Synergistic Red Fuse ...
Poll: How many audiophiles have purchased aftermarket fuses in the past 15-20 years? Whenever Isoclean and HiFi Tuning began selling them. I'm looking for the number of audiophiles not the number of fuses, which would obviously be much higher. Much much higher. a. 500 b. 1000 c. 2000 d. 5,000 e. 10,000 f. 20,000 cheers, g.k., Machina Dramatica |
In the interest of fair play and accuracy, from what I gather from the Music Direct page for HiF Tuning fuses there is actually a 60-day guarantee for HiFi Tuning fuses. Besides everybody and his brother offers a 30 day money back guarantee for just anything you can think of. Heck, I even offer a 30 day money back guarantee on the Teleportation Tweak. Hel-loo! So you cannot hang your hat on a 30 day money back guarantee for SR fuses.its nice, but it’s not unique. And it’s actually only half as good as HiFi Tuning’s guarantee. Please pass the popcorn. cheers, geoff kait machina dynamica |
Perhaps even more relevant to this thread is the description (on the same page) of Audio Magic’s Premier Super Fuse. Please note use of blackout powder in the Premier Super Fuse. Sound familiar? Is that ringing any bells for anybody? Apparently and I hate to jump to any conclusions here but SR was not the first one to use carbon for EMI/RFI rejection/absorption in fuses. Audio Magic Premiere SUPER fuse: The Audio Magic Premiere SUPER fuse incorporates Audio Magic’s anti vibration fluid to stop the element from vibrating at 50/60 hz and then the blackout powder super mix to absorb all EMI and RFI riding the element as well as ambient sources and insert a new HRC core which allows the signal to travel through the fuse in a more cohesive and linear manner. The Premier SUPER fuse is 30% better than the Audio Magic’s original SUPER fuse in every way! Geoff Kait machina dynamica we do artificial atoms right! |
Jafreeman wrote, " Geoffkait, your product line should come with an open guarantee e.g., "Whenever in your life you realize you have been duped, your money will be cheerfully refunded." But, since most noob audiophiles can't find their ass with both hands within 30 days, your profit margin has probably remained fairly safe." Relax, it's only a hobby. Nothing to get all twitchy about. Geoff Kait machina dramatica |
Charles1Dad wrote, "I've all the appreciation for technical explanation and understanding the "why and how" something performs as it does. I'm eager for information and further education." OK, looks like it's time for a recap. The modern aftermarket fuses sound better than stock fuses because, 1. Attention is paid to the directionality of the fuse. All wire is directional. Even stock fuses are directional. 2. Attention is paid to vibration, especially 60 Hz hum coming from you know where. Thus we have liquid filled fuses and ceramic body fuses. Too bad fuses don't address the magnetic field coming from you know where. 3. Attention is paid to RFI/EMI. 4. Attention is paid to conductivity of the fuse (by using higher purity wire and/or end caps). geoff kait machina dynamica no goats no glory |
Almarg wrote, "Geoff, thank you for providing the thorough recap. However, as I see it those are not explanations, they are assertions. Or perhaps hypotheses would be a better term. To rise to the level of being explanations there has to be some basis (either analytical or empirical) to expect a reasonable possibility that the presumed lack of attention to those factors in stock fuses results in effects that are great enough in degree to be audibly harmful, in a broad range of applications." Yes, Al, they’re assertions. They’re assertions why aftermarket fuses sound better than stock fuses. Skeptics keep clamoring for explanations, assertions, whatever. As if there is some deep unexplainable mystery here. There isn’t. Sorry to disappoint you and Mopman. Gee, whiz, are we now supposed to have to prove our assertions? Audio forums are built on assertions. You know, like this amp sounds better than that one, or these cables have more top end or this DAC has more transparency. Or this fuse elicits more details than that one. But at the same time, let me ask you, have you ever heard the expression, none so blind that will not see? That is also an assertion. Some folks can never seem to hoist themselves off the old LazyBoy and get to the bottom of these new fangled things. Investigation is the heart of all science. Geoff Kait machina dramatica No goats no glory |
Almarg wrote, "Regarding quantum tunneling, as I pointed out earlier in the thread there is such a phenomenon (see this Wikipedia writeup). However, my understanding is that it has nothing to do with treating a material "with 2,000,000 volts of electricity in a process we [SR] call Quantum Tunneling." Or with application of any other especially high voltage." Of course it’s not really Quantum Tunneling. Geez. The beauty of being a manufacturer is you can call your methods or products anything you want to. It’s called poetic license or whatever. I have to say quantum tunneling certainly sounds a lot better than Super Zapping. Hey, I call one of my products Dark Matter. Is it really dark matter? Well, uh, no. I call another one of my products a Particle Accelerator. Is it a real particle accelerator like a Supercollider or the one at CERN? No, but it is actually a particle accelerator. So I get partial credit. No man is an island. He’s a peninsula. |
George wrote, "Well said Whitestix There’s way too much voodoo in this industry that not substantiated with any technical explanation offered. (Note: that was almost a compete sentence) EG: Shun Mook Mpingo room treatment devices. http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/#eE3kszwsp5RadvU3.97 After all every piece of equipment that everyone owns, is made using the laws of electronics and test gear to develop it. Anyone who has something that’s not made using these has voodoo gear." George, we’ve already gone over all of that. There is nothing voodoo about the Mpingo discs. Ignorance of the laws of science is no excuse. The particular method of operation is actually provided on the Shun Mook web page for Mpingo discs. Don’t get so freaked out by such simple and easy to understand audio devices as Mpingo discs, tiny little bowl resonators, Shakti Halographs, Marigo VTS dots, Graphene fuses, or what have you. "Knowledge is what’s left after you forgot everything you learned in school." - Old audiophile axiom geoff at Machina Dynamica |
Oregonpapa wrote, "I find it very interesting that so many of us are getting astounding results from the SR fuses ... and yet, there are the few who get nothing out of them at all. I understand the skepticism though." Well, for one thing that’s not really skepticism, assuming they tried the fuses. The word "skepticism" is usually reserved for those who refuse to try things based on some sort of gut reaction or the feeling that the laws of physics have somehow been violated. Or they just like going after audiophiles and audiophile tweaks. ;-) "Early on in this thread I made the statement that I’ve been burned before by tweaks that didn’t work ... and if it hadn’t been for the 30 day return policy, I wouldn’t have tried the first SR Red fuse that I bought. I’m so glad I did. I can’t think of any other tweak I’ve tried in over 40 years in the hobby that has made such an outstanding improvement in the system." Just curious, which tweaks did you try that didn’t work for you, that you felt burned by? As I already mentioned, there are many reasons why audiophiles sometimes don’t get good results even with the most reliable of tweaks. I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it certainly appears fuses are destined to go down as controversial tweaks, even twenty years after aftermarket fuses were introduced. Controversial because of the skeptics, controversial because results are somewhat mixed, and controversial because they are so small and innocuous. "I’ve made similar improvements but its always involved major upgrades in equipment. A case in point was when I replaced my ARC SP-14 with the ARC REF-3. Or the ARC Classic 60 replaced with the REF-75. Those were major improvements, but not more so than upgrading to the SR fuses and power cords. Why there are those who cannot hear the improvements is beyond me. A mystery to be sure." I can certainly understand the melodrama but it’s not really a mystery why some people cannot hear certain tweaks. It happens all the time. It happens with cables, it happens with power cords, it happens with Mpingo discs, it happens with CD treatments, with demagnetizers, with contact enhancers and it happens with it happens with fuses. We already know, for example, if the user inserts the Fuse in the wrong direction he might not like what he hears. Speaking of which, is everyone on board the directionality of the Black fuse, that the correct direction is determined by the letters S and R on the fuse? The dude with the DartZeel equipment reported otherwise, IIRC. cheers, geoff kait at Machina Dynamica |
Oregonpapa wrote, "1. Green paint for CD's. Black paint for CD's. 2. Tice Clock. 3. Don't recall the name, but a black box with a power cord attached that when plugged into any outlet was supposed to lower the noise floor. It did absolutely nothing. 4. After market turntable mat that did nothing except slow the speed of the turntable motor. 5. CD mat ... no change. 6. After market jumper cables for the speakers that actually degraded the sound. Couple things. The green pen is a little trickier than folks realize. The green should only be used on the outer edge and black should only be used on the inner edge. Black should never be used on the outer edge or on the label. Mess you up. The black box sounds like the quantum corp. Symphony Or Symphony Pro or the one that preceded them, all of which I had good luck with. Knock on wood. The Mpingo disc, very tricky to find the place where it actually makes a big difference but it's there. When I first heard what the Mpingo disc can do I almost evacuated a brick. I showed Pierre at Maplshade the Mpingo discs back in 1997 at the show and he insisted on using it on the floor right in front of the system. Geoff Kait machina dynamica |
Whitesox wrote, "I guess from the number of folks on this thread who find the fuses, etc. improving their system, I think that is just great. They don’t cost much and if they, like speaker cable elevators, do something to improve the sound of their system, then what the hell, go for it. I do advice you to turn in your "BS filter" to what is being said in an advocacy of these tweaks and understand that folks like GK, who chimes in on this post with baffling assertions coming from the realm of pseudo-electronics, have economic skin in the game to entice you to try the expensive stuff they peddle." Uh, oh, I’m getting a bad feeling. geoff kait machina dynamica advanced audio conceits |
Oregonpapa wrote, "Talking about room treatments ... The four Shatki Holograms I have in the room were a major improvement. Without them, the sound stage collapses. I wouldn’t want to be without them in the system." I’m not very surprised to hear about your success with Shakti Hallographs and I suspect the person, I forget which one, who recently disparaged Shakti Blocks (Shakti Stones) undoubtedly experienced operator error issues since the Shakti Stones are directional and location dependent. There are many reasons why some folks don’t get the full audiophile experience with some tweaks. Operator error happens to be one of them. I was in the room at CES with John Curl and Bob Crump when Mike Van Evers demonstrated his wild wood block contraption which one supposes was the predecessor to the Shakti Hallographs. I also have been using the somewhat similar Mpingo discs since Bob Hope was a Boy Scout. Not to mention tiny little bowl resonators. And Helmholtz resonators. And crystals. They’re all related. Cheers, geoff kait machina dynamica no goats no glory |
Whitesox wrote, "In closing, the fact of the matter that we are all looking for the supreme enjoyment of our musical experiences. Nobody would spend time on this thread if they weren't music lovers and from what I can see, you guys have systems which I be delighted to hear, truly. Man, we are all in search of the absolute sound. My notion is that we have forum in which we can discuss our gear and our devotion to the music that such gear reproduces. That is what it is all about. Still, watch out for anything GK markets. With good will, Mark" if you're pretending to be an audiophile you're doing an excellent job. With good will, GK. |
Let’s do the math. Assume for the moment a good fuse like the Black fuse can double the performance of a well tuned system. Let’s also assume a good fuse might only provide a 10% improvement in a system that is not tweaked and tuned! but right out of the box. This is representative of what I like to call the Last Tweak Syndrome, why folks who have been tuning and tweaking a long time experience much greater results with fuses or any new tweak than those who might be trying a tweak for the first time, or may only have a limited number of tweaks in the system. The Last Tweak Syndrome explains why audiophiles frequently get absolutely off the scale results with the latest thing they do. But the reason is not necessarily that the thing is that much better than an earlier tweak from many years before but because the system is now at a much higher level of performance. Thus the latest tweak is much more audible and much more effective. Because many of the problems with the system - problem that are inherent in any system - that were holding it back had been solved by all the tuning and tweaking that went before. The Last Tweak Syndrome, however, can give the false impression that this is about as good as it’s going to get. What can possibly outdo the Latest Tweak? Have users of Black Fuse felt inclined to try the next big tweak? Probably not. That overwhelming feeling that there’s only 3-5% left until perfection is reached looms large with the last big tweak. Of course that’s not true, it’s only a psychological ceiling. Thus, if one had put in a good fuse BEFORE another tweak, say Shakti Hallographs, he might very well have reached a different conclusion. He might declare Shakti Hallographs the greatest thing ever. The Last Tweak Syndrome also explains why some folks have less than stellar results with fuses or any tweak; there are still too many problems in the system for the device under test to be effective, relatively speaking. It’s swamped out or masked by the noise and distortion. Do the math. No matter how much you have in the end you would have had even more if you had started out with more in the beginning. If you were striving to DOUBLE the performance wouldn’t it be better to double the performance of a system that was at 90% of it’s PEAK performance than if it was only at say 80% of it’s PEAK performance? Geoff Kait machina dynamica advanced audio concepts |
Charles1dad wrote, "Geof, That’s makes a lot of sense. This is why I and others have written that the higher the audio system’s resolution prowess the greater the impact of the Black fuses. As one addresses distortion and lowers the noise floor in their respective system /components there’s less veiling/limiting of what the Black fuses have to offer. You explain this progressive tweak improvement well IMO. Charles, " Yes, but think of the FUTURE. Think of how you’re going to carry on when you try the next big tweak! And what will that next big tweak be? What will be on everyone’s lips? The other corollary of The Last Tweak Syndrome is that as audiophiles we tend to get carried away with the Last Big Tweak we try and hyper focus on it at the expense of everything else. It's harder to hit a moving target. A rolling stone gathers no moss. The Black fuse can’t be the end of the game, or can it? Lol geoff kait machina dynamica |
Moopman wrote, mapman 13,054 posts 03-28-2016 11:48am "Geoff, "Last Tweak Syndrome" is an interesting theory. Who came up with that again?" Three guesses. The first two don’t count. Moopman also wrote, "Its definitely what’s best for business." I’m sure you’re just being paranoid. You know how I eschew tooting my own horn. Geoff Kait Machoman Dramatica |
Wolfman wrote, "Rave on fuse heads! Mass hysteria aside, I suppose I'll simply wait for a reasonable explanation as to WHY a fuse would make what ardent promotors feel is such a huge improvement…somehow, based on the artful (or not so much) dodging of any basic technical question along these lines, I think I'll be waiting a long time." Huh? We've discussed this over and over on this thread. Did you sleep through class a lot in school? Geoff Kait |
Almarg wrote, " almarg 6,255 posts 03-28-2016 2:01pm "Geoff, note that Wolfie referred to a **reasonable** explanation. As I indicated in my post dated 3-25-2016 the explanations that have been cited are hypotheses at best. Unless the specific adverse effects of stock fuses that are claimed to be minimized or eliminated by the SR and other audiophile-oriented fuses are somehow shown to have a reasonable possibility of being great enough in degree to be audibly harmful (and across a broad range of components and systems), it is not unreasonable to consider those hypotheses to be unproven and/or unreasonable." I actually happen to think there’s anything wrong with hypotheses or educated guesses. But there are also certain things that are not really in dispute, except perhaps only by someone who isn’t really prepare to argue seriously these issues. Some things we are more sure about. For example, we know that it can’t be used as the wire inside the fuse since it’s only one atom thick. Therefore we can safely assume Graphene is used in the Black fuse to combat RFI. We also know that all wire is directional including the wire in fuses. This is not really in doubt. We also know that end caps that are gold plated, silver plated or pure silver are better conductors than say nickel plate or whatever. We also know cryogenics improves the performance of many things, including metals, like the metals used in fuses. We also know that vibration is not good for the sound so any method of reducing vibration in the fuse is welcome, such as liquid filling in the Audio Magic fuse. Of course one can dispute these assertions, whatever, but it would be more rational to simply accept them and keep the ball moving down the court. You don’t really think audio forums require proof of assertions, do you, Al? Are you suggesting this is some sort of peer review we have here? Break me a give. Some people as we have actually seen here on this thread cannot be convinced of anything. That’s why there is such a term as pseudo skeptic. Skeptics in the real sense - not the sense you see here often - requires rational debate and inquiry and investigation, not some knee jerk response like, But you can’t prove it! That type of thing is straight out of 12 Angry Men. Even in a murder trial proof is not a requirement for conviction, only the preponderance of the evidence. And the evidence in this case is piling up. Besides, getting back to your point nobody has shown ANY PROOF OR EVIDENCE that any aftermarket fuse causes widespread harm to the sound in anything. Maybe widespread panic among certain uber skeptics. They don’t cause cancer either. There is no joy in Mudville today. geoff kait machina dynamica |
OK, Al, I’ll see it your way, "beyond a reasonable doubt" it is. My assertions are beyond a reasonable doubt. Not beyond a reasonable doubt for you and Moopman perhaps but for someone who will listen to reason. I notice you did not actually present a counter argument to my assertions. That must be a lawyer trick. Case closed. ;-). If people spent as much brain power trying to figure out how something works rather than trying to figure out why it can’t work they would be much better off, to paraphrase PT Barnum. geoff kait |
Moopman wrote, ""fear for the gullible" If it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t waste my time challenging anything one can read in these parts. Does anyone doubt there are some who obviously and shamelessly prey on the gullible? That’s a sin. No technology or science or 30 day guarantees will change that one." Your uh Amish upbringing is showing. You probably just need to get out a little more. You'll be OK. "Keep an open mind. Just not so open all your brains fall out." - Old Skeptics' expression "Folks would probably be much better off generally speaking if they believed in too much rather than too little." - PT Barnum cheerios, geoff kait |
Ya gotta figure anyone with lofi in his moniker is probably not really into the whole HiFi experience and most likely has a great big chip on his shoulder. This is an assertion, a theory, a hypotenuse. It has been my experience over the years that a lot of people out there are not into the whole demagnetizing CDs, WA Quantum Chip, cryogenics, Morphic messages, aftermarket fuses, Schumann Frequency, Holographic Foil, Mpingo disc thing and frankly would rather fight than switch. Thus the influx of pseudo skeptics, recording engineers, electronics wizards and the like. What I’d like to know is, did someone forget to leave the roach motels out the last couple of nights? geoff kait machina dramatica |
Jon wrote, " ...better than ever to me I'm sure the fuse helps along with the six Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's I rolled into my preamp. Plus the new RCA rectifier and trio of RCA 6SN7's I just rolled into my amp. Oh and the stillpoints universal resonance dampers under the preamp and Gregitek Aries Graf footers under my amp and Sonos Connect. And can't forget the Wyred for sound Remedy reclocking device betwixt my Sonos and Dac, Needless to say its been quite a flurry of tweaks and upgrades in a very non-scientific manner in terms of assessing the efficacy of each, but the overall effect is very nice indeed. FWIW." Just curious, if as you say you installed a bunch of tweaks simultaneously how can you attribute any change in sound to the Wyred for Sound Remedy or to anything else in particular? You even commented yourself how non-scientific it is to assess the efficacy of each tweak. Hel-loo! Geoff Kait Martian Dynamica |
Georgelofi wrote, "Hey whitestix. That looks very much like a voodoo doll as GK’s avatar, that could explain it all. Out of 3000 posts GK you’ve only contributed 3 discussions to this forum, and they are beauties!!! https://forum.audiogon.com/users/geoffkait/discussions Cheers George" So, what’s your point? Or are you just posting to bump up your numbers whilst advertising your tweakaphobe status? Cheerios geoff kait machina dramatica advanced audio concepts |
Exhibit A - Audio Magic Premier Super Fuse and Beeswax Fuse description. Anyone not seeing the connection to the SR Black Fuse raise your hand. I won't even mention the connection to the list of assertions, theories, educated guesses, whatever why aftermarket fuses improve the sound provided by your humble scribe. "Audio Magic is known for having the quietest, best sounding fuses on the market today. When it comes to innovative fuse design we accomplish this by stopping noise in a variety of ways that no one else does. a. Stop the element from vibrating at 50/60 hz which is a huge noise component. We accomplish this by injecting the fuse with a proprietary liquid anti vibration material that stops the vibrating element in it's tracks. b. Injecting the fuse with our Black Out mixture which gobbles up internal and external EMI and RF. c. Treat the fuse with our Nano Streaming process which brings the crystalline structure of any metal in the fuse closer together thus removing static discharge in the fuse as well as making all metal parts better conductors. d. Incorporating our exclusive i Core Technology in the Premier line, this process allows for the energy going through the fuse to do so in a very uniform manner thus increasing efficiency. Nano Premium Liquid Fuse This is our entry level fuse which incorporates a mixture of our anti-vibration fluid and Black Out material blended together. Super Fuse This fuse is filled with a 1/3 anti-vibration material and 2/3 Super Black Out mixture for even better EMI and RF control. Premiere Super Fuse This fuse is just like the standard Super Fuse, only we've add our NEW i Core Technology to the fuse. Premier Bees wax Super Fuse This fuse is identical to the Premier Super Fuse only we've replaced the standard anti-vibration material with Bees Wax [ a very intense process ]. This fuse gives all the great attributes of the Standard Premier with a very organic flavor. All Audio Magic fuses have had extensive testing done to make sure the fuses blow at the ratings the manufacturer intended, and, no, they will not leak as the fluid solidifies after about an hour of being in." Back to our regular scheduled programming. Lol Geoff Kait at Machina Dynamica |
Skeptics almost always think when someone says, "It was huge" or "it took my breath away" or "it was equivalent to a component change" it’s rhetoric or it’s hyperbole. I.e., that it MUST be an exaggeration, or perhaps a (gulp) shill. They NEVER think for a minute the statements might be true. This is especially true when the subject of controversial tweaks comes up, you know, tweaks like aftermarket fuses or tweaks that are very small - at least in the mind of the uber Skeptic way TOO small to do much of anything. That’s precisely why fuses have been controversial for twenty years. Along with Mpingo discs, tiny little bowl resonators, quantum chips, Marigo VTS dots, Silver Rainbow Foil, things of that nature. There is a fine line between being a skeptic and being overly suspicious. Lol |
"OP - One of my fuses was used and the other was new. I never checked on hours though. The PWD has two fuses and replacing either with a Red (new or used) always hurt the cause. It's been a while so I don't remember the exact details, but I did run them in for at least three days (the DAC is always on). My comparisons to the stock fuses happened after that." Al, now THAT is anecdotal. ;-) |
Cal wrote, "geoffkait - Ha. Sorry for not being more rigorous, but I spend that currency at work. And to be fair, there’s precious little science (or even real EE knowledge, Al excepted) being communicated on these forums. Might as well be the anti-vaccine crowd with the way people regularly ---- on blind listening tests while extolling the virtues of their subjective experience." I know there's an Appeal to Authority in there somewhere. geoff kait machina dynamica we do artificial atoms right |
"actually think it makes a lot of sense that the fuse is important as it is. The best way would be no fuse at all but can’t do that. So considering all power comes through that fuse, before i spend 1000 dollars on a power cord, I should probably take a look at the power fuse.." Not to be repetitive but some reasons why the fuse is actually critical include but are not limited to it’s exposed to RFI, it’s exposed to vibration, it’s exposed to magnetic fields, it’s a conductor, thus purer and/or better metal conductors and end caps are audible. For starters I would specify 5 nines silver or 7 nines copper for the fuse wire, end caps and the fuse holder. It's not rocket science, folks. |
"OK, fuse has been in all weekend.the glare that made many recording unbearable to listen to is pretty much gone. That's a good thing. However, it still seems to be lacking in bass and the emotional musicality is also missing. Hope it comes back soon." So I suppose the 64,000 dollar question is: is the fuse in the "right" direction? cheers |
