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record cleaning findings/puzzle

Hello Gentlemen,

I have been experimenting today with steam cleaning my records. I am looking for support of my findings.

I used 2 identical records ( as well as others ) one I cleaned with the vpi 16.5 and my homebrew 25% isopropyl(99%), 75% distilled water (pharmacy)

Steps

1.Mo-fi brush one 2-3 cycle with cleaner, vacuum 2 cycle
2.audioquest brush, distilled water rinse 2 cycle, vacuum
3.Play

(The brushes were just ones I had around, I did not pick these for any particular reason)

The other record was cleaned with the same brushes, same method, but I also used the hand held steamer during steps 1 and 2. I kept the steam on the record 2-4 inches away, for duration of scrubbing.

I assume there is a sonic print to my solution, is achohol typically bright/harsh sounding?

Between the 2, at first I found the steamed ones to sound more organic, maybe slightly rolled off in the highs, but just warmer and more detailed everywhere else except the highs.

When I play the Alcohol only, cleaned record the highs are more present/forward, and noticeable, but upon further listening I notice a lack of depth because of it. trick details.

Here's the good part:

I then switched the cleaning methods for both records ( and others as well) and the sonic footprints followed each method onto each record. I did this back and forth 3 times with this pair and four times on another single record.

I am assuming I am hearing my solution, but could the steam somehow be reacting with my brushes and maybe melting them, or leaving something I am hearing on the surface which is damping the highs. At first I thought I wrecked the records, then I started to notice the inner details in the rest of the spectrum other then the highs, and when I added my solution again, the highs came back, now sounding to strong and glaring.

Which is the real sound of this record?
Has anyone else found this too?

Thanks,
Mike
hanaleimike
inpepinnovations
134 posts
 
I'll second Maclogan's assertions with reference to alcohols (at least the small lecule alcohols such as IPA)dissolving the high molecular weight plastizers, di-octyl phthalate being one of them, that are used in the PVC used for records. It doesn't happen!
One would have to be using the alcohol from which the plasticizer (an ester)is made, in the di-octyl phthalate case, 2-ethyl-hexanol.

Salut, Bob P.
oilmanmojo
472 posts
 
audiofiel: agree that surfactants lower surface tension. Alcohol will act as a surfactant in solution with water as will detergents and other chemical compounds. I also agree that alcohol does aid in evaporation as it helps create an azetrope with water that evaporates easier than water. As a chemistry student did several experiments during my college career involving different materials that impact surface tension of water. Lots of materials impact surface tension. If you want to perform an interesting experiment to prove the point. take a very clean mirror. Add a drop of water on the mirror. It will typically stay in a ball and will not spread out very well. this is an indication of high surface tension. Add a drop of alcohol to the same mirror. It spreads out. an indication of low surface tension. Make a 50/50 solution of alcohol and water. It will spread out on the mirror. Again, i am not disputing your statement of the surfactant, i totally agree. Alcohol though has some surfactant properties. The use of a detergent greatly increases the surfactant properties (compared to alcohol) and also adds a dispersant property that helps lift, solubilize or carry away the gunk. typically alcohol itself does not have that dispersant property that is critical in cleaning a record. Also agree that enzyme also helps digs out the gunk but typically by reacting or combining with the dirt/gunk to help lift it.
sca68
3 posts
 
Hi there Hanaleimike
I had the same problem last week burnt 3 albums
what I changed was stay at 4 inchs away and dont heat up
the soap.
My method is
1/ steam 4 inch away
2/ while steam is still visable apply soap and scrub with cut to 1 inch paint brush
3/ vac away
4/ apply walkers enzine(Does wonders)for 1 minute scrub with vpi brush
5/ vac away
6/ apply alcohol 99% with distilled water 1/4 mix with vpi brush enough just to cover 10 seconds is fine
7/ vac away
8/ distilled water 10 seconds
9/ vac away
I know this looks like alot but this is just for used records (garage sale)makes them almost new .
For new I start from 4 the enzime and work to 9
Out of 1000 records 3 burnt albums is not that not bad.
stltrains
845 posts
 
Ive been steaming for quite a while but still have a lot of lps in my collection that were cleaned by other methods. To my ears steaming adds to a better playing record because its been cleaned to the bottom of the groove causing better contact with the stylus which is the reason for hearing a quite better sounding record, compared to the other non steamed records in my collection. Steaming is more work and time but for me its worth it.
Like mentioned the rinse cycle is IMO most important to get all of the solvent out of the grooves.
To each his own because its the music and how it sounds to our ears that counts.
chatta
314 posts
 
That is a good perspective on steam cleaning. I could see how the records do actually have a more thorough cleaning with that method and therefore will have an improved sound when being played.
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