All Travels Begin With A First Step :
Yesterday , the Maplenoll began its journey back to a box of parts. This is not the first time that I disassembled the Maplenoll. The change here is to completely break apart the 'Noll ... part by part, sub-assembly to its components that are to be examined , cleaned , renewed or replaced. This is a top down revision that I believe will substancially upgrade this table into a direction with the finest air bearing tables .
My first objectives were the Tone-Arm Lift , the Air Bearing Tube & Platter in that order.
The Tone-Arm Lift has never seemed to move smoothly , now I understand the reason; the block body was cut too wide obscuring the need for a clip to secure the stainless steel rod offset into the lifter. Without the clip , the rod had too much play shifting ever so little as rotated stressing the cantilever & stylas as they entered into the LP grove. I bought the Noll from Fred Kaplan , TAS reviewer. I don't think he ever understood why the cartridge suspensions were trashing out on a couple of his Hi-priced carts. Oh, Fred, thanks for the AQ 7000 after a redo it works great.
Following a lot of sanding , miking and plain grunt work, the lift moves perfectly w/ no slop. Another discovery, sanding the block to be a dense materal that's rock hard ,grey in color and quite dead to a knuckel rap . It appears to be a plastic resin of some sort. Since Bob D. was also a weapons designer who knows -- Maybe surplus stock from other project? Well, only Bob or LLoyd know and they arn't a part of this thread (yet). Next it was off to Home Depot for Rust-Oleum "Professional" Primer. Its as good as they note on the can, highly recommended.
The Air Bearing Tube :
After all the head work I did on this one the answer was so simple; Just pop the plug on one side & fill the inner space with Dap Tex-Pluse , a window & door foam sealant. Hi-Tect foam that expands slowly allowing for the tubes re-capping. The end result ? As lightweight as before & no ringing . Within hours that tube was as dead to a rap as I have experienced. Now for the Big Momma ...
The lead Platter : This was to be a 600 grit work-over , as I had done before but my inner sprit got caught up in the moment: Starting back side to front , grunt work began safety first its Lead , respirator , gloves & glasses on so the sanding began -- for hours . I found that paint covered hundreds of casting inperfections that eventually disapeared as I sanded /to polished the back to a satin finish. The old addage " painters hide the mistakes of carpenters " applied here. I removed almost all gouges, imperfections and casting lines, not to mention a myrad of lathe marks. A good dusting and then several coats of primer that leveled into imperfections so small you needed a mag glasses to see them. The gang at Rust-Oleum knows what they are doing. Enought daylight for clean-up. On to another day. |
Scott Leventhal's Pump Suggestions in no particular order :
www.silentaircompressor.com see Super Silent Pump DR-500; sale 4620 + S/H, reg. $ 900.
Thomas Industries Model 900-13-59E @ Granger Industral Supply
Wisa Rotary Pump & other aq. pumps starting @ $400 & up.
A note from Audio Asylum @ 1/3 HP Technmseh Refrige Pump
Scott also included some other links that were broken.
For my money the DR-500 is the one I intend to use, should the SQ go belly up. |
Back to the Flip Side: I changed my opinion and repainted the back of the table. My reasoning was not soley for appearances . On reflection, I recalled factory/military applications when paint is applied as a deadner to "clamp-down" on vibes. Very 1920'ish. Following a good cleaning , lite sanding and lots of taping I applied a quick-dry black gloss with a hard finish. Nice uniform look and with some vibe/pulse deadening. I took a pic of the completed work I will post as soon as I learn the process. Homework never ends. |
The Maplenoll is in baggies and a box. Anyone even can do the break-down. "For those who wait all will be revealed" jumps into mind. To Bob D. "I get it" , to Lloyd W. thanks for your interviews, letters and vantage point.
The grunt work ; sanding, polishing ,painting and quieting , nothing that can't be accomplished by anybody who can turn a screw.. The secret ? Just a little Dab will do.
Once dismanteled its easy to see the the spots that need attention ; as the days go bye I see the ease of this project.
FYI: From the back-side you clearly see that the inner-body of the table is constructed of MDF and 2 lead centerplates, and about a dozen sheet metal-type screws. Friends thats it besides the holes and cut-outs. Oh, the rubber parts: They are cracked , brittle, broken and dry. The years have taken a toll on the rubber ,as well as, the washers , screws, nuts and bolts. No Problem, everything is available @ The Home Depot.
Now back to work ... Ah just Kidding Its the 4th of July. How about a burger and a Bud ? All the best to America. |
"Any one can even do the break-down ... Add 1 Hon front or back , now that's old town Baltimore . |
Piedpiper: I do. The corian encases a core of MDF and 2 lead center sheets . It certianly looks pur-dee and must sound better than the Reference stock.
For what its worth Bob D. said the Kaplan Table(the one I started with) was equal to all other Maplenolls.
Personally, I doubt the stock 'Noll was equal but that's what the man once said in a phone conversation. With all the improvements made to the base , I reserve judgement on best, better and da-bestest for later. Enjoy the moment. |
Readers :A Couple of quick impressions. Word/Mind sketchbooks in no particular order;
The Electrical Harness : Well made hardware with a black cap , hurst motor , clean solder joints and garden variety line cord. Removed intact. To be cleaned, photographed and stored with all other parts removed from the Maplenoll.
Air Manifold Case : A Two'ish pound of finely machined Alum-type stock encasing the famed Dr. Lew Eckhart tone-arm air manifold made of the finest SS money can buy . The case only needs cosmetic work and painting. Note: I shot 100% I/O alcohol thru the tone-arm bearing not one drop of oil. The fact the tone-arm bearing is clean affirms the re-design of the air control system and the home-made air scrubbers. Same is true of the Table's Air Bearings.
The S/S circular , short-pipe supports for the tone-arm manifold were turned by a machinest to a hand-burnished satin finish. Once lightly steel wooled , beautiful look much better than wood and stronger. Supports filled with Roma Plastlinia #2 some of the finest professional modeling clay made w/ a history to the 12th Century. Perfect filler/dampener , will never harden , crust or deteriorate. More on Roma later. To be finished off with thin rubber washers before re-install. Must have cost real money to manufacture.
The Lead Platter: A grunt work project. Sanded, polished & primed, awaiting final paint application. 50lb-ish, too much to lug around. Not: Helpers required to move safetly.
Air Bearing tube, arm lift and tone-arm parts. All cleaned foam filled or adjusted and complete.
The Maplenoll Air Bearing : A thing of beauty. Casted in a foundary , hand machined and balanced. They are 8" in diameter , Lloyd Walker made his 11" in size. Now, I understand why.
The bearings are industral art . Since they started life in a foundary they actually ring like a bell of sorts. That my friend that is the secret to the music. I believe both top and bottom bearings are "tuned ". The ring has to much sustain for just an accident. I played guitar before the car accident, I know pitch . Using a tuning fork or a automated tuner it becomes apparent why these bearings ring with purpose. The secret to the table is to damp the bearings w/o destroying their "life". Now that I know what the "key" is harmonically" , tuning down is not that difficult. Kinda like tuning a guitar to the key of C or D Major. Note: The bearing base has three off-set threaded rods that act as taines ie. vibration drains , draining off unwanted pulsations thru the base and into a rubber bushing. The bushing is not any run of the mill bushing but a Ford shock absorber cap specifically designed to kill vibration.
Must have cost Mr.Ford millions to design over the past century .Smart move Bob D. applying automotive tectnology. Ford spent millions and I bought my bushing replacements for a little over $6.00. Thanks Bob, thanks Mr. Ford but most of all thanks to Paul @ PEP Boys who has a PHD in communications/ bushing knowledge. Go Army, go Paul ... Your the man.
The Back-Side of the Table:
A maze of cut-outs and holes. All are filled with Roma , threaded for use including the electrical box & motor mounting holes(both filled w/Roma). Note: Roma recommends shellacing any surface to which the clay is to be applied. Since Bob D. painted the back, black no need for shellac. Note: Helpers required to move safetly.
Everything I have done can be reversed just as quickly as pluged. All exposed electrical holes finished wooden plugs of various sizes for visual appeal. Much more to come. |
Now for the Flip Side:
Turning over the 'Noll table top-side uprevealed a different bag of worms -- challeges. Imagine a large Q cut-out 1" deep, thats what the top looks like naked an'all. The tail of the Q is the former cut-out for the top-side of the motor mount a slightly disoriented lead paramid with the top lopped off. The Hurst was seated in that flip, then the unit was screwed into the lead base . The off-set "O" is home to the bearings with a 1/2" moat surrounding the plates. I re-screwed the lead motor mount plate back into the flip coating it and the flip with a goodly amount of Roma, covering the "moat" with a thin coating of Roma. Just grunt work anybody can do. I was grunting when I noticed the lead base had buckeled over the years, a slightly convex affair. No problem a few taps of a rubber malot gently flatened the lead base. More on that later. Then a fopa on my part ; I dropped the tone-arm manifold onto a carpet. The manifold was intact but the plastic air inlet snapped off. No crisis but a sign I was tired ... Sleepy Time. |
Work, Work and Work Some More :
The Top-side "Q" has been lightly covered with Roma, the beer belly on the lead floor where the bottom half of the bearing sits was slightly pounded so the center of the bearing plate sits on a flatish lead center and the wide, flat portion of the bearing "floats". The bearing got a new center pin , the off-set air inlet got a new air tube repositioned , damped to the metal tube that ultimately attaches the air control system to the turntable base. The tines and bushings are in place . More later...Note: The Roma can be easily cleaned with I/O alcohol. |
Oilmanmojo: Sorry I don't ,a real kick in the keester . I just bought a digital camera that I have yet to operate. Before the final set-up a bud is to take a few disassembled Pic's to fill in the blanks. This is a huge amount of work. I think I have 40 hrs.+ more. Most is grunt work , real time consuming. I only hope the effort is worth it. The interesting matter for me is that I believe I correctly understand how these tables actually operate. Next up, the tone-arm. |
Readers: I broke a M10-1.0 fine thread, 1/8" plastic air barb ; no one near me has a replacement. Any suggestions on where to find one? Thanks. |
Thanks for the e/m an order went out to Masters-McCarr tonight. |
Everywhere I turn its, Oil, Oil and Troughs :
Before the Tone-Arm , a little redo of the oil trought. Mine must have been made early on , very little to adjust unless its off the table. I have a few dremel inspired ideas. Tomorrow its back to the Heart Institute . C Ya , the sooner the better ... |
Never touch a dremel ... More work ... Steel wool makes a lot disappear ... Mo better.
Now to Put Humpty Dumpty Back Together Again.
Before any sub unit can be reassembled they all need some mild sanding & paint work. Nothing anybody can't complete. Just a time in = rewards later job. What is apparent (no offense B.D.) much of the 'Noll finishing work was sloppy, period. Hundreds of minor imperfections, sometimes it seems per sq. inch. Well, 97% is history and the other 3% ? Thats what paint is for ( a little cheat in me). The paint scheme is going to be calmer , light colors for the manifold housing , softer blacks for the platter , arm-lift unit and trough. Some parts of the tone-arm (counter-weight "L") are to be repainted a soft black. The VTA adjuster will be either the same color as the manifold or soft black. I may reconsider the platter and hand paint in a epoxy brite black . Today, the Rx'es drew 18 large vials of Mr. Me's red-stuff. Gosh, that a great way to start the day... At least I have today :) :) |
And on the 7th Day ...
More special appearances at the Heart Institute. As I sat contently puttering with a couple of parts associated with the Oil Trough , all hell broke loose -- Heart Attack Day -- 8 men and 3 women were wheeled by breathless techs all for imaging some having more than one test. The patients were all so upset; the men had tears in their eyes (family loss fear) , the women seemed more resigned to death. I couldn't stand it. Here I am for a simple Holter Test , here they are fighting for their lives . As a Nurse Janet called me to be hooked up , inner emotions (don't ask why) called out for me to quell the emotional agony / pain I was witnessing. As I stood to walk to the Prep Room , I said in a calm clear voice " I know what's going on in your mind ... listen to me ... What is happening to you has happened to me twice". They transfixed on me as I looked each patient in the eye saying "Nobody is going to die , not today , the staff is going to keep you alive ... I mean it ... No deaths, not today ". Nurse Janet was stunned as was everybody in ear shot. The patients all gave me a smile & some a feble "thumbs-up". Nurse Janet who is in her 70's +++ closed the Prep Door and said that moment was inspiring thanking me for the effort. In 20 minutes the Holter was set-up and away I went.
So what's this have to do with the 'Noll ? I lost the trough part ... No good deed goes goes rewarded ... I'll make the lost part out of Oak or better ...
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Table Udate: The tables' sub-unit(s) painting has not gone without challenges. Really, I don't think Bob's ever cared about scratch an dent control. Sand any surface, another "Bob" imperfection rises to make your stomache turn. Far too many hours attempting to refirb thru a haze of Bob, Bob and more Bob. The platter was/is the #1 challenge : I'm overtaking the 3 Bob's but what a time muncher. Had I known what I know now I'm not sure I would have invested so much time an effort. Ah, hell its worth the effort. The most interesting find ? Tuneable bearings , a piece of cake to adjust. Another, the value of Roma Plastena (clay)in this project can not be under estimated. Lastly, since this plinth isn't the sealed type, its very adjustable in terms of playabilty/dampting. While Ari will never be a LLoyd, I am inspired by his work. My feeling is that this Ari is going to be a very interesting listening experience. Now back to work. |
Know When To ...
Ok, I've had it. 97% isn't good enought for me on the painting. I contacted Robb @ Fine Finishes , 3300 Emmorton Rd, Abingdon, MD, 21009 ,P/N 443-484-2039 and he has accepted the job. All TT painting is in his hands. Robb is a one-of-a-kind-person , a finisher to perfection. I believe he is a real "go-to guy" for plinths and such. More on that and such more later. |
Who's On Our Side ?
A couple of posts ago I mentioned I broke the air barb to the tone-arm manifold and that I was going to contact McMaster-Carr for a replacement. That's what I did only to receive the wrong part. I contacted MC and was assured they could assist . The parts were returned for credit and upon MC's instructions I enclosd the broken part for replacement. Nearly 2 weeks goes by no phone calls , no emails , no nutt'in. So I recalled them , spoke to a customer rep who later recalled me. Despite all the assurances of assistence none was forthcomning. Instead, I get a very calm professional voice telling me McMaster-Carr "eye-balled" the part , the tech could not recall anything like it in stock, dumping the part back to me no explanation via snail mail. Despite all the bull crap about lending a helping hand to the comsumer all I got was a polite foot up my a--. The McMaster-Carr rep suggested that I go back to square one look into their online parts and locate it myself ! And with a sweet kiss-off McMaster-Carr just brushed me aside. Something to remember for future reference. McMaster-Carr assured me of help and then kicked me in the arse. For sure in the world of big business I'm a nobody but I represent a lot of regular folks that from time to time need a tad of help. Remember my experience the next time you hear of a buy-out of another US company. Most likely arrogance started the demise, forgetting the "little guy" is the backbone of business. Enought for now. My search for that part continues... |
Award of Merit : McMaster-Carr returned my broken part with a one line hand written notice "returned" bla, bla. Thanks for ALL your help. You know how to keep da US Of A on Top! Next UP,
"Gong On Down the Line" ..... The Return of Ari :
As I attempt to source an air barb, Robb of Fine Finishes telephoned . He said he's removing all(ie, my crappy)spray paint(far too soft a finish in his opinion) and is duplicating the color palette in lacquer. Robb will give the entire project a profession touch. Robb is to apply lacquer via a spray booth, to be followed by coats of clear coat that is to be hand-buffed between coats . The platter is to be finished in a gloss black, all other top parts in mauve(ish) color paint . The Counterweight Arm, Bearing Spindel and Tone-Arm are to stay anodized black ; the VTA adjust & "L" bracket to the counterweight in mauve(ish) , the VTA adjust crew in stainless: A custom made part that allows more refinement to adjusting the VTA. All unused openings on the table top & sides are to be filled with curved-top red-oak plugs : The off-sided triangle cut-out , now filled filled with Roma , once housed the Hurst motor. That opening is to be coverered with red-oak trim to be attached using small brass screws set into the Roma underneath. Counterweights are to be solid brass (when sourced).
The TT Motor is to sit on a red-oak platform that affixes off-angle to Ari's right front corner. The platform looks like an inverted "Z" is attached via extending the red-oak plank of the "Z" that covers the existing right front opening the adjusting spike once used. Single sided 3M absorber tape affixed to the oak acts as a interface between the "Z" and the table side to dampened any platform vibes. The whole sub-unit is affixed via a brass bolt & washer, thru a hole drilled into the "Z" that will axcess to re-use the adjuster hole to affix the sub-unit to the Ari's plinth.
All orgininal screws & supports are to be reused. A toothpick is to apply Permatex , 83H , # 80057, Super "300", gasket sealant as a dampner to threaded parts. Far more effective that super-glue and far less hassel when time to be removed. Just a dab will do ya.
Dare I mention this ? I might consider a lacquer clear mixed with ? color sprayed to be over the white plastic plinth(maybe).
I will begin to dampen some interfaces where ,in my opinion, un- wanted vibration(s)could/do occurr. Currently, I am testing materals. Should any reader have auditioned/owned a Beard Amp than you recall that most unique of audio voicing. Partly, that signature audio palette is the result of paper dampters placed on/under certian boards to dampen micro-vibrations. That practice is not lost on me and I will attempt to duplicate that idea via the table's tone/adjust as to some parts/places I choose for that select application.
So far, besides paint, everything I have done can be reversed ,as in removed, without damage to the table.
More areas to be addressed. The RCA jack opening is no longer in use now that I now run 32 Ga. Cardas TT wire from the phono pins to the Pre-Amp (27"). This opening is to be covered/shielded via stainless steel tape ,as will be the back of the RCA/Terminal plate to deter RFI. The roof of the RCA opening has already been dampened with Roma. While I await Pidepiper's assistance , several mods for the stock 7" tone-arm. Lots mo' later. |
Yours truly dropped the oil trough on a cement floor, cracked the paint work. Another stop @ Fine Finishes for a redo and some oak work and pegs to fill the open holes left when the electronics were removed. In the works, a brass plate same size as the base plate, inscribed ARIADNE REFERENCE , Serial NO. 1800, to be placed on front of the Air Manifold. I will then post several shots of the Table , awaiting Piedpipers assistence.
We are all in for a treat, this Table looks sweet. I hope it surprises me in terms of performace. |
RCA/Terminal Cover : The phono/tone-arm harness stretches from the phono clips to the RCA's that plug into the Pre-Amp(27").
Self-adhesive felt pads were holed & afixed over soft rubber grommets that were inserted into the openings that the RCA's occupied in the plastic cover. The phono-wires travel thru that opening encased in a carbon fiber jacket. I feel the felt pads act to "absorb" micro vibrations that may run from the P/A back to the tone-arm,: E Lumley's observations on electrical eddies traveling from the pump into the 'Noll may also apply here. Self-adhesive S/S shielding was lined into the back-space to block RFI.
I must take some pic's before re-assembly to doctument all I have been describing. |
Oilmanmojo: Several shots of the continuing modification of the turntable base were made today. When I understand the process of downloading , those pic's and more will be posted.
The turntable base was detailed , scraping excess Roma & covering all the clay on the back-side with Scotch Brand Blue Painters Tape. Worked like a charm. I believe I shall leave it "as is" with no further painting . On the top-side,the lower bearing housing was seated with a interface between it and the Roma. I carefully & lightly tightened bushings w/washers to the bearing plate taines. According to what I have read this is a bit trickey to advoid the plate from going out of round . So far so good. And again, nothing I did can not be revised or reversed. |
Olimanmojo: Thanks for any help you and the guru's can provide.
Stringeen : You are spot-on about mortite. It is for that reason and others I applied Roma professional modeling clay #2 that never drys out the way mortite does. I happen to have had two , 2 lb. bricks about 10-15 years old that were as "fresh" when opened as when I bought them. Thanks for your concern. |
Pidepiper: Your view is well expressed. Thanks, I too have the those concerns and perhaps I have misused the term dampening. What I have been attempting is to eliminate "ringing" and hollowness that I have discovered in the turntable base. I also believe I am toneing down micro-air pulsations. Hopefully, the photo's will affirm that.
The Roma issue is well expressed. For the past several days I scraped the Roma on the topside in that portion of the "Q" (the "O") so that it only covers the lead by a "thumb nail" of thickness. Surprizingly, I found on the inside of the base the lead had puffed out and making no contact with the other base materals. The air space did not appear intentional, a manufacturing error or parts seperating over time. That has been corrected.
The tail of the "Q" had been of concern to Fred Kaplan. He made no mention of it in the review ,but privately, at the time of sale, he said it was a source of concern that he believed to have been corrected by un-capping & leaving the area exposed. As posted , that was where a circular hole was drilled thru the table to house the motor. That area has been filled , we will learn later if that's a good idea.
I have been examining a Raven attempting to draw out an idea or so. What I hope is news is that floating the top bearing plate over a quiet(er) bottom plate should improve the over-all sonics, only time will tell. Before the bottom plate sat squarely on top of that lead bubble and the edge clanged , not the sweet bell sound of the top plate. My review of the underside bushings causes me to feel these should be replaced by anyone owning a similar 'Noll. Of course, the proof is in the sonics and we are not close to that. Soundsmith returned my cart with a tad of correction ,no new stylas , that's reserved for the AQ 7000 later on.
This project is more involved than I presumed in the beginning. I think the knowledge aquired is worth the effort. Piedpiper, thanks for your views. Since this project is on-going its perfectly reasonable to assume modifications to the Roma. |
What happen to the Back-Side (short version):
The flip-side of the 'noll table was stripped of the motor , electrical blocks & wires . Air connections were made as short as deemed reasonable, clamped & dampened. Adjustment valves removed. Guidance was derived from re-reads of reviews and interviews ;their essence emphasized controling mechanical/air pulsations inside the 'Nolls base.
The places filled with Roma were choosen by the use of a tuning fork & scope and just plain eyeballing. I choose to fill the spaces approx. 80-85% leaving either leaving smooth or convex clay bottoms , some with slight air spaces. Small divots and cut-outs were filled in the same manner. All were blue taped ; replacement bushings, heavy duty washers, new center pin were installed and a lite interface between the botton bearing plate and a gentle tightening.
The back was re-painted a hard shell gloss black , the white plastic side pannels lightly sanded to remove manufacturing imperfections where they frame the bottom-side of the turntable's base. Soon Robb will re-finish the top-side parts. |
Odd 'an Ends: Spoke to Robb of "Fine Finishes". Robb's begun working on a time consuming project that's delaying the repaint of the TT parts for weeks. I've nixed the idea of painting the white, plastic base. I've concluded a paint/color tinted clear coat finish just can not stand up to the hands-on effort it takes to relocate this mug. I'm going to clean the white, plastic finish with wet finishing paper , cleaners & polishes then buff to a satin-shine.
The phono wiring is to be re-inspected and re-installed in the tonearm tube. The tonearm tube measures 6" with about another 1" for the head shell unit. The 7" tonearm tube and head shell may extend another 1/4" to 3/8" (or less) for phono cartridge adjustment. I think the effective mass is about 11.5 , maybe slightly less.
A couple stops @ Home Depot's resulted in sourcing short, red oak semi-finished plinths (approx.8'Lx3"Wx1"H) to construct the reverse "Z" for seating the TT motor. More on the way... |
Readers: I just want to mention that I fully understand this project is in uncharted waters. I appreciate no one has gone before me ( at least in the published media) and that much of what I'm attempting hasn't yet been doctumented much less attempted. This is an exciting challenge. I'm disappointed that I failed to shoot digital pic's sooner. In retrospect, I should have doctumented every step but that's not the case. Nevertheless, what I have learned is more than enought to satsify my desire to understand the workings of this table. I know that Bob D. is reading my comments but for reasons known only to him he answers in silence. There is no good reason this beauty can not compete with the $$$$$$ tables. Nothing is certian but I am confident I'm on the correct course. And if not nothing I have done can't be corrected or adjusted. That's where I depend on those few who have the passion to keep me alert , even if I don't like it. I depend on your insite to help even if the "blind are leading the blind". Thanks for the private emails and keep me on my best. |
Oilmanmojo : Thanks. As you can see I broke down the 'Noll Table as far a possible.
Oilman , I suggest that our tables can be significantly improved with modest effort. For instance, take note of the air manifold supports I filled w/ Roma and the replacement rubber bushings On the flip side of the table. The bushings I removed were cracked and brittle. I have located several acceptable subitutes in Auto Parts Stores in my area, "generics" costing a few bucks each including hardware. Please note that a extremely thin coating of Roma was embeded into the holes that bolts travel thru the table to reduce "noise" . As one can view I had a significant "flip" opening where the motor had been mounted that has also been filled with Roma.
For now I am going to reuse all the tonearm parts & the VTA block. I intend to follow your suite after I get a handel on the changes made and how the table "sounds". |
Jdubs: Have you ever had this table operational and if so than am I incorrect in the assumption the 'Noll needs a air-control-system ? Do you actually possess a super quiet pump ( Akin to a large black pump w/ 3 other smaller, plastic tanks) or perhaps a lessor pump that Maplenoll unfortunately sold to the public? Thanks , Good looking Table ! |
Oilmanmojo: I beleve the air barbs at the suggested site are brass not plastic. I'm hopeing to replace with plastic in light of the problems encountered with building the Air Control System.
I have a 45-50 Lb. platter that underwent considerable sanding to remove manufacturing defects. I think its less than the 50lb mark. I would suggest that you not move to a heaver platter until I have compteted the Ari . I believe that weight is only one of several issues under investigation. Keep in mind the adjustments that must be made should you move to a higher weight(taller in height) platter. I know you are a smart fellow , I only mean to keep you informed of possible mods should you change platter.
Have you viewed the 2 new pic's ? I believe they demostrate how far I have gone to remake the table. |
Q : Where do we source 90 LB. lead platters ? If my memory is correct , the last one I recall sold for $1,000 on AG several years ago. They are rare byrds ... |
Readers : This project has taken on many facets that I did not appreciate in the beginning. This is a journey not just a destination. Its my intention to create new bounds for the 'Nolls. Ideas that transend the moment or money. But, I have learned this project can not exist in a vaccume. Today, I requested assistance from Piedpiper , an expert in outboard motors ,to assist me & perhaps create other optons in arm tubes. I hope he can assist. |
Piedpiper: An alternate might be stacking of Rega-type platters with the lead unit(s) ?? Or, if Bob Dilger would come forward , he may have unused foundary casts in need of turning. From observation I believe my lead platter was a foundary cast , no small feat , a challenge to reproduce. |
Added photo of completed flip side (for now). |
That's a good question. I have no recommendation one way or another. I suspect the rim rider will not be acceptable for any of the earlier TT without modification, & that may apply to later models. Perhaps Chris could view the photo's on this site and the 'noll mod and make a judgement. If that's not enought, Chris may directly contact me since I am rebuilding a Ari, having 18 plus years of experience with the Tables. |
Further observation : For those interested in the Signature Table , just a reminder the table does not appear to have a complete air control system (DIY $200-$300 US), that's in-addition to the need for a silent air pump. Also, the pictures do not appear to show all parts for the oil bath unit, better ask about that. Note: The air bearing plates are identical to those in all 'Nolls including mine. All the best. |
Readers: Following weeks of fruitless searching , I sourced a plastic air barb @ Grangers that may fit the manifold. The barb stem is slightly larger ; according to the staff , they had nothing elese smaller. With a little experimentation & mod'ing it could do. Friends , please accept this piece of advice. Should you own a early Maplenoll Ariadne and should decide to do a break-down, as I have, remove the plastic air barb from the Bearing Manifold ASAP, securing it in a safe place. All the best. |
Robb of "Fine Finishes" phoned leaving a message the 'Noll parts are finished. More later. |
The 'Noll parts are back from "Fine Finishes", Robb did an outstanding job. When the weather improves I want to take several frames of Robbs work & the disassembled Ari posting them(soon) . I intend to polish the plastic & painted parts, reinspecting every part and sub-unit before putting the record player back together. Then, the hard work begins . |
Every 'Noll part has under gone re-inspection, cleaning & polishing. The painting work of "Fine Finishes" is truly dazzeling. Todate, I'm re-assembeling the table for now (less-tonearm) until I merge the Music Hall stand alone Turntable Motor Unit and the Table. The Platter looks stunning, but what is more important, Robb took it upon himself to flywheel balance the platter. It runs perfectly round.
Earlier, I "eyeballed" placement of the motor unit from pic's on AG ,I'm close ; only a "fraction" or so adjustment to equall the height of the Table , Motor Unit w/ VPI controller before speed tests.
My A+ gear is in Eric's shop for inspection and A/C balance . Tube replacement for the SP-10 & perhaps the input tubles for the S.O.B's. The 6550A are robust and are not up for replacement. My Audio room is up for a revamp. Lots going on to complement the 'Noll. Then picture time of the completed project. I will post the "Fine Finishes" work by Robb Shortly. |
Readers:FYI, A Ari'Noll is up for sale on AG, # 1225807894, Ontaro, CA., $2,400 plus shipping. |
FYI : I'm awaiting on Piedpiper to have some free time to construct the motor mount. For now, my Rig is down . All tube gear and some digital are at Eric Falkehan's shop for inspection and repair should that be required. This is preventive in nature. While all else is out of the house some changes are being worked out for the listening room.
A couple of weeks ago I purchased a pair of Allen Organ Amps-75A's. Soon they will undergo a rebab/mod for home use. Despite the hard industral look , their articulation is shocking. Perhaps one of the greatest amps ever made , provided you know what your doing in the change-over. |
Piedpiper: A rim drive ? Now, that's interesting / exciting. I'm looking forward to whatever you discover in rim drives & motor mounts. |
FYI: I located a soft iron motor mount in Hong Kong that "may" work with the 'Noll. It weights 5 lbs. before lead weights and could work with Pipedpipers mods. I requested information regarding sizeing and other "Q's". |
FYI : I have been corresponding with the motor housing source in Hong Kong , and between Piedpiper & I . After, many weeks of questioning , it does appear that we may have a go with the soft motor mount. More soon. |
Readers : I am re-assembling the Ari-Noll. The outboard motor will come later as will a different tonearm. I have reopened some cut-outs to accept the motor & electrical components. Sota commerical vibration/insulation strips surround the motor dampening it down tobe near inaudable. All the rubber including the gromets have been re-placed a second time with a softer rubber compound. The tonearm has been re-wired with Cardas 33 ga. Next, I will re-tube , attach the PSI gages and attach the Air Control System that has been sucessfully tested to 50 PSI , 4/5 PSI to the platter, the remaining to the air bearing for the tonearm. Much to do before play time. |
Tom, I look forward to your future posts. Glad to know the teflon pin works so well; your idea of multiable ports does appear to resolve many issues. |
Oilmanmojo: Sorry to take so long to reply. My 'Noll is near completion . Piedpiper and I have discussed options on a custom motor mount build .
A learning curve bump. I did purchase a complete outboard motor unit in excellent condition only to learn:
1. Size does matter . Its a challenge if the motor unit is not exactly the right height via the platter height for a belt to wrap around the platter, or to utilize in the space between the top plate bearing & bottom of the platter for belt placement. And,that's besides determining between a pre-made or home-made type belt & pully.
2. Stability is dependent on motor's ability to spin that lead slug ; unfortunately , the outboard motor unit I purchased could not "pull" that much weight. There's a reason the hurst motor was used.
Oilman, I did make an effort to have a ceramic center pin made, only to find no one interested in developing them for such a small market. I do have a few plastic center pins made years ago; one could serve as a template or a replacement. That center pin is the weakest part of our tables. Feel free to e/m or call , as you choose. |
Oilmanmojo : What you have shaired is quite exciting news.
The platter and the air bearing plates I devoted much time and effort. A few ideas I wish to pass on:
My platter's underside, showed signs of wear perhaps a result of gravity's "pull" loaping the edges and creating wear rings where the top plate rested.. The bearings are undersized to support large slugs of lead for decades.I relate(from observation) the top bearing plate's size (or lack thereof) allows some of the underside of the lead platter to be unsupported creating potental stress points where gravity's pull ,over time, could affect the trueness of the platter. Most of these all-lead platters have been a top undersized air bearing plates for 20-25 years, perhaps, enought time for gravity to do its job. Storage of the platter ,other than on its flat sides, could also affect its trueness.
Lead is a soft metal that is not as stable as say steel. Heavy casted lead parts do deform over time no matter what one does. Its size, weight, design & fuction all relate to lead's ability to hold onto its casted shape as I was to learn.
During my rebuild process, I learned that the platter did have casting defects (covered over by thick black paint-presume lead based paint) that were only resolved by spin balancing ,on a lathe, "trueing", out foundary defects with hand sanding and a lot of care. Quite a messy job that I did outsource to a professional. The platter now spins true without "wavey-ness" as it revolves.
Lloyd Walker conversted years ago , that the 'Nolls air bearing plates are "hardened" cautioning me they might shatter should they be afixed to a high-speed lathe for truing, or crack if harshly handeled/sanded. Sometime later, a dealer emailed that he purchased a 'Noll damaged in transit. He brought the parts , taking them to a machine shop for repair. He wrote the shop attempted to true the plates ,cracking them in the process.
Oilman, just passing this along for whatever value it may hold for your rebuild.
I am looking forward to your design of a outboard motor unit. Perhaps we can all benefit from your work. |
Oilmanmojo , I have been reading your Apollo adventure with great interest. I have a few suggestions for your consideration ; in no particular order :
1. Clean the air manifold: Removing the manifold and cleaning the airbearing with a oil removing solution does wonders for air flow and arm stabitily.Clean the plith while your at it.
2. Do not underestimate the effect of filling the spindle tube with a "light" dampter. I used a Home Depot product that is sold to fill open spaces around windows. Very easy to apply & interms of dampting scores a 3-4 out out of 10 , an excellent way to improve the spindle w/o excessive dampting & weight.
3. Before re-assembly,lightly spray & polish parts, such as, the spindle, air manifold's inside air bearing ; the inside of top / bottom air bearing plates with Eagle 1 Spray Detailer ; its available almost anywhere auto parts are sold. The result has to be experienced to be believed: All air bearing parts operate so quitely , arm stability is improved.
4. A light damping the bottom of air bearing plate's underside & replacing worn or hardened rubber , returns the pliths performace to like-new or better. You are also assured the bottom bearing is flat ,secure & will not excessively "ring". I feel the top plate must revolve on a "lightly" dampened lower plate to bring out that last breath of air in certian recordings. "Light" is all you need. Again, this has to be experienced to appreciate the difference.
5. Test the platter & air bearing plates for "trueness" before going any further with truing/sanding the platter to assure neither is so out of round the repair may be out of reach.
6. When replacing the center pin use a soft wooden dowel to push the old pin. Then, gently tap in the new pin to seat slightly higher than where the former pin rested. Next, put the top plate into the new center pin , gently push down,by hand, onto the top plate to "seat" the center pin. I have learned that my failure to seat the center pin as outlined can result in "air swoosh". Only that gentle push by hand seats the pin.
Wishing you grest sucess. |
