsides with the Gaia II vs my doubled Herbie 'sandwich' setup. |
@craigl59 Star Sound is one of my top choices also, but it is tippy which is why I did not go with it (due to our young son). It is an excellent option, otherwise.
I just added a photo to my system page so you can see my Herbie ’solution’ with the DIs vs. the SE’s with the GAIA IIs (notice the compression on the GAIAs...also NOTE that the SEs are just above the weight specs for the IIs).
BTW, thanks to @sbayne for encouraging me to post details on my system...which I did today (basic info). |
@craigl59 Thank you. The platform between the two sets of gliders is a TAOC shelf, which I had as extras from an older audio rack.
Star Sound is terrific to work with and I encourage you to reach out to them to see if they can offer a more stable Spaniel-proof solution. |
@grey9hound Are you using the HDMI cables for video also? Is so, upsides?
@totalwex All the best in the choice between the two.
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@grey9hound Thanks. I don't need hdmi for audio at present, but I will keep Purist in mind if I do. |
For those of you who are streaming Tidal / Roon, and may have interest, I've ordered a Small Green Computer 'sonicTransporter i7 for Roon DSP.' This will replace my full-on SGC streamer/ ripper/ server.
It will allow me to eliminate the Network Switch as it bridges Ethernet and allows for a direct LAN connection to a player (or DAC). In my system that is the Sonore Signature Rendu SE. The other option I considered was the Antipodes CX.
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@teajay Thanks for the update on Azra’s Ulfberth BEs and importantly on the clarification that they are fresh out of the box, including his T+A amp, and the room and your personal system differences. It’s really important to know that.
Looking forward to your report on the BEs and Azra’s system in a couple of weeks.
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Remember, both versions of the ULf’s and the DI’s are conduits that purely let the upstream gear to present it’s sonic voice. @teajay To your above point, I find it absolutely remarkable that the SEs were able to differentiate between two USB Type C DC power cable setups to my Router. Impressive, indeed. |
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An update regarding: For those of you who are streaming Tidal / Roon, and may have interest, I've ordered a Small Green Computer 'sonicTransporter i7 for Roon DSP.' This will replace my full-on SGC streamer/ ripper/ server.
It will allow me to eliminate the Network Switch as it bridges Ethernet and allows for a direct LAN connection to a player (or DAC). In my system that is the Sonore Signature Rendu SE. The other option I considered was the Antipodes CX. The Small Green Computer sonicTransporter i7 for Roon DSP (only) run direct from the Router and then direct to my Player.... The result of eliminating the Network Switch and one LAN cable: Remarkable comes to mind and it's synonyms: Astonishing, Marvelous, Wonderful, Incredible, Amazing. : ) I'll be testing with an LAN filter and LAN cable variations. More to come. |
@kristofa Others that have the DIs should chime in as I am going off memory. Mine were not color coded. There was a + / - 'label' on the plastic housing around the binding posts. I would not describe the posts as dull copper, but they were not shiny either. Certainly NO oxidation. Hope that helps. |
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@teajay Terry, thank you for sharing your thoughts on today's listening session. Your comparative points between the two versions of the Ulfberths are helpful! I've got to make that trip to Chicago and hopefully have the chance to listen to both of your systems.
Any word on whether you will be getting one of the newer versions / variants in for a review within your space and system? |
@jcarcopo Fantastic news and results! Congratulations on being the first owner of the Encore. Looking forward to hearing more about these speakers, how they respond to your differing amplification, and differences from the DIs.
The fact that you were up past 3am speaks volumes! |
To BE or not to BE, that is the question... : )
@teajay and @aolprodj : ) Could not resist nor pass it up. : ) |
@aolprodj Thanks for sharing your take on the differences. As I mentioned in a previous post, I need to get to Chicago for a listen.
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Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul. Invictus, William Ernest Henley. "We are still masters of our fate. We still are captains of our souls." And apparently [We still set the bar for embarrassment.] Quote above: Winston Churchill 9/9/1941 paraphrasing with my addition. : ) |
I vote for our awesome foursome amigos to schedule more play dates and pillow fights.
What each of you has shared has been helpful and more informative than usual. I, for one, am grateful. Good stuff...thank you! |
@jcarcopo It's the number of posts that get's you there, not the length. In accordance I have added one to meet your wishes that much sooner. : ) |
@jcarcopo Thank you for sharing your impressions of the very first Encores and their response to amplification components.
BTW, three posts in an effort to help out. Six more posts and you'll be on page 100. |
@craigl59 @jcarcopo I'll be writing up a 'journey' review which will, among other things, shine a spotlight on why I chose solid state and more power for my system. I believe it will address some of the things you have been working on and trying to achieve. It's been really nice learning more about what each of you has worked through and is trying to accomplish.
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@charles1dad Agreed. Agreed. And Agreed some more. : )
I'm glad you brought up Break In. Important point.
I believe it's also worth considering the following: As one (in this case @jcarcopo ) becomes intimately familiar with his Encores and how they 'illuminate / represent' his system, a realization of (soft) 'deficiencies' in one's system will also be highlighted. As will System Potential.
And we all know what that means. : ) |
In @jcarcopo 's case, I believe it will be more about finding the correct balance (vs 'upgrading'). Break in was significant, and lengthy, with my SEs. If that holds to some degree with the Encores, as you say, time will tell.
My point is general in nature. My system is 100% different than when I had the Double Impacts. I believe Tom's ( @mac48025 ) system is as well (or close it). I see a similar pattern with other SE owners (not 100% correlation, of course, but quite high).
Mentioning this for those considering moving up from the Double Impacts or those making their first DI vs. SE / Encore / Ulfberth purchase.
In other words, if you are tempted, know what's likely ahead on that beautiful, wonderful path.
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@jcarcopo It's my understanding that El Diablo seduces with what you want to hear, in the now.
Charles is the guy you got to be concerned with!!! 😂
Truth be told, it's actually a joint effort to get to 5K with gusto. 😉 |
Charles, I will defer to Jonathan on what he considers a ’significant’ movement from where he was with his Double Impacts to where he gets to with his Encores.
For me, a cable loom change is greater than a component change because it is a system wide change, and across multiple components. My perspective. I don't know where Jonathan falls on the cable spectrum. |
Friendly (and delicious) wager with Charles and Jonathan.
I'd love to hear back on @jcarcopo 's findings after a full two months of break in and time spent getting to know his Encore's intimately.
He has already rolled in the Emission Labs 300b XLS tubes (replacing his Elrogs) and he's already testing the waters between the Nords and the Art Audio...and is finding differences in preference and responding to them, all within three days of the speakers being setup.
Let's do a 'reverse' wager and a delicious one:
If you have to eat 'crow' so to speak, I'll send you both packages of Etouffee and Jambalaya.
If I have to eat 'crow' then something delicious and representative from Raleigh and Detroit.
Can we commit to September 15th?
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Charles. Yes, all in good fun. I obviously will do anything to score a tasty meal. 😊 |
Reminds me of my Corporate Days. Leave a meeting to sign off on a sale, and the guys do their best to slip something by me. Tonight it was dinner for family! 😊 I agree, it’s for Jonathan to decide. My reference point would be where he was with the Double Impacts and where he gets to, OR has committed to, at the two month mark. Both of you are generally in the camp that ’nothing’ is going to change as evidenced here: I side with @charles1dad I tend to find a happy delta which I believe I have attained. I’m definitely caught up on all my upgrades. I’ve found tube guys to be ’tricky’ with what they consider ’no change.’ 😊 More appropriately labelled ’benign denial.’ 😄 For me, again for reference: going from 8wpc to 13wpc, a 62% increase in power per channel, along with an outright change in tubes is a notable adjustment, without even considering the cost of doing so. This has already happened. For me this would be ’akin’ to my changing the power cable to my primary source, my USB cable from it and swapping out isolation devices (as an example). I would consider this a ’significant’ change. Baseline is today and as I said, this is a friendly wager with Jonathan in the driver’s seat. Guys, I want to lose...it means a free and hopefully tasty meal. Though I have no idea how fried okra travels. 🤨 |
@craigl59 It wasn't by plan. Waltersalas broke the 5K barrier and the start of page 101 and duly deserves the credit. |
@porscheracer Great to have you pop in again and for sharing your updated system components. Can't beat: This setup sounds absolutely stunning I've posted this previously, but sharing since we have some similarities in our system's front end. I replaced my sonicTransporter AP with an i7 Kaby Lake Roon DSP (only) unit (Small Green Computer) which also allows for ethernet bridging. |
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@porscheracer The Small Green Computer products are terrific performance-wise and a great value.
I went through a lengthy audition phase with amps. I settled on the T+A PA 3100 HV solid state integrated amp.
This was after comparing against my Pass Separates (which I am holding on to, for now), Mastersound Evo 845 tubed integrated, Ypsilon Phaethon hybrid integrated and the Lyric Ti140 Mk2 tubed integrated (which I owned but have traded in). I wasn't able to demo / audition the Vitus SIA-025, Gryphon 300, and Grandinote Essenza.
The Lyric was running KT150s at 70wpc. Very similar to your KT120's 65 wpc. |
Thanks for the clarification on the tube type.
Nice to see so many in a "pretty good place right now." A fantastic outcome for those that are enjoying their systems via their Tekton speaker of choice.
The amp was a massive stretch for me, despite the cost being equivalent to the Pass separates when I factored in the two extra cables and additional isolation platform. Even more so as I am still holding on to the Pass separates.
My system is closing in on being complete. Some finishing touches remain. It's good having found a fundamental component in the amp.
Hopefully a few of our thread members can make it down here and listen for themselves. I believe the T+A amp is a very special product. |
@jcarcopo ...nothing short of amazing! I’m in heaven. +1 +1 +1 LOVE hearing this! Congratulations (once again) on taking that leap with the Encores!!! I can only imagine how Eric feels when he hears this kind of feedback on one of his latest creations. |
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Reporting on what others have and what @teajay very recently put so succinctly into words (from his post on 7/9): Both Ulf’s, along with the DI SE’s, are complete pure conduits that put out exactly what you put into them. ...focus on "Pure Conduits"... In addition to an upgraded server with bridged ethernet, I added new LAN cables + filter from router to server and a new DC cable from the LPS to the router. System performance has take another leap forward. Despite initially being overtly full bodied and weighty (more so than I prefer but likely to others’ preferences), it is settling into a balance best described as more ’correct’ and ’natural’ (to me) than with the previous cabling, and lack of filter, in the same chain. This is five days in. The Encores should of course be added to above because, based on @jcaropo ’s early feedback, all indications are that they deliver the same. |
@lancelock +1 and so true. I think my DI SE and LTA amps can compete now. Just sayin. BTW, I'd love to hear your LTA- SE combination / system in person!!! |
