Hi I just put two of my three extra Rca 12bh7 tubes into the Ming Da Mc-34a amp here at my cottage. Sound good here also, and since i could set the bias to the same 0.43v level I thought ok lets try. I have no idea perhaps bias should be changed(if possible, like here), switching from 12au7 to 12bh7.
Preamp for Aesthetix / Atma-sphere
Hi
I have the Aesthetix Io Eclipse with volume and dual power supplies, Atma-sphere MA-1 monoblocs (140 watts) and Audiokinesis Dream Maker (93 db sensitive) speakers. These are great components. My question is about system synergy, how to make them play together.
I have been running the Io direct to my amps since I first bought the Mk2 version back in 2004. At the time, I had a Krell FPB600, and in that context, it was a blessing, and a great step up from the Krell KAV 250p preamp. I'll never forget my first impression with the Io - it was like going from the wooded hills up into the mountains. There was no going back.
With volume, the Io functions as a preamp. It looks like a preamp. Someone here on A-gon said going direct is best - which I interpreted as: it IS a preamp! So I thought, OK I have a combined phono and preamp - problem fixed. But it wasn't.
From recent testing I have finally become convinced that the Io does benefit from a separarate preamp. Even if clarity and detail is better going direct from the Io to the amps, the punch and "here-ness" of the music is clearly better with a preamp in the chain, at least in my system.
Trouble is, which preamp? I am testing a small solid state Musical Innovation preamp, which helps with the punch but veils the music. An optimal solution might be the Aesthetix Callisto, preferably with dual power - but I don't have the space, and I already have a lot of tubes and tube heat. I have space for one or possibly two boxes.
From what I have heard so far, a solid state might do the job well (in my tube-rich context), however it should not impart any s-state artifacts or reduce the resolution from the Io Eclipse.
The ideal would be to test a few tube and s-state preamps, and then decide. However, this is difficult where I live, so advice is welcome.
My question relates to my own setup of course, but is relevant for everyone with a top phono stage on the one hand and amps on the other. What is best in the middle?
From recent testing I have learned that problems that I thought were related to the speakers, the phono pre, the pickup and so on, were in fact related to the preamp issue. For example, the Dream Makers straight from the Io may sound a bit lazy and washed out in the bass, very clear in mid and treble but not fully embodied. Plugging in the solid state pre, the situation becomes dramatically different, now the speakers are driving, propulsive. Very enjoyable, but some detail is lost and some transistor things added that I don't want.
So I am looking for a solution with most of the plusses, and not much of the minuses. The preamp must be fully balanced with XLR in / out.
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I have the Aesthetix Io Eclipse with volume and dual power supplies, Atma-sphere MA-1 monoblocs (140 watts) and Audiokinesis Dream Maker (93 db sensitive) speakers. These are great components. My question is about system synergy, how to make them play together.
I have been running the Io direct to my amps since I first bought the Mk2 version back in 2004. At the time, I had a Krell FPB600, and in that context, it was a blessing, and a great step up from the Krell KAV 250p preamp. I'll never forget my first impression with the Io - it was like going from the wooded hills up into the mountains. There was no going back.
With volume, the Io functions as a preamp. It looks like a preamp. Someone here on A-gon said going direct is best - which I interpreted as: it IS a preamp! So I thought, OK I have a combined phono and preamp - problem fixed. But it wasn't.
From recent testing I have finally become convinced that the Io does benefit from a separarate preamp. Even if clarity and detail is better going direct from the Io to the amps, the punch and "here-ness" of the music is clearly better with a preamp in the chain, at least in my system.
Trouble is, which preamp? I am testing a small solid state Musical Innovation preamp, which helps with the punch but veils the music. An optimal solution might be the Aesthetix Callisto, preferably with dual power - but I don't have the space, and I already have a lot of tubes and tube heat. I have space for one or possibly two boxes.
From what I have heard so far, a solid state might do the job well (in my tube-rich context), however it should not impart any s-state artifacts or reduce the resolution from the Io Eclipse.
The ideal would be to test a few tube and s-state preamps, and then decide. However, this is difficult where I live, so advice is welcome.
My question relates to my own setup of course, but is relevant for everyone with a top phono stage on the one hand and amps on the other. What is best in the middle?
From recent testing I have learned that problems that I thought were related to the speakers, the phono pre, the pickup and so on, were in fact related to the preamp issue. For example, the Dream Makers straight from the Io may sound a bit lazy and washed out in the bass, very clear in mid and treble but not fully embodied. Plugging in the solid state pre, the situation becomes dramatically different, now the speakers are driving, propulsive. Very enjoyable, but some detail is lost and some transistor things added that I don't want.
So I am looking for a solution with most of the plusses, and not much of the minuses. The preamp must be fully balanced with XLR in / out.
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Showing 13 responses by o_holter
Audiolab - Krell and speaker sensitivity - I dont know. Check it. What I know is, I had 84db sensitive Dynaudio Consequence speakers, hard to drive, and had to go too loud to get the best sound (class A I think, the amp got ver hot). The Stereophile review was clear. You have to get it to run in pure class A, to get the best sound. |
Before we go in a 12bh7 march, perhaps make sure the pre or cd or amp (etc) can take it? Cf warning note from Atmasphere, above. I take the chance, in the Einstein pre and the Ming Da amp, since it sounds good and no ill effects so far. I wonder, even if a 12au7 socket can take a 12bh7 tube, should it be tuned to get the best from this tube. |
Audioquest4life - great, thanks! I can well imagine that the Io sounds superlative into the Octave Jubilee and then into Macintosh 2301. You mention tube experiments - in the Jubilee, or in the Io?'I have generally ended up with Telefunken in the Io although Rca etc can also sound good. Have you tried feet, cables or other tweaks to get the best from the Io? |
Audiolabyrinth - as i understand you are running a Vincent player direct to a recent version Krell 700, to quite sensitive Jbl speakers. Sounds promising and I know that new caps can take 300+ hours break-in time (happened with the Io Eclipse upgrade). So if it was me I would check with Vincent and try a bit tube change anyway, and not be too concerned if the sound was still a bit hard. Give it a chance to mellow. |
An update: Over the past months, partly due to tube advice given in this thread, I have been enjoying my Einstein The Tube Mk2 preamplifier a lot. Or more precisely, I don't feel I have a preamp problem anymore, and don't worry about it. It fills its role fine. It does have a bit of solid state sound I suspect, but I am not much bothered by it, after the NOS tube upgrades (described above), and its assertiveness fits in nicely with the rest of my system and fairly large room. A special treat, for me, is the ability to mix it in optimally. Since I have volume on the Aesthetix Io phono preamp too, I can mix and match. The sound is fatter and more organic with the Io taking most of the amplification load, and leaner and more precise with the Einstein taking most. A nice dialogue indeed. I like to have the Io volume at three o'clock and the Einstein at twelve or one o'clock, to get the best sound. This preamp is certainly delivering, and even if it was expensive, I got it more reasonably second hand, and am glad I bought it. |
Hello @ketran Congratulations with the Einstein, I hope it works out for you. Mine is still doing well. The main tweaks I’ve done: 1 - changing the 12au7 tube in the middle, to NOS. First, a CBS Hytron, which was a clear improvement, and then to a RCA 12bh7, which was even better. I have not tried Brimar. I tried some Siemens / Halske but the difference was not profound. 2 - Changing the power cord from stock to a Wywires Juice 2. A bit better. I had to take the flat plug (that goes to the bottom of the E) off the stock cable, and screw it on the Juice. I have not bothered with more power cable testing. 3 - Changing my "use regime" - I now avoid having the E on, unless I actually use it. It developed problems a year or so ago, but luckily a local repair man near Oslo was able to fix it. He changed several resistors / caps that were showing signs of age / heat. Volker at Einstein was helpful, via email. It now runs fine. What are the components you use with the preamp?
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