glupson
Ric Shultz’s results, whoever he is, have nothing to do with mine. Mine are correct.
I may be a lone wolf on this topic here, but so are Michael Green and Ric Shulz (again, not to offend a person, but I do not think we ever met) in the grand scheme of things. Their results are, based on my observation, questionable at best. I say so and it is the fact.
Anybody who disputes my results, do what original post suggested. Take the cover off and you will have your own results. Then believe them, not some authority of religious importance.
>>>>>Fair enough. Let me point out, though, that the problem is when you insinuate your results are the results everyone should get, as if your results somehow mean anything. As I’ve oft opined, positive results have more meaning than negative results for the simple reason they were obtained IN SPITE OF ALL THE THINGS THAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG. There’s also the preponderance of the evidence, which is clearly in favor of covers off, unfortunately for your protestations.
Now, would it be fair to say your “honest and sincere” results of experimenting with removing the cover were the result of (pick one or more)?
1. Operator error
2. Having all thumbs
3. Having a system incapable of revealing differences
4. Having errors in the system
5. Having some undiagnosed hearing difficulties
6. Psychological bias
7. You picked a day to experiment when the weather was bad
8. You picked a day when the power grid was overloaded
9. You picked a day when there was unusually high solar flare activity |
prof,
What with all the folks with all thumbs and psychological obstacles to overcome here it’s actually more like the Seinfeld episode in which the primary characters all have look-a-likes in the Bizzaro world, you know, who can’t seem to do anything right. It’s also a lot like the movie Prometheus in which David the Super Intelligent but tactful Android has to endure the barbs of the overly suspicious and not too swift crew. “It’s not minding that it hurts.” A quote David appropriated from Lawrence of Arabia, similar circumstances.
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I clicked on the link to the case study posted earlier today and got a message something to the effect server not found.
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glupson
At the same time, all of the above points may be true for any reviewer. Michael Green, audio magazines, me, anyone. Nobody should have the right to say she/he is better than the other one. My approach in such an even situation is that I will trust my ears more than someone’s who has significant investment in the problem. I may be wrong, but so may others.
>>>>Huh? Of course they’re true for everyone, including reviewers. I’m not singling you out. Geez. Are you pretending to be thick again? The long list of reasons why tests can possibly go wrong means you can not (rpt not) believe negative results from anyone, including reviewers. That’s kind of the whole point. And as I said before positive results are more believable because they were positive despite the obstacles. Follow? |
Sorry, no offense, glupson, but you still don’t get it. If you are pretending to be dense you’re doing an excellent job. I never said all positive results are valid. There are possible reasons why not. Unfortunately for your argument those reasons cannot be applied to all positive results. Thus your negative results are not on the same level as MGs positive results. Remember, if you have a memory left, it’s the preponderance of the evidence that is important, not a single data point. You are not a peer, although it appears you desperately wish to be considered one. It’s the same with aftermarket fuses. Those 70,000 satisfied customers don’t care if there are a few obstreperous and argumentative dudes out there who did not get good results. That’s kind of the way the cookie crumbles. 🍪
OK, now we have definition no. 1 of Troll. An argumentative poster who argues until he’s blue in the face. Were you a blue baby? 😨
Are you familiar with the story of Br’er Rabbit 🐇 and the Tar Baby?
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glupson
Those 70,000 satisfied customers don’t care if there are a few obstreperous and argumentative dudes out there who did not get good results.
Other few (7 000 000 000) are laughing.
>>>>Which brings us to definitions no. 2 and no. 3 for Troll:
2. You can almost always ID a troll by observing that he responds to any post that mentions him, even when the post he responds to demands no answer or when nothing can be gained by responding. Just as surely as he will respond to this one. Ho, hum....
3. Another defining characteristic of the hot to trot Troll is his almost complete lack of humor, as demonstrated in glupson’s last posts. Well, really nearly all of them. I mean, come on, people. If you’re going to make wisecracks at least try to make them funny. 😩
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glupson, I hereby bestow upon you the Laughing Cow award for funniest posts of the week.🐮
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Earth to glupson:
Capacitors? What the ding dong? Perhaps you meant Space Cadets. 👨🚀
Thanks for being such a good sport. |
glupson, are you high? We’re going to need a squeegee to get you down from the ceiling. The reason I mentioned fuses is because it’s the same idea. You throw out the outliers. Like you. Earth to glupson! Hel-loo! 👨🚀
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glupson wrote, My case, point by point. 1. Actual disassembling of the amplifier was so simple that it left no room for error. Cover off and out of the room (I actually did that on purpose). 2. I used the fist around the screwdriver. Otherwise, I am not the best for the finest fine motor work, but this required nothing of that kind. >>>>Did you disconnect any cables or power cord before removing the cover? 3. The whole point is that even the lousiest system can reveal differences. That is why tweaking is done, I think, and old Sherwood receivers and similar items used. Mine is nothing spectacular, but it works in general. It shows differences when a piece is changed. >>>>>>I’ll be the judge of that. Your opinion is kinda irrelevant. Works in general is not what we call ready for Prime Time. We are throwing your results out. 4. Everything seemed to be working as expected. No hum, buzz, nothing unusual. >>>>>>Well, working as YOU expected. See the problem? 5. I doubt that, although it is of course possible. I hear all the frequencies with a small dip in acuity at 14000 or 15000 Hz (I forgot which one it was about two months ago) and have no hair over the ears. >>>>>Of course hearing as a skill has very little to do with frequency response. Especially a self appointed anti audiophile. This is obviously your first rodeo. It’s not mine. 🤠 6. That one is hard to measure, but I, in fact, wanted to hear the difference. If anything, I was more biased towards confirming than rejecting the hypothesis. Aside of that, there was another pair of ears (much younger and completely unbiased, practically not even being aware of this thread) that also could not hear any difference. I have left that fact out until now to be one to one level comparison. >>>>>Whatver. 7. The day was beautiful. Points 8 and 9 are impossible to evaluate for an ordinary person. Tuneland experts and me included. We have to assume that those were equal at the time of testing. Next stop Bora Bora. Everything sounds better when the floor is of volcanic origin. Much better than maple. >>>>>Keep a log. Solar flare and sunspot activity is undated daily on: https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/solar-activityObviously folks would rather sweep this issue under the carpet. quick summary: pretend all the variables don’t exist. Then demand your negative results count as much as positive results. |
Uh, demands for proof and demands for measurements are the tools of the obstreperous and irascible troll. Whether trolls think of themselves as trolls is a philosophical question which is worthy of a thread all by itself. Of course, trolls portray themselves as honest law abiding skeptics, devil’s advocates or a friendly helpers just trying to provide positive criticism. Trying to rid the world of scammers, hoaxsters, charlatans, purveyors of the paranormal, Quantum shysters and evil doers. Protectors of the realms of decency, Science, and religion. Kind of the George Bushes of the audio world, if you will. On a campaign, a crusade, to exterminate anyone who looks cross-eyed at them. 🏰
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Inside every mild mannered pseudo skeptic is an angry snarky troll dying to get out. The pretense of not finding answers to your questions is touching. But it has become your only mantra. If skeptics really wanted to know something they would have taken the trouble to find out a long time ago.
I have not mentioned my products but thanks for including them in your so-called rant. Guess you’re out of ammo again. Gee, I was expecting a tan and rested professor. Instead I get Manfred Milktoast.
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Gosh, jitter, you’re so copiously smart. I am bathing in your copious logic.
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How did the professor get so damn smart? It’s astounding! It’s delightful! It’s Super Fragilistic Expialidocious!! We should be asking him questions.
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glupson
geoffkait: “Kind of the George Bushes of the audio world,..."
Planck, Einstein, Kim Jong Un, and now we have a newcomer on this thread.
How do I seriously show this to anyone and claim it is a thread on an audio reproduction forum?
>>>>You have a very limited view of audio forums in particular and the internet in general, or so it would appear. Of course, you could be faking. If you are faking you’re doing an excellent job!
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glupson wrote,
“As far as hearing goes, it is not a skill. Hearing is a sense that most of the people are born with.”
>>>I was pretty sure that would go over your head as soon as I said it. What have I learned? I’ve learned I really enjoying interacting with clean slates. 😳
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glupson geoffkait, >>>>>Keep a log. Solar flare and sunspot activity is undated daily on: https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/solar-activityDespite our differences, I am glad that you found the link I provided for you helpful. However, I thought it gets updated daily. >>>>Huh? I’ve been providing the link to spaceweather.com here for at least 15 years. Your log’s pages are empty, Mr. Clean Slate. |
While your smug sarcasm and keen psychological analysis is sort of an improvement to your usual droning and whining in terms of entertainment value I’m still not sure I completely understand exactly why you’re still here. You’re kind of like the dude who gets emotionally involved on a Football forum who doesn’t even like football or know the rules of the game. I suspect all you have left in the chamber are more personal attacks and idle questions. When you can’t win the technical arguments you huff and puff and try to win the personal arguments. Bring it on!
I trust I will not be billed for your psychoanalysis. |
grannyring
My system is posted on Tuneland. I genuinely wanted to learn more about this tuning thing. Thus far all I have learned is that Tuneland is a very sleepy place and no ideas or help thus far. Heck, I tried to purchase some tone-wood footers and could not even get that done. Seems little talk and no walk. Not impressed. I am most open minded and like to learn how others obtain great sound. Seems Tuneland has nothing to offer but vague language and strangly cluttered listening spaces.
>>>While I have not gone to Tuneland so can’t comment I do think that these days Audiogon is very active compared to most if not all other audio forums, with a wide range of topics and deep analysis of just about anything you can think of. Many audio sites that were once very active are dead or dying. There is no substitute for Action, gentle readers. All you often need to learn how to obtain great sound is right here in your own back yard. Playing hard to get ne’er won fair maiden.
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prof
That’s too bad grannyring. You certainly struck me as sincere in being open to Tuning.
Though I doubt anyone who visits Tuneland will be much surprised. Michael Green’s posts on Agon foretell what you would likely find there. It’s long on talk...but with very little substance or precision. Mostly just self-promotion posts by MG from what I can see.
>>>>Translation - There no measurements. AND if there are any measurements they’re not to within 0.1 dB or 1 Hz or out to 3 MHz or whatever. Whatever that would even mean. In other words, Substance = measurements. Precision = measurements. Measurements, you know, the things for people who can’t hear and Doubting Thomases. Or Doubting Glupsons. No, glupson I don’t mean the hearing you’re born with.
The demands for measurements and proof continueth unabated, gentle readers. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck...oh, never mind. |
glupson
grannyring,
Wow. So simple and so to the point.
>>>>There is an excellent joke there but I shall spare you, gentle readers.
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I see. Nothing at all to do with audio systems and seismic vibration. Oh, I almost forgot! You dudes don’t think isolation is possible. 😳 |
Uh, most likely he uses a different moniker over there. You know, so guys like yourself and the dudes from Star Sound can’t go stalk him there. Just a hunch. |
Got me good there, Tom. I win the important things. I’ll let you win the unimportant ones. I can always tell when you get all fidgety. You respond too quickly. You’re so emotional. 😩 |
theaudiotweak
Your wrong Geoff...her patent is related and direct coupled back to audio..So called isolation devices such as yours actually generate interfering energy. Sorry you have been wrong all these years. Tom
>>>>Oh brother! Here come the word games. Directly coupled. Yuk, yuk! Well, I guess all seismologists can’t be geniuses. Besides, I haven’t been wrong since 1987.
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What kind of a thread is it? A thread like all threads that alter and illuminate our times. Revel in your times! his is the only active audio forum you got. Contribute or perish. Please don’t turn this into fuddy-duddyville.
Poor Tom: always trying to get the last word in before scurrying off.
Life is what you make it. - Fresh out of Borstal
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glupson
jf47t,
Thanks for stopping it. I cannot care less if you call me a dinosaur troll of the first order, but I do get bothered by such insidious insults on other people that you allegedly tried to help.
>>>>Whoa! What? First of all I’m not entirely sure “insidious insults on other people” is good English but what in the wide world of sports are you even talking about? What’s bothering Gilbert Grape? Come on, you can tell us. 😁
Dinosaur troll? Let me think about it and I’ll get back to you. 🙄 |
prof
Everybody: Welcome to the "faker/talker/troll" club now, I guess ;-)
Too bad MG won’t ever let himself acknowledge I (or others he’s called trolls) may have sincerely said or asked anything reasonable. But he went down the "you’re a faker/troll" route early and hard, and apparently pride won’t let him back out. Ah well....
>>>>I suspect prof and others took MGs words to heart from the get go and responded accordingly. You could say he baited you and you took the bait. In that sense he did an excellent job. Is MG a fish whisperer? 🐟🐠🐟 Is he a fisher of men? 😯
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Uh, oh, it looks like another wave of blah blah blah from one of the primary baitees. 🐟
Pop quiz - Is baitees even a word? 😳
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I’m pretty sure you meant from one of the primary baiters. Dare I say master? |
Ah, the pupil uses the teacher’s thread to rant and rave and promote his rather backward ideas at every opportunity. Ooops, I hope I’m not a baiter. 😳
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glupson
geoffkait,
"Besides, I haven’t been wrong since 1987."
The calender has been reset to 2018. You have stated that I must be Scandinavian. I am not, as we have discussed at that time.
I hope this adjustment will, over time, help you gain some much-needed credibility.
>>>>I’m sure you misunderstood me. What I might have said was you must be from Fin Land. You know, where all the little fishies live. 🐟 🐟 🐟
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Why would the dudes from Star Sound go to Tuneland to stalk MG since they’re doing an excellent job stalking him right here, you know, where their ranting and raving and self promotion has a much wider audience? You catch more fish in a big pool. In space no one can hear you scream.
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wcfeil
Very shortly this will approach the TaraLabs cable thread as the biggest space waster in the forums.
>>>>>Oh, yeah, that’s not complaining. That’s an observation. What was I thinking? 🙄 |
I said this thread would be fun but I didn’t say for who. I had no idea it would turn into a whiners convention. If you don’t like the way something is going or whatever the best courses of action are to (1) avoid it if it makes you angry or you find yourself making dog-like noises or (2) contribute something of substance or try making a joke sometime. Geez! Ask not what your forum can do for you. Ask what you can do for your forum. Hijack the thread. Do something! Entertain me!
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Ooops, another whiner. Welcome to the pity party. 😩
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glupson
geoffkait:
"Why would the dudes from Star Sound go to Tuneland to stalk MG since they’re doing an excellent job stalking him right here..."
That is what is confusing. If I understood it right, the stalking thought was about Star Sound people going to Tuneland. That ranting and raving and self-promotion (hyphen was missing in the post I am referring to which, I am certain, was not good English) is being attempted by more than Star Sound dudes. If anyone, Michael Green was the first one who started advertising his website on this thread. He even signed every post with the link to his website. It is really not that important, but just to remain fair.
>>>>MG advertised his web site here that’s true, but he probably doesn’t want his former employee and his little buddy coming over and rocking the boat. I’m rarely wrong in these matters. He wants newbies like yourself, someone more like a clean slate. Just my opinion. |
uberwaltz
Katie....
Unfortunately I really do not have anything useful to contribute to this thread.
But that would put me in good company from what I see.....
>>>>I don’t expect much from anyone, including yourself, unterschmaltz. See, that way I don’t get disappointed. 😀
Jokes?
Thought that was your speciality.
>>>It’s my specialty. Not my speciality. 😛 As fate would have it humor is often not others’ speciality. 😬 |
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The Whack a Mole Special Olympics now in progress...
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Pop quiz Oh boy! 😀
Define “realistic approach.” Multiple choice.
1. Something easily acceptable to a clean slate or pseudo skeptic.
2. Something acceptable to someone who actually gave up on audio a long time ago who who thinks most ordinary people would agree with.
3. Something easily understood by folks with a GED or English majors.
4. Something perpetrated by Books on How to Improve your Sound.
5. An approach supported by AES.
6. All of the above
Perhaps a prize for the winner...hmmmmm?
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I can certainly understand how Carl Tutz or whatever his name is could fit into someone’s lifestyle. Especially is that lifestyle consists of sitting around listening to music all day long in an undershirt drinking beer. One imagines he would employ empty beer bottles as Helmholtz resonators scattered nonchalantly around the room.
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You can not (rpt not) tell anything about the sound from a picture. You CAN tell if the person is a neat freak, a slob or an interior decorator, or if his wife is uh, you know, an issue. A neat organized room is no indication of a good sounding system, it’s no indication of how the system sounds. It’s pretty to think so, though. 🌸 It’s like walking into a room at CES or wherever. No matter what the room looks like OR what speakers or electronics or cables are in the room you won’t know what the system sounds like until they play something.
On the other hand, if you spot a bunch of tiny little bowls on the walls, a Mpingo disc here and there, maybe some Corner Tunes, suspended cables, an iso stand and some large crystals placed discretely around the room....
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I always suspected wcfeil was an 🍑🤡 tee, hee
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grannyring
No, one cannot know exactly how a system sounds from a picture. Well, they can actually get a fair idea sometimes. If I see a big TV screen in between the speakers on the same plane , then I know what that does for sound. Same for many speaker placement errors. I used wood platforms and assorted wood diffusion and footers over the years and have a sense for what they do for sound also. So based on my many rigs, set ups and experience I can certainly speculate on many SQ attributes from pictures.
That being said, the Tuneland rooms are extreme and while interesting to me, they will always remain a curiosity as there is no way our living room could ever look like that!
>>>Like the old geezer in Chinatown told Geddes, you may think you know what’s going on but you don’t. While your detective work is not completely all wet you still would be unable to know what the sound is in the room with or without a TV. Yes, I realize audiophiles are very high on the idea that a TV between the speakers is a bad idea. But I say that idea is not entirely true. For example, a TV in the center would have little effect for dipoles. Even if there was no TV between the speakers or no TV in the room you STILL wouldn’t be able to say what the sound would be from looking at a picture. Even with lots of expensive room treatments you wouldn’t be able to say what the system would sound like. It might sound like you know what.
A picture is not worth a thousand words. It’s not worth anything.
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Robert, thanks for the many laughs. I hereby nominate you for Principal Bloviator slash 🍑🎩
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trelja
@geoffkait "You can not (rpt not) tell anything about the sound from a picture."
The statement is false.
Forget about taking it literally and the use of the word "any" which opens up a hole big enough to send an aircraft carrier through, a picture is worth a million words. Not to repeat @grannyring but within a second or three, the room, how the system and everything else is sited in it, and the components (provided one has previously experienced them) themselves should let the viewer understand the sound with a pretty high degree of accuracy. Provide a few more specifics such as cabling, cartridge, isolation devices, and tweaks one may not make out from the photo, and the focus becomes all the more clear.
>>>>Whatever you say, pal.
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amg56
And finally...
You are happy with your system, when you are happy with it. There is no need or compulsion to make it studio like, or above and beyond what is acceptable to you, the owner and listener.
Then forget the walking, sit and enjoy what you have.
>>>The trouble with the contented cow 🐮 approach to audio is that even though folks may have talked themselves into a state of bliss over their system, once they hear a really good system, assuming they ever leave the house, most of them would get off their Barco Loungers and get to work. Why draw imaginary lines in the sand? Lots of people like their systems. It doesn’t mean they sound good. There are the talkers, the walkers, now we have the sitters.
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You’ve all heard of Enter the Dragon. Well, now it looks like we have Enter the 🍑🎩 |
Audiogon gets a bad rap.
In every human enterprise where progress is almost always the product of fertile and active minds and energetic bodies there can be found naysayers, mossbacks, backsliders, relapsers, philosophers, pseudo skeptics, physics wannabes, sitters, lazybones, Whack a Molers, pretend social psychologists, fuddy-duddies, cheerleaders, an instant Peanut Gallery and lots of what about this, what about that type of chit chat. This is especially true with audio, particularly controversial tweaks, or any word, concept, idea, undertaking more than 1 Sigma off the normal curve, where one finds folks who refuse to believe this hobby is an active and interactive sport. It’s not like stamp collecting or leather crafts or crossword puzzles, you know, hobbies with real short learning curves.
If I could explain it to the ordinary person they wouldn’t have given me the Nobel prize. - Richard Feynman
An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. - old audiophile saw
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