georgehifi
Finally I just installed the fuse with direction along with the flow of electricity and decided to leave it then.
"Hate to tell you, but AC electricity doesn’t flow, it alternates back and forward 50 or 60 time a second (50hz 60hz) depending which country your in. So the directionality of an ac mains fuses is all "expectation bias". You’d have better cred if you belived in the tooth fairy."
It’s not really "electricity" that is alternating, it’s the current that’s alternating. The voltage is not alternating. Otherwise they’d call it AV. Furthermore as we’ve discussed many many times all fuses, even bog standard fuses, exhibit voltage drops that are slightly different depending on direction - even in AC circuits! [Refer to HiFi tuning data sheets.] So fuses ARE directional with respect to conductivity, even in AC circuits. Hel-loo! Also recall we aren’t worried about the direction back toward the wall anyway, only the direction toward the speakers. So the alternating current argument is dead in the water. And when someone says, "in the direction of the flow of electricity" that means in the direction TOWARD the speakers and AWAY from the wall. The electricity does eventually get to the speakers, doesn’t it?
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Al, regardless of your point about voltage being alternating, which may be true who knows, it doesn’t change the fact - as you well know - that resistance and therefore conductivity is measured as being different by 5% depending on which direction the fuse is inserted. Even in AC circuits. Your argument about voltage was the response to a trap I set especially for you. Nice try! The same argument I just made for only worrying about the current flowing toward the speakers and ignoring the current flowing toward the wall can be made for voltage. Hel-loo! Ohms Law! Gimme a break! 😛
geoff
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Who cares if it's true or not? It's a red herring. Duh! |
geoffkait: Who cares if it’s true or not? It's a red herring! Duh!
Cleeds: If you live in the real world, Truth Matters.
Cleeds old buddy, I’m afraid you either haven’t been following very closely this whole fuse directionality discussion or you’re pretending to be dense. If the later is true you’re doing an excellent job. Fuses - all fuses - have been measured to have lower resistance in one direction than the other. And they measure like that even in AC circuits. That means, my good fellow, it doesn’t matter whether current alternates OR whether voltage alternates. The fuses are still directional.
Have a nice day
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GeorgeHiFi wrote,
I asked for factual scientific non audio related data, any data supplied by the company selling the fuse can be dismissed as hearsay.
Cheers George
Have you tried contacting NASA or Dept. of Defense?
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GeorgeHiFi, were you sleeping through class again? The fuse information has been discussed many times. The HiFi Tuning web site contains the independently measured voltage drop data for all types of fuses, both directions, including HiFi Tuning, stock fuses, other aftermarket fuses, cryo’d versions of those fuses, glass fuses, ceramic fuses, fuses in DC circuits, fuses in AC circuits. To summarize the results of the fuse data: all fuses measure differently depending on direction of the fuse in the circuit because the fuses are physically and electrically, uh, directional. And if I can be so bold, that is why they sound different depending on direction. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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They certainly won't sound different to those who cannot hear.
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georgehifi
Give us all the links Geoff so we can all read it, instead of asking us to believe your hearsay.
Get them yourself. Is your arm broken? |
The HiFi Tuning fuse data sheets have been discussed like forever. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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George, what you actually posted was,
"Please post links to proven scientific data on this, not just hearsay."
You initially said nothing about the data being non-audio related which doesn’t make any sense anyway, since who is going to care about fuse directionality except for audiophiles? Duh! You keep changing your story, which is mostly boloney anyway. By the way I like your expression "proven scientific data" - does that mean it’s been blessed by MIT? NASA? The Pope?
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Georgie old boy, the link was provided to you and you either didn’t see it or you’re pretending not to see it. It’s no skin off my nose but in any case obviously you don’t know the distinction between evidence and proof. Data of any type, including fuse data can only be considered evidence, not proof. Maybe you should consider something like a refresher course in science and logic, who knows.
Have a nice day, or night, whatever
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Georgie old bean it was posted yesterday about 7 posts up by Rodman.
"Do I see a vacuum there or am I going blind?" 😬
have a nice day
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Obviously this is just a case of complete denial. We have testimony/evidence of fuses sounding different depending on direction from almost everyone who has actually listened. We have actual data - from a third party tester - that shows differences in conductivity for fuses - all types of fuses, including stock fuses - according to direction, even in AC circuits. Fuses are also measurably sensitive to cryogenic treatment, purity of metals employed, type of fuse body, vibration control, and other things. Not to mention wire directionality has been known for ICs and speaker cables for like forever. At least 25 years. Hel-loo! Al and George must believe directional Arrows on cables and interconnects, even ones that are unshielded, is part of some worldwide conspiracy the likes of which the world has never known. This belief in a worldwide conspiracy obviously extends to fuses. I know what you’re thinking - the Laws of physics and electricity cannot suffer fuse directionality. It cannot be! But if aftermarket fuses were NOT effective and were NOT directional certainly those aftermarket fuse companies like HiFi Tuning and Isoclean that have been around for at least 15 years would have gone under by now. Al and George, the evidence is piling up. Hel-loo!
Al and George are the poster children for the Backfire Effect, where someone is determined, against all evidence, to cling to his beliefs. In fact, the more evidence that’s presented the stronger the belief becomes. It is the same thing as complete denial. One wonders what’s next from the terrible twosome - the accusation that those who believe in fuse directionality must also believe in UFOs?
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Oh, one more thing. Its worth pointing out lawyers like you know who are trained to ignore evidence, disparage contradictory or actual evidence, twist facts and put all of their energy into getting their client off the hook at all costs, even when they know the client is guilty. If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit. |
Woofie, I can certainly understand all your angst. It most likely stems from a rather significant inferiority complex and never having seen the inside of a library. So sad. 😄
Tom, good luck with all those shear thingies. |
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Back at ya, Georgie Boy, except in your case it’s an epidemic of a propensity for density.
Have a nice day, mate |
Theaudiotweak, you’re so funny! What fuses do I use? Ha ha ha
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I have 2 Acme Audio wall outlets, also silver plated, here now but don’t use them as I’m independent of house AC. I also had one of their silver plated fuse holders way back when. Super Duper! Say, wasn’t Acme Audio Bob Crump’s company along with TG Audio? I’m pretty sure I got my first two Acme wall outlets from him back in 2000, they’re most likely still at my previous abode. The name Acme of course comes from the company the coyote in Roadrunner cartoons would send away to for all those cool contraptions like rocket powered skates and so forth. |
What I say in public is not what I do at home? Wow! Whoa! Did you really say that? What on Earth are you going on about? I dare say we have a brand new conspiracy. You saw it here first, folks. Besides spring board thingies as you call them are better than the Sistrum ever thought of being. That’s why LIGO the experiment to detect gravity waves uses uh, springy things. Besides simple "spring board thingies" are generally a one-axis pony, anyway. Pretty sure I can tell when you’re saying something wrong. It’s when your mouth moves. I will admit I like it when you use $50 words like stasis and shear.
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Whoa! Hey, is there like a full moon out tonight?
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theaudiotweak
I miswrote previous.
So with LIGO you could not place and playback any audio system in the same room as LIGO ..without IT being corrupted by the transmission of any shear wave or compressive wave..For LIGO to succeed outside its container it must duplicate that same containment where ever it travels. In your home with electronics that generate wave types from transformers motors and speakers LIGO would be a storage device for such wave types. Those devices would include diaphragms contained inside headphones and any device that has a power source or motor to drive those. They all generate shear waves and compressive waves as part of their motion .
Think about the possibility of eliminating all forms of motion..compressive and shear..then what Geoff?.Can you hear that? Anything.....Tom
I'm not sure what you’re going on about. LIGO’s extremely comprehensive vibration isolation system(s) are intended to reduce background mechanical noise to the point where the experiment is sufficiently sensitive to differentiate gravity waves, which are extraordinarily minute, from the background noise. What is the background noise I’m talking about? Well, in the case of LIGO - way out in the boondocks - that’s primarily seismic type mechanical noise produced by Earth crust motion (microseismic vibration), the primary energy of which is located down around 0 to 3 Hz. Since the interferometer I.e., laser shoots down a tunnel around 3 km long to a mirror and back, there's plenty of room for error. Therefore, extremely low resonant frequencies Fr for the isolating systems are required. So, if you could construct a LIGO at home you could obtain superior audio performance. How much is good enough? You might have to deal with acoustic waves (which are also mechanical in nature) and any residual noise on the top plate of isolation devices however that is produced with damping.
LIGO Also employs very robust vacuums around test equipment, recall vacuums are excellent at NOT transmitting mechanical noise. When I was in the exhibit with Mapleshade he had a brand spanking new Nachamichi Dragon CD player with separate DAC. The player had the capability of forming a relatively good vacuum seal around the CD transport when a CD was played. The entire Nachamichi system was isolated on my 6 degree of freedom Sub Hertz Nimbus Platform, the top plate of which employee special and highly effective dampers to deal with residual vibration on the top plate. Sort of a precursor to LIGO you could say, since that was just around the time LIGO began about 20 years ago.
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theaudiotweak
So would the vacuum of LIGO be able to prevent electron motion and its resulting vibration generated externally from an alternating current on a filament inside a fuse?
>>>>>>>The LIGO vacuum is intended as another seismic vibration *stage* - it’s not a cure all. If you wish to prevent 60 HZ hum in AC power cord or in the fuse just use *damping*. It’s not rocket science. Whereas robust vibration isolation is more complicated, no so easy. In fact that’s precisely what a lot of the modern audiophiles fuses use to address vibration - damping. Hel-loo! That’s why you will see in the HiFi Tuning data results ceramic fuses generally sound better because they don’t vibrate as much as glass. I myself would never think of leaving fuses undamped, same goes for anything carring a signal that is vulnerable to vibration, or that produces vibration, you know, like transformers and capacitors. But I digress. I’m not telling you anything you don’t know, one trusts.
Theaudiotweak
While the ac signal is not the smallest or largest wave motion it is the first in line of the many that will follow. Heck many audio companies claim the source is the most important of signals...could it be the ac fuse..is so vital as it is the first component inside most audio devices.
Hanging on this hair thin element is an 8 gauge power cord ..what kinda battle of scale and competing forces is that one. Just a projected image..Tom
>>>>>>If you’re worried about induced vibration of some kind use damping. You’ve got much bigger problems with external vibration and vibration produced by motors and transformers. Case solved. Just because a signal is a wave doesn't necessarily mean it vibrates.
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Tom, you are obviously from the old Michael Green school of "let the vibrations free to roam." I am from the school of "the only vibration is a dead vibration." You seem to be completely ignoring seismic vibrations, I.e., structureborne vibration. That’s exactly what the Michael Green school preaches. The Michael Green school has an almost fanatical aversion to damping, just like you. You come from a long line of naysayers. The Michael Green school preaches that the audio signal is vibration - just like you do - and he has same almost cultish argument that you do - that because the audio signal is a wave it must be vibration, so that damping kills the audio signal, kills the sound. It’s like you two guys were joined at the waist.
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Theaudiotweak
With a friend and associate we have identified wave types that cause interference and therefore inefficiencies in some materials and objects. We are at work on ways to reduce and eliminate those type. Isolation methods your school suggests do not and cannot separate out the needed wave portion from the one that causes interference. You need to start looking again as you stopped decades ago. Tom
>>>>>All I can say at this point is you and your friend are on a witch hunt, a wild goose chase. It’s all been identified. If there was anything left to discover trust me, LIGO would have found it and I would have found it. If there was any form of wave or vibration, anything physical, that could have gotten through and NOT been annihilated by LIGO’s isolation system, LIGO would never have been able to detect gravity waves that have an amplitude of an atomic nucleus. But they DID detect them. You are in denial. You actually believe, like Michael Green, that the audio signal is vibration. And you believe in coupling as opposed to isolation and damping. Whether you knew him or not you’re two peas in a pod. So it’s no wonder you’re off on a wild goose chase. Your news is fake!
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Tom, Wow! That’s amazing! I can’t believe it! That’s exactly what Michael Green would have said. You’re just like him. You’re his clone and don’t know it. 😬
An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. - Old audiophile axiom
God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. - Judge Judy |
Almarg
By the way, FWIW that document does indicate that those fuses are compliant with various MIL-STDs (military standards) for vibration, as well as for thermal shock, humidity, and salt spray. Although of course those standards are intended to assure reliability under adverse conditions, not to assure good sonics in an audio system.
Good point. 😀 Gosh, I wonder if NASA manned missions test for good sonics in electrical systems....hey, I know! Let's get AES to do fuse testing. 😛
Almarg
To give some perspective to the 0.08 volt drop in the resistance of the fuse I used as an example in my previous post. It’s worth noting that in the USA AC line voltages are considered to be in spec if they are anywhere within a 12 volt range, between 114 and 126 volts at the circuit breaker panel.
Why is that worth noting? Seems totally irrelevant. It actually sounds like the Nixon argument regarding the missing 18 minutes on the Watergate tapes, that compared to the total time of audio on the tapes 18 minutes is insignificant. 😃
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Damage Control! Damage Control! Report to bridge!
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Big deal! It's a Red Herring. Ignore the AV just like the AC when it’s traveling in the direction toward the wall outlet. You can’t hear what’s headed toward the wall outlet, only what's headed toward the speakers. That’s why fuses are directional in both DC circuits and AC circuits. CASE CLOSED.
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Al, let us know how that works out. The rest of us have already done the experiment. Hel-loo!
Cheers,
Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
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How so Georgie Boy? Everyone has a first post. Was your first post shilling? You don't have to answer that.
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Nonoise
Bernard Hermann had a big influence on me way back when and is responsible for my appreciation of modern day soundtracks. I like to call these pieces mini-classical in nature as they generally use an orchestra, or parts of, and the pieces are short but can be dynamic in nature. They can also be soft and beguiling, lulling one into reverie. Yes, those massed strings.
Ah, yes! As in Hitchcock’s black comedy, Psycho.
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shadorne
"Anyone who is building “high-end” products that are limited by power supply performance should find a different business."
Quote above from reputable audio equipment manufacturer
For audiophiles that need special power cords or fuses, the above statement can be adapted to;
"Anyone who is buying “high-end” products that are limited by power supply performance should find a different product."
>>>>>OK, Mr. Smarty Pants. Name one. Bet you can't. Get real.
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analogluvr
Just a heads up that somebody took apart one of those purifiers and it was a two dollar resister inside. I believe it shows a pic on Cam in a thread about that same product.
Gotta link to that pic? I thought not. |
georgehifi 2,593 posts 06-17-2017 9:26pm analogluvr323 posts06-17-2017 8:27am Just a heads up that somebody took apart one of those purifiers and it was a two dollar resister inside. I believe it shows a pic on Cam in a thread about that same product. This is one, just a .025ohm resistor, there are others, if anyone wants to shatter their dreams. From diyAudio forums. http://i52.tinypic.com/2r4q7h3.jpg Cheers George George, I bet you and analogluvr actually believe it's just an ordinary resistor. This is reminiscent of the time when a budding skeptic took an Intelligent Chip to his local metallurgy lab for analysis with a scanning electron microscope. He reported the microscope observed certain metals on each side of the small metal disc but no "quantum material" was found, presumably intimating a hoax had taken place. Sadly for the budding skeptic, the quantum material was sandwiched between the metal layers, invisible to prying eyes. |
wolf_garcia
An active room neutralizer would be a great thing to have when your relatives start arguing during the holidays.
That's so true! Not to mention when all your audio buds come over for a listening session with lots of beer, tacos and bean dip.
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georgehifi geoffkait: George, I bet you and analogluvr actually believe it’s just an ordinary resistor. Oh yes they are, nothing more ,nothing less. unless they’ve had some sort of voodoo spell cast on them, they are just plain Pacific brand power resistors. http://www.pacificresistor.com/ Cheers George And all this means what? That Bybee is a crook? That his products are not quantum mechanical but ordinary plain resistors and whatever? That the Bybee reviews are rigged? That this Bybee stuff is nothing more than placebo effect and expectation bias? That everyone except you is delusional? That it’s group hypnosis? All of the above? |
Georgie old bean, let's put things into their correct perspective, shall we? I've forgotten more electronics than you ever knew. Assuming you ever knew any.
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George, Wow! You really can’t see the forest for the trees, can you? This is probably just a case of a little knowledge can sometimes be a dangerous thing.
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Whoa! What!! Hey, even I can’t Google that fast. Gimme a break. Where's the trust? |
There you have it folks. Someone who understands Ohm’s Law and who can work out an electronics math problem. But also someone who steadfastly does not believe the claim that wire is directional - even when presented with the Ohm’s Law results of wire tests (HiFi Tuning). And they both have HiFi in their name. Anyone who doesn’t see the irony raise your hands.
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Looking in the mirror again, eh? And stop using my lines! As I’ve intimated recently those who think that fuses are controversial haven’t seen anything yet. If you’re having conniptions now just wait’ll you get a load of what I’ve got up my sleeve.
Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Concepts
A sufficiently advanced technology is oft mistaken for voodoo.
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Bybee took quantum mechanics in school more than 60 years ago. That’s only about 15 years after quantum mechanics was "invented." Just don’t mention quantum mechanics anywhere around naysayers unless you want to witness a real mud fight.
There’s no fine line between quantum mechanics and classical physics. - Old audiophile expression
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The ubiquitous CD laser itself is a quantum mechanical device. Hel-loo! Specifically, a quantum well. So are WA Quantum Chips quantum mechanical. (Hence the word Quantum in their name.) So is the Intelligent Chip. One reason it's so intelligent, one assumes. So are the Bybee purifiers. He used to work in submarines. As I predicted the naysayers go bonkers over the words, quantum mechanics. Why, shucks, off the top of my head at least five of my products work quantum mechanically. No big deal. |
shadrone
My point is that not everything that exists or existed will affect the audio signal in a meaningful way. Simple existence of acid rain does not mean we need to be concerned about it for audio reproduction of music.
Huh? That doesn’t make sense. No one ever said everything that exists or existed affects the audio signal in a meaningful way. What’s next, the sky is not purple? Thanks for the excellent example of a Strawman argument.
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a25105
I am with Tommylion on this. I don't give a damn how or why this works and all the theories behind it. It doesn't mean a thing to me if it does not sound good, Period. I don't think people should post any negative comments on it if you have not heard what the device can do to your system. For me there are only 2 things matter. 1. the device has to make my system sound better and 2. price that I can afford. It is that simple. Come on guys, don't make life more complicated if you don't have to!
That's all well and good, I suppose, however it would serve some purpose, some higher purpose to determine whether the Bybee device in question is, in fact, a quantum mechanical device as it's purported to be or a plain ordinary stock resistor, no? It's almost always better to try and get to the bottom of a thing rather than slough it off. Saying something like I don't care how it works but works it does it actually one of my least favorite reviewer comments, one made all too frequently. Aren't they capable of analysis or possess curiosity?
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I’m the complete opposite. I need to know. I MUST know! Yeah, baby! There's a supermassive black hole smack dab in the middle of our galaxy with a mass of several billion Suns. And you're not curious why?
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a25105
Geoffkait,
You have the right to do what you want in life and I respect that. Please update us here if you ever find the answer. For me, I will continue to enjoy my music that brings me joy and happiness. Life is just too short.
Allan
That's mighty decent of you, Allan. Enjoy the music. Sorry for the interruption.
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shadorne
@geoffkait
Why a supermassive black hole in the centre of our galaxy?
Because the supreme creator speaks to us through music! We may be made in the creators image but the galaxy is made in the image of a giant turntable with a black hole at the center and Earth being in the grooviest place.
>>>>>Whoa! What!! Steve Jobs speaks to us through music on the iPad? Get outta here!
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A new comedian is born.
"Eddie Murphy didn't have to swear to be funny." - The Sklar brothers |
