Very interesting review of the Thiel 2 2 by Zaikesman because his system mirrors the system I used for quite some time. I used a conrad-johnson CAV50 (EL-34 based 45 watt tube integrated amp) and Cardas Cross cabling with the Thiel 2 2's and they played music wonderfully. Various speaker reviews lead me to believe that the Thiels were a tough load, but I never thought the Thiels needed more power. But then, I live in a condo and never play them really loud. They're an incredibly well constructed and designed speaker. I could have easily lived with this combination, but I got a great deal on a cj Premier 11A amp and a cj Premier 17LS preamp, so I replaced the CAV50. This moved the system to the next level and the clarity of the sound through the Thiels was even more amazing. I've shopped around and listened to a lot of other speakers over the years (JmLab, B&W, Martin Logan, etc. . .). What can I say, I love to check out the competition. The test that the Thiel 2 2's pass is that I've always thought they sounded as good as or in most cases better than the higher priced speakers I've auditioned. That's why the Thiels, though now long in the tooth, are still in my system. -- John
Review: Thiel Audio CS-2 Speaker
Category: Speakers
Over several years I had upgraded most of my equipment to the described system except for the MF2300A which used to be an MV50. I needed to upgrade my speakers. I got a decent deal on the used Thiels. I had heard the good reputation, most of which was based on later models. When they were installed, I immediately heard incredible mid range but there was no bass and the treble was bright and painful. When I would push the Thiels at high volume, I would get more perception of bass but it was really just the amp operating outside it's intended range. I tried to listen to the CS2s off and on for about 4 months, until I gave up and replaced them with the old speakers. I did more research and found enough specific inforamtion about the thiels to understand that the MV50 just never would drive them properly. So I had to decide between selling the MV50 (which I loved) or the Thiels (which had consistently given me headaches). I researched Proac and Vandersteens and found several candidates, but I felt that if I didn't try a bigger amp I'd be giving up too early on the CS2s. I called CJ and they recommended a big SS amp like the MF2500.
So after about 2 years of swapping the CS2s in and out of my system and never being happy, I had to know if they would ever sing. I found an MF2300A (here on Audiogon). I gave up the MV50 as a partial trade, so I was in all the way. When I connected the big CJ arc welder, I did not get an amazing improvement in bass or treble charateristics but there were some subtle differences and the bass that was there was well controlled at higher volumes. So I called Thiel and asked a few questions. I was told that I shouldn't have these problems and if I wanted to ship the speakers, they would test them to see if they were in spec (These are 15 year old speakers and I am not the original owner, so I was very impressed with the attention and service!). I was told that they voice the speakers with MIT cables and was encougaged to double check my cabling. I was using Tara Labs T/S II and had always finger tightened the connectors. This time I used a tool. Well, that cured the major problem with the high frequencies and improved the bass. The spades were not mating well with the binding posts. But the treble was still somewhat forward and fatiguing. I found some used MIT MH750 cables (again, here on Audiogon). Now it sounds right! There is still not very deep bass, but there is much more and the shrillness is completely tamed. (Just to be clear, I am not looking for boombox/HT bass. I listen to alot of live recordings and I know what the show was like. I just want that out of my speakers.)
The MF2300A->MH750->CS2 combination is unreal. The imaging is spectacular and since the fatigue is gone, I want to music listen all of the time. The best music is voice and piano or voice and guitar. Tuck and Patti are as clear as if they were in the room. I've been in the room with them live and know what to expect. David Grisman is incredible on these speakers. I can hear fingers touching strings when before I could only hear the string. Now I can hear singers taking a breath before the note. My collection of studio CDs has been idle for over ten years due to boredom. But Now I'm going through every one again to hear what I can and I do hear new sounds that I never heard before! There is still not enough bass, so I have a Vandersteen 2Wq on the way (Audiogon yet again). I'm confident that that will complete the sound. The sub is coming from someone that used it with --- yes, Thiel CS2.3 speaakers.
So in summary:
The Thiel CS2s really do need an amp with alot of reserve power. My moderately powered CJ tube amp just wasn't up to the task.
The connectors did not easily mate to the spades of my original wires, and the CS2s give alot bad energy at high frequencies when the cables aren't connected properly. In the end, the best performance was using the MIT cables as recommended by Thiel.
The CS2s are excellent for material that is mostly in the midrange. Voice, guitar, and piano are spectacular. Studio rock and classical and live rock performances aren't fully revealed. Bass guitar and bass drums seem really rolled off. So a sub is a neccessity.
If you take the time to match components well, the CS2s are a great bargain at the currently available rates. You could get decent full range speakers for the same money as used CS2s and a decent pair of subs. But I'll keeping these for a while and I'd recommend them to anyone willing to get the required matching components.
Associated gear
Tascam DA20 DAT
Tascam CDRW700 CDRW
CAL Sigma II DAC
CJ SC25
CJ MF2300A
Over several years I had upgraded most of my equipment to the described system except for the MF2300A which used to be an MV50. I needed to upgrade my speakers. I got a decent deal on the used Thiels. I had heard the good reputation, most of which was based on later models. When they were installed, I immediately heard incredible mid range but there was no bass and the treble was bright and painful. When I would push the Thiels at high volume, I would get more perception of bass but it was really just the amp operating outside it's intended range. I tried to listen to the CS2s off and on for about 4 months, until I gave up and replaced them with the old speakers. I did more research and found enough specific inforamtion about the thiels to understand that the MV50 just never would drive them properly. So I had to decide between selling the MV50 (which I loved) or the Thiels (which had consistently given me headaches). I researched Proac and Vandersteens and found several candidates, but I felt that if I didn't try a bigger amp I'd be giving up too early on the CS2s. I called CJ and they recommended a big SS amp like the MF2500.
So after about 2 years of swapping the CS2s in and out of my system and never being happy, I had to know if they would ever sing. I found an MF2300A (here on Audiogon). I gave up the MV50 as a partial trade, so I was in all the way. When I connected the big CJ arc welder, I did not get an amazing improvement in bass or treble charateristics but there were some subtle differences and the bass that was there was well controlled at higher volumes. So I called Thiel and asked a few questions. I was told that I shouldn't have these problems and if I wanted to ship the speakers, they would test them to see if they were in spec (These are 15 year old speakers and I am not the original owner, so I was very impressed with the attention and service!). I was told that they voice the speakers with MIT cables and was encougaged to double check my cabling. I was using Tara Labs T/S II and had always finger tightened the connectors. This time I used a tool. Well, that cured the major problem with the high frequencies and improved the bass. The spades were not mating well with the binding posts. But the treble was still somewhat forward and fatiguing. I found some used MIT MH750 cables (again, here on Audiogon). Now it sounds right! There is still not very deep bass, but there is much more and the shrillness is completely tamed. (Just to be clear, I am not looking for boombox/HT bass. I listen to alot of live recordings and I know what the show was like. I just want that out of my speakers.)
The MF2300A->MH750->CS2 combination is unreal. The imaging is spectacular and since the fatigue is gone, I want to music listen all of the time. The best music is voice and piano or voice and guitar. Tuck and Patti are as clear as if they were in the room. I've been in the room with them live and know what to expect. David Grisman is incredible on these speakers. I can hear fingers touching strings when before I could only hear the string. Now I can hear singers taking a breath before the note. My collection of studio CDs has been idle for over ten years due to boredom. But Now I'm going through every one again to hear what I can and I do hear new sounds that I never heard before! There is still not enough bass, so I have a Vandersteen 2Wq on the way (Audiogon yet again). I'm confident that that will complete the sound. The sub is coming from someone that used it with --- yes, Thiel CS2.3 speaakers.
So in summary:
The Thiel CS2s really do need an amp with alot of reserve power. My moderately powered CJ tube amp just wasn't up to the task.
The connectors did not easily mate to the spades of my original wires, and the CS2s give alot bad energy at high frequencies when the cables aren't connected properly. In the end, the best performance was using the MIT cables as recommended by Thiel.
The CS2s are excellent for material that is mostly in the midrange. Voice, guitar, and piano are spectacular. Studio rock and classical and live rock performances aren't fully revealed. Bass guitar and bass drums seem really rolled off. So a sub is a neccessity.
If you take the time to match components well, the CS2s are a great bargain at the currently available rates. You could get decent full range speakers for the same money as used CS2s and a decent pair of subs. But I'll keeping these for a while and I'd recommend them to anyone willing to get the required matching components.
Associated gear
Tascam DA20 DAT
Tascam CDRW700 CDRW
CAL Sigma II DAC
CJ SC25
CJ MF2300A
- ...
- 11 posts total
- 11 posts total