Revel Salon 2 versus WP 8

Hey again everyone.

I now have a pair of Salon2s to compare to my W/P8s in my listening room. We just put them in the room today. I'm giving them two weeks to break-in.

I already did in-room measurements. They aren't that different from each other in terms of in-room response. In terms of listening to the mid-range, the W/P8s image more precisely and cleanly, with more space between instruments and with the instruments better defined in space. I need to do more listening to the bass and treble between the two before I compare those, as they will require more thoughtfulness in my listening than the critical mid-range requires. This is without the Salon2s being broken in, so a lot might change in the next two weeks. This is also without the speakers in the same position the W/P8s were in. I'll have time to play around with these things as the Salon2s break in.

The two measure so much alike it is creepy. The Salons2s don't roll off as much in the high frequencies, but from the Stereophile measurements I have seen of the Studio2, it is likely because it is shelved up +2dB for a good portion of the high frequencies. That shelving in unison with natural room roll off makes their in-room high frequency response not rolled off enough IMO. As I mentioned previously, the W/P8s do have slight roll off anyway and looking at the Soundstage NRC W/P8 measurements reveals it as well. OTOH the Salon2s are rolled up, but I do have a treble control I will play with at some point as well to lower it to a flatter anechoic response for the sake of another group of ETF5 measurements.

I hope some people are willing to put their money where their mouths are (like I have), because I will be keeping whichever speaker I ultimately think sounds better. This means I will have a pair of used speakers to sell on Audiogon after my testing is finished (that is where the money where the mouth part comes in...). ;)

If anyone wants to see the preliminary measurement overlays of the two speakers I have made three overlays in ETF5. The first is of both speakers at 70dB (1/6th octave), the second of both at 80dB (1/6th octave) and the third at 80dB (1/12th) octave. I will at some point today post the 80dB measurements to my Audiogon System Equipment list. The 70dB (1/6th octave) doesn't differ from the 80dB (1/6th octave) measurement so I won't bother posting it. I'll also post a pic of them in my room, for the benefit of those who don't actually believe I am this insane!

I have to say, I am a little upset. For all the griping I have heard on fora everywhere concerning the importance of minute differences in frequency response measurements (which I bought into as a reason for making this comparison; in hopes of improving my sound quality), I am a little unenthusiastic when considering the similarities between how they both measure in my room in the critical frequencies... I expected some bass issues in my room to be resolved, but instead the speakers have revealed that those bass humps are room issues, not speaker related issues (yay... and boo...), because we know the Revels are not going to be wildly off a flat frequency response in those areas.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "best speaker," only a "best speaker for me." So any decisions I make are ultimately made on the basis of what I enjoy.

If you decide to sell the WP 8's let me know. If I can afford them I will buy them (unless they are some weird color or something). Enjoy.

Wow, Jkalman, that's dedication!

Looking forward to further measurements and impressions.

Jkalman,

You are giving your in-room measurement too much weight. These measurements below 600 Hz have little to do with the speakers and a lot to do with the room. Above, although you are measuring room reflections as well, you can tell more about the speakers behavior. The differences are not as subtle as you may think. The steady decline of the W/P trebles, starting at 4K, will dramatically change the overall balance of sound. In general, even under rough measurement like what you have here, you can see that the Salon, are smoother and better behaved overall.

Dhaan,

I'm well aware of how measurements work. I've read the Master Handbook of Acoustics, some portions more than a couple of times. I understand that in-room measurements show the room interaction with the audio output (this is very basic stuff, which makes your post seem condescending to me...). I know how to analyze the two signals and see which are room modes, which are room nulls and how they cancel out between both speakers in an overlay.

What you aren't taking into account is that the Salon2 and Studio2 are both shelved up ~2dB in areas of the treble. You can see this in the Stereophile anechoic response from this months issue. That isn't balanced, it is shelving... OTOH, the W/P 8 does roll off after 12K, which is something I mentioned previously in that other thread when some people were saying it is bright (it isn't bright, however, the Salon2 is bright in comparison... You can hear it too, which I'm hoping will fade more as it breaks-in further). I was open in the last thread about having a list of issues I've had with the W/P8. The kickdrum issue and high frequency roll-off are major ones.

Likewise you can see the extra bump between 60-80Hz of around 4-5dB on the W/P8, which is a bit heavy in the kickdrum area. This is audible and bothersome in my room. If that area of the frequency response weren't already experiencing room reinforcement it might be pleasant to have some extra kickdrum, but with my room issues in that area it is too much. That is the room though, much more than the speaker, as you can see that the Salon2 exhibits the same issues but with 4-5dB less amplitude.

Now the shelving down in the mid-range on the W/P8 is actually useful design if you want a speaker that can be placed close to walls. This shelving is what allows the speaker to be placed well in a HT or other room where it needs to be out of the way. The Salon2, even with boundary compression turned on to the fullest still has to be placed out significantly further from walls in my room or the chestiness cause by bloating in the 200-300Hz region is intolerable. The boundary compression doesn't work that high up in frequency. So if I wanted to place both speakers in the same area by the sides of the room I would still need to use PEQ, but I would have to PEQ different areas of their frequency responses (W/P8 60-80Hz, and Salon2 200-300Hz regions).

My experiments with both speakers so far have shown me that thoughtful design doesn't have to mean a flat frequency response. In some cases an intentional shelving of the response allows for closer boundary placement, as is the case with the W/P8.

I digress though, I keep forgetting that your sole intention around here seems to be to sling mud at Wilson speakers and try to sell Magicos. Perhaps you should work on balancing your own approach to things. You would likely come off a lot better on these fora if you didn't assume nobody but yourself knows anything about these topics.