Should Sound Quality of Computer Audio be improved

Chadeffect- I don't know how many times I have said it.
The best Digital that I have ever heard is the Dianna Krall, "The Look Of Love" Advanced Resolution 24/96 Multi-
Channel Meridian Lossless Packing Optical Disc. Does this
release even resemble a Home Theatre Release? I am strictly
two Channel, but I can Downmix 24/96 High Res. Multi-Channel MLP Optical Disk to two Channels. Still unsure how
to Downmix Two Channel 24/96 Download. What do I get, a
Mono Channel? Sure, I will give up my MLP for that one!
This is what you are demanding of me?
Speaking of demanding, how can you demand anything?
You cajoule, defend, argue, demand- and still you come up
empty of examples Hfisher3380! Did that mirror shatter when
you looked into it? Everytime you open your mouth you are an example! Not just an example; but, proof positive of your intent. You are the Charade! You have made your opinion quite clear, and still you want to play a silly game that you have stated "No Opinion". I don't need any
example. You are what you are- don't need any proof positive of that! You are self explanatory; because you are
transparent. Computer Audio remains an extremely redundant
self defeating exercise. I have no desire to entertain your reduntant exercise. Life is too short. You know, as
well as I do, as well as everyone does what your position is on this subject. We have to prove it to you? Hire
someone else to do it! It is certainly not my job, not my task, and I wont waste my time on it. Sorry- ask ten more times, and you will get the same answer! "Soon all New
Music will only be available as Music Downloads", is your
Commandment. It is your goal. Go ahead and blaspheme against your Computer God, and tell me different. Tell me
you are Judas- I don't care! I am not paying you any
Silver- nor any attention. Cry all you want to.
All of these things are simply distractions from the
fact that you "DO NOT" have High Res. Download Selections
enough to fill the void of High Res. Optical Disks. You are cutting out our Music by leaving this void, and leaving a High Res. Download I.O.U. in its place. I cannot listen to an I.O.U.; but, I can listen to a High Res. Optical Disk. A 32 Bit Download I.O.U., Multi-Channel 24/96 Download I.O.U., or a DXD Download I.O.U. wont cut it either. I am not taking an I.O.U. in lieu of a High Res. Disk that I can actually listen to. KEEP WORKING ON IT- or DON'T, and allow future High Res. anything die a miserable death. If R.I.P. is your specialty don't let me interfere with you. Just don't try to argue your doing this in the interest of Music instead of your egos. You expect me to believe otherwise...REALLY! K.O.A.- Keep Options Open on more than one Format. Your direct opposite of this is what, and what is the "NECESSARY" reason for it? Now there is the $64,000.00 question that cuts across High End Audio. Something a little more critical if you are into things maybe like...I don't know...MUSIC? If your not, then my bust for misunderstanding you. What are you into if not Music? Ruining it for everyone else? Narcistic powertrip? Sell shoes instead then- you will make more
money that way! LET IT BE- and just end this Thread. No
more responses. Let history be the judge, and let God sort out the dead Formats. THAT DOESN'T MEAN "YOU" PLAY GOD!!!
(Jeez! gotta spell out/ draw pictures on EVERYTHING-NUTS!)

My point, Hfisher, is if someone were to come out with an
High Resolution Optical Disc Format (With Properly Remastered Release) that turned out to sound better than
High Res. Downloads- I would still want both options. I
keep on seeing 32 Bit Mastered Optical Disks being sold on
"Elusive Disks". They claim that these Disks can still be played on a regular CD Player. New Releases of Vinyl on
much harder material in "180 Gram" might be promising- same
source. What I want is the freedom to try these things,
and determine for myself weither the Sound Quality is worth it or not. Of course quality of original Recording
will determine Sound Quality, unless Remastering really helps. Experimenting still going on, and I want to have the
options of trying these things. Still think Meridian Lossless Packing was the best sounding Optical Disk Format that I ever heard. I am still smarting from THAT option being yanked from the Music Selection Department. This is
what I see with my light bulb on, a whole lotta damn good
sounding Music going to waste. It isn't pretty. Single
Format market of Downloading, no matter how inevitable it
might be or if anyone desires it, could cost us alot in
selection of High Sound Quality Audio Formats. No Audio Market likes uncertainty, I don't like it either. This is
the reason that I need something really substantial in
Music Selection for whatever High Resolution Audio Format
the Audio Market accepts. Careful with those light bulbs,
you might not like what you see. You will see the "The Good-The Bad- and the Ugly" in sharp relief of any Format.
One question: Can't find "Ladies' Jazz Vol.5" on optical
Disk. I have been streaming it, and it sounds really good-
especially Julie London with tons of depth soundstage. I am getting the feeling that it only exists as MP3 or as a
Download. Can't tie down the source other than Warner Music Poland. Don't want to use i-Tunes, don't like mixing
MAC Software with Windows 7 PC. I had a hell of a time getting rid of it- not again! This isn't the first time that I have come across Music only available as a
Download. It won't be the last (Yeah, Yeah...I know. Just
Download it, and Burn it!). Would like to know of the original source. Can't seem to find it with many Downloadable releases- Uncertainty??? It isn't available in HD Tracks. Other than i-Tunes, where is it at?

Timlub. My Downloading whatever Music File then burning onto whatever Disk. How can this compare to a Mastering
Studio Remastering in DXD, then burning to Blue-Ray Audio,
Multi-Channel High Rez. MLP, SACD,....etc? It would be like
comparing your own home made Cassette Recording to a Master Analog Recording. Can you Remaster these Computer
Downloaded Files prior to burning? Again it is garbage in,
burning in Blue-Ray Audio doesn't nullify garbage out.
Professional Recording Studios have access to DXD, Remastering Software, and lets not forget the Master Analog Recording. Even with this the Pro's still occasionally screw up a Remastering. You are suggesting
that Joe the Plummer can do better Remastering in his
garage, on his laptop? All that he needs is the Downloaded
File, no matter what File Type that may be? Low Res. MP3
Downloaded Music File, Joe can convert/Remaster into a
High Res. 24/192 Music File of perfection? Garbage in-
The Mona Lisa out? Everyone should be capable of producing
a Remaster (From a Downloaded File) that sounds as good,
if not better, than that produced by Professional Studios? We elevate ourselves to Studio Quality Master
Recording Professionals, without any College Education,
or decades of experience in this profession? I am sure that if I study hard enough, I could learn how to perform
brain surgery on myself. Just let me practice on you first
to get the hang of it- deal? At some point here, where do
I actually get back to enjoying Music instead of supplanting it with learning how it is made. I pay someone
else to make Music so that I can spend sometime actually
listening, and enjoying it. You are turning an obssession
over a Hobby into a Lifetime Career Study. I would like to
get back to listening instead of 100% Studying as to how
Music is made. By your standard I should be able to build/ design my own Turntable, SACD-MLP-CD Player, Music Server,
Media Player. Spend all of my time doing that, who needs
to listen to stinking Music? Who would have the time? This
all sounds like a self-defeating process that peels you away from spending more time actually enjoying listening to
Music. Imagine your first CD player requiring self assembly
from the lowest basic set of parts. You have never seen a
CD Player before, it could take you years to learn how to assemble. Instructions are sketchy, ambiguous, and incomplete. I would buy this, why? Why would I buy the Computer Audio Version of this? It is not that I couldn't
learn- I could. It just becomes extremely inefficient in
accomplishing my task of listening to my Music Y-E-S-T-E-R-D-A-Y! I think that there is a shorter route between point
A and B. Rumor has it that a straight line is that shorter
route. Anyone mind if I try that to see if it is indeed
shorter instead of having to pass through Wasapi, Kernel
Streaming, and all manner of Software Processing? Sorry,
I don't know what got into me. Sacriledge! Inserting things
definitely makes for a shorter route. Light bulb definitely
makes that clear.
O-kay, I will muddle through it. I like to have options including Computer Audio/ Downloading- sure! I still demand Music while I muddle. That can only mean an
Optical Disk since I am still muddling. THIS is asking too
much in a proposed single Downloading Format Market? This
sounds like Darth Vader closing all of the exits again.
Not a very comforting thought. Do you mind keeping atleast
one exit slightly open for me O' Dark Lord of the Sith?
Well, you can't blame me for asking! No more pre-designed
Music Servers whose Software is obsolete two days ago. Much
prefer J.R. River Media Center Version 14 through 10,000,000. Just wake me up in ten years! Imagine the money
that I could save just jumping on J.R. Version 10,000,000.
T-H-R-I-F-T-Y!!!

Hfisher3380, you act like you have never heard of
"Headroom". I have tried many XRCD, XRCD 24, K2 HD CD.
All of them playable on standard CD Players. Obviously,
on 16 Bit/44.1 CD. The higher Sampling Rate of the Master
(Or Remaster) does make an audible difference! There was
a time when everyone believed that the Entropy of the
Universe could be reversed, and multiple generations of
CD Copies would sound exactly the same as the original.
Cooler heads prevailed, but now Entropy reversal myth is
back once again with Computer Files. Must we change all of
the Laws of the Universe with Flat Earth logic again? Been
there, done that! Can we learn from our mistakes, and
finally move on? You make a Copy you are going to lose
a little (Maybe insignificant to some, maybe significant
to others). If the original Copy is of a Higher Resolution
(If it is done correctly), maybe you will lose a little less with "MORE" Resolution Headroom in the Master. You can
argue the merits of this. I just know that I can hear a difference as opposed to original 16 Bit/ 44.1 Digital Masters used for CD. Concidering we ended up with 12 to 14 Bit Copies of these in CD, just about ANY improvement would be welcome. I certainly can hear it. Not to say that it is always perfect, nothing is in the Digital World. That
includes Computer Audio. That is the reason to take the
best from many Digital Formats including Computer Audio.
If "It is The Music that Matters", it is the only logical
thing to do. Single Format logic would be the anti-thesis
of this, even if this "Makes No Sense".

Chadeffect, I do trust my ears; however, don't I need the
ability to listen to it first? Will I ever be able to
truly listen for myself to a 24/196 Download compared to
a Remaster utilizing DXD (Disk, Downsampled, or not)? This will not happen in a Universe of "Soon all New Music will only be available as Downloads". I lose the ability to listen, compare, and judge the sound quality myself in a
proposed single Format Download Universe. I lose the ability to listen, or sample with my own ears. With the
lack of my ability to listen and judge for myself (In this
proposed Universe), who determines for me what level of
sound quality I am allowed to listen to. High Res.
Computer Audio Downloads become the new glass ceiling in
Sound Quality. In a Single Format Download World, how
would you even be allowed to discover anything else that
might possibly sound better? I want to be able to listen
for myself, not have my sound quality dictated to me
through limited 24/192 Downloading ceiling. Even the Music
Selection in 24/192 Downloading is another glass ceiling.
You limit your options for better sounding Formats in
limiting (or eliminating) other Formats. Only way to break
this glass ceiling is to concider that there might be
something out there that might still sound better than even
High Res. Downloads. Listen, and judge for yourself. Don't
allow someone else to dictate to you that "24/192 High Res.
Downloads is as good as it gets" through "Soon all New Music will only be available as Downloads". You certainly
wouldn't limit yourself to only one Format in "Soon all
New Music will only be available on Cassette". Would you
exclude yourself from all other Formats that came after the Cassette? Would you sandbag their possible development? If this had been done, even for the sake of
Manufacturers Profit (No competing Formats), the Manufacturers would certainly be shooting themselves in
their profitable foot! That is why I say Single Format is
horrible for Consumer, Manufacturer, and the Audio Market.
It becomes an irreversable LOSE, LOSE, LOSE situation.
There won't be any second chances! The Consumer loses his
authority, and his ability to compare quality in a single
Format Monopoly. You don't get it back afterwards, therefore don't paint yourself into that corner to begin with. You need the ability to listen first to be able to
judge "Music First" in comparing Formats. Only then can you determine if Recording Process/ Format was helpful, or
a hinderance. "Listen First" before "Music First" if you
want to do a fair comparison based on Sound Quality.
Otherwise, what exactly ARE you doing besides burning
money? Having a deaf man judge sound quality for you?

Chadeffect-
"I don't see your logic. Are you assuming that the
Artist wants their Music to sound bad? They want you to
hear them sound mediocre? They want to go out of business?
"I am trying to let you see that quality is already
better than ever, and what we are talking about are subtle
differences. Differences in Sampling Rates that you will
hardly ever know, as the recording is the recording. Those
choices were made by the record producer. It is all about
the recording. Not just about the Sampling Rate".
I try to add these two statements together, and they
appear to null each other out. Can I hear subtle differences that would be an indication that the Artist wants their Music to sound bad? Can I not hear these subtle
differences, therefore the Artist doesn't care what the
Music Sounds like. You are arguing out of both sides of
your mouth. You can't have it both ways.
Keep it simple. Would the Artist prefer listening to
DXD or a 24/192 Download of his own Music? I guess he
wouldn't have much choice if "Soon all New Music will only
be available as Music Downloads". Do we have one Format for
the Artist, and one Format for the Consumer? If this is the
case WE get the short end of the stick with 24/192 Computer
Downloads of the Artists Music. What if the Artist prefers
Analog, Vinyl, MLP, SACD, DVD-Audio (24/96, 24/192), Blue-
Ray Audio. What if the Artist judges these as better
sounding on Disk via DXD, than on a 24/192 Download. What
are you going to do, shoot the Artist to keep it quiet?
Tell the Artist that he can only listen to a 24/192
Computer File of his own Music when DXD offers 3-4 times
more resolution? MLP even offers 24/192 in four to six
channels. I don't see alot of four to six channels of 24/192 Releases available on HD-Tracks! Two Channel 24/192
High Rez. Downloading is a step down- Recording Quality
higher than ever? Do you even know what it is that you are trying to sell us? If you don't even know, feel free to fume all you want to because some of us won't buy it!
There is the Profit! Paying the same for an MLP Multi-
Channel 24/96, 24/192 Disk than a 2-Channel 24/192 Download. I guess if we were dummed down we would buy that for a dollar. Some of us can actually add. Here is a
News Flash, you can also RECORD at a higher sampling rate.
Based on your opinion this makes no difference in the
Recording? No difference in New Music, nor New Recordings?
It is all about the Recording. Not just about the sampling rate? -REALLY??? How you record directly affects the
recording- you think? I thought that I was a Fossil!

Chadeffect- "It is not down to you! Can I decide if I'd
like the latest Porn Film to be in real 3D? No, I cannot.
Can I decide if the latest Star Wars movie is released in
Omnimax, or Imax? No, I cannot. Does it matter? probably
not".
Alright, lets go with that. Based on this- who decides
"It is the Music that matters"? You would leave it to
Recording Studio/ Record Company/ Producers/ and Artists, to the exclusion of the Consumer himself. One little
problem: as a Consumer you are in competition with atleast
the Record Company/ Producers over Sound Quality. It is the
nature of any Market (Especially the Audio Market) that
the Consumer must struggle, and fight with the Manufacturer
over Quality. I.E.- "Let the buyer beware"! Are you in
business (As a Consumer) for yourself to get as much Sound
Quality Bang-for-the-Buck? I am! Are you instead in
business (As a Consumer) for the Manufacturer to benefit
from you getting less Bang-for-the Buck? Multiple Formats-
mutiple sources of High Sound Quality. Single Format- single source of High Sound Quality. Who benefits, who
loses, and who benefits at someone elses expense? I don't
know about you, but I am coming up short on multiple sources of High Sound Quality with a single Format solution. Does it matter? I am in business for myself as a
Consumer. My business is higher selection of higher Audio
Sound Quality. The more sources of this (Formats), the
more my business profits. Fewer sources, and someone else
profits off of my business. You fill in the blank of who
you believe that might be. We still have options unless you
decide to give those options up! When you give those options up, you don't get them back if you discover that
"Things don't work out as you planned". You giving up
options (Multiple Formats) also means that I have to give up these same options. There is no vacuum here in the Audio
Market. Everything we do directly affects someone else in
the Market. Does it matter? PROBABLY SO!!! Tell me how many
times you have already heard me say this? You offer nothing
to contradict this. Your arguement is simply one of
convenience for yourself. My arguement is one to benefit the Consumer in the Audio Market- of which I happen to be one of them. You can't say "It is the Music that matters",
and "Does it matter? Probably not" in the same breath. THAT
is HYPOCRACY 101! What Barometer do you use to measure Sound Quality with, the increased Profit Margin of the stock for your favorite Computer Audio Manufacturer? I guess those ears no longer serve any purpose, just donate
them to science. Just don't try to put that on the rest of
us. Your single Format solution, as a benefit to the
Consumer, just "DOES NOT COMPUTE"! Recheck your Math, or
do it through personal attacks on me. We need no stinking
Math, right?

Simple question Folks. If you don't need 24/192 Multi-
Channel on MLP Disk, why in the world would you pay the
same for a 2 Channel 24/192 Download? Why Digitally
Record at 24/192 if the Sampling Rate makes no difference?
Digitally Record at 16/44.1 for Downloaded Music Files.
Keep everything at 16/44.1 since it makes no difference.
Who are you kidding, you guys ARE buying the High Rez.
Download Stuff expecting what- 16/44.1 performance? I
don't think so! If this is the case, I suggest putting
your dog in charge. He would probably make more sense.
It is really simple. Garbage in- Garbage out also applies
to Sampling Rate, as it applies to everything else in
the Audio Chain. You guys are arguing otherwise- we are
back to Reversing Entropy/ Flat Earth debate ad Nauseum.
I am ending this lunacy now! It is starting to make me
Nauscious. Argue with yourself in a mirror- I am out of here! Arguing with someone who can't add, I'm better off arguing with a drunk! Recreating your own Math because
2 + 2 = 4 is too inconvenient for you? Well, it has just got to go! Right? So do I. If you can't figure out why it
doesn't add up- don't come to me. After all, you know
better!

Chadeffect- Of course most Studio Kit is 24/192 compatible
and under only. My point is that YOU want to keep it that
way for a damn long time with "Soon all New Music will only
be available as Music Downloads". We are limited to 24/192
glass ceiling with Downloading. You don't want to explore
any other possibilities with DXD, Blue-Ray Audio, MLP, SACD, DVD-Audio, XRCD24, K2 HD CD, and Vinyl. The real crime is that you want to rob us of the opportunity of listening for ourselves to any possible improvement with these other Formats- DXD or not! A 24/192 Download is the
bottleneck that you want to force everyone into- a possible
32 Bit Mastered Disk, or Remaster be damned! You want to deny us the ability to compare any possible future Format
by imposing a 24/192 Single Downloading Format Filter. I
prefer being able to compare the Sound Quality of competing
Formats on my own. Am I supposed to dumb down to your level, and just take your word for it that "24/192 Music
File Downloads is as good as it gets- live with it"? There
is no longer any room for improvement, and you are going to make damn sure of that by saddling everyone with 24/192
Downloading. Sorry, too convenient- especially when both you, and I know that there is something out there that
sounds better. Maybe it is still in development; but, it
STILL Sounds better than 24/192 Downloads. You know it!
You just don't want anyone else to be able to listen for
themselves. We are supposed to surrender our ears to your dictum of "Soon all New Music will only be available as
Music Downloads. Only thing available for everyone to be forced to listen to. Any Future Formats be damned; because, you will not be allowed to listen to them for yourself". Talk about being treated as a head on a stick. This will not pass. People will eventually realize that they are being treated as Cattle- THAT IS INEVITABLE! Therefore (once again) a single Format solution does absolutely nothing to benefit the Consumer- in Sound Quality/ In Thrift/ In Convenience/ in Cost/ or in any other way. Are you even a Consumer? I have my doubts. You are certainly not Ralph Nader. Who are you? What are you?
Why are you trying to do this to us? What did we ever do to you besides leave you alone to listen to whatever Format
you wanted. Don't treat us any different- like Cattle!
Will you ever learn that you can't force anything you want
down everyones throat. It is an exercise in futility, much
like this Thread. You are not a Puppet Master, and we are not your Puppets. You are definitely NOT up to playing God!
Stick to your day job.

Fair enough! I do get grumpy when I sense someone desiring to minimize my options in Audio Formats. Still trying to
figure out how one can Download a Blue-Ray Audio release that is not available yet as 24/192 High Rez. Download.
There within resides the dilema of limited selection in
High Rez. material- in a single Download Format Universe.
Even if the same release was available in both Formats,
would one always be of better sound quality in one Format
as opposed to the other? Would it be a mixed result with
different releases in each Format? I will buy one release
in Blue-Ray, because I discover it sounds better than it's
24/192 Downloaded counterpart. I will buy another release in 24/192 Downloaded File, because I discover it sounds better than it's Blue-Ray Audio counterpart. Ditto the same
comparisons via SACD, MLP, DVD-Audio, XRCD, XRCD24, K2 HD
CD.
Of course it is the Music that matters; but, it is
usually the Mastering (Or Remastering) process that sometimes gets screwed up. This cuts across all Formats,
including High Rez. Downloads. You will end up with some
CD versions of a release that will sound better than their
High Rez. counterpart- simply because someone screwed up the Remastering process. These anomalies can apply to all
Formats. It might not happen often; but, it happens often
enough that someone will lose any High Rez. Potential of
their favorite release- their favorite Music. High Rez.
can sound better (In all Formats including Downloading);
but, no guarantee.
My issue is the loss to the consumer to descriminate
what sounds good to him in a single Format Market. You are
going to end up with some 24/192 Download Releases sounding wonderful, others not so much. Why is it so
rediculous to have a back-up Format of your favorite Music
when the Downloaded version doesn't come out as expected?
Reasonable people can reasonably disagree. When it
comes to "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads", where is the room for reasonable
disagreement as to how this may negatively affect the
sound quality of SOME Music Releases? What alternatives will exist for THOSE instances? Are we being forced to buy
"The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" of High Rez. Downloads,
because that is the only High Rez. Format that is left?
What if it becomes the only source of the favorite Releases of our particular Music? How does limited selection in High Rez. Downloads affect our access to our
favorite releases. Can you always say that the 16/44.1
Downloaded version will always sound better than the Blue-
Ray Audio Version? The Multi-Channel MLP Version? The SACD
Version? The XRCD, XRCD24, K2 HD CD, versions? If 16/44.1
Download Version of my favorite Music Release is the only
one available, you will be cutting me out of any High Res.
access to these Music Releases on Disk. This will happen in the elimination of other High Res. Formats. Music may Matter most; but, I have heard some of these other High Rez. Formats on Disk. The Sound Quality on these Disks- DOES MATTER to me! Yes, sometimes they do sound better than the 16/44.1 Downloaded version when High Rez. Download selection remains very limited. This is not always true. Please allow me the ability to fill in the blanks. Allow me the ability to discriminately listen, and select best sounding across many Formats. This is no different than when you discriminately listen, and select when you Download. My hope is that a larger selection would give me more access to the best sounding versions of my favorite Music. I haven't found many in High Rez. Downloads yet. Let me listen to my favorite Music till they do become available. If that makes no sense, I don't know what to tell you.
As far as I am concerned: I am only a 50 year old Man.
I have been Retired from the U.S. Navy for about 10 years.
Had 20 years of Naval Service, served as a "Pettyofficer".
Pick a number to get your free pop shot!

Chadeffect. Do you deny me the option of buying them all
to see which one I prefer? Do you severely limit my choices
to a single Format Source? You are going in the exact extreme opposite direction limiting me to a single choice.
Let me ask you this: Do you buy the 24/192, 24/96,
16/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2...etc- of the same release off
of HDTracks? Do you buy them all to see which one you prefer? The difference here is that I would not presume to
limit you to be able to select only one of these. Neither
would I presume to limit anyone else to the same single
selection. Limiting anyone to a single choice of the above
Downloads, isn't necessary. By the same token it isn't
necessary to limit anyone to the single choice of Downloading Format. What you fail to explain to me is the
Market necessity of eliminating all other Formats other than Downloading. Not if it's desirable, not if it
is inevitable; but, why is it necessary? It would be
about as necessary as limiting you to a single Sampling Rate for each HDTrack Downloaded Music File. After all,
"The Sampling Rate makes no difference"- right? It is the
presumption that it makes no difference to you. It is also
the presumption that it would make no difference to anyone else. I would not presume to tell you what to buy- Now give
me some of that back! You won't budge no matter what!
Henceforth the Hypocracy of your double Standard.

Chadeffect- here is the reason for the Disk. Say you have
a Surround Sound Mix of Dianna Krall-"The Look Of Love".
Say you have one copy processed in Advanced Resolution
Surround Sound 24/96 Multi-channel Meridian Loss-less
packing.
Say you have another copy available as a two Channel WAV Download Music File (16/44.1, 24/96, 24/192). Wait!
The 24/96, 24/192 Versions are not available yet due to
limited selection of High Resolution Downloads. You say
it doesn't matter, toss the MLP Disk production, Download the 16/44.1, and wait until 24/96-24/192 versions become
available as Downloads. This maybe a hypothetical proposition, but it cuts across many High Resolution Disks
vs "not available for prime time yet" High Res. Download
of the same Release. How is a Two Channel 16/44.1 WAV
Download File a step up in sound quality from a High Res.
Multi-Channel MLP Disk? This is your "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". I say "Hold
on just a cotton picking minute here". Not until you have
adequate High Res. Download Release content to match the
quality of existing MLP, SACD, DVD-Audio, XRCD, XRCD24,
K2 HD CD, Blue-Ray Audio Disks. 16/44.1 WAV Music Downloads only thing available to replace specific Releases on these Disk Formats? Atleast until we have to
wait for 24/96-24/192 Download Releases of our favorite Music to become available in High Res. again- for the
second time around? How long are we supposed to wait for our Music- 2 years, 10 years, 20 years? You can't say the
Recording Quality is separate from the Sampling
Rate, when the Sampling Rate of all New Music Digitally
Recorded has a direct corellation with sound quality.
You want us to go back to the "16/44.1" Digitally Recorded
Music of the 1980's, and how it was Digitally Recorded? This is your "Sampling Rate makes no difference", as you try to sell Higher Sampling Rate High Res. Downloads on the
Internet? Kind of absurd, don't you think? I am going to need a whole Barrel of Rum to swallow this "Whale of a Fish
Story! If you are Digitally Recording at a higher Sampling
Rate- this captures more of the acoustical event. Higher
Sampling Rate IS the Recording Quality, they are not separate entities. Again, no guarantees of High Sound
Quality; but, a little harder to do without.
I don't preach to you to not buy the 24/96-24/192
Music File Downloads off of HDTracks. I don't try to limit
selection with 16/44.1 Download Market with High Res. Selection waiting in the wings. Don't try to preach the elimination of my High Resolution, and I will listen to it. I will also listen to yours, but not stepping down to 16/44.1. Been there, done that for thirty years- don't tell me it doesn't make any difference! Naaahhh- what else have you got?

Strange response-Hfisher3380. I complain of losing ability
to purchase High Res. on Disk (MLP, SACD, Blue-Ray Audio,
DVD-Audio, XRCD, XRCD24, K2 HDCD, possible DXD, 32 Bit
Remastered on CD) while the High Res. Download Versions of my favorite Releases aren't available yet. This is the
result of your suggestion that "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Any New Releases
on these High Res. Disks goes right out the window. This
leaves me with only 16/44.1 Downloaded Version of my
favorite Music. This is a step down from any High Res.
Disk.
The point is that I have found more than a few of my
favorite Artists on these High Res. Disks. Take another
look at that long list of High Res. Disk Formats above.
This includes many Disks that are just beginning to be
released in Remastered 32 Bit on CD by Elusive Disks.
High Res. Download Selection is getting better, I have
been checking it out. I don't see the same Artists, nor
do I see anything in 32 Bit. Nor do I see anything even referencing DXD.
My point is that I wish to combine the High Res.
Selection between High Res. Disks, AND High Res. Downloads.
This will give me a larger High Res. Music Selection to choose from. You wish to exclusively replace High Res. Disks with High Res. Downloads i.e. "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Your exclusionary Theory severely limits the High Res. Music
Selection available to me. It will do the same for all other Consumers as well. A Higher Res. Selection (Disks+
Downloads) helps me in choosing those that sound better.
A single source severely limits that ability.
That will remain a problem-Chadeffect. My severely limited ability to gain access to many sources of High
Res. when exclusively limited to Download Format only.
I anticipate that most releases on High Res. Disks (MLP,
SACD, DVD-Audio, Blue-Ray Audio, XRCD, XRCD24, K2 HDCD,
possible DXD, 32 Bit Remastered on CD) will never see the
light of day as 24/96-24/192 Downloads. I don't own
"Everything" on all of these High Res. Disk Formats. Everything will disappear according to your single Format
Theory. So will my Music Selection. That remains a serious problem for me!
I have the same problem of having to repeat myself
so many times (Have you seen how long this Threads is).
I can't draw you a picture across a Thread. You guys are
smarter than this, I know that you can add. I certainly know that you can subtract. Your proposal is to subtract High Res. Disks from the High Res. mix. You subtract anything you have less left over, YES-NO? Less left over
means less High Res. left over for me to select from. It
is not complicated, it is not rocket science. You just need to be willing to look beyond the boundaries of your
Computer Screen. YOU CAN DO THIS! I am not arguing for
arguments sake. I happen to be interested in protecting
the Music Selections/Releases that I like to listen to.
Most others feel the same way. When replacing Formats most
take 5-10 years, for the very reason as to protect everyones Music Selection. Nobody gets left out in the cold. I don't see any concern, nor attempt to do the same
with Download Format replacement. Why do I sense panick
here in the rush to implement Downloading Format? What is it that you are not telling us? Again -should I be just as
nervous over Downloading as you? Other Formats shouldn't even be a concern- so why are they such a concern? I can
be just as concerned about exclusionary Downloading Format.
If you are nervous about it, you are certainly making me
nervous about it as well- WHY???

Hfisher3380- why do you keep on proving my point? You want
to COMPARE limited Selection between High Res. Disks, and High Res. Downloads. I want to COMBINE limited Selection of both for the interest of the Consumer in High Res.! You
COMPARE as part of an "Either-or" proposition. Then you
argue that "...not once have I, nor anyone else said that we wish to exclusively replace all High Res. Disks with High Res. Downloads". Then you argue "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Did I miss the
High Res. Optical Disks in that last Statement? What is your expectation for High Res. Disks with a statement like
that?
Again, look beyond the boundaries of your Computer
Screen. You mention "ONE" High Res. Disk Format- MLP! As if
that addresses "ALL" of them. I haven't even had the opportunity yet to listen to a 32 Bit Remastered on CD!
There is atleast half a dozen of these releases with more in the wings. You would deny me that opportunity to listen
to future New Releases in 32 Bit, by saddling me with
"Exclusive Download limited selection 24/96, 24/192".
Possible releases in DXD? FORGET ABOUT IT in a limited
24/96,24/192 Download Format Universe! There are future
possibilities on High Res. Disks that Computer Software can't even keep up with. I want to use Downloading as a
comparison to other possible future High Res. Formats. I
can live with multiple copies of the same release from
different High Res. Formats. EVOLUTION in Sound Quality
demands variety. You want to paint us into the corner of
extinction by limiting variety in Formats. You want us to
go the way of the Dinosaurs? NOT FOLLOWING YOU!
I don't see the 32 Bit Downloads. High Res. Disks- 1,
High Res. Downloads- 0! Any High Res. Downloads Remastered
in DXD? Computer Audio Downloads had better pick up the pace if it is a "COMPARISON" you want! I would be happy with both Disks and Downloads. You- NOT SO MUCH! Is this a
matter of profitable convenience? At whose expense? It is
not going to be born in a vacuum! Who pays then? Variety=
Strength. Your limited Format variety= What? Weakness?
24/96,24/192 Audio Extractor compared to 32 Bit Disks- is
that the best that you can do? Keep working on it (I sense
a pattern here).

Chadeffect- not the same releases available on 24/96
24/192 Downloads, as available on High Res. Disks- no
matter what the Format. The issue is the severe lack of
S-E-L-E-C-T-I-O-N in either High Res. Downloads, AND High
Res. Disks. Your solution would be to cut this selection in half by getting rid of all of the High Res. Disks. This
helps me HOW in selecting High Res.? Limited selection helps me HOW in selecting those that sound the best, Disk
or Download? "The Download is the same File used to make the Disk". How do you know this? Is it the same File used
as a two channel 24/192 Download that is the same as the
Blue-ray Audio Release, same as the Advanced Resolution
MULTI-CHANNEL 24/96 Surround Sound MLP Processed Disk?
Two Channel 24/192 Download, Multi-Channel 24/96 MLP Disk,
Blue-Ray Audio Disk, XRCD Disk, XRCD 24 Disk, K2 HD CD Disk, 32 Bit Remastered onto CD- ALL COME FROM A DIFFERENT
REMASTERING PROCESS!!! They are all going to sound different. Some will sound better than the Download Release, and visa-versa.
Hfisher3380- 32 Bit Remastered on CD DOES EXIST! I have
listened to Remastered High Res. on CD, and it DOES give
High Res. Downloads a run for their money- in some
instances. Allow me to pick what I want to listen to on
High Res. Downloads, AND on High Res. Disks. Same Releases on both DO NOT Sound the same! Neither can claim superiority with a mixed bag of results for BOTH!
Timlub- take this to the Manufacturer for what? To have my
ears corrected. To have them adjust my hearing for
Download Format only- P-O-I-N-T-L-E-S-S!
All of you want to can half of the High Res. Market by
getting rid of the High Res. Disks- in order to MAKE ROOM
for High Res. Downloads! This does "WHAT" to my selection of High Res. anything? If you canned half of the High Res.
Market Selection you run the risk of dragging the rest of it down as well. Limited Selection, Limited Market, the end of anything High Res. period! Selection won't be there to support it, and that selection won't happen in a vacuum
of High Res. Download Selection. You don't have 24/192
Download Selection available to make up the difference, to immediately step in to fill the void. You have selection
available FIRST before you pull the Disks- otherwise alot of people are going to lose their Music. I know that no-
one here really cares about that! I mean R-E-A-L-L-Y cares
about Music. I am waisting my time here. Music Selection be
damned for everyone. You win! I am thru here. You guys have
always put the Computer above the Music, not in service of it. Sad day for Music indeed! Can we now let this Thread rest in peace??? Do not respond to this- and we will be
thru with it! Yes- post 235, and NOTHING learned by anyone!

Chadeffect- 32 Bit Remastered to CD is available. 32 Bit
as a High Res. Download- IS NOT! High Res. Downloads, and
High Res. Disks (Of the same release) do NOT sound the
same! Some of the Disks sound better, on other releases
some of the Downloads sound better. Shoot, even some of
the 24/96 Downloads sound different than same release in
24/192 Download. Even some of the 16/44.1 Downloads sound
better than both! Same Computer File- No! Try different
process of Remastering for each. Ditto for comparison
between Disk, and Download of same release. How was it
Remastered for the Disk? How was it Remastered for the
Download? Do you think that a "MULTI-CHANNEL" 24/96 MLP
Disk, and a "TWO CHANNEL" 24/96 Download of the same
release, use the EXACT SAME REMASTERING PROCESS?
TWO CHANNELS + 0 = MORE THAN TWO CHANNELS? They both
come from the same Master? From the same Computer File?
Are there any Multi-Channel 24/96 Downloads available? Are
there any 32 Bit Downloads available (Compressed to 16/44.1
or not)? Any K2 HDCD Downloads available? Any XRCD24
Downloads available? Any Blue-Ray Audio Downloads available? WHY NOT??? All of these Formats involve a
different process of Remastering. Some of them involve the
same Sampling Rate, some don't, some don't even involve
the same number of channels. I understand that many HDTrack
Downloads are compressed FLAC Files, yet all of you profess
an ignorance of data compression for Disk! This is simply a laughable, clumsy, and pathetic attempt at distortion.
Everything off of the Disk is still 16/44.1, no matter if
it is compressed or not- THIS IS YOUR ARGUEMENT?
P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C!!!
I enjoy listening to High Res. Disks (When they sound
better than High Res. Downloads). I enjoy listening to High
Res. Downloads (When they sound better than High Res. Disks). Selection in both doesn't add up to a hill of beans. You want to rob me of even this with "Soon all New
Music will only be available as Downloads". Top that off
with "Re-read the posts and find me one...O-N-E example of
Chad, Timlub, myself or anyone stating that they would like to annihiliate ANY Format". Go back to that former
statement, and throw Vinyl in there with "ALL" opposing
Formats to be eliminated. This is not Code, or Speaking in
Tongues- it is plain English. Something that you twist into
a "Double Talk", or "Double Speak" KNOT!
I am simply trying to protect my Music. You simply want to steal my Music by limiting my options, limit my
selection, and limit me as to how I can even be allowed to
listen to my Music. You also want to limit my access to
High Res. Audio without adequate Selection to replace it.
What's next? Do you want to steal my first born as well?
I show concern about access to my favorite Music, and get
ridiculed by "So-called" Audiophiles! Audiophiles who claim
that they value "Sound Quality" over Computer convenience.
They value it so much that they want to provide it as much as possible over many Formats, so that any "Common Man" can
enjoy it. If this doesn't describe you, I am not the problem! Try looking in the mirror. You might not like what
you see. Replacing all Formats with a single one (Downloading) simply isn't necessary in the Audio Market. No-one here has explained the necessity of doing so, no-one
is even trying to explain. This pretty much means that it is an un-necessary sacrifice. I don't believe in sacrifice,
human or otherwise. I find it very crude, and "Inhuman".
NOT an honor as some of you believe. I believe different
that you, LEAVE IT BE! I don't think that you have a choice. Sorry! I am not going Aztec today, or ever. You
guys ARE gluttons for punishment, and you don't even realize just how far. It has nothing to do with me, or
opposing Formats I use. It all has to do with "YOUR" big
concern over opposing Formats. I don't see the "OPPOSITION"
angle at all. Obviously-YOU DO! Your task to explain it.
You haven't done so yet! I challenge you to do so before
you are given the Plug to Pull on the Disks. Arrogance has
to be earned. Must you demand everything for free? No more
freebees. In this Economy, are you kidding?

Chadeffect- so I can Download the same "Multi-track", apply
the same software to get the same result? How do you know
which Releases "DO", "DO NOT" use a Surround Microphone?
So we will be stuck with "Two-Channel" High Res. Downloads,
limited to 24/192 glass ceiling? I suppose we wont be able
to use Surround Sound Microphones there either? Neither will we be able to use 32 Bit, or DXD. If you are not
Downloading the Multi-Track, then you are Downloading a
Two-Channel Remastered Copy. You claim that High Res. is
Remastered the same either on Disk, or Download. I ask:
So where are the Multi-Channel 24/96,24/192 Downloads to
replace the MLP Disks? So where are the Multi-Channel DSD
SACD Downloads to replace the SACD Disks? So where are the
Remastered Blue-Ray Audio Downloads to replace the Blue-ray
Audio Disks? Are we supposed to make these ourselves with
nothing more than a 24/192 Two-Channel High Res. Download
"FLAC" Music File? We have to "Remaster" our own Music on
our Computer, and pay for the priviledge? I have my collection of "Master Tapes" of all Music from all ages. I
will dig them out of the attic, and get right on that!
Hfisher3380- the fact that you still argue this point
belies your intent. You argue to death the benefit of going
all Downloading Format sans other Formats. Then go "Ponchous Pilate" washing your hands of all respondsibility. You act like you never seen "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads" on this
Thread, or any other. You act like you never have heard these words. Now First time you have "EVER" heard them? Then you argue, and defend them ad nauseum. Your numerous defenses of the intent behind these words, is a constantly
rotating door of endless examples! You want an example, look in the mirror. It will make you dizzy, it makes me
dizzy just looking at it. I might loose my hands trying to
grab just O-N-E example- PASS!
I am not willing to play at your level of pretend
ignorance. You wear your intent tattooed on your forehead.
I am supposed to play ignorant in treating you like the
"Emperor and his new clothes". I am not playing games!
I am fighting for my Music, you want to severely restrict my access to my Music. Magically I lose selection everyday
with optical disk. You say "It isn't us, give us an example". I open your holy Bible of promoting Computer
Audio Downloading. Your first Commandment says, "Soon all
New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Your
Bible also describes this as "Inevitable", and "Unavoidable". Either you guys are promoting this belief, or it is being ordained by God. Don't see the God
connection, "DO" see alot of guys "PLAYING GOD". Must be a
special place for those whose ego is based on stealing
someone else's Music. Paranoid, sure- NOW GIVE ME THE CHOICE OF MY DAMN MUSIC BACK!!! Enough of trying to
manipulate everyone by Rook, or by Crook. You are not very good at it....you know the rest! "PARANOID" because I
demand a "CHOICE", I can live with that! I cannot live with "COMPUTER BUREAUCRATS" running bureaucratic interference, rules, regulations, and technobabble between
me and my Music. Yours is a "JIHAD", or "HOLY CRUSADE"
against Optical Disks. You don't understand why some of us get upset with being swepted up in some of your "REFORMS"?
If you can't understand- I don't know what to tell you!
Are you going to demand that we all get "BAPTISED" in the
Holy Order of "Computer Audio"? Foresake all other beliefs-
(Formats)? I always hated "NECROMONGERS"! I think, therefore I am, and I can choose. I choose not to be caged
like an animal with the chain of a single Format hanging
around my neck. "I AM A FREE MAN"! I can see beyond the
boundaries of my Computer Screen, just like I can see beyond the end of my nose. How about you? You haven't got the Selection- WORK ON IT! GETTING TIRED OF SAYING THAT!

Last couple of my Responses have been rejected for being too
"inflammatory". I was hoping to end this Thread once, and for all. I will only say that for most Music you can still pretty much get it via CD, or Music Downloads. You guys are the ones who claim that "it takes a little bit more digging" to find it. I came here for an argument to reverse that trend. No reason to jump through smaller, and smaller hoops to find your Music. Your answer was to build "Bomb Shelters" of Musical Archive in preparation. How is this NOT inconsistent with what you claim now? As diplomatic as I can possibly respond "Please kindly get your stories straight". My missing Music is inconsequential, I got it!
I do listen, but you have to start listening to how you sound from this end. Most of your answers agree that Music Selection is a little harder to come by due to Computer Audio. It is not an "Answer" agreeing with me, that I want. I already have an acknowledgement of the problem, but see no solution (or desire) to correct it. I don't see an alternative Audio Music Format without the Music Selection.
If you do, THAT leaves a vacuum. You can't fill that vacuum by tossing mud at me. If that is your answer, why would anyone listen? Finding Downloads is NOT the problem, finding
my Music available as a Download IS the problem. It is just not a problem to you. Maybe YOU should do a little bit more listening? "Soon All New Music Will Only Be Available As Music Downloads" means cutting my Music Selection off at the knees. If you cut me don't I bleed? Get the Download Selection up, then we will consider it. What is this crap of desperately trying to avoid it at all costs? Are you afraid of Computer Audio going under? Are you terrified of having too much Download Music Selection available? How is that....B-A-D??? Please explain, and don't try to distract from an Explanation by claiming that "I Don't Listen". This is wearing thin as a tool to avoid really answering the question. I see our Music Selection going out on a limb. I see us going out on a limb over Computer Audio with no research support from Computer Manufacturers over Sound Quality. Customer Support being unaccountably supplied by other Customers....is there anything this Audio Format does right AS an Audio Format in context of what other Audio Formats have provided? Apparently WE do all of the production work, and we pay through the nose for the priviledge of the added tasking. Is it asking too much for Computer Audio Downloads to supply us the Music Selection that we are accustomed to? Cut us some slack somewhere! Show
some Mercy, instead of being "Mr. Freeze" with our Music Archives. Freezing us out? THAT is your Answer? Sorry if I have a tendency to say "Right Back At You"! That is being responsive, NOT being inflammatory (A Little Cold for That
don't you think?). You tell me when we will "Thaw" out the Music Selection Availability in Computer Audio Downloads. I am not buying "Ice Cubes" to use for Audio in the meantime.
They don't fit in my ears very well, and they are just a little uncomfortable. I diplomatically must return them to you, with all due respect. Give me Music instead, if you please!

O-kay Hfisher3380, you got the last word. I thought that is
what Trolls do. Troll see, Troll do?
No need to apply the scientific method to the Nth
degree. Simple subtraction, and common sense works just fine. You have less of anything to buy you have less to select from. You want to shrink the High Res. Audio Market
by getting rid of the High Res. Disks. 4-2=2 The end
result of "2" is less than "4". My High Res. is currently at "4". You want to reduce it down to "2". I scream foul
because I am now down by "2" on my High Res. Selection.
You expect me to eat this for the sake of....what? Yet,
you think that you are the one who should be upset. I am
the one who is getting short changed on my Music. I am the
one who is taking the loss. You have nothing to lose- why
are you so unhappy? You discount Common Sense as "Proof"?
Computer Audio will not continue to succeed in the Audio
Market without some applied "Common Sense". Too bad, I
kind of liked the alternative. You want to eliminate ALL
alternatives. You want to put all Audiophiles on life
support having to solely rely on only one Audio Format for
High Res.! This makes "NO SENSE".

Chadeffect- I thought this was an AUDIO Format, not LESSONS ON THE WRITTEN ENGLISH Format. If I want English Lessons I will be talking to an English Professor, not YOU Professor. You would make a lousy English Teacher, stick to your day job- we will all be safer.
Mapman- Never have I been so misunderstood. I concider a Laser a step up from magnetic particles of 1's, and 0's. Not to mention how fragile, and vulnerable those magnetic particles are to magnetic flux. A Cassette Tape in Disk Format with magnetic 1's, and 0's- sounds really nostalgic to me. Do you need a map to step up to Lasers? Cassette tapes suck because they are so fragile, and highly vulnerable. DITTO IN SPADES for Hard Drives (And Back-ups)
for the exact same reasons. Same Laws of Physics still applies for both. Cassettes are disposable, Ditto for Magnetic Music Files!
Edorr- perfect attitude that encompasses the direction that Computer Audio is going. As Audiophiles, let's embrace MP3 at a portion of the resolution of CD. If Manufacturer's want us to buy a New Format at a portion of the resolution of MP3, lets embrace that too! Lets endlessly repeat this exercise, TO WHAT END? Really, is there no bottom here? Spend your monthly paycheck for a few beans of sound quality? Beans that are "Soon To Be Available", so you are left eating dirt! Someone will get rich on this FOR SURE! It ain't going to be you getting rich on Sound Quality, or Selection.
You may think that you are better off today in terms of Music Selection, and Sound Quality. It is an illusion.
Music Files are extremely vulnerable- that is certain. Do you have a replacement should anything happen to thousands of Music Files stored on your Hard Drive (Back-up just as vulnerable). In a Magnetic Storm of a Solar Flare, I suggest your ONLY viable back-up will be a CD. Who would have thunk it? Powerlines can be replaced, even CD Players can be replaced. Who pays for your unretrievable magnetically based Music Files? You do, or you simply do without them. They are, after all, designed to be disposable. Why should it be such a big shock at how vulnerable they are? STILL, there is no money back guarantee should you lose them- WHY? What do they know that you don't? They know HOW TO MAKE MONEY! Law of Conservation, make money from where? From YOU, of course.
At what expense? At the expense of Sound Quality. You are paying a fortune for a house of straw (Computer Audio Format). What can I say, Houses of Straw are certainly "CONVENIENT". They just weren't made to last. That is what's so "INCONVENIENT" about them. What makes them so "PROFITABLE", is the appearance of "CONVENIENCE".
An Audio Format based on fragile magnetic 1's, and 0's is an illusion of Sound Quality, Selection, and Convenience. It is a house of straw not made to last. Only thing nostalgic is Greed, and Profit. CD's cost many times more to produce than downloaded Music Files, and the price is the same or higher? Me thinks someone is being robbed blind here! You certainly have alot to talk about, so I will leave you alone now. Pet Rocks, Downloaded Music Files- what's the next fad to make someone a millionare? Should I be forced to pay for the air that I breath-NUTS!
I have to draw the line...SOMEWHERE! Where do you draw the line on Sound Quality, or the quality of anything? Are the majority of the American Public not interested in the quality of ANYTHING? Sounds like a VERY lucrative, and profit making Market. Yet, the Economy still sucks. Have you figured it out yet??? Maybe someday you will if it is NOT too late, and you still have a job! If you don't, then the answer should be very obvious. Your former Employer thought that the buying American Public wasn't interested in purchasing the high quality that you provided. Someday,
I pray, we will learn. Have YOU learned anything yet?

Mapman- I am not frustrated with the complexities of Computer Audio. Certainly confused with the Salesman line of "CONVENIENCE" based on that complexity. WOW! What a wake-up call THAT was! I say this because I still do use Computer Audio, and still want to continue using it- as I have stated before. Just don't want to be isolated in the marketplace of using it as my last, and only resort. This is what a single Audio Format would imply.
Chadeffect- I have no problem finding CD Music Selection Online. Always find it, although it may take many hours to look for a particular selection. The problem is that I always find the magic words next to it "No Longer Available", or "No Longer In Print". Not alot anyone can do about that. It is a case of an availability problem, and a case of knowing where to look- this includes Downloadable Music Files. These problems will continue to get worse as "Music Selection" remains splintered across a dozen sources. There is no longer a single place to look for your particular Music. It has become like playing the Lottery, chances are you will miss it. To really make this problem worse, many times over, would be to pull the Music Selection left available on Disk while same selection does not yet exist on Download (Soon To Be?). THAT IS WHAT'S SO WRECKLESS TO MUSIC SELECTION (Disk and Music File). Downloads not keeping up, and certainly unable to fill the vacuum of CD selection should it be completely yanked- as some have demanded. We are ten thousand CDs "Out Of Print" already on the way there. Because of that I have missing Music (CD and Download). Yank what is left of CD, Downloads will not be able to pick up the slack for quite sometime. I am pretty old, this is not my first Rodeo, I have certainly switched Audio Formats before. This is the first time it has ever been switched where selection for the New Format will remain "Soon To Be" for many years to come. Rediculous to suggest that all of the Music on my shelf should be the "ONLY" Music that I am likely to ever listen to. So much for exploring other Music that I have yet to listen to. No Longer In Print, and not available as Download (Perhaps for many years to come). Asking that somebody go a little easier on the "Reaping" of Music Selection from "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". I want New Music, Old Music, ALL MUSIC, available for everyone. Never going to get there the way we are going. That tells me that there is really something wrong with the way we are doing it. It has never been this way before- struggling, and not finding our Music. Selection either existed in Old Format, or in New Format; but, NOT absent from either Format to such a degree simultaneously. What is so different this time? I don't think that it is being done correctly, and it is being done incorrectly too fast! Show some mercy! Have a little empathy for others losing their Music due to "The best layed plans of Mice and Men". Does anyone even care about Music being available for everyone, or is it just "Scr_w you, I got mine"? Pretending to being blind to the problem doesn't help. In fact it might even be permanently damaging to Computer Audio for quite sometime. We will certainly be permanently losing a large portion of our Music this way. THERE IS ANOTHER WAY!!! Computer Audio (Music) should be servicing us- this is how it is done.
Computer Audio Downloading is NOT providing New Music, Old Music, ALL MUSIC to everyone- and it won't in the near future (Certainly by itself). There is no use for any Audio Format that defeats its own purpose. People will tire of what is not available as Download, and BEEN GONE with CD. End Download Format, CD long gone, and we end up with NO FORMAT! Everyone happy? I guess that I will be the only one NOT! These concerns have "NOT" been addressed. Claiming so, doesn't make it so. More like "Sweeping it under a rug". Sorry to offend in yanking the rug back. Just a consequence of redoing the floor (Changing Formats). What were you expecting? This switch-over is a cluster-____, and a mess- compared to all other switch-overs. Need to clean-up the mess of missing Music Selection before using Download Format as only/ last resort. Accelerating forward now is not my idea of bravery, more like wreckless suicide. Clean-up the mess.
"It is the only way to make sure". CDs will certainly have to be around a long while before THIS mess is cleaned up.
As Mature Adults, we clean-up after ourselves- don't we? Are we just getting lazy, impatient, or both? Not exactly mature. Computer Audio Downloads as last/ only resort for Music. Sounds scary, doesn't it. Perhaps for good reason.
Mother Nature gave you those warning signs for a purpose, not to ignore danger! That is, unless you want to be a Deer
in headlights/ roadkill. Stop turning our Music Selection into roadkill. Computer Audio will eventually get there, but not until its Music Selection is robust/ worthy. That is the standard we have always held ALL New Formats. No New Format should ever get a free pass of someone going without their Music. Going hard on the Audio Format, so it goes easier on the Music Lover. Reversing that should be a crime! Experimenting as such is certainly a crime against Humanity, and Nature. This certainly puts consumers a few rungs down on the food chain. Why this self-destructive behavior with our Music, I will never know! Me, I'm going down those few rungs a clawing- and a fighting. Millions of years of Evolution put me on the Food Chain where I am at. I will be damned that someone is going to sell me out by a few rungs (For Convenience?)- fought too long, and hard to be where I am at. I'm clawing up- NOT DOWN!

Common Sense means that you put Music over Format. Common
Sense means if you want to increase High Res. Market
MANY Formats are the necessary vehicle for this. You want
to use one vehicle to deliver all of the goods sold in
America. You think that might slow down delivery, and
production a little bit? You think that this will
E-X-P-A-N-D the High Res. Market- single vehicle/Format
delivery? Atleast I speak volumes, you speak vacuum in
High Res. Selection. You are NOT in charge of choosing
my Music for me! Not the Format, not the type of Music,
nor the method of how I listen to it!
"Soon all New Music will only be available as Downloads".
This is "YOU" trying to establish BOUNDARIES, and
LIMITATIONS on how I will be ALLOWED to listen to my
MUSIC! Maybe in a Universe where you are "GOD", you are
"NOT" him! I am not impressed as to how you are running
the Universe so far. One "GOD" is enough. Stick to your
day job. If you are "GOD", where is the High Res. Download
Selection to replace the growing "VOID" in Optical Disk
Selection? For playing "GOD", you are not very good at it.
KEEP WORKING ON IT (High Res. Download Selection). I am
NOT impressed so far- GET BUSY!!! That is my "Volume Speak"
of the day. You must be the most "LAZIEST DEITY" I have
ever known. You want to play the part, washing your hands of all respondsibility just wont cut it. I AIN'T BUYING IT!
You want me to worship your Format, I expect SELECTION for
my prayers. You are not getting me on my knees for anything
less! Certainly not for I.O.U.s, or Empty Promises of
future High Res. Downloads. Got burned worshiping SACD/DVD-
Audio GOD. Prayed for greater Selection (Rain). Ended up
eating dirt. I don't think that your dirt is any different,
or any better. The gall of you demanding that I eat your
Formats dirt exclusively- THAT IS WHAT ANGERS ME THE MOST!
You argue incessantly because I wont swallow it. I will
spit it out in your face; because, THAT IS WHO I AM! Get
over yourself, or end up with allot of dirt on yourself.

Devilboy- Computer Audio is like going via Pluto to get to
Earth's Moon! Can you spell R-E-D-U-N-D-A-N-T to an Nth
degree? What is next? Requiring me to perform human sacrifices to the Computer Gods whenever I want to listen
to my Music? Ever smaller, and higher hoops (Heavier
Computer Tasking) to jump through to get to my Music? Maybe
you can tease me like a Dog, and make me jump higher for
my food (Music)? Sorry Captain Ahab. You can travel through
"Perditions Flames" to get to your Music, if you want! I
can travel through a Quantum Universe instantly with
"Plug-n-Play". I don't have to worry about chasing White
Whales, or "Impending Doom"! I guess every Captain Ahab
thinks his crew is a "Little Bit Strange", or "Way Out
There"! I certainly disagree with what you say Captain
(Devilboy), and I am certainly more than just a "Little
Scared" over your small obsession in harpooning all
opposing Formats (Including Optical Disks). Were you
attacked by a Silver Disk? Did one cut your leg off, or
something? Well, "THAT" would explain alot! You have...
my simpathy. No offense Captain; but, I will wait for the next boat. Still not getting on the same boat as you.
I don't care how much of a "Nice Guy" you really
are once someone gets to know you. You are Sociopathically
Obsessed against all things non-Computer Audio. I have no
qualms with using Computer Audio with other Formats. I am
just not going to play my Guitar with Wasapi, Kernel Streaming, Defragmentation Software, Back-up Hard Drive,
Anti-Virus Program, Anti-Malware...etc...etc...etc. There
are easier ways to play a Guitar, and a whole hell of alot more fun! Of course you would obsess over using these things on anything that produces Music. You just can't make me do the same, and "THAT" is why you disagree.
S-O-O...S-A-D!!!

Been to Amazon, Silver Platters, Elusive Disk, Best Buy.....etc,etc,etc- many times over!!! Same thing still applies from all of these sources. What part of "NO LONGER
IN PRINT" doesn't everyone understand? There are close to
ten thousand CDs that are "No Longer In Print", based from all of these sources. About a hundred new releases of NEW MUSIC that are not going to be offered on CD. The issue,
Dear Timlub, is that there now exists a selection vacuum with missing CD selection, and missing Download selection.
Thanks alot for the Music Selection Vacuum. Thanks alot for not waiting until there was adequate Download Music Selection before pulling the plug on CD. Someone is not going to be able to listen to their Music tonight, because it is not available on CD- or as a Download. You just don't get it! You don't eliminate the Old Format until the New Format has adequate Music Selection first. This will be the first time that we are switching Audio Formats where the new Audio Format Music Selection remains "Soon To Be Available" as the availability in the Old Format is GONE! We have never done it this way before in the history of switching Audio Formats, and for good reason. What is the reason for doing it this way now? I thought that we were Adults here, and over premature.......ANYTHING! Are we just getting a little too excited, and eager here? Are we just a little too impatient? Getting a little tired of riding this whirlwind of chaos. Can't even agree on a standard for this Format, it is all over the map! Like
premature...ANYTHING, IT JUST LEAVES A MESS! Yuck! You made it, you clean it up! I am just tired of the mess, and living without Music! Sow your Wildoats someplace else, and watch your aim. DXD, MLP, XRCD, 32-Bit, 24/96, 24/192 will be gone from Disk with no new releases. Only 24/96,
24/192....etc will be available as Downloads. No multi-channel 24/96- 24/192 currently available as Downloads. No
DXD, No MLP, No XRCD, No 32-Bit, No Multi-channel available as Downloads. S-O-O...S-A-D!!! Can you RIP a MLP
Disk, Timlub? Are you going to need special Software for that too??? Cassette Disks with magnetic 1's and 0's, didn't we used to use Lazers? "Flintstones...we're the
Flintstones...."!

Sorry, Theebout. You have taken an extreme version of my premise, and tried to use the extreme to nullify any arguement. You have to completely erase the entire Hard Drive to even slightly corrupt the Music Files stored on it? I think you know better, and so do I. I also believe that Electronic Devices (Like SSD) are succeptible to extreme Electro-Magnetic Radiation, as in a Solar Flare. Same Solar Flare can wipe out any source for replacement of Music Files. There is risk involved dealing with an etheral Format like Music Files. Even if I were wrong, TWO
Formats (Not One) would reduce the risk to the Consumer/ Music Lover. This is not to even mention the usual Ills that affect Computers/ Music Files (Viruses, Malware, Defragmentation...etc...etc...etc). You want me to live wrecklessly with my Music based on a single fragile Audio Format? I say two heads are better than one (Did I.Q.'s just drop sharply on the practical application of this Knowledge, and Wisdom?). In any event, one Adult to another, who here has the right to force anyone to take additional risk on their personal buying choices? Atleast I support a choice, you propose only one. Maybe I am just a fruitcake Audiophile, but numerous Format sources of my favorite Music is my best back-up. Back-up Hard Drive just
another Life Preserver with the same holes in it (Succeptibility) as the original Hard Drive. They are the same mechanism. My goal isn't to dismiss Computer Audio (Something implied that I never CLAIMED), but that Computer Audio- and CD seem to work pretty well together. I am just not willing to bet the Farm on either/or. Not thoughts, or information- just some plain stubborn American Common Sense. Give me something (Or Two) that is robust enough for me to rely upon (For My Music). You can keep the intellectual exercise, I am just a fool who likes listening to Music. You want to limit me on this...WHY???
Your facts have come up short on adequate explanation for this, atleast certainly to my satisfaction. You demand that I make a sacrifice where one isn't necessary, like cutting off your nose to spite your face! IT-MAKES-NO-SENSE! Endless factoids won't fill that vacuum. Nice piece of info though, now lets try some practical application- where does one Audio Format alone have the benefit of that same Format plus another? As you have said, "Everything Physical can be destroyed". That goes for both Formats. This seems to make an arguement for keeping both Formats around. Your single Format benefits who, and for what???
It only imposes more limitations on those who listen to Music, as if a limitation is a benefit (2 - 2 = 4) Your 4 is only an imaginary benefit like Computer Audio. Check your Math again. Not interested in using your Math-Sorry!
The result is actually 0, which leaves me short on my music. Not interested in "Shell Games", where it comes to reducing my Music Selection. I don't see Downloadable Music Files increasing by ten-thousand, to replace the dwindling ten-thousand CDs now out of print. Who should go without their Music while we move toward a single Audio Format (Don't say MP3)? Maybe is not the fragility of Computer Audio that is the issue, maybe it is the execution (CD/Lack of Music Selection) of it taking over. No logical reason to take a hit on Music Selection during a Format turnover- NO REASON WHAT SO EVER! You haven't got the selection to take over anything- EGADS! KEEP WORKING ON IT! Computer Audio still not good enough- N-A-A-A-H-H-H, what else have you got?

Returning to a disposable Cassette on a disk, with magnetic 1's and 0's, IS returning to Stone Age Caveman status. There is risk to the Consumer in purchasing an etheral Audio Format, as opposed to a physical one. Ruining one CD doesn't ruin all of them. What will ruin a handful of Music Files, will probably fragment all of them. All eggs in one basket may feel convenient...But!!!
Hey, two baskets (One Back-up Hard Drive)- perfect solution! Problem solved! This is how your logic sounds. I want to protect my Music with a back-up Format of CD. You want to shoot the whole load on a single Audio Format of Downloading and a daft Solar Flare? No power anyways, so blow away any sense of precaution now? Boy, aren't we living wreckless? My issue has always been that YOU have a right to live wreckless with your valuable Music- You still don't have the right to impose the same on ME! You call this "Good advice and information"? Insult me all you want, I still have the right to keep my Music safe. Damn, never thought that doing so was a crime- THIS IS SAD! Best advice is to keep CD Format as back-up Format for Download Music Files, "JUST IN CASE". "Yes, you do pay for the air that you breath". Is that some twisted way to mean more money in your pocket for the priveledge of us breathing? Well, it is not only CDs and Guns, now you will have to pry the oxygen out of our cold dead lungs. Does nothing belong to the individual anymore? Not property, unalienable rights, right to vote, or even breath. We are all just disposable Carbon Units listening to disposable Music Files. Save me George Orwell, I think that I am going to be sick from all of this "CONVENIENCE"! Being treated like an Animal in an "ANIMAL FARM". So much for an Emancipation Proclamation. Humans as slaves to bacteria- EGADS! What else are we being slaves to? Why is it that only those labeled IDIOTS are the only ones who demand a choice? This is plain narcistic Ego trip, demanding the authority to dictate how everyone else shall be controlled in how they listen to their Music. They don't like it, or
they complain, they must be IDIOTS! Sounds to me like someone deciding that they are just a little more "EQUAL" than others. Is this what it is all about? This sounds more like a personal problem, can't help you. It is obviously about you, not me! I'm willing to share the market among two Formats. Aren't you being just a little greedy demanding that I be allowed to use only one? Sure, this makes me the real lunatic Villain here. Why do I feel like I am the only one who lost something here? Why does everyone here complain more (numerically) than I do, if you already have what you want? Why aren't you happy? Why waste your time here? What do you want from me, Blood? You will just have to settle for all of my CDs, my Gun, and the oxygen in my lungs. Sorry if that comes up short! I know how you hate not getting a 110% of what you want. Grow up, and get over it. There is nothing else left to take (take my wife, please!). There is no Music Selection for me in the Download Music Market, unless it is MP3. Take
my CDs, no Music for me- and YOU are unhappy? This is not enough??? Give it a rest already! Used to pay someone else to Remaster/Rip/Burn my Music onto Disk, now I have to pay through the nose to perform the same priveledge myself? It doesn't get any more Stone Age than that! I am not a Professional Mastering Studio. I don't think that anyone else here is either. Best layed plans of Mice, and Men with cheap laptops. Well, I guess you could always pretend!

Don't want to spend my entire life exchanging barbs. If you
can't agree to disagree- that's O-kay. My ears can hear a
difference between a 24/96 High Res. Optical Disk, and a
24/96 Downloaded Music File (Same Release). Different
Releases, different Sound Quality. Sometimes the Disk
Sounds better, sometimes the Download. How is this possible if both are made from same Music File? I want
whatever version sounds the best for all releases. Blue-Ray
Audio Version, SACD Version, High Res. Multi-Channel MLP
Version, High Res. Download Version. You say they all sound
the same comming from same Music File. I hear a difference.
I believe that they are Remastered differently, and that is
why I can hear a difference. I will keep on appreciating
that difference untill all of the Optical Disks run out. I
will keep on using Downloading as well. I don't hear one
sounding consistently better than the other over many Releases. I get a mixed bag of results. I will pursue whichever Release sounds the best in its respected Format.
I will pursue this so long as limited Optical Disks will allow. I can burn disks; but, I don't believe that I can
Remaster, and produce Optical Disks as well as Professional
Recording Studio's. Concidering that they have the Master
Analog Tape to work with. I have only the Music File.
Inevitable that Downloading will eventually take over.
Will eventually just have to deal with it. Sorry for the
insults. Passions over Music can carry one away. I think
that everyone will survive, including me. No one has lost
any skin here, no one is entitled to any in retribution.
No first blood has ever been drawn. I'm out of your hair
permanently. Computer Audio will be the only thing left in
dealing with Sound Quality. Hope that it is dealt with well. LAST RESPONSE, LAST THREAD (This time I hope that I
mean it!).

Don't meam to be rude, Sunandmusic. This Thread was ended way back in August 2012. No one is paying attention, or responding since then. I wanted the "LUXURY" of playing Optical Disks as well as Downloads. I lost that arguement in a really big way. This Thread is R.I.P.- so are the Optical Disks. "Abandon All Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"!
S-O-O-O...S-A-D !!! No turning back now, we have burned that Bridge. I don't even know where to get ANY Music from anymore. Most of it is just hopelessly splintered across many sources across the Internet. You have to really pull teeth to dig out your desired selection from many sources. Then there is always "I-Tunes". Sounds like "Looney Toones"."Budda-Budda-Budda....That's All Folks"! I can just picture Porky Pig welcoming Lost Souls across the Gates of Hell...."That's All Folks"!

...and be sure to keep the magnets far away from that Hard Drive. Be sure to hope against that next Solar Flare!
I talk Physics, Fragmentation, Magnetic Fields, and Round World (Real World) logic- Chadeffect. You are STILL stuck on Old Testament Flat Earth logic, and reason (Lazarus- are you kidding?). Tell me where you live, and I swear I will buzz your house with a Helicopter carrying the LARGEST Magnet available. You can hold your Computer Music Files up to it if you want. They don't call it the "Blue Screen Of Death" for nothing! What goes for your Hard Drive goes the same for your Back-up Hard Drive. Like trying to stop a bullet with a piece of aluminum foil. We
have already done the the magnetic particle Audio Format before, it was called a Cassette! We got rid of them because of unreliability, and they didn't last. As if a magnetic Hard Disk Drive would be more reliable than Tape. Oh, but its incoded with 1's and 0's this time! Well, that will certainly make it invulnerable. The INCONVENIENCE in Music Files is in their VULNERABILITY. FRAGILE!!! FRAGILE!!! FRAGILE!!! A fragmenting excuse for an Audio Format! It only appears to be Convenient only hiding its Vulnerable Fragility. Smoke, and Mirrors (Premium Price for that Smoke and Mirrors). I smell rip-off. All Rip-offs are sold as being Convenient; because, in reality they are anything but! Microsoft doesn't care about development of Computer Audio. I don't think a small group of enthusiasts are going to change that. You have no Research, and Development- you have no Audio Format. It is out of gas! What are you going to run it on- FUMES? Talk to Microsoft about helping your Format take over the World. I think that they are just jealous; because, they already own it. Why should they help you, or Computer Audio? Take your War to them. Me... I'm just passing through! You (And Microsoft) have alot to talk about- so...I will just be on my way! It ain't me you have to worry about, threatening your Format! Microsoft is your Audio God now. You chose them (For All Of Us). Thank-you kindly! YOU can put the money in the Till. I pass!

No problem, Chadeffect! I have the Sun on my side. You can try and hide from those Solar Flares- you do know that they carry intense Magnetic Fields? You have some Computer Fairie Dust for that? If you ever poke your head out of your lead lined hole, and look North, the sky will look real pretty. The Audio Noise, that used to be your Music Files, will be of the highest Audiophile Quality as well. Solar Flares have been around a long time before I was ever born. Life has never been dull as long as they have been around. "The Computer Audio Gospel According To Timlub". These are your claims according to your Gospel- that real World Physics can be ignored, World is flat, and
Microsoft is a vicious Audio God that denies Computer Audio Sound Quality to everyone. You want Audiophiles to worship this out of "CONVENIENCE"? What, pray tell, are we supposed to expect from this? Do we Audiophiles go Mayan, and do self-sacrifice to the great Computer Audio God Microsoft? We sacrifice ourselves for lower, and lower, and lower Sound Quality- in exchange for more Computer Videos/ Apps/ and Computer Games? Gonna give up your monthly paycheck for a "Few Beans" of Sound Quality? Gonna throw in the towel/your life to sweeten the deal for Microsoft? Isn't THAT Special??? Who could pass up a deal like that (I'll PASS)!!! Computer Audio is supposed to be my convenient "TROPHY WIFE"? What Contest "IN HELL" did I win? "TAPE INDEEED", Dr. Smith! Computer Audio Sound Quality/ Selection/ Service is INDEED "LOST IN SPACE". You find it (And The Missing Link) you let me know! Cassette on a Disk with 1's and 0's instead of Analog. With Technology accelerating like this, why Warp Drive is right around the corner! Who are you kidding??? You want advance warning- just watch for the pretty colors in the sky. This
IS an act of GOD, not MY FAULT by the way. Take it up with your MICROSOFT GOD. You two have alot to talk about- I will leave you two alone! Merry Christmas to the both of you.

Sure I knew the Audio God. You killed him and replaced him with Microsoft. The Old Audio God was concerned about Music, and Music Sound Quality. The New one, Microsoft, ugh....what's their concern about Music Sound Quality???
Z-E-R-O interest in Research, or Development in Computer based Music Sound Quality. Microsoft can give a farthing about anything Music. They are Video/Apps./Computer Gaming Gods. THAT is where a 100% of their profit is. Music just takes away from their Profits. You don't have ANY MANUFACTURER doing development/research in advancing Operating Systems for the improvement in Computer Audio. Without it, your Format is dead in the water! In comparison
please reference all of the manufacturing research/ development in other Audio Formats. In comparison, Microsoft just rolls over and plays dead with Computer Audio. Neat Trick, but you can't use THIS to establish an Audio Format to replace all others. Microsoft is your Formats ball, and chain- and they aren't movin! No research/no development = dead Audio Format! It is simple numbers now, just do the math. Computer Audio will always come up short without Manufacturers support. Don't blame me! Take it up with your New Audio God (Microsoft) that doesn't want to be an Audio God. They don't like Music, don't want to sell it, and don't want to develop it. I fail to see ANY Computer Audio Format in this vacuum, more or less one to replace all other Audio Formats. It doesn't even qualify as an Audio Format. I ask "What Is It Then?", before I buy it! You just want to shove it down my throat regardless if I buy it, or not. I am not buying the "Pet Rock" version of Computer Audio from nothing more than a bunch of enthusiasts. Is this what our Music has come to? S-O-O...S-A-D!!!!! Give me a REAL Audio Format based solely on Music Quality, otherwise what is the point?

No assalt rifles, Devilboy; but, you are still "Going To Have To Pry my CDs From My Dead Hands"! Really, I kid; but has it seriously come to this? You are kidding, right?
"Solar Flares Aside"? Have you forgotten how extremely suseptible those FRAGILE magnetic Hard Drives are to large magnets? First thing to fry will be the Hard Drives during a severe enough Solar Flare. Power Grid will go after all of the Computers controlling it go blank! CDs being affected, I don't see it. CD Player fried, Power fried, these things can be replaced. Music Files stored on your Hard Drive...will...be...a...little...harder to replace. My Stump can tell me when the last severe Solar Storm was, just look at the rings. Radiation retards growth. Sorry,
my Stump tells me just how rediculously F-R-A-G-I-L-E those so-called "CONVENIENT" magnetic particle based Music Files really are. It is the Cassette Tape all over again. Let them sit around long enough, and the magnetic flux just bleeds right off of them. This is Physics, Math, Science, Entropy, and Experience- not crazy rants. Fragmentation is real, Music Files are "CONVENIENTLY" disposable Music Trash. Sort of like the disposable lighter, and the disposable cassette. So long as you have a steady supply of replacements- no problem. You lose that your screwed. Same Magnetic Flux wipes Hard Drive, will certainly wipe your Back-up Hard Drive. Whoaaa- two Hard Drives at once, how CONVENIENT! Don't you guys ever watch BURN NOTICE? Micheal sneeks into a hotel room, and wipes the entire memory off of a Laptop just by swiping it with a powerful magnet. How about the Computer Geek from THE CORE? F.B.I. is knocking at his door, he is trying to destroy evidence. He wipes the memory of multiple Computers by swiping them with a powerful Magnet. You guys sold this "convenient" LEMON to the American Public as a place to store their valuable Music??? I have a Stump you can hide under. Hate to be you if American Public ever finds out first hand. You two will have ALOT to talk about (Along With Microsoft). I will just be on my way. I will be busy looking at the pretty sky. I don't think that you will enjoy it as much. There has just got to be a special place in Hell for those who steal someone else's Music/ Music Format- you think? You will be so busy shaking hands with so many friends there, you won't have time to worry about it. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Guys!

Timlub- I don't know how many times that I have said it! Save the Silver Disk Format along with the Downloads. Ten thousand CDs being out-of-print, and no longer available.
Can you say "Last Nail In The Coffin"? Write to the Companies who are doing this? Forcing us to buy the Downloads by eliminating the CDs? Buying disposable "Convenient" Music Files, as if buying anything disposable isn't a Manufacturer Profit motivating exercise? Why don't they offer a Music File replacement guarantee if anything should happen to your Music Files? Is it because, like Thieves, they know where the money is? You would trust them with your Bank Account Number, along with your valuable Music? My OPINION is to keep CD (MLP, XRCD, DXD...etc) around so as to provide Consumer LEVERAGE on Sound Quality from all of these Downloadable "THIEF-DOMS". You want to throw away any leverage I might have, put all of my eggs in one basket of a single downloadable Audio Format, without any alternative, force me to take risk with my valuable Music, hold my breath for more high resolution download selection, and accept the elimination of any high resolution alternative from Silver Disk? You want me to bet the Farm on a few beans of "Soon To Be Released" Sound Quality? I say that I need some insurance. You say "Give it up, and bite the bullet". Is this what YOU are trying to accomplish? I am bashing Computer Audio, and you are bashing me for doing so. You don't know the difference? Take another look at that long list above. What is "CONVENIENT" about any of it? I see the Consumer being thrown under a bus of a profit motivated single Audio Format. Z-E-R-O L-E-V-E-R-A-G-E for the Consumer in Sound Quality. Manufacturer's can just mop up with ever lower Sound Quality for cheaper Downloads at an ever increasing price- boom "$$$PROFITS$$$"! Step down from being an Audiophile? No Sir, we don't agree at all! You are trying to help Manufacturer's do this? You are not helping me at all by throwing me under a bus. Yes, I am NOT afraid to stand up to you TO MAKE a difference. I am not stopping you from listening to Computer Audio. Wish that I could say the same towards me, and Silver Disks. You show me the necessity for doing this, and not once have you addressed it. Changing Formats exclusively, is a big move. How about explaining the necessity for it this time, if Sound Quality isn't the necessity? Profit? Certainly NOT the Consumers Profit! Format Competition, not convenience, is the Mother of Consumer benefit in quality. My bread is buttered on the side of Sound Quality, not sacrificing it for Manufacturer Profit/Convenience. How about you? Ahhhh...Nuts! Don't waste your time answering that! You are trying to dictate to me how I should be allowed to listen to my Music, no matter how well you try to sweeten it. WRONG on so many levels!!! I know it, and you know it- enough of the B.S.!

Sorry to interupt this mutual admiration society. Most of your arguements contain alot of emotion, but a little short on logic- and reason. No one has even challenged my premiss of Hard Drives being the equivalent of "Cassette Tapes on Disks with magnetic particles of 1's and 0's". Does this mean that you all agree with it? If so, the same threats to magnetic flux based Cassette Tape still remain the same threats to Hard Drives. Stick a gigantic magnet next to your Hard Drive, or a collection of Cassette Tapes!
This will wipe both of them out. It certainly won't be an improvement! If you all disagree with my premiss, then give me the alternate logic and reason based on real World
Physics. CDs lasted too long to make an adequate profit for the Music Companies (Too Long?). Back comes a disposable magnetic based Audio Format (Fragile, Fragile,
Fragile)= !BOOM! PROFIT! Happy days are here again, the
disposable magnetic format (Cassette Tape) is back!
Still, no one will even try to answer why there is no replacement guarantee on Music Files if anything should happen to them. Give me the logic and reason behind that! I
say it is because they expect YOU to have to replace those
Music Files many times over= MORE PROFIT! How can you claim to appreciate diversity in Music, while promoting the
elimination of diversity in Music Formats? Your arguements are very emotional, but your logic (and Reason) still adds up to Buttcuss! Lasers beat magnetic flux, it isn't even
arguementative. Yet, I will see half a dozen responses arguing to death the opposite. Are you trying to convince me, or yourself! You are obviously failing at both. Where
is the Math, where are the Physics, where is the Sound Quality, where is the Selection, where is the Music (besides MP3), and where are your heads- besides in a very dark place? With Computer Audio you haven't got it! Convenience won't compensate for "EVERYTHING ELSE" that goes into an Audio Format. Screw the American Public for thinking otherwise- this will simply not make it true! Time to wake up now as the Magnetic Flux continues to "BLEED". We have a "BLEEDING" Audio Format now? Ain't that special? Put a tornequette on it, and stuff it! CD is
the only adequatte tornequette for magnetically based Music Files. Try going without a tornequette, and you will just bleed to death. Give me an Audio Format that will "Live" a little longer than that! I vote ZERO confidence in any magnetically based Audio Format. Look where all of the Audio Cassettes are now, end of arguement.
Master Analog Tapes fairing a little better, but not by much. Magnetic Music Files, Magnetic Cassette Tapes! Flintstones....we're the Flintstones...! Tired of repeating the "STONE AGE" again on Audio Formats! The only thing that will get us beyond the Stone Age is Quality, Quality, Quality. You want convenience stick with playing with Pet Rocks. You can bang them together for your Music if you want- REAL CONVENIENT! Never mind the Lazer passing overhead.

So what you are really saying is YOU don't have an answer to my question. You could have just said that from the beginning, and saved everyone a whole lot of reading. Repeat after me....I...DON'T...KNOW. If you don't know then you haven't a clue when you say "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads"- do you??? I am just trying to save myself from throwing away tons of money on a defunct audio Format. You are trying to do.....what??? Shoot your own credibility in the foot?
Nice shooting slick!

Low blow on the Wife issue, I will let it pass. "I doubt there are that many CDs you want that cannot be found. But as time passes you will have to go to more specialist shops/websites to find them". Been there, done that many times over. Been searching HD-tracks, and other download Websites. Even lowered myself to search I-Tunes. Selection isn't there (Unless MP3). Gone online to Silver Platters, Amazon, Elusive Disk, Best Buy....etc- to search for the missing Silver Disks. Went to the Stores for particular CDs, ended up empty handed. Ask same Stores to do a search,
answer is always the same "No Longer In Print". Store Salesmen tell me that atleast ten thousand CDs are currently OUT OF PRINT. They apologize, there is nothing they can do. They then claim that it is all due to Downloading. Your presumptions, Chadeffect, simply do not reflect observable realty. THIS is what makes me nervous
(PARANOID- are you kidding) about Computer Audio. None of the claims about it actually match observable reality. This unorganized, "MESSY", and lazy turnover of Audio Formats has ended up leaving a gigantic hole in Music Selection. It is VERY REAL. When you are in a hole of Music Selection, THERE ARE NO CHOICES! You have prematurely rushed an "Soon To Be" Audio Format in Music Selection while selection in the Old Format has BEEN GONE!
We take the hit in giving up listening to our favorite Music. Not available as Download, no longer available on CD ten thousand times over! Who do I speak to about this? Oh yeah! I have been speaking about this for quite sometime- look at the length of this Thread. Most of it due to me having to repeat myself ad nauseum about this problem with single exclusive Downloading Format. Computer Audio Downloading is simply NOT doing it's job in putting the Music Selection IN MY HAND! It is prematurely driving away many more options as fallback in CD. Feeling a real pinch here, and have been deriled/ insulted/ dog piled for trying to bring the current "MESS" of our Music Status to light. Do not need to remaster/ rip anything. Also need to give up DXD, 32-Bit, Multi-Channel 24/96-24/192 MLP, DVD Audio Advanced Resolution, SACD, XRCD, XRCD2...etc. These things are not downloadable, and they may never be. This only adds Advanced Resolution Disks to that growing hole of Music Selection. Can't measure the sound quality of Music Selection that is "Soon To Be". Can't listen to it, and certainly can't use it to replace CD Music Selection that is already gone. I suppose we can't try New Music on CD, that will be gone too. Can't try Remastered releases on CD either. I have seen maybe a handful of Remastered Downloads available. Computer Audio Downloads simply aren't up to speed in Music Selection. Would be nice to purchase even New Music on CD until Downloads are up to speed- OOOPS! TOO LATE! Will have to go without Music again tonight. Simply not available as Download, and Out of Print in CD. Something has simply got to give here! I find this Mess in Music Selection as intoleratable. Convenience isn't the pill to solve this vacuum! Your solution to this problem is to simply attack me for raising the problem. I suppose that you do this because it is simply more "CONVENIENT" than actually having to deal with the problem. Ignoring problems with Computer Audio will surely put a nail in its coffin as fast as CD. If down to a single Download Format, this will mean NO FORMAT- GREAT! If I were you I would be a little more cautious with that "Last" exclusive Audio Format of Downloading. Certainly if you want to make it the only Format we have left. Better take more care of it (Music Selection) than you have so far! I am NOT impressed, and my patience is wearing thin on not having Music. You have better do something to preserve the only (Your Desire) Format we will have left. What you are doing so far, ain't working.
Time to get "RESULTS ORIENTED" on Computer Audio Music Selection. Your Music, New Music WILL DEPEND ON IT! I don't believe that I can depend on Downloading exclusively for my Music Selection for New Music, or ANY Music. Problem is, I can no longer depend on CD as well. It wasn't this way before with our Music. You tell me what went wrong, and fix it- or your Format is simply no good!
If it can't deliver the Music, it certainly doesn't deserve to be the only "Exclusive" Audio Format. Prove me wrong by fixing the problems, not by attacking me! I think you know the problem is unsolvable, that is why your only solution available is to attack me. Confirmation will be in the next response. You are not fooling anyone, if that is the case. Prove me wrong. You guys simply don't know how to replace an Audio Format; because, you are doing it all WRONG! Music Selection results speak for themselves!

My responses are long because some like to dog pile- they think it makes their position stronger. If I hate everything Computer Audio, why do I want BOTH Formats? I use Computer Audio, I know its faults, so do you!
It is a little hard to measure the "Sound Quality" of silence, and weither it should be improved or not. If the Music Selection isn't there, what are you measuring? What is the point? "I understand Petty's concerns, but do not share them". I'm not sure what to make of that one. I can't seem to add it together.
Drubin- no offense. What you say seems like a sales pitch (Or Too Good to be true). Reality just doesn't measure up to your description. It sounds to me like a whole hell of alot of hot air- soon to be. I am certain you believe in what you say- so much so that when someone indicates results that don't match, they must be the fault. Here, and Now (Not Future Soon To Be) Computer Audio Download Music Selection leaves alot to be desired. You have not heard this the first time from me! Here, and Now ten thousand CD Music Selections have been gone for quite some time. Computer Audio is not keeping up.
People, there is currently a whole lot of Music that is NOT available on CD, AND NOT available as Downloads. If "understanding" this concern, "but not sharing it" is the best that 7 pages of Responses can do- I'll take it! Something tells me that you guys know there is a problem, but just want to protect Computer Audio against all. I have NEVER threatened Computer Audio. I have never claimed that it should be eliminated- shoot, I use it alot of the time. I like it, I want to keep it. It's advantages outweigh it's disadvantages. I also want to keep the Silver Disks "just in case" those disadvantages become unmanagable. If that makes me some unreasonable "ALIEN" from another Planet, or a "Borg soldier here to assimilate" (COME ON!). Sorry if it takes a whole page (Or Seven of them), to address such rediculous issues. I am doing the best that I can in as little space as I can. I will try to do better (Assimilation, that is)! I plan on continuing to use Computer Audio, but you have got to give me some slack on the Music Selection on both CD- and Music Downloads. Your Silver Disk Assimilation to Download ONLY
availability- is just being a little bit too ruthless on Music Selection. I am not always right, neither always wrong- I just know that I am missing Music. To me (Crazy Idiot!) that is NOT an option in switching Formats. If that makes me an Alien, so be it- call Will Smith or M.I.B.! Attacking me again in your last Responses- is confirmation of what? Go back and read my last response more carefully, if you don't know. I think you know, so do I. Why continue to pretend? No one here is really an Idiot, unless they pretend to be. Some of us need more time to catch up, unless you just want to leave a big portion of our Music behind permanently. Let me know what Music you want to cherry pick to save, so we will both know what will be available P-U-L-E-A-S-E!

Strongly disagree- Theebout. Your description not so clear. You leave out several important facts. Coronal Mass ejections are created by the Suns Magnetic Field and super heated plasma. When it is ejected it carries its own magnetic field from the Sun. This envelopes the earths own magnetic field (Halfways between the Earth and Moon- are you kidding?). It has its own polarity and interacts with the Earths magnetic polarity. Same polarity as Earth (+ and +) it is relatively repelled. Opposite Polarity attract
(+ and -) with Earths magnetic field means a real bad day for us! You ignore Polarity, the Suns magnetic strength that goes into a Coronal Mass Ejection, and the proximity of this event to the Earth itself. These Ejections are created by the uneven rotation of the Sun. Part of the Sun rotates faster than other, which causes Suns magnetic lines of flux to twist. Super heated plasma follows these lines of flux. When these lines of flux twist so tightly that the ends of the loops actually cross, the loop is ejected from the Sun with tremendous speed and force. Sun goes through a 7 year period where magnetic lines are twisted ever so tightly before either snapping back into place, or ejected. What you are referring to is called a super dense Neutron Star (Not Neuron). Again, you don't need to "Erase" a Hard Drive to corrupt it. All that you would need to do is to fragment the files. They naturally fragment over time because magnetic flux bleeds, just like a magnet gets weaker over time with numerous usage. Just like the magnetic flux bleeds from one layer of a cassette to another layer on top, or below. Audible ghost Music can be heard from one track overlayed on top of another. The issue is that CDs have absolutely none of these problems, or are certainly NOT within question. Temporary is what temporary does as Music File on a Hard Drive- they weren't made to last. If they were meant to last they wouldn't be
T-E-M-P-O-R-A-R-Y, fragile, fragmenting, malware/spyware susceptible, magnetically redundant, disposable trash! Do you know how many Hard Drives are disposed of every year?
Flying shards of metal, what are you smoking? Now please explain just how small these magnetic particles really are on that Hard Drive. We are not talking metal shards, we are talking magnetic flux. Bang a magnet, and you can reverse its polarity. Polarity is kind of important, don't you think? It kind of determines an attractive, or repelling force. How can you talk about magnetic force, and completely leave out the all important thing- the direction or polarity of that force? Maybe a 180 degrees out of phase from "Full of Clarity"? That's more than just a little off! More like half truths, and inconvenient truth severely edited. No more half baked arguements please, it's getting really boring. Talk about Magnetism, and leave out Polarity? Go back to grade school where you can play with magnets again. Can you figure out why some magnets attract while others repell? I am sure that you can figure it out! I will bring a thirty pound magnet and set it next to your Hard Drive and a pile of CDs. We will leave it there for three days. My money will be on the CDs still working- sure bet! Now why would I instead risk that same money on a Virus ridden Hard Drive, and trash the CDs? Nope, I'm greedy- and not a gambler. I insist on having both Aces up my sleeve. That is about as clear as it gets. Let your fancy talk convince me to settle for just one Ace being better than two? I can add you know.
You just prey on the poor S.O.B's who can't- for shame!

Mapman: Sound Quality minus Music Selection equals High Quality Silence. Sound Quality, and Music Selection are both part of the equation. Take one, or the other out of the equation- and you end up with what? An Audio Format ready to replace all others? You seem to want to isolate Music Selection as an objection. My point is that if Music Selection is the first domino to fall, second will be Sound Quality, third will be Computer Audio Download Format AS only Format of last resort. So you are eating up my CD Selection, and pushing Download Selection further towards the edge of a cliff. Continue slow growth of Download Music Selection, and an ever accelerating increase in the elimination of CD Music Selection. Some will lose Music Selection in total. I already have! Many more will fall victim to this acceleration curve. Total elimination of CD Selection (Without Download alternative) may very well create a wave of victims. This could create a backlash, and end up costing us both Formats. I'm left with what??? This is your experiment, switching Audio Formats in this manner. Never been done this way before. We are in unexplored territory now, with the preservation of our Music (Old and New) hanging in the balance. I say our Music is more important to us, and not worth the risk. The Music Selection simply isn't there as a foundation to support Format switchover. In fact the foundation is dangerously eroded for both Formats. Collapse is inevitable, in fact one collapse could instigate the collapse of the other. Of course it isn't clear, neither was the collapse of the housing bubble. It also wasn't clear how housing collapse could bring the entire Economy of the U.S. to its knees. Until this actually happened people ignored the warning signs there too! Keep on investing in property. Housing bubble hasn't burst for decades, and it will never burst for the forseeable future. Economic Bubbles burst based on the deficit of something becoming too large. Your Formats Bubble is based on the deficit of Music Selection. A deficit that can only enlarge when any alternative selection (CD) is rapidly yanked. If your Format cannot fill this- POP!!! This is what you propose with "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Your Format is years, if not decades away from being able to fill that selection vacuum. You are disregarding this, and forcing the acceleration of something that is not ready- POP! I go down with you, with my Music, when Computer Audio Download bubble bursts. This is NOT a favor to me!!! You are taking extreme risks with my Music that I never signed up for. You are writing checks that your Download Format cannot cash, and I don't want to be the one ending up paying the difference! Try a one on one (One advance selection in Download equals one elimination of CD selection). You can do this at any speed you want so long as you are actually really replacing in volume (Download) what you are eliminating (CD). Me thinks that you just want to eliminate "ALL" Music Selection to force everyone to come crawling to Download Format, even if it means having to sacrifice some (If not all) Music Selection. You are being the Monkey playing with a loaded gun, if this is your intention. It goes off, and shoots someone else in the head. I DON'T WANT IT TO BE ME! You object to this, and are extremely offended. You personally attack in response with a dog-pile. You do this to bring down your prey with numbers. Isn't that rich? New Music, Old Music, ALL Music for everyone. Grow up, and face it. Your Format cannot do that, and you have no plans on making it so. You expect it to happen in a vacuum of Music Selection, and make false promises of "Soon To Be" Download Selection (Smoke and Mirrors)- POP!!! We lose ALL Music Selection, and BOTH Formats. Your dangerous game is way too rich for my blood. I think that I will hold onto my blood! Wish that I could hold onto my Music, instead of letting you gamble with it. Me thinks that you are just going to gamble it away on the "CRAP" Tables of Convenience- S-O-O S-A-D!!!

An increase in the number of Music Selection of Higher Sound Quality for a particular Format, IS an increase in that Formats overall Sound Quality. What is the point of only having one, or two selections available of higher sound quality in any particular format. One, or two LPs!
One, or two CDs! One, or two downloaded Music Files! If any of these were the case (And the rest of the selection was trash for Sound Quality) then would it be a stretch of the truth to say that the particular Format is a "LITTLE" short on Sound Quality? Does only one selection of high sound quality elevate ANY Format to high sound quality status, despite the rest of the selection sounding like trash (hypothetically)? This is only an extreme result for example purposes only. Same applies to a lesser degree.
You cannot download DXD, 32 Bit, MLP-24/96-24/192, Multi-Channel MLP-24/96-24/192, XRCD, Multi-Channel SACD, HRx, H2 N2...etc. Tossing the Silver Disks (As many have demanded) means we toss the option of selection in these disks. Argue the Sound Quality of these Disks (I get mixed results) all that you want. We lose the option of ever improving on these Disks, or increasing their selection. For many Recordings, it will be a step down to adopt to Downloading as a Format of last/ only resort. Give me DXD, 32 Bit, MLP, Muli-Channel, XRCD...etc, as available as Download so that we atleast have the option of trying to improve. The point is we don't know where any of these might eventually lead us in Sound Quality if modified/ updated in application. We slam the door shut on any opportunity to find out if we go Download of last/ only resort. I see many Music Servers being capable of storing 32 Bit Recordings. I am hard pressed to find any downloadable 32 Bit Music Files. Yet, everyone is just iching to burn all 32 Bit Silver Disks, or eliminate their selection. Premature is, what premature does! No safety net here, that is my issue. Silver Disks would make a convenient (I dare say) Safety Net for Music Files. Professional Mastering Studio's would certainly do better than some rank amature burning a disk in his garage (Contrary to popular Myth, what a fantasy. Leap tall buildings in a single bound with your spare time?). Suprised to find us coming full circle back to 1980- near the dawn of CD. Right back to argueing "Bits are Bits" with Music Files, as was misrepresented with CD. As if the research into Digital Recording, for the last 32 years never even happened! Can you say, D-E-J-A-V-U? Arguing the same crap, over, and over again ad-nauseum. Finding out we were wrong again, all over again. Well, lets re-invent the wheel 10,000 times more. THIS we call PROGRESS??? We are just re-inventing the same mistakes that we have made for the last 32 years. Slap it on a lunch box, and "SELL IT"!
"SELL IT"! "SELL IT"! In this turmoil of experimenting with our Audio Formats, a safety net (CD) would be prudent.
Nahh! They would rather see us standing naked, like Charleston Heston in "Planet Of The Apes, clinging to a few threads of download Music Selection. Pleases them, to no end, to rip the last threads of CD Music Selection from our bodies. Last fig leaf of self-respect! "Get your filthy paws off of my CDs, you damn dirty ape"! (Joke). Still seems like a bunch of Apes on the steering committee of this thing. Just hope we don't get driven...OOPS!...off of the road. Do we all just pound our chests in salute to Download Music Files, our only/ last Format of resort (The Law Giver)? "BOW YOUR HEAD, HUMAN. Downloading is your MASTER now"! I have to admit that I am a little rebelious here. Can't help it, it is in my Genes. There are certainly alternatives to "THIS"! Why in the world would you want to close ALL of those doors, and go without a safety net? Easier ways to kill yourself, kill ALL Audio Formats, and kill off your valuable Music.

Theebout, in my experience most National Security Secrets, stored on magnetic drives, are stored underground. I wonder why? You suggest that we become Groundhogs to listen to our Audio Format of only/ last resort?
When someone promises you 4 - 2 = 5, and can't compensate for the difference, is it "common sense" oversimplification to ignore it? If you showed "THAT" to Einstein, demanding he keep an open mind, he probably would just walk away. He wouldn't bother wasting any more time with you! You could try reminding him what he said about "...collection of prejudices...", he would probably just keep walking. He would know that you were just trying to sell him a red herring. You are playing SALESMAN, not PHILOSOPHER. He would know that you are just trying to sell him on "You can get something from nothing". You are
also just trying to fill the vast difference with your own ego (Playing God). Using your math hurts us personally, because "WE" have to compensate for the difference- or do without! 4 represents Total Music Selection, -2 represents CD Music Selection, 5 represents Download Music Selection sometime in the future (hot air based on promises). This is the Math of a Salesman, NOT a Physics Professor! So transparent it is "Elementary" to anyone. It is "EXTREMELY CONVENIENT" Math, so extreme to be absolutely absurd. A Bank Teller short changes you several hundred dollars at the Bank, and puts the difference in her pocket. You demand due compensation, and she conveniently claims that you are just applying "Common Sense" oversimplification- and calls you an idiot for doing so. You apply some oversimplification, and call the Police. Common Sense oversimplification is how we keep "YOU" (Mr. Salesman) honest. It "Lets the buyer beware". It lets us aware when you are trying to sell us the Brooklyn Bridge, Snake Oil, or even fragmenting Music Files. It lets us challenge your sales pitch. It protects us with a firewall of distrust. It reminds us that "When someone is promising you something for nothing, it is usually too good to be true"!Is that the type of "Common Sense" oversimplification that you are refering to? No wonder you want to "Coveniently" remove it. It is a pain for you isn't it, and for very good reason! It isn't there for your advantage "SLICK". I guess you can just continue preying on those poor S.O.B's who choose to buy into the "CONVENIENT" Slick Advertizing. You want us to "Oversimplify" getting rid of
"Common Sense" oversimplification, and fill the vacuum with "Absolute Nieve". Talk about being "Simple Minded"!
Can see you coming from a mile away, like two Antelope with night vision goggles spying a Lion. "Carl, is that you again- or is that Theebout"? What are you sneaking around for? I'm too oversimplified, I can't figure it out- NOT!!! Are you comfortable storing DSD Discs, or Music Files ripped from DSD Discs? Burned them yourself perhaps? If it is Discs, you have proved my point! Even you know better than to go Download/ Music File completely as Format of last/ only resort. Still, you want to "SANS" completely the Music Selection in DSD Discs for everyone else. AIN'T THAT RRRRICH!!! Try crunching the numbers on this hypocracy, and tell me what you get! Aren't you special with your special Math!

It took you 21 days to come up with that response? Was there a time-warp when you stepped into that other dimension? Does the math ( 4-2=5 ) still add up in that other dimension? Strongly suggest you seek out Rod Serling in there, to lead you out- and back to reality. Is this a case of "Eddies (Hfisher) in the Space/Time Continium". "What the hell is he doing in there, why doesn't he get the hell out of there"?
All joking aside, you want Downloading to be Audio Format of ONLY/LAST resort. This is your 5th Dimension goal? Put up ( Music Selection, high S.Q. reliability) or shut up. Went out on a limb for SACD/DVD-Audio/ High Res. DVD-Audio/MLP/ High Res. MLP/Mastered 32-Bit Disks....etc.
Going out on a limb (Lack of Selection) was a formula for failure in these High Res. Formats. You must be a glutton for punishment to try that same formula for High Res. Downloads. Give us, and yourself, a break! Strongly suggest you re-asess, and find another solution. When I feel confident that I can safely rely upon Downloads for Old Music/New Music/ ALL Music- THAT is the time to concider canning all of the Optical Disks. You, Microsoft, Apple, and everyone else on this Thread have no plan on getting us there! Current plan is simply not working- Music
Selection results for Downloading simply speak for themselves. Switching Formats is (Music Selection) results oriented. Don't travel down that same road, and add High Res. Downloads to that same growing list of failed High Res. Formats. Would like to keep High Res. Computer Audio around for a little while- and get rid of the damned MP3! It is just clogging up the pipes! MP3 really a bad sign of going in the wrong direction. Praying that MP3 isn't a sign of an endless pattern. That would really make ALL AUDIO irrelevant! You get what you are willing to fight for in S.Q.! Are you going to fight, or roll over with Computer Audio Downloads? I simply cannot support anyone who fights to roll over on S.Q. (MP3) for the sake of convenience. That is simply NOT who I am! There is nothing
"Convenient" about being an Audiophile- it is a royal pain in the ___! It is an isolating, thankless job sticking up for S.Q.! You don't actually think that I enjoy it, do you? It's ONLY perk is S.Q. Take that away, and what have you got? Take away Music Selection, and what have you got left in S.Q.? Music Selection/S.Q. in only/last resort of Download Format- SHOW ME FIRST!!! I have never asked anything less from other Audio Format Switch-overs. No free-bee's for any Audio Format in this Economy- are you kidding? I can't afford it, who can??? You guys must be made of money to spend more for less (S.Q.)- all in the name of convenience. This is something that really NO-BODY can afford.

Trust me, you guys don't need another dose. I have always said that I use Computer Audio, and probably always will. I just don't like anyone forcing me to limit myself to only one Audio Format ie: "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". I am starting to see an explosion of 180 gram Re-issues. With CD out of the ring, that leaves LP vs. Computer Audio. They will compete for market share (As I have always said once CD is gone). You guys know better, so you tell me who is the winner. Just want to know so that I don't waste my money on the loser.
Does Computer Audio have its sights on LP next? License to Kill? Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads. Do we now Download onto a Vinyl Disk? Yes? Hello?
Yes? So much for those wanting LP and Computer Audio. Well, I guess you have a lot to talk about so I will just be on my way. I was never here (Shhhh!). Pull the trigger! Pull the trigger! For once no sweat off of me. I will sit this one out, and just watch this psycho family rip itself apart-
once the dying starts. Someone is going to lose another Audio Format. Who will it be? It is not what I wanted, but there it is. Someone has Blood Lust in their eyes, and it ain't me- so don't go there! This is someone else's doing. I'm just along for the ride AGAINST my own will at everyone else's whim. I wash my hands, after all it is CONVENIENT! I
am subject to your whim, perfectly harmless, so try to go a little easy. It ain't me that you have to worry about. It
might be Mr. Hyde you see in the mirror that you really have to worry about. I tried to tell everyone to go easy on the dose, and not to overdo it- remember? So, how is the hang-over hanging? Me, I'm left with an ever shrinking Music Market of collapsing options. Music selection splintered to the four winds of the Internet. Never going to find my Music again. Splintered into a thousand pieces.
Thought it was supposed to be the C.I.A., not the Music Market. You have had your six!

To All Concerned- News Flash! I DO use Computer Audio; because, I don't listen???
Chadeffect: Of course I am confused when I see the entire collection of the Beattles re-issued on 180 gram LP. This, and many other famous Musicians. I don't think that this is being done without support from the Major Record Companies, or the Artists themselves. "You have failed to see the possibility...". A possibility of soon to be AS current Music Selection in CD is evaporating rapidly. Get your head out of the clouds, and put the download Music Selection on the table where I can actually buy it TODAY! Only then will we negotiate the final departure from CD, LP, etc.
Noble 100: You make my entire case by your own words, and standards. Computer Audio is still too immature, or still in its infancy. So what the hell are we doing tasking an infant ( With Limited Music Selection ) to instantly fill the shoes of a rapidly disappearing CD Format? We are already more than half the way of getting rid of CD Music Selection while the infant still cannot step in to fill the void ( And might not be able to do so for quite sometime ). What do we use to listen to in the meantime, HARSH LANGUAGE?
There is no chaos, or confusion. It is clear as a bell.
Ever since the beginning of the demise of CD Format Music Selection has taken a nose dive. Only thing remotely trying to fill this void is MP3 Downloads. The Selection IS NOT THERE! The Music IS NOT THERE in CD, or Music Downloads. I am worried because I don't believe our Music Archive will survive the chaos, and confusion, of this completely mismanaged Format turnover. The chaos, and confusion is in the execution of this turnover. I am just a simple Music Lover who does the math, and comes up short every single time: NO LONGER AVAILABLE AS CD, AND NOT YET AVAILABLE AS MUSIC DOWNLOAD! Do we end up with: NO LONGER AVAILABLE AS CD / LP, AND STILL NOT YET AVAILABLE AS MUSIC DOWNLOAD?
Yes, I am concerned about the road we are taking- and how it will limit what Music I have available TODAY! LP vs. Computer Audio ( LP loses ) what will be left to listen to tomorrow? Infant is going to have to get off his lazy butt
sometime if he ever expects to carry the load.
It is the complete disregard for this issue that is most disconcerning. It is also how your estimates absolutely
do not match reality as it is today. You are way off. It just seems like you all desire an enlarging Void of Music Selection as motivation to force others to switch Formats. The risk is great that by doing so, you make listening to Audio Music completely irrelevant! Why continue if every single one of my favorite Artists is no longer available on a defunct Format, and not ever likely to be available on a New Format? I guess harsh language will be the only thing left to listen to. Don't need to waste money on a New Format for that! This switchover is completely WRONG by every measure of all other Audio Format switchovers. We are supposed to do without Music till the little infant gets its act together ( If Ever )? Where is the accountability, and where is the respondsibility? I want all of my Music available T-O-D-A-Y! Yesterday it was available, today it is not. GIVE IT BACK!!! Only then should anyone even remotely consider "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Hell of a lot easier to say it than it will be to ever make it happen. You have alot of work ahead of you, better get busy. Instead, you are just sitting on your thumbs haggling with me. You expect everything to happen to you in a vacuum. Twenty years from now you will still be hoping that it happens. That is an awful long "Soon...", don't you think? I will believe it when I see it. You just don't have a lot to show for it T-O-D-A-Y, and nothing but hot air to show for it T-O-M-O-R-R-O-W. Sorry if confidence appears a little low today. This is your plan, take some respondsibility for it. I am just stuck trying to deal with it. It is NOT providing me the Music, DEAL with the valid criticism instead of criticizing me ( For once ). You are not fooling anyone with your silly distractions from the serious issues facing this New Format.
Go ahead anyways it is always what you do. Seven pages of nothing, but distractions as a means to avoid dealing with the real issues of lack in MUSIC AVAILABILITY. Yours is to distract, deny, obfuscate...etc. I KNOW what is available to buy, and YOU don't have it to sell...it is THAT simple.
Nothing you have said so far has changed that, and your lack of desire to even address/ change this situation is self evident! In twenty years we will still be dealing these same issues, unless Computer Audio will be replaced with something else- and then YOU will be struggling to hold onto your Music Archive. I wish you luck!

Hfisher3380- I got it! You are not looking out for Music, you are looking out fer number one- yourself. Well, you can hope all that you want to. Computer Audio wiping out all other formats is a self defeating process. If Microsoft won't develop it, who will? No research, no development, limited Music Selection, therefore a NON-Audio Format- what do you really have to "Wipe Out other Formats" with? An attitude like yours spells certain defeat for Computer Audio. I don't think that people are going to accept a Music Selection about half of what they are used to. Shoot, many of them might just give up listening to Music all together- No Selection. Microsoft would be thrilled to replace all of their Music Apps with more Games, Videos, Programs. With Audio made completely redundant, irrelevant what do you need LPs for? MP3, and LPs, that would make a hell of a combination. Transfer your LPs to MP3, and go frisbee throwing at the park with your LPs. You get old, just remember the old days when you used to listen to something else besides MP3. Hey, No Regrets- RIGHT! Best wishes right back. You cherry pick Vinyl (More Power to you), but want to deny anyone else the ability to chose their own Formats (Absolute Power to you corrupting absolutely). No one should have to tolerate that. My guess is they eventually won't! They will get tired of you being in charge- REAL FAST!!! The conclusion of THAT (With Computer Audio) will not be pretty. We can avoid that ugliness, and still keep Computer Audio- along with other Audio Formats. Of course if you want to carry your ugly attitude with you to the grave (And drag Computer Audio down with you)- knock yourself out! Just don't flatter yourself, it is beneath you (Six Feet Under).

...And you don't wear any sarcasm (Aimed toward you) very well either- Hfisher3380. Your attempt to "STEER" people straight is the "Do all, End All" of what is wrong with Computer Audio. We are people not cattle, and we are not here for your "STEERING" amuzement. Someone stands up to it, and you are SHOCKED/AMAZED/OFFENDED! I'm sorry, but I find this just too "RICH" for my blood. "You just never listen", YOU have never listened to the number of times I have told you I LISTEN to Computer Audio. This has never been about adopting a New Format. It has always been about you demanding the authority to force everyone to eliminate other Formats. WHY SHOULD YOU CARE- what Audio Formats others listen to? It is no business of yours! When others want Computer Audio along with CD- YOU COMPLAIN AD NAUSEUM! You cajole, insult, steer, and try to force others to use Computer Audio as ONLY/LAST resort. Oh, but we can keep our Vinyl with your royal permission- THANK YOU VERY MUCH! You have a very serious Napoleon Complex with ALL Audio, especially Computer Audio. You must live in a fantasy world where your King Dictator ordering everyone around. IT IS NO BUSINESS OF YOURS WHAT FORMATS I LISTEN TO- IT NEVER WAS!!! Your attitude is what makes me dread Computer Audio, and is a bigger threat to All Audio. Seven pages, and you still think it is about Audio Formats? Seven pages, and you still haven't got it- it's about YOU dictating our purchasing choices to US! Seven pages- this is SAD!!! This is much to do about my freedom to make my own purchasing decisions. Step down from your Thrown, grow up, and get real!

I'm going to make this short, and sweet. I do not want to see this Thread going to 8 pages. Calling it quits here. Tried to stand up to defend me making my own purchasing decisions. I am looking at 7 pages of failure at this attempt. Fighting a losing cause, beating a dead horse- here. Haven't even found one person who agrees that individuals should be able to chose their own Audio Formats, not group think- or by Committee. Surrendering my sword on this issue. If this Post is declined, don't bother sending me a notification (Really, after I have just surrendered?). I don't get it, and I never will.

CD's used to be Remastered by Professional Recording Studios, and sold by major labels. Instead now we are required to download a Music File, and burn a CD in our garages. We used to have centralized location of Music Inventory, purchase then take home. Now inventory is splintered amongst many sources for Music Downloads. Unless you search many sources you are more than likely going to miss a Music Release. CD Music selection is dwindling with very rare used CD's going for hundreds of
dollars on the market. All of this is a result of the CD
vs Computer Audio competition. Computer Audio won, we see what happened to CD afterwards.
Now it will be LP vs Computer Audio. Should I be shocked to expect the exact same result with LP? Do we follow "Soon all new Music will only be available as Music
Downloads" to its ultimate conclusion? Are we waisting our
money in an LP resurgence? Can't have it both ways, which is it?

Come on- Guys! There ARE 10,000 CD Releases currently out of print. This doesn't even come close to reflecting what you are saying- Nonoise! Again, if I want to try something
new a CD release different from what I currently own ( And it is one of those 10,000 from the past with no release available as download ) I am just screwed? Boo-hoo, just live without my Music right? This is NOT CDs that everyone
already has a copy of. Please, let someone answer that can at least add. The CD Music Selection deficit is 10,000, and
growing. This is verified from those who still sell CDs- the horses mouth. Don't bury your head in the other end of the horse, and pretend otherwise.
LP never died. Many still use LP, and Computer Audio.
Many even burn a copy of their LPs onto a Music File. Apparently many Major Labels ( and Music Artists ) are creating this resurgence in LP. There has to be at least a
hundred Re-issues in 180 Gram- harder material.
My major question still remains: Do you follow "Soon
all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads" to
its ultimate conclusion? That means giving up LPs for
Computer Audio. That means that you cannot have both! Is
everyone willing to do this? I just want to know so that I don't waste money on the wrong Format. If you are going to dictate to me which Format I will be allowed to use, take a little respondsibility to provide some clarity on this issue. I'm just trying to avoid Formats that go bust (ie.
SACD ). Which goes bust here LP resurgence, or Computer Audio. You guys are steering this thing. How about giving the rest of us some direction?