Sonic Frontiers to Conrad Johnson .

Athens , i really thought you were in fact kidding. Sorry. Its hard to tell in writing sometimes. Didnt mean to offend. I do agree with newbee in that the CJ gear i have had in my system was not warn and colored by any means . Those days have come and gone i believe and the musicality of top end CJ gear is second to none yet articulation of the musical notes is clean and accurate. I think the chain is a determining factor of course but i find quite frankly their new products inspiring. I had access to the Sonic Frontiers line stage a couple of months ago and it was as you said , clean and fast but did not remotely posess the soundstaging properties , decay nor musicality the CJ had in spades. Its just my singular experience and is to be taken as such.

It couldn't hurt trying to listen to some different speakers (?) I'm only suggesting this because usually people that love the big, warm, lush, sound have something like old Tannoy 15 inchers or similar crazy stuff.

Regarding the SF Line 1: I have a buddy who has a Line 1 in front of a Canary power amp and Audio Note speakers. Believe me he has incredible, musical, big and warm sound - but his sound isn't out of control warm. It still rocks extremely convincingly.

A Line 1 or Power 2 shouldn't prevent you from having big and warm if your speakers and source are right. Example, if you're going to use a Benchmark DAC you'd probably have issues getting big, warm, lush, to hell with accuracy sound. It wasn't designed for that.

Both of us + other of our buddies have heard different B&W Nautilus models hooked up in various tube-based systems and they have never sounded big and warm. Clean would describe them best (and hard on top too, at least to our ears).

Not trying to insult your speakers, but if they weren't designed to do big, warm, and lush, then any system that they're in will have issues doing big, warm and lush.

I am using Line 1 with Power 2 driving ProAc Response 1SC with Cardas Golden Cross speaker cable.

I did a blind test on my friends by covering the equipments and asked them to comment on the sound. And all have the same answer "Warm sound! Typical tube sound"

So I think it is unfair to say Sonic Frontiers gears sound cold. Speaker played an important part and also speaker cable.

I have the exact same system. The Power 2/Line 1 and the ProAc 1SC's (birdseye maple). I've heard them pull a dissapearing act, but I had the same problem with them as I do w/ my big B&W's- thin sound-no warmth. I'm using 1M Straightwire Encore(red) from my CD to the Pre and 4M Rhapsody(blue) from Pre to Amp. Speaker is Serenade. The Amp is on its own stand spiked to the floor and the Pre and CD are on a Target stand spiked to the floor. I've had the system in 3 different rooms in 2 different houses. Same result. Tried placing equiptment on different supports w/ a combination of cones. I suspect that the cables are not helping and I have'nt experimented enought with them. But like 'newbee' said (above); 'tonally cold'. I hope the Conrad Johnson 16LSII that I just bought helps. I get it next week and I'll let you know the differences.

I have owned a Line3 and Power3s for several years and have owned a Premier 11A and Premier 12s during this time also. I know the SF sound very well as well as CJ. The SF power amplifiers do have the tube bite/lushness but in a different way than CJ. With SVET 6550Cs and 500+ hours of use, the midrange is quite nice and are well mated to speakers that may be tipped in the high-end. CJs premier 11As have a very nice midrange but lack the bottom end. The 12s are very punchy, dynamic, but are very extended in the highend. SF is on the cooler side of CJ for sure. For control of difficult speakers (wide impedance swings), the Power series amps can't be beaten.

With regard to preamps, the SF line series is pretty nuetral sounding but not solid state sounding. Replacing the main output 6922s with Mullard will yeild some very nice textures in the midrange if that is what you are desiring (excellent for vocals). The CJ preamps will be more warm but lack the detail that the SF line series will present. Personal perference will determine which is better.

Several folks have commented on your speakers. The B&Ws are not warm speakers at all. You can change the upstream electronics all you like but the source (What are you using by the way?) and the speakers will make the biggest difference. If you want to experiment with the preamp/amp, borrow a CJ preamp and see what you think. I'd leave the Power2 alone for now as you'll need Premier 12s or a 140 at a minimum to drive the B&Ws. Along with the preamp, I'd experiment with different sources as well.