Stylus Rake Angle


I am trying to set up my new VPI 3D arm as close to perfection as I can. On the Analog Planet, Michael Fremer gives one opinion, however, a different opinion was voiced by Harry at VPI, and Peter at Soundmith. I've been discussing this with them....Fremer says that SRA should be adjusted even if the back end of the arm is WAY high up as needed, whereas Harry, and Peter said to start with the arm in a horizontal position and move it slightly up and down to find the sweet spot. Peter said that my cartridge (Benz LPS) and some others have an additional facet in the diamond so bringing the arm up in back would be exaggerating the proper SRA. When I wrote back to Fremer, he answered with an insistance that he was correct. Does anyone want to add to the confusion??
128x128stringreen
Karl_desch,

It's hard to imagine anyone designing a cartridge for something other than headshell-parallel-to-LP-surface. Why would they do that? It would restrict sales of their own product. Every tonearm on earth, even the wacky RS-A1, is designed to place the cartridge mounting surface parallel to the record.

This doesn't change with stylus profile. I have cartridges with all sorts of styli: conical, elliptical, micro-ridge. All sound best with the tonearm (fairly close to) level. A touch of tail up or tail down? Perhaps. But nothing extreme.

This makes Fremer's reported advice (in the OP) to jack the back of a tonearm up very high quite suspect. He either didn't say that or he wasn't thinking clearly when he did.

***

Peter,

Your recollection of what I hear when tweaking SRA was accurate. The most concise description I've heard was Frank Schroeder's, "Adjust for proper timing between fundamental and harmonics." He said that and moved on to another subject, as if he'd described everything we needed to know. And so he had.

If someone doesn't know what that sounds like, they need to get away from amplified music and listen to acoustic instruments in natural environments. It's easy to hear mis-timed harmonics in a mandolin or harpsichord pluck. Electic guitars are more congested. Tracker-action organs like the one E. Power Biggs built in Cambridge are easy, at least when played staccato. A Sears Silvertone? Not so much.

Of course the more resolving the cartridge and system, the easier this is to hear. Lower resolution setups may not reproduce enough audible harmonic information. If they do, they may smear things enough so that timing shifts actually do sound like a change in frequency balance. This may account for different descriptions of what people hear when adjusting arm height.

Dear Stringreen: ++++++ " What I did today was LISTEN. " +++++

that's all about.

+++++ " The arm is a bit high, but not absurdly so which the microsope dictated. " +++++

as Dougdeacon I posted several times that those 92 degrees could be a start number as could be 89 or 91 or whatever. 92 is not a compromise, perhaps and only by coincidence ( at random ) what you listened in a specific LP grooves can be that 92 but in the next one will be different.

LP are way imperfect items. For some time now and in some LP titles I bought two samples ( same lot. ) and I can tell you that even here both can/could sounds tiny different.

Now, what's important is to have a well proved VTA/SRA self test process that in almost any " escenario " can works and be repetable.

That test process must has a reference/standard against you will/can compare it. Best reference can be live music at near field listening because normally recording microphones are " near field " position against where we are seated in a concert hall.

IMHO could be a mistake to make comparisons against our latest set up when that set up was made with a different reference/standards. In the other side and even with the same reference we have to ask our self: what if that set up was " wrong " even that we like it and that we are accustom to?

++++ " Because the arm was raised, the VTF is now probably a bit too light, the Azimuth, is probably skewed....I'm too tired to futz with this arm.... " +++++

not only that butyou need to reset something more critical: overhang, because if not then you will have always a higher tracking distortion and all the other set up parameters could help almost for nothing because the overhang was moved with those VTA/SRA/VTF chanes.

Now, the right cartridge VTA/SRA set up depends on the audio system/room quality performance level and your self knowledge level on how live MUSIC ( near field. ) sounds.

IMHO DYNAMICS is the main live MUSIC characteristic that we " want " to even in our system ( with out success. ) and the one that contribute the more for comparisons. Main definition of that Dynamics is how we perceive both frequency extremes in a live event, any deficience in the bass range or HF range goes against dynamics. Precision, definition, accuracy, velocity and natural coloration and agresiveness are part of changes on dynamics.
I think we have to look for in our systems through analize quality performance at both frequency extremes and very especial on the bass that IMHO put the frame for the reproduced sounds in he audio system.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Just to comment on Karl_desch's post above, we all assume (expensive!) cartridge manufacturers ensure the styli are mounted correctly on the cantilever: then starting with a parallel base should work if designed properly and within VTF recommended range but Fremner examined some (expensive!) ones and found significant variations which apparently came as a complete surprise to the cartridge manufacturer who outside sourced styli/cantilevers. Assuming correct orientation may be unwise.
I forgot: with out that " perfect " Dynamics what you are hearing is only sounds but no MUSIC, Dynamics put/contribute to other live music characteristic: rythmum.

R.
Doug, your final assessment is spot on and is absolute since what proper timing sounds like at the stylus tip is exactly the same as what it sounds like on all the rest of the gear individually and is a perfect reference. Perfect because the same transitional changes will take place during adjustment no matter what the gear is and therefore represents an ideal model.