2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by kren0006

kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Oops, okay I got that wrong.  My apologies.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 

Of course every dac has an analog output stage! By definition (digital-to-analog), duh. And yes that is an important part in regards to quality of the dac.

But that’s not what we are talking about. We are talking about whether it is better to control volume changes with dac versus preamp.

It is well known that it is the volume control of the dac that is the most difficult to get right, and inevitably will be inferior to the volume controls in the preamps that WC uses. That inferior volume control of the dac is bypassed when a preamp is used, at least with quality dacs, and that is what we were referring to (of course if one chooses to use any dac to feed a line stage preamp it is necessary to utilize the analog output stage of the dac because, well, that’s how you get an analog input for the preamp after all)

 

And again, the reason I’m harping on this is because WC has made abundantly clear at least 20 times in this thread based on his actual experience listening to this stuff that a preamp is always better yet Viber continues to not respect WC and tell him he’s wrong about that. That’s disrespectful. Viber says I don’t respect him, but it’s he that doesn’t respect WC

kren0006
1,859 posts
 
+1 speedbump 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
+1 thezaks
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Let’s not extrapolate. WC has said the $140k Focal has a better top end than the $60k Alexia 2. Why is that surprising?

When WC had the Sasha DAW and the Focal Scala of about the same price in his room at the same time, he virtually never listened to the Focal (except for a brief period right before it was sold), and the Focal was gone before we knew it, while the Sasha DAW remained for a longer time than any speaker in the last year.

Stick to the facts of the thread everyone.  Don't project or attempt to rewrite history.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I also am interested the preamp findings. WC, did these findings surprise you re Gryphon and Boulder, as far as their general sonic characteristics?  Or did it play out the way you expected it to?
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
For the Wilson bashers, pay attention to how long things remain in the room, independent of the initial plaudits.

That is the true barometer.

DAWs were at least 6 months. Alexia 2 at least 2-3 months or so recently (just estimating here based on recollection) and Alexia 1 for a good bit of time before the DAWs. Nearly a year straight of having a Wilson Audio speaker in the room as the trajectory of the system scaled upward.  And VERY importantly, each time a Wilson was replaced (current $140k Focal experiment pending, (or is it?)), the replacement had a very short shelf life.

Let’s see how long all of these other contenders last in the room before we anoint anything as superior......
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I’m not predicting that he goes immediately back to Wilson (that would be too easy a prediction as that has happened last two times!), or even that he has already moved on from the Focals (tho wouldn’t be surprised), and no I didn’t prove any point that you made.

What I will predict is that anything non-Wilson that comes in will not last as long as Wilson collectively did, which I submit is the ultimate barometer.

Care to dispute that prediction?
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
That’s an opinion, fair enough. But let’s see what happens in the room.

My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that each time WC parts with Wilson he immediately begins to severely miss the authoratative slam and muscularity that so many others lack.

Indeed, I heard it myself on the very first Focal video and said so right here on the thread, and WC agreed that for dynamics and muscularity Wilson is tops. And that was a $140k speaker competing against a $55k speaker!!

I think those features are so important to WC that, once the initial shine wears off, everything else is gone before we know it. But let’s see. The proof will be in the pudding. Maybe the Focals are already gone??? In less than a month???

I wouldn’t think they’d be gone yet (I had set over/under for New Years if I recall), and I didn’t think they sounded bad, but last post WC waxing about Magico and Maggies in latest video, so I guess time will tell. At a minimum WC went to a lot of trouble to move the beasts out of the way and place the Maggies. Maybe not a good sign for Focal longevity??? Only guessing-


kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Either YG or Magico would be great to hear.  Don't have dealer access to either brand within 300 miles so would be interesting to hear what they sound like.  Easy for all of us to spend WC's money, haha.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Yeah I most often listen on decent headphones and it sounds good.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Did you move the Focals forward in the room? Move positioning I mean?

Sounds good. Trebles are really good. (for mid-range, bass, dynamics I’d choose Wilson though, just personal preference, others will surely disagree - and I know WC doesn't really want us debating the old stuff too much, haha).
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Guttenberg just did a video on that subject based on his time working at Singer in NYC. Both of those types you mention, but also some who are not so well off and sacrifice in many other areas just to get top equipment. Those were his favorite customers reading between the lines.

With how many fewer hi-fi stores there are now, I think you have to be at least somewhat of an audiophile to even find your way into such a store. It’s not like they’re on every corner like in the 70s and 80s. Now you really have to seek them out.

Most of the folks who just build big fancy houses get some POS whole house system installed with ceiling speakers and listen to spotify through that and think its the sh&t.

And you so want to tell them it sucks but that would really break their heart cause everything else in the house is first rate, haha
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
My guess on the new components is a new dac and clocking module or streamer of some sort.


If I had to get very specific, I will guess EMMlabs but don’t have very high confidence level on this one. 

Reason for guess: don’t see WC going up ladder right now in amp, preamp or speakers compared to what in room now. That leaves source. Unless these are components for the budget system, then it could be anything
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Reason I listed Yvette, Sabrina and Tune Tot obviously not because they are panels (duh, they're not), but because WC also recently said he's done with sub-100k Wilson because he's happy with what he'd done there already (Sasha DAW, Alexia, Alexia 2) - been there, done that.

So even though I really like Wilson, I'm not gonna pester WC to get Yvette, for example, or to try the new SabrinaX. (because he's said he's not interested, just like he said he's not interested in panels going forward)
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Hear that? No more panels for WC. So let’s try to stick to discussing the stuff WC has and has had previously, or at least the stuff he has not preemptively dismissed, like panels which would include GTA, and would also include sub-100k Wilsons that he hasn’t previously had (I guess that’s Sabrina, Yvette, Tune Tot).
That is WC’s polite way of saying please don’t pollute this thread with talk of the GTA which he has no interest in. If F and V want to discuss, that’s what PM for or start new thread. Take a hint.

If he changes his mind down road that’s different but for now he’s made his intentions clear.

I’m going to go out on a limb now and predict the Focal Stellas are gone and Magico on the way. Just a hunch. Probably low probability of being correct but let’s see......
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
You’d have to ask WC for his reasons, although he’s also said he has no interest in subwoofers because he wants to hear the power amplifier’s sound for bass, not some subwoofer amplifier for bass.

All I know is just a couple posts up he said basically he doubts he’ll get panels again and that he has his reasons for that statement.

So out of deference to his wishes, I suggest we avoid polluting the thread with stuff he’s told us he is not interested in, like panels and sub-100k Wilson that he hasn’t previously owned - Sasha DAW, Alexia 1 and 2 obviously good for discussion since he’s had them (longer than any other speakers). Other things he’s told us he’s not interested in are classical music and turntables and modding and subwoofers off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Ya when I set over/under at New Year I could not conceive that the post-Wilson honeymoon would not last at least 1.5 months with a $140k speaker. dang, that was quick.

Even 4 days ago when the Maggies showed up on new video for no apparent reason I think I said something like "the Focal experiment is ongoing, or is it?" Then a pre-recorded Focal video came after but it all seemed strange. Just had a feeling they were already gone, and finally got to the point yesterday where I was willing to go out on a limb and predict it, including calling the replacement.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Wow, I called it again on Magico! (should have taken the bet, haha) Focal lasts only 2 weeks after Wilson lasted a year across 3 speakers. Wow.

From yesterday: "I’m going to go out on a limb now and predict the Focal Stellas are gone and Magico on the way. Just a hunch."

Pay attention to how long things last in the room, the true barometer.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Could be - that actually wouldn’t surprise me one bit. You cannot stay away from Wilson.

And come to think of it: Focal + Maggie gets you close to new Magico plus Alexx cost wise, I’m guessing, with Alexx out there used in the 60’s ...

Boy would that ever piss techno and viber off if you right away go straight up the Wilson ladder so soon after seeing Alexia 2 depart, haha. Their dream speaker Focal gone in 2 weeks, see ya.

FWIW, I still think the DAWs and the Collosseum were best fit for the room. Just my opinion (but the barometer test of longevity agrees with me)
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Well the easy thing to do would be to quit while I’m ahead......but that’s no fun.

So before the paint has even dried on the amazing $140k Focal out, Magico in call that nobody else saw coming, I’m already gonna make the next call.

I predict that before long (probably before Thanksgiving) we will see Wilson Alexx in WC’s room.

Why?

1. Most importantly, WC cannot live without the Wilson Audio sound. He’s had it for nearly a year straight, and each of last two times he ditched Wilson, purportedly for something better, the something was gone before we knew it and a bigger and better Wilson had taken its place. (yes DAW better than Alexia 1 because newer technology).

2. It would be highly out of character for WC to replace the $140k Focal with something he expects to be inferior. Nothing against the Magico, but he does not expect them to beat the Focal. But he does expect Alexx to. See, the Magico’s are a distraction. The big fish is coming.

3. His denial of Wilson "not interested in any sub-100k Wilson" was too specific and something nobody was wondering about. Nobody expected him to move down the Willson chain, only up, and that only left six figure options remaining. The denial felt like someone trying to throw investigators off the scent, but it backfired.

4. The "once you have a six figure speaker" comment today was also a tell.

5. WC says he wasn’t impressed with Alexx at a show. Yet we know he has pursued Alexx previously (he told us) but it fell through. So he obviously has gotten over any supposed underwhelm. And if he has pursued something previously you can be sure he will again.

I think what happened is he got a call with something he couldn’t refuse for Alexx, and the Focals had to go. The Magico’s now replace the 20.7 as the "budget" speaker (must be nice!). You all think they’re the main course, but they’re the appetizer.

Wilson Alexx arriving in 3....2....


(if that language looks familiar, recall that I used it to predict right after he got Maggie 3.7i that he’d be getting 20.7 before too long)
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Well at least we can say he's consistent : )

There's that - all equally disadvantaged I suppose.  I think he spiked the Sasha DAWs for a time.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Sorry to hear of your father’s passing Viber. Good story about his kit.

I really wish my 12 year old would catch the audio interest bug but so far not yet ...
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Not hard at all!
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
You should keep his audio gear. You may later regret it if you give it away.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I think music lovers want to hear music that interests them played at the highest fidelity possible, whether it is amplified or unamplified, processed or unprocessed, regardless of genre.

Unamplified music, unprocessed music, live or not, that sucks, still.......well,......still sucks, regardless of the fidelity.

And that choice of music that is of interest will be different for all, as will one’s opinion of music that sucks.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
That’s kinda funny (sorry WC but sometimes Techno comes up with a good one).

Here’s my theory on Techno: he really isn’t anti-WC or this journey everyone else seems to be enjoying. And at times like this (given current room state), he is borderline agreeable. 

But see, he has this deep-seated hatred of Wilson Audio, and when WC is featuring Wilson (as has been the case most of last year), it really chaps Techno. But since Wilson’s been gone, much less irascible. Almost makes me wish my Alexx prediction is wrong....

so WC, what’s taking so long? When those bad boys showing up??



kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I know but Thanksgiving is just 6 days!  haha
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
No way! Your wife is a saint to put up with what you are doing. My favorite pic in the history timeline was still the baby stroller hidden by tons of speakers and amps.

"Jay, you’re watching the baby, right?"

"Oh yeah, she’s right here, in the stroller right behind the 802D3’s!!"

Love it!
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Yeah on initial listen but I gotta do it all over with my good headphones

just used phone so far so fwiw

also harder to compare gta with 20.7 bc electronics so different but I do like pass labs a lot also

just one person’s opinion of course but dynamics and slam important to me maybe more than others. Why? Because those are important parts of real music that I listen to
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
WC == biggest Wilson lover of all

I’m actually a Spendor D series lover, if we want to get specific.

If you were to ever get the $11k flagship D9.2 to kick the butt of every inexpensive speaker you’ve ever had, I’d not put up with the slightest bit of criticism of it by anyone -- gloves come off then!!! hahaha
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Interesting video. However, having just listened to both vids (and since what we do here is offer our opinions on sq) the Magnepan 20.7 beat the GTA both in sound quality (different room and equipment, acknowledged, but all we got to go on) and looks, WC video of 20.7 and Gryphon sounds better in my opinion. GTA sound lean to my ears. GTA beats the Magnepan 3.7i and Martin Logan 15A though, I’ll say.

Wilson Sasha DAW destroys all of them. My opinion.

See WC, you create a Friday night video vacuum and we’re reduced to commenting on JV material that others jump in to fill! No offense intended- indeed I thought sounded better than Martin Logan 15A.

oops, with this post I just violated my suggestion of not polluting thread with discussion of components WC has said he’s not interested in. Eeeks
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Lol I bet that’s how 80% of folks listen to your vids! That’s what YT is about!
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Right but the point is, and I guess this is a complement that your videos are interesting, when they come out I like to listen to them asap. I’m not carrying my big headphones around when I’m meeting with clients or taking my kids to hockey or eating breakfast or ....

I agree, if you want the best playback quality, use good equipment to do it. Duh. But what you really want is more views, and like it or not that will most likely involve most just using whatever is convenient at the moment. YT generation, after all ... When we get time to actually sit down and critically listen for hours at a time, even most on this thread are hopefully going to their own systems and not YT.  

I'm already dealing with a serious time-wastage problem with audio, as my wife continually reminds me, but that's another story......
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Well yeah, everyone probably has it available, but they are not all sitting by their systems waiting for your videos to come out. They come out at random times and people play them on their phone and move on with their life. If it is something they are really interested in they go back later and probably use their system to listen - I do that a lot. Unless they’re retired or not working or whatever and have tons of free time. I don’t think it’s something people schedule their busy lives around. Maybe they do, haha. No offense intended, but it’s youtube.

And pretty much every time I post an opinion of a listen from just phone I identify it as such, so settle down : )

I'm just saying that like it or not I would bet a ton of people just listen to the videos over their phones because of convenience.  
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
With all due respect, kind of dangerous to assume what others can and cannot afford. Not only that, it is a bad look to be throwing out there. Doesn’t reflect well.

What I would say is that you have no way of knowing, first, and second you might be very surprised when making assumptions like that. But regardless, not even sure why that is even relevant???

That said, I agree with you that people try to justify their reasons for what they have, and for purchasing decisions or decisions to get rid of something they had previously. But I submit that is a two-way street.......
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Fair enough. I’ll avoid mentioning those on the thread you’ve privately complained to me about and asked me to call out ....... out of respect for confidentiality
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
But while we’re at it, go back to last Wilson Alexia 2 video where Man in Moon played or second last video where Keith Don’t Go is played. Wilson does it best of all, top to bottom. Listen to the guitar realness come across in those presentations; listen to the dynamic swings; listen to the coherency top to bottom - nothing overemphasized (no overbiting treble), nothing missing. It feels like you are right there in the room.  It's the reason even WC can live with Wilson for a year straight, rather than jettisoning everything else within days or weeks (and why I predict Alexx incoming soon).

I’ll take Wilson over everything so far, there, I said it. hahahaha (others will disagree and that’s cool)
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
It’s subjective. One person’s opinion. Listened with good headphones, couple times. Not trying to convince anyone (never am), just my opinion.

Plenty (many or most) of YT comments on the vid also say others you’ve had recently are better. For the record I hadn’t read any of those comments before coming to my own opinion. Why so sensative? Scroll past it if you like, that’s cool.

I thought the point of all of this was that you want us to listen and offer up our opinions? Sometimes that means we will not like the latest and current entry to the room as much as what preceded it, especially when you go backwards in price tier. You have the best opportunity to provide the comparative analysis but you haven’t compared them yet against the others so in meantime...

I stand by earlier statement that I’d take M3 over 20.7, definitely for other reasons cumulatively, but for clarity and quickness I give it to 20.7 (and in post above I was clear that I’m only agreeing with Viber on that one narrow aspect as to Stella, M3, 20.7 -- I suspect Viber would say because of that one aspect that he’d rank 20.7 in totality above M3 full stop, because he generally tends to view clarity as the only factor that really matters, but he can speak for himself).

Also, the comparison for me anyway was only done wrt the common song "man in the moon." Does that mean it wouldn’t change with other common songs? Not necessarily. Just preliminary findings.

I don’t think anyone really cares what Viber or I say about SQ anyway, so it’s not like we’re negatively impacting your resale value in any meaningful way.

At end of day I draw the conclusion (with caveat that it's just YT, blah, blah, blah -- when I get to point of spending this kind of $ I'll verify in person) for myself only that probably Magico isn’t my favorite sounding speaker at that cost level, just as I did with D’agostino and Ayre when you had those components. Personal preference.


kren0006
1,859 posts
 
yep, done.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 

Good job WC. Well deserved milestone 
 

when you get a chance, please rank the Krell integrated amp as it compares to the other integrateds you’ve had (Luxman 590axii, Pass int 60, Sim Audio, Gryphon, etc). 

kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Went back and listened to a bunch of the videos of Alexia2, Stella, Magico and 20.7, across the different songs (not necessarily straight-up comparisons across common songs, but rather an amalgam). 

I like ron17's analysis - can't really argue with any of that.

But for me I'm not so focused on the things he was.  I went into it not even knowing what I wanted to focus on.  I just let the presentations guide me and tried to ID the biggest differences I heard - probably at the end of the day this points me to those things that are most important to me.  Plus I'm kinda hungry right now and wondering what I'll have for dinner tonight, but I digress.

What really stood out across the presentations was the difference in dynamics and what I'll call muscularity or slam.  That kick you in the chest slam that just grabs you by the throat and says, listen up mf'er, this is how the music is supposed to sound.  Anything else, just take that weak sh++t and move along.  

If a speaker doesn't have it, and I mean really have it, it cannot rise to the top for me.  All of the other stuff (tonal balance, clarity, coherency, soundstage, imaging, midrange, treble, bass, balance, ....) is important too, even necessary, but dynamics and muscularity is a deal breaker for me if it is missing.  For others, it won't be as important.  I think though, for WC it is just as important to him as it is to me, and I think his speaker choices and length of ownership bear that out.

So, let's describe it in terms of a restaurant analogy.  Wait wuh?

20.7:  This is the little known restaurant you book with your wife, not having high expectations, but you get there and it is all a lot better than you expected it to be.  The food was good, as you expected it to be, but the ambience and fun factor was much better than you expected.  The service was top notch for what you are spending - good experience.  You leave having had a great time and you will be back.

Magico:  This is the highly regarded Mexican restaurant that you've been hearing so much about, and you have high expectations.  But you get there with your wife and the menu that is handed to you has all Indian dishes.  You're like, WTF??  But you order anyway and the Indian food isn't bad, not great.  But the weird thing is the entertainment is some hula dancing team.  None of any of it makes any sense.  You leave going, what just happened here??

Stella:  This is the black tie steakhouse, all formal, little stuffy.  You and wife enjoy a fantastic meal, and the entertainment in the corner is a violin player, who is very good (technically really, really good), but, you know, it's a violin player.  You look around, and everyone is sitting properly at attention, some watching, some looking at their phones.  The music isn't very loud, and it seems overly polite.  You leave thinking, well, that was really expensive, and the food was great, the entertainment level was I guess okay, and I think my wife liked it a lot, but ...... just not really my style.

Alexia 2:  This is the top BBQ joint in St. Louis or Austin, with the best rated ribs and brisket in the country, and the entertainment for the night is a kickass blues band.  You and your wife enjoy an amazing BBQ spread, you eat and drink way too much because it is just so good, and then the band starts and everyone in the place starts dancing, the drinks are flowing, the music is loud, and by the end of the night everyone is fist-bumping each other.  Somehow your wife ends up on stage and is belting out an Allman Brothers Band classic, and as the night goes on the playlist gets heavier.  You leave thinking that is the best damn time I've had in a very long time.

Give me Wilson all day, every day.  It's the only one of the four that put a huge smile on my face.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
hehe, thanks tjassoc! I got some encouragement to return to the thread by a member who’d never previously reached out to me, so out of appreciation for that kind gesture I tried to bring it one time with a little bit extra....
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Using analogies to convey opinions on complex, emotionally charged subjects is akin to bear hunting with a bow on a mountain. 

Virtually zero chance it hits mark with desired effect, and high likelihood of situation going downhill fast.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Yep, like I said, by Thanksgiving .....   : )

Not only accurately called the next component (wasn't even told to us it was a speaker) but also the date, oh my.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Ha, I wish I was as good at picking investments as I am at predicting WC’s next move.

WC, congrats.  Those are special speakers.  The level that the room is at right now is unbelievable
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Alexx is a beautiful speaker in person. Especially the carpet ; )

(psst: it’s called felt, NOT CARPET, lol))
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Don’t be sad that Focal and Magico could together only last 3 weeks and now the next rung up on the Wilson ladder is here for the comparatively long term.  
It’s a good thing!!
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
And let us know if the Alexx is beating the $30k+ more expensive Focal Stella (ie, you could get Alexx AND Yvette or SabrinaX for less than Stella) even before you spike the Alexx, and in what ways it is doing so (assuming it is).

Question: Is it possible or ever contemplated to make it a sealed cabinet speaker by using the blocking panels on both front and back? I guess it is certainly possible since the same panel fits both front and back, but assuming that they don’t include four panels, only two, so you’d have to somehow get two more if that was something you’d want to try
kren0006
1,859 posts
 

WC, you said in the video that you only installed one of the three Furutech outlets, which means the other two operational outlets should be unchanged. Simply plug your 2ch system now into those and see if the expected sound returns.

That should clear up whether it is the new outlet or power company AC degradation issues.


Your HT experiment wouldn’t necessarily have detected for this

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