Russian Tube Preamp, No Return, Here I go again
jond I just wrote to the seller, he gets what I get, simply 'in transit' since march 1st. He mentioned Boxberry, anyone know anything about them? "For my part, I try to constantly send requests to the Russian Post. They answer - "the package is being delivered, please wait." Just this week, another inexpensive way to send parcels to the United States appeared - the Boxberry company. Unfortunately, a couple of months ago, this company did not send parcels abroad yet." |
just saw this interesting preamp, doo deep for my bookshelves, but thought I'd pass along the find https://www.ebay.com/itm/VTA-VACUUM-TUBE-AUDIO-ALL-TUBE-PREAMP-MODEL-SP9-w-BASS-TREBLE-PH-12-PHONO-S... |
chackster, Interesting, thanks for the info, I thought you might be interested in his reply about Boxberry. You know I am patient, I was just curious if they got any more info than 'In Transit' on their end. Occasionally I order things direct from China, thru eBay, Wish ... stuff comes rather quickly, very little money, sometimes free shipping built into an already low price. I am hoping an inexpensive shipping method from Russia re-surfaces so I can buy the Russian tube the preamp uses rather than substitute. Now they tell me the minimum price for a small parcel is $40. USD. |
chackster keyword of my hope is: "re-surfaces". Perhaps, it seems like you are saying: there never was a low priced method from Russia; never close to as low as China was and still is able to accomplish. Past: better time, not better price. "russian 6N23P-EV in the second cascade" Knowing this, the preamp maker should have offered spare(s) at a low cost prior to shipping the unit. If China had 6N23P-EV’s in stock, how much do you guess they would charge to ship a pair? I shake my head at the low shipping charges they offer. |
lewm, thanks for looking this up, very helpful. I agree, thousands of hours, and, my office system gets less work than the main system. On the other hand, it could arrive smashed. It was a 'what if?' and, my recent lousy sounding 6SL7's for my Cayin is a warning about spending money for the wrong substitute. I got lucky, my 2nd choice was a winner. If it sounds great, a direct replacement may avoid a tube chase. |
lewm, thanks as usual for your help. any thoughts on using these adapters? https://www.tubedepot.com/products/6sn7-to-6922-adapter just curious, I am not sure 6sn7 would fit in/thru the case. |
55 Bids! Melton Tube Preamp (just watching for fun while waiting for mine) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melton-MP-12-Stereo-Tube-Preamp/133725006602 Here it is NEW https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melton-MP-12-Stereo-Tube-Preamp/143999271205?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo... |
No, it's complete. They had it ready, they just needed to know what voltage transformer to install when I ordered it on the 12th, they installed it, tested it, got it out on the 17th. Through Russian system, on it's way 3-1-21, finally USA 4-22-21. mx110z, Say what you will, I took it’s cover off when received, no visible problems, no apparent repairs or upgrades. I hosed down all moving parts with contact cleaner a few times as I do with any vintage stuff. That FM radio sounds fabulous, and the Phono section also, I don’t use other inputs, but I tried them, all were noise free. All controls, mode switch, noise free. I have a lot of vintage tubes of these types, new and used, but I'm using the ones it came with, I just got lucky. The whole point of this was, 'here I go again' (taking risks). If things don't work out, I'll deal with it, but I won't letequipment's age worry me. I have a dedicated FM antenna aimed directly to the one Jazz station we have, WBGO, 88.3 if you like Jazz, check em out online. My Fisher receivers, 800C (now Bills) and two 500c's are also amazing, as are the pair of Fisher 80z mono tube amps from 1958. Those I had checked out over the years, a blown resistor here and there, that's it. |
Seller just told me it's here in USA, (that damn JFK airport that held my Russian Tonearm when covid started). I'm going on a short trip, of course it will arrive while I'm gone. Neighbor will fetch it for me. time sequence backwards: EMS delivery from КондровоEE015444252RUUnited States of America Post Passed registration in United States of America 22 April 2021, 18:41 USJFKA, United States of America Processing in United States of America 22 April 2021, 10:03 JFK, United States of AmericaRussian Post Released from Russia 01 March 2021, 00:55 , Rossiya Released by custom house 21 February 2021, 14:49 130980, Arrived at the Post office17 February 2021, 18:40 249833, KondrovoEMS delivery3 kg 794 gFrom: Пряхин С.To: ELLIOTT NEWCOMB Ordered feb 12th, they just needed to install 120 v transformer and test it |
Hmmmm, I'm visiting a friend in Vestal, NY. Same town as Audio Classics https://www.audioclassics.com/ Right next to McIntosh in Binghamton https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/brand/contactus last time I went I dropped my McIntosh SS amp and preamp, they certified them, sold em in factory boxes, bought the Tube amp and preamp. Now that I think this little Russian preamp will be here when I return, I'm gonna drop my McIntosh mx110z Tube Tuner/Preamp for a once over, see what A C recommends. It sounds great, love it, but it's original, never messed with that I can see, over 50 years old. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Yet ... |
mx110z has an appointment with Ryan at Audio Classics, wed 8:15 am. Russian Preamp arrived a few hours ago. Very nicely/safely packaged. 1. Took cover off, exactly like photos posted, EXCEPT all connections are made! 2. confirmed transformer is 120 volt. 3. they didn’t have a US power cord (it’s detachable type), so he gave me a Jeff Beck CD in the box. Got cord, Bill’s friends at Greenbrook Electronics, $4.00 4. four tubes, two 6n4p; one 6N23P; one 12ax7EH each tube marked, 5. BUT, no indication where they go in the unit. Seller will send photo with locations shown. That is quite a mistake. I recall he mentioned one customer put the tube in the wrong socket and blew the board. They sent him a replacement board and instructions how to change, but that never would have happened if they just included the photo or a diagram. So, I’ll listen as usual via mx110z with my friend this afternoon. I’ll test the Russian preamp via Office System, Carver Cube tonight Tomorrow compare Russian to mx110z as-is. Sunday, pull/take mx110z north to Vestal, NY to visit my two photo buddies I met online. Wed. am mx110z to the doctor for checkup. when mx110z gets back from the doctor I'll compare to the Russian again. |
It ain't going well at all! I'm off for a week, just thought I'd let you know I might regret it this time. Damn I wish I had seen that Luxman C35 before I ordered this. It was here in NJ for me to pick up, custom Rosewood Case, only $1,800. Would I have known how good a price that was? Would I have spent that much money? I'll never know. |
Problem is noise, mostly hiss, some underlying hum. Unit waits 1 minute, then defaults to 10% volume, Phono. Noise, both channels, increases both channels as volume wicreases. Noise at all 3 line inputs, however the noise is louder at Phono input. Same noise with no input, just it's output to my Cayin which doesn't know how to make noise. ............................ IF it was good when shipped, only 2 things changed 1. shipping (arrived in good shape) 2. changed power cord Could it be the Power Cord? It’s a detachable power cord. Seller didn’t have USA, so apologized, shipped with one with two round pins (no 3rd separate ground pin). He used a voltage converter to test it with the 120v transformer he put in. He said no noise. I could use an adapter on his cord, or a replacement cord. I bought a USA detachable cord, same fitting at unit, 2 flat blades, no 3rd ground pin, no wider blade for orientation. Just like what comes with many TT, like my Panasonic in the shop. Never had a problem with any cord in my system. I could switch the cord I bought for the one downstairs, but if it was a power cord issue, that would be hum, not hiss correct? |
I returned from my trip, took videos showing hookup and recorded noise. Just sent to seller. Tomorrow is going to be the end of seller's hope that I am doing something wrong. Noise even with nothing connected, just preamp to amp. Both channels, all input selections, 3 videos recorded noise increasing as preamp volume is raised. Tube placement is quadruple checked, they sent me a photo with the USA and Russian tube designations clearly shown. |
I just started a claim via eBay, seller has until 5-6-21. Then eBay gets involved. I will call my credit card company to see how they can help if needed. I have documented things VERY well, photos, recap of all messages, videos of noise at low/mid/high volumes. I have original undamaged shipping box. ............................... How did I make this mistake????? Initially all I wanted was a small tube MM phono eq for my office system. Saw this. I liked its size to fit on top of or in my bookcase. More inputs: I could also run the R2R tape thru it. Wood ends (I would have replaced with my own thicker wood). this caught my eye: ... "analogue of the famous M-7 preamplifier from Mr. Hiroyashi Kondo". I checked HK out, impressive ... Photo of innards: Admit it, a LOT of expensive equipment looks similar inside, nice transformer, alps vol pot, ... yes this is a kit look. Tubes, not a hybrid. Soft start, remote volume ... Hmm, tubes: I could drag my 1958 Fisher 80z mono blocks out (still can of course). https://www.google.com/search?q=fisher+80z+amplifier&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS881US881&sxsrf=ALeKk029... Past luck: JVC big plinth and TT81 from Russian in Canada. Long Russian Tonearm from NewArtVinyl http://newartvinyl.ru/board/detali_proigryvatelja/tonarm_black_bird12_5_carbon/7-1-0-41 and, I think I discovered, the RISK was part of it. You win some, you lose some (hopefully not too many). |
lewm, l feel bad for the seller also, I have to believe it was ok when he shipped it. However, you will see below, seller is not blameless. Here's the text of my claim to eBay: "Reason for return: Doesn't work or defectiveComments: Item ordered 2-12-21; arrived safely, no package damage 4-23-21 No power cord for USA provided, I purchased correct power cord. No instructions for tube locations. I waited until seller provided photo (attached), then installed the 4 tubes (types were marked by masking tape). Connected 4-24-21 DEFECT: Item makes Hum/Hiss NOISE. Noise increases with Volume, both channels, even when no equipment connected, just the unit connected to my amplifier (my amp has no noise, nor does any of my equipment, you hear just the music). Informed seller of defect, many messages, attempts, all failed to eliminate the noise. Looked inside, found loose ground wire (see photo). Connected wire as per seller s instructions: noise actually increased slightly. I made 3 videos of noise: low/mid/high volume, sent to seller. I made a recap of messages, 4-25-21 to last night 4-29-21, a WORD DOC I can provide. Unit sold as NEW. Actually 7 months old, see date on loose wore photo. Seller messaged: preamp used in his home, (see photo with his Cat laying on top). I request full refund including shipping cost: $533.13 IF the seller wants the item returned, I have his original undamaged shipping box and can pack it as received. Seller would need to prepay for return shipping. NOTE: I should receive refund NOW. It takes over two months to send usa to russia. I need the refund NOW to buy a preamp to listen to my music! regards, Elliott" ......................................... that's a recap of a whole lotta messages. I, and they suspect it is one of the Russian tubes (that have no substitute). IF they had offered spares, (or simply included spares, they are very cheap over there), then I could test/prove that. I'm not waiting months to find out, so I made my claim. the 3 Russian tubes did not look new, no boxes, they had masking tape with numbers on them. The 12ax7 EH is new, and I of course tested it, and tried one of my own just to be sure. |
lewm, thanks for trying to help. yes, we did discuss substitute 6922 for 6n23p. The seller in a message about this problem said the 6n4p should not be substituted. (even though the item description on eBay mentions using 12ay7) (12ay7 can be swapped for 6072). At this point, I am unwilling to buy and try new tubes, substitute or original. |
Thanks but I'm done trying. I now think the phono board got damaged in shipment somehow, what a shame. See my newest enthusiasm in this new thread https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/luxman-lx33-integrated-tube-amp-yeah-nay about this LX33. https://www.ebay.com/itm/154051395889?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=533... |
I paid $533. total delivered including tax seller offered me: $400. keep the unit. Noisy unit, mine $133. IF I knew the noise was JUST tubes, then it’s a good deal, I buy substitute tubes, get lucky. I sent the seller 3 videos: noise increases at 3 volume settings: low/med/high. both channels. noise with TT connected; Noise with nothing connected. ......................... I asked about tube substitutes " New message to: raketoffI hooked it up again, phono l/r/g to unit. 3 other inputs with rca plugs. unit to amp (no open inputs). Identical hiss-prevalent noise, increases with volume, both channels. How much do you suspect the problem is noisy tube(s)? to be clear about substitute tubes: 1. unit has two Russian 64np. Can 12ay7 be used without modification? Can 6072 also be used without modification? 2. unit has one 6n23p. Can 6922 be used without modification? E88cc used without modification? 6dj8 used without modification? 3. unit has one 12ax7 which is easy to get here." .......................................... Why bother trying? I can hang tough, get full $533, and probably keep the unit even then. I looked all over, there is nothing that fits on top of my bookcase that I like, especially low price. I don't need this, never did: I just thought it was an easy way to get tubes in the office, it's compact size, it's wood sides. I still like the idea. |
Sergey's response, he says NO to using substitute for 6N4P " Dear Elliott!
Suppose nothing was shaken during transportation and the preamplifier is in good working order. Why there may be noise: - bad connecting cable. This happens. I have a couple of factory cables that are noisy and made by myself - no noise. - incompatibility of components, low input impedance of the power amplifier. A similar case was with one of the AT-11s sold in Russia. After connecting to another power amplifier - thanks for the sound. - it is possible that the power supply network in your house is phoning. You have an abundance of technology there, so it is quite possible.
About tubes. They are very unlikely to cause noise, provided they are properly installed in their nests. 12AY7 and 6072 - CANNOT be installed instead of 6N4P.
6922, E88CC 6DJ8 - can be installed instead of 6N23P.
But it can also be assumed that some kind of contact has departed during transportation. If the noise is low frequency, maybe something has fallen off (or on the verge of it) in the power circuits.
What a shame I can't look at the preamplifier. As a designer, I am very worried about my work. How so - 4 pieces sent to different countries sound perfect, but with yours - such a disaster ... Best regards, Sergey" |
chakster, anyone? Seller accepted my full refund request, but say's unable to send me a pre-paid return label. Who knows the Easiest, Safest, Least Costly way to ship a package from USA to Russia? I have his shipping box, will weigh and measure it, then I'll tell the seller the cost, they can send me that amount via PayPal. |
robertrs Enthusiasm Curbed: I don’t know, I feel more sorry for Sergey than myself. He packed it well, I ended up thinking the phono board was somehow damaged during shipping. I am definitely going to avoid tube types not readily available. The listing said substitutes for Russian 6N4P was possible: "It is made according to a two-stage scheme on vintage 6N4P low-noise tubes (you can also use modern analogues 6072WA or 12AY7)" but sergey wrote: No, DO NOT substitute. I had a JVC Large Plinth with TT81 from Canada arrive, plinth, long tonearm and dust cover smashed, just irresponsible packing by seller. Took some time and effort but I got my money back. Found another one from Vlad, a Russian, also in Canada, he assured me about packing, took a chance, it’s my wonderful 3 arm TT now. Much of what I/we want is located in foreign lands, and I will go thru whatever to get what I want. As my client said "3 months is but a speck of time". Japan has been trouble free for me. LX33 seller takes returns, and says this: "This unit is in very good condition overall, and shows some light natural signs of aging (please see photos), including some minor scratches. The bass knob is not the original part. The amp has been thoroughly tested and checked by our professional in-house technician, confirming its flawless working quality. Luxman amps are known for their robust construction and use of the highest quality parts, so it’s likely this unit will see many more years of use." Seller, past 12 months: 413 positive, 10 neutral/negative feedback (2%), a slight risk. https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/unisound?filter=period:TWELVE_MONTHS,overall_rating:NEGAT... eBay, PayPal, Credit Card all protect you, so if not 'flawless' I would simply deal with it. |
lewm of course not physical appearance, function: he says "flawless working quality" that's a ridiculous thing to say for a used item, but it gives a buyer a way out if another disaster happens, like I just went thru with a NEW flawless item. I tried my very best before rejecting it, more than most others would have, or could have done. It will cost Sergey $99.70 to ship it back. I think he wants to find out what went wrong for the future. |
Oh yeah, I made an offer last evening for a 2 month old Luxman SQ-N150. Current Model, Integrated, MM/MC, 10 wpc, remote volume, small, fits on bookcase easily. http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=33 Far more than I was thinking, I justified it this way: I'm pre-spending the money I'm gonna get when I sell around 3,500 LP's. Not vintage, no wood, but will be cool looking between my Grey Mitsubishi Vertical TT (they look like metal, but are painted wood) and Black Teac R2R. Damn thing has internal bias like my Cayin. The one I'm after has original tubes in original position which luxmanamerica advised me to verify. USA voltage. I asked Ryan at Audio Classics about them, he said this: "As far as the SQ150, that is a great unit. The Luxman has been very popular in the past year. Very appealing to the McIntosh enthusiasts it seems. Sweet, never bright, and very very low noise. It would match very well with the Wharfdales". |
Seller was totally honorable, prepaid $100. return shipping, I dropped off at USPS, sent him a copy of the receipt and Customs Form, he instantly refunded original purchase: unit, shipping, tax. Not waiting months to get the unit before refund. A disaster, yet I don't regret ordering it. My decision to trust them proved true. They trust me as well, that's rewarding in itself. |
yes, it maintains my faith in mankind, which is too often hard to do. seller just agreed, I just paid for the Luxman, whew, the torture of research, selection, optional ideas is over! As it happens, my McIntosh preamp is with Audio Classics, so I will be able to use this 10 wpc with my main system to get Phono back while waiting. It will be fun to see how 10 wpc does with those very efficient horns. Still gotta move those 15" woofers, I’ll take it slow. Then move the Luxman to office system as intended. For fun I will try 10 wpc to Wharfedale’s (only 87 sensitivity) without self-powered sub, but then go first to pre-out to sub, then back to amp main-in with no need for low bass, should help both the amp and the speakers do a cleaner job. This is the lowest power amp I have ever owned/tried. |
surfmuz your post with this video is the bottom of page 1, so funny, as I often think it is the last post and click the video of Robert Plant the Russian Cave Dweller https://youtube.com/watch?v=f5tS2ikuuro&feature=share |
