Nyame
"As Bill Clinton has pointed out " It depends on what "directional is." I replaced 10 fuses in my system and after replacing the final fuse noted a fall-off in performance. I reversed the physical direction of the fuse and and optimum performance was restored. I DID NOT CONCLUDE THAT THE FUSE ITSELF IS INHERENTLY DIRECTIONAL. It is my belief that when a genuine audiophile say a fuse is "directional" this is what they are referring to. They are not saying that the fuse is inherently directional."
Uh, come again. What are you attributing the restoration of the sound to if not the inherent directionality of the fuse itself?
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Nyame, not sure why you are not on board the fuse directionality train since almost everyone else reports SR fuses are in fact directional. Even SR states their fuses are directional. I find it odd especially in light of your having SO MANY SR fuses that you have not followed suit. Hop aboard the fuse directionality train. All aboard! Toot toot!
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nyame
Geoffkait,
I need more information before boarding the train:
I do not know the manufacturing process used in fuse manufacture.
I do not understand the properties of graphene as it relates to SR fuses.
I do not know the full effects of Quantum tunneling.
I have no information on the fuse holders.
I do not know if the labels on the fuses are oriented in the same direction.
All of of those things are irrelevant. Start with the assumption all fuses are directional. When you have many fuses in your system the only way to determine directionality is check each fuse, one at a time, for sound in both directions and keep the fuse in the direction that sounds best. Then move to the next fuse and repeat. Check all fuses one at a time. Th sound should get progressively better. When you have finished checking all fuses for directionality you can repeat the whole process in case you made a mistake or weren’t sure about one or more fuse. The second time around you should experience an easier time deciding which direction is best for each fuse since the system will be more resolving.
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In response to request by georgelofi for SR statement on fuse directionality. From somewhere in cyberspace,
Valerio,
In my experience nearly all fuses are directional including SR Quantum Fuses. I recommend you try them in one component at at time and experiment with directionality. You should immediately notice a preference for one direction or the other. If a component has more than one fuse use a DVM (Digital Volt Meter) to determine direction of current in the circuit. Once you know the direction of current in each fuse holder place all fuses in like direction paying attention to have the letters on the SR Quantum Fuses all in the same direction either reading in the direction of signal flow, or against. Next switch direction and the correct match to your component should be readily apparent. There are just too many variables for me to make a blanket recommendation for all components when such a simple and definitive test is available.
As to having to take a reviewers word for it (or not,) regarding which fuse to try / buy you have the option to audition SR Quantum Fuses for 30 days in your system with a full refund of the cost of the fuse should you elect to go a different way. Our 30-day no risk audition policy takes the guess work out of trying SR Quantum Fuses and is offered because I am certain we make the best sounding fuses in the world.
Yours in music,
Ted Denney III
Lead Designer, Synergistic Research Inc.
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Wolf Man wrote,
"...but there is room for ear wax removal kits and I’ve been using that stuff for decades. Highly recommended."
You’ve been using it for decades? I’ll bet you have. It’s all starting to make sense now as to your difficulty hearing. I imagine you remove ear wax the size of golf balls, no?
One can’t help wondering if all of the naysayers, the fuse denyers, are of a certain age when their hearing is pretty much shot, you know, nothing above 8 or 10 KHz.
😀 |
Wolf man wrote,
"I have asked repeatedly if anybody knows why or how Magic Fuses work. Well, how do they work? (there…I asked again)."
The reasons Magic Fuses work have been posted many times. Have you tried using the Search function?
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mapman
Fuses matter! Gear might fry without them.
This is your brain. This is your brain without a fuse.
😂
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I don't mean to be overly critical but this whole fuse thing is really nothing more than a microcosm of the age-old mud fight between ADVANCED audiophiles and, well, you know...at this particular point in time it would appear the anti fuse delegation has run out of ammo again and are probably looking around for some more dummy loads.
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Mapman wrote,
"I’m pretty sure Geoffkait is an advocate and he does that consistently all the time when challenged and shows no signs of ever relenting. As long as he is on your side I guess that makes it OK?"
I advocate for truth. Unlike the trolls, who are in denial. Rule number one for audio arguments - never show up to a gun fight with a knife.
then Mapman wrote,
"The main problem is lack of information about the product to help convince the doubters and settle the arguments.. I think that’s one of Wolfs pet peeves and mine also."
That’s kinda why you guys are in the group that’s the opposite of ADVANCED audiophiles. Even when presented with the information you - like Al, Ralph and Wolfie - either can’t see it, don’t see it or pretend not to see it. None so blind that will not see. Besides you can never change the mind of a pseudo skeptic. It's the Backfire Effect in full bloom. Furthermore no self respecting pseudo skeptic wiped ever admit he was wrong in front of other pseudo skeptics.
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jetter
Actually, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there were two problems, the smallest was that the results were not measurable, but the largest was that it is not possible for an object not in the music signal path to impact the music signal (sound). Other than the possible impact of allowing more or less power to the unit than the stock fuse.
I could have it all wrong though, and don't want to rock the boat (titanic).
You are wrong. No offense.
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kalali
I honestly cannot believe I’m witnessing so much drama for just a fuse! I would be embarrassed to tell my "non-audiophile" friends such a thread even exists and worse yet, I’m actually posting on it. This is a sort of thing I expected to see from teenage girls fighting over which lipstick makes them look more cool.
I’m afraid you’ve broken the Audiophile Code of Silence, omertà. Audiophiles should never discuss certain things with non audiophile friends. Now that I think about it real audiophiles don’t have non audiophile friends. But if they do they would be well advised to NEVER discuss aftermarket fuses, directionality, crystals, the Green Pen, the Red X Pen, Mpingo discs or the Teleportation Tweak if they wish to keep those friends.
😀
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jmcgrogan2
"Let’s talk politics and/or religion!!!! ;^)
Or maybe setup another forum for non-believers, like Audio Asylum does with Propeller Head Plaza."
If you think Propeller Head Plaza attracts the non-believers wait’ll ya get a load of Isolation Ward. 😎
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mapman
Just for the record, GK and I are NOT like-minded. :^)
It would appear I dodged a bullet. A mind is a terrible thing to have. 😬
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Hey! Whoa! I guess this must be another episode of 12 Angry Men. Or maybe Grouchy Old Men.
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Fleschler
"I know this could lead to another round of controversy, but multiple pressings of CDs can have variable audio quality from the same pressing plant, in other words, they don’t sound necessarily alike. There is no electrical or physical reason that I’ve found or my friend Robert has found, but the proof in the pudding, listening to one after another. One CD can sound brighter/duller/tonally richer/thinner, etc. than another or they may sound alike. I have two complete sets of the classical Mercury Living Presence CDs (as well as the boxed versions) in which many of them have tonally different sound, one set is generally brighter and more forward sounding and the other more rounded and less forward sounding. It’s a mystery as to why it is that way."
In the case of Mercury Living Presence CDs, I can think of several things that affect their sound, the single CDs or the box sets. One is that the Mercury Living Presence CDs are apparently in reverse absolute polarity. At least according to George Louis, the Polarity Pundit. I tend to agree with that assessment generally, given the lack of low bass performance compared to LP versions, for example, and a tendency to sound rather unfocused and whimpy and tonality incorrect. Also, the area around the spindle hole is usually solid metal, which degrades the sound, rather than clear plastic. A CD with clear center will sound better than the same CD with a metal center, all things being equal. A Drexel tool can be used to remove the offending thin metal disc around the spindle hole. Third, the iconic Black and White label is bad for the sound. Coloring the outer edge red and the inner edge black improves the sound of any Mercury Living Presence CD quite noticeably. |
grannyring
I find the sound quality of the few MLP recordings I just listened to be full bodied and natural in tone with no upper mid or treble thinness or bite whatsoever. Very nice indeed.
I believe you. But compared to what? All these audiophile terms are completely subjective in nature. My "full bodied and natural" could be even more full bodied and natural than yours, no? I assume you are referring to CDs. If you compare the CD to the original LP I’m pretty sure you would agree with me the LP is more full bodied and natural. And if you take my advice and color the CD you will find the CD to sound more full bodied and natural. I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday. 😛
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mapman
GK if you truly think that about the MLP Cds (I doubt the sincerity of most everything you say) then you may have gotten some bad copies (I have almost 100 and none are bad) or else you may need to check out your Walkman for issues.
Ouch! Too much coffee, Mopman?
Mopman: All releases are somewhat different of course but MLP is consistently excellent.
The word excellent is meaningless. I never said they were terrible.
Mopman: What do you not understand about top notch?
Top notch means nothing to me. It means different things to different people. It’s a meaningless term in this hobby, that’s for sure.
Mopman: Your OCD is getting the best of you again.
ouch, again. Very ouch.
Mopman: You and your alternate facts. I suspect you are pretty lonely in this particular stance oh great seer!
Whoa! Get a grip, grasshopper. Look within. Actually now that you mention it, I don't crave confirmation, you know, like some folks I know.
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Fleschler just wrote,
"Low bass performance on the Mercury CDs are not lacking at all in any of the 3 pressings. They sound veryI focused, dynamic and tonally correct."
Uh, there appears to be some disparity between your two statements regarding Mercury Liivng Presence CDs. Your first statement indicated some dissatisfaction with at least some of the Mercury CDs, to whit,
"I have two complete sets of the classical Mercury Living Presence CDs (as well as the boxed versions) in which many of them have tonally different sound, one set is generally brighter and more forward sounding and the other more rounded and less forward sounding. It’s a mystery as to why it is that way."
If they have tonally different sound, as you say, they can’t all have accurate tonality, no?
As for bass performance, everything is relative. You maybe perfectly content with yours but all I’m saying it can be improved. Everything can be improved. Can I suggest, as they say in Nebraska, you ain’t heard nothin yet?
Everything is relative. - A. Einstein
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mapman
I have 1st 50 cd MLP box set and all ripped at original resolution to music server. It’s a wonderful sounding set with top notch sound quality overall. The sound quality MLP is renowned for is there in spades. Gk once again is spouting nonsense.
Speaking of resolution you clearly have some personal issues you need to resolve. Besides I’m pretty sure "top notch" is an extremely fuzzy way to describe the sound quality of anything. I would choose to say, by contrast, that in general MLP CDs tend to sound whimpy, threadbare, bass shy, two dimensional, honky, piercing, and like paper mache. Relatively speaking, of course.
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At the risk of being repetitive and/or argumentative all Mercury Living Presence CDs are in reverse polarity. That's out of phase to you civilians. |
grannyring
Gk, good point. My point of reference then would have to be other recordings of same genre. Still subjective based on what I have heard on other recordings. I have not heard MLP recodings on any other sources other then my system which is computer based with Roon/Tidal and ripped CDs.
i used to be a big with a capital "b" collector of Mercury Living Presence and RCA Living Stereo LPS and have the latest Mercury box set. I sold my Mercury and RCA LP collection for around $15K quite a few years ago, after I sold my Maplenoll Limited Ed. air bearing turntable with 500 feet of air tubing and two air buffers. All tube electronics with military voltage regulators for everything. I am pretty sure I know what Mercury Living Presence recordings are SUPPOSED to sound like. Mercury and RCA recordings also sound superb on cassette, by the way, full bodied and natural. :-) Tape is a natural medium. It breathes.
Cheers
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Fleschler
It’s kind of pointless to argue further on the subject of SQ and Mercury LPs or CDs as there are perfectly good reasons why you hear things as you describe, it doesn't mean what I said is wrong. I have said what I wanted to say. It can serve no further purpose to argue about this any more.
have a nice day
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Geoffkait: It’s kind of pointless to argue further on the subject of SQ and Mercury LPs or CDs as there are perfectly good reasons why you hear things as you describe, it doesn’t mean what I said is wrong.
to which Mopman replied,
"There are tons of MLP release reviews out on the web. Hello? Its no secret these things typically sound great. Unlike funky fuses.
I know. I know. Still does not mean you are wrong. You're just a little different. Of course we all know that as well. Nothing wrong with that. Me too I suppose. Except I agree with the masses regarding sound quality of MLP."
All real audiophiles hear the difference in fuses. Since you can't hear the difference, and proudly so, that would make you a fake audiophile, no?
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Mitch
This may be off topic, but I was just thinking about how hard it must be for the people who manufacture and sell actual snake oil.
Maybe they need a hug....or a gofundme page?
You guys apparently need a vacation. Or maybe a gofundyourself page?
😛
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Wolf Man
This may be off topic, but I was just thinking about how hard it must be for the people who manufacture and sell actual snake oil.
I suspect that having thousands of happy customers, you know, real audiophiles, is more of a heavenly thing.
Have a nice hair day
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Aftermarket fuses are as old as Methuselah. What we have here is nothing more than an abject case of denial coupled with a giant case of the you know what. |
mapman
I’m a real audiophile. Vet me extremely and see.
I just Googled fake audiophile and there was a picture of Mapman.
😛
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Georgelofi said,
"I’m not a lawyer."
Gee, no kidding? You probably don’t know that amps, speakers, whatever frequently don’t measure the same as the stated specifications when tested. Would you believe they never measure the same in different rooms? Who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters!
Someone once did try to get the FCC on my case for the Teleportation Tweak, I will admit.
I don’t think anyone has ever tried to measure Shun Mook discs but they’re quite effective in any case. In fact I’d go as far as to say they’re Super Duper. I actually have experience. Can you believe it?
This all just substantiates my contention that this is a classic case of Advanced Audiophiles vs uh, let me choose my words carefully - the Opposite. |
Actually, and I apologize for repeating myself for the umpteenth time, but there are already enough perfectly good reasons why aftermarket fuses work better than ordinary fuses without having to go down rabbit holes like noise rejection and how many dB dance on the head of a pin. Furthermore why would anyone say, "We don't know how it works, we just know it does? That would be ignorant and not serve any purpose. If I can be so bold, the only ones here who are claiming they don't know how aftermarket fuses work are the pseudo skeptics. No offense intended.
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I see what you mean. My bad. Maybe his job is lawn maintenance. In any case, he didn't say, "I'm a not a knucklehead." At least not in so many words.
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shadowman wrote,
"The only reason you could ever need better fuses or better power cords is if your equipment is totally inadequately designed and badly built to begin with!
Well designed and well built Components will maximize the accuracy of the source signal and totally minimize all other extraneous factors like interconnects, cables and power cords - all to inaudible levels.
If you hear a difference from changing an extraneous factor like a power cord then there is something seriously wrong with your equipment or set up to begin with. It may happen but it is really not acceptable for audio equipment to be so unreliable."
Do you have anything to support ANY your statements? Anything at all? It sounds like you're just huffing and puffing. No offense to you personally.
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Georgelofi
almarg
Personally, I would always much prefer to see a manufacturer say something along the lines of "frankly, we don’t know why it works but it does," than to provide misleading and specious technical explanations.
Best regards,
-- Al
Yes that would be a more honest approach, and to get rid of face saving comments like " the proof is in the listening."
Cheers George
Thanks, George, that’s just the pick-me-up I needed for a slow Sunday afternoon. I hate to be the one to point this out but saying, "the proof is in the listening" is the SAME as saying, "we don’t know why it works but it does." Have you been nodding out on us? Hel-loo!
have a nice afternoon
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This just in! Audio Magic checks in with Nano liquid filled fuses. Liquid filling...yum!
from the Audio Magic website,
Audio Magic is known for having the quietest, best sounding fuses on the market today. When it comes to innovative fuse design we accomplish this by stopping noise in a variety of ways that no one else does.
a. Stop the element from vibrating at 50/60 hz which is a huge noise component. We accomplish this by injecting the fuse with a proprietary liquid anti vibration material that stops the vibrating element in it's tracks.
b. Injecting the fuse with our Black Out mixture which gobbles up internal and external EMI and RF.
c. Treat the fuse with our Nano Streaming process which brings the crystalline structure of any metal in the fuse closer together thus removing static discharge in the fuse as well as making all metal parts better conductors.
d. Incorporating our exclusive i Core Technology in the Premier line, this process allows for the energy going through the fuse to do so in a very uniform manner thus increasing efficiency.
Nano Premium Liquid Fuse
This is our entry level fuse which incorporates a mixture of our anti-vibration fluid and Black Out material blended together.
Super Fuse
This fuse is filled with a 1/3 anti-vibration material and 2/3 Super Black Out mixture for even better EMI and RF control.
Premiere Super Fuse
This fuse is just like the standard Super Fuse, only we've add our NEW i Core Technology to the fuse.
Premier Bees wax Super Fuse
This fuse is identical to the Premier Super Fuse only we've replaced the standard anti-vibration material with Bees Wax [ a very intense process ]. This fuse gives all the great attributes of the Standard Premier with a very organic flavor.
All Audio Magic fuses have had extensive testing done to make sure the fuses blow at the ratings the manufacturer intended, and, no, they will not leak as the fluid solidifies after about an hour of being in.
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jond
I will say the Audio Magic stuff sounds like a bunch of jargon filled marketing crap, but at least they have the honesty to say their beeswax fuse has a very organic "flavor" :P
Take it from someone who's owned an Audio Magic fuse, it's a honey of a fuse. Sweet!
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ps
Small silk bags containing multi-color quartz aquarium rocks, with a minimum of two audiophile fuses per bag, are incredibly effective in taming runaway hi-fi systems, especially after being frozen for at least 48 hours. Bags should be placed atop speakers and electronic components. The optimum number of bags is system-dependent. Drawstrings on the bags should be woven from hemp for best performance. YMMV
Lots of yuks, but seriously, folks, there are many ways to improve the performance of any fuse, even super duper aftermarket fuses. To whit,
1. Cryo the fuse or use the trusty home freezer.
2. Apply a contact enhancer such as Quicksilver Gold to the fuse end caps prior to installation.
3. Apply a teeny weeny WA Quantum Chip for Fuses to the fuse in situ.
4. Apply some sort of anti vibration material to the fuse holder.
5. Surround the fuse with a mu metal "tent" to shield it from magnetic fields, especially if there happens to be a large transformer anywhere nearby. As mu metal is conductive ensure mu metal doesn’t contact the fuse end caps.
6. Paint the end caps violet/purple using permanent marker. This can be accomplished in situ.
geoff kait
machina dynamica
no goats, no glory
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Shadrach wrote,
"Geoff,
Pick up any of hundreds of books on audio amplifier or speaker design. You will find ample proof that equipment is designed to minimize extraneous noise from the power supply (that is where you will find the fuse). You will find a low output impedance and a high input impedance is recommended in order to minimize interconnection effects."
Please provide one, just one, statement in any of those hundreds of audio amplifier or speaker design books regarding fuses in either amplifiers or speakers. I trust you aren’t now claiming fuses are interconnectors.
Shadrach wrote,
"I dont know why any of you would think well designed audio equipment should magnify things that we definitely do not want to hear. If this is not self apparent then you are in the wrong hobby because listening to music means a focus on the music (source signal) and not the fuse in the power supply."
Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said audio equipment should magnify things we do not want to hear. Do you actually believe fuses are NOT a weak point for EMI/RFI, vibration and conductivity? Have you been nodding out during this discussion?
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Al, you’re welcome. Just curious, did you happen to run across ANY patents or patent applications for audiophile fuses? It seems to me these audiophile fuses are not really a new invention but an improvement of an existing invention. So, I doubt any of the fuses we've been talking about are actually patentable. There are only so many patents granted for paper clips, too, I would imagine.
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Right. There is some question whether Audio Horizons, in such a competitive market, would be able to sell enough fuses to pay for the patent. There's also the sticky issue of whether it's actually better to keep the whole thing secret rather than reveal how it works in the patent.
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Al, I hereby award you the first Dick Tracy Award for detective work above and beyond the call of duty. It almost sounds like you're making some sort of comparison between aftermarket fuses and perpetual motion machines but maybe I'm reading too much into your post.
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For audiophile fuses one assumes patent approval does NOT depend on listening tests. Therefore, ironically, having a patent for an audiophile fuse does not in itself guarantee the fuse will improve the SQ, no? So the whole issue regrading patents for fuses is moot. A patent - if there is one - should not persuade an audiophile one way or the other.
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grannyring
Another reason is a patent makes your idea and process visible to all including competitors. Competitors make a couple of changes and they can in fact "copy"your "patent" in large measure. Sometimes it is better to just keep it hidden.
eggs ackley! You beat me to it by 15 minutes. One can't help wondering if the Patent Office would have any difficulty approving my application for the Teleportation Tweak? Or would they reject it out of hand? Not that I would file an application. Loose lips sink ships.
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mapman
Wow fuses are really boring compared to that!
I would certainly disagree if I could.
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Barbapapa
This thread has been great for a long time. Partly because Oregon papa was kind and clever enough for keeping calm and and answer with humour on the 2 or 3 that never listenned to aftermarket fuses but try to turn the ones who listen and want to share ridiculous.
But now it is becoming complteley useless and stupid.
Unlike the trolls when I disagree I quit but my goal is to learn or share about music reproduction, not to suscribe to all the discussions Where opinions differs to mine.
The trolls don't bring anything positive or interesting on the discussion. Never ever, but htere is always someone for answering them. They don't care what we can argue, they only try to exist using maîly the threads speaking of tweaks and expressing opinions based on listening impressions.
They never quit the thread, hidden behind their screens scruting new posts and answering things we don't asl'them to, trying to turn ridiculous the ones that speaks about what they heard.
Many years now I am on forums and it is always the same again and again.
So I think we should have a "Troll" switch to activate or not on every thread and when the Troll switch has been activated by, let's say, more than 10 or 20% of the forumers past the 20 posts they could be automatically put off the thread.
They think they are clever and humourous but they are useless, stupids and nocive.
Ain't that the truth? |
George, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore.
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Trolls should be welcomed with open arms. Aside from giving out name tags M, T and S there’s not much you can do. In addition, when things get a little tedious or self congratulatory on any number of audio subjects along come the trolls to loosen things up and play pseudo skeptic or Devil’s advocate. As far as I know the long standing practice of leaving Roach Motels out overnight has been largely ineffective and should probably be curtailed.
There’s a fine line between a troll and a skeptic. But there’s an even finer line between an enthusiast and a shill. - old audio axiom
😎
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georgelofi
I believe he was referring to the very few who keep beating the drum of skepticism in a negative way.
They are the ones that are technical ones, and not voodoo drum beaters.
Please name and show any posts of any of the known technical member’s here on these forums, that back the things being said about what these $$$ fuses are doing amazing things for the sound, similar to what the voodoo’ist are saying, and the directional application of them.
Been there, done that. The technical explanations why fancy fuses outperform stock fuses has been provided ad nauseum by yours truly. Ad nauseum, you know, like your demands for them. 😀
Rule no. 1. Never give a technical explanation to a non technical person. It's goes whoosh!
Besides, this isn’t going to be another one of those I’ll show you my credentials if you show me yours debates, is it? 😁
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George, you really don't get the whole Appeal to Authority thing, do you?
😃
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Hey, mods! Better check the expiration date on those Roach Motels.
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No matter how technically astute or insightful my explanation of how aftermarket fuses work you don’t have to look too hard to find some pseudo skeptic or knucklehead who disagrees with me or who says, this cannot be or science won't allow it. This is stacking up to be just another sad episode of 12 Angry Men. Don’t worry, be happy.
Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
We do the difficult with ease, the impossible takes longer |
