haha, listen to the essense and pick up his memphisto i bet
As to the question of "why Wilson?" that somebody asked, have you been following the thread and videos? Look at what he always comes back to, and it tells you all you need to know about what he finds to be the best sounding. If he hasn’t had a Wilson and been extolling its virtues over the last year (DAW or Alexia 1), he’s had something else and been lamenting that it wasn’t a Wilson or comparing it to a Wilson. Read between the lines.
Wilson speakers, Gryphon amps (this will be confirmed if the new amp is a Gryphon - if it’s something else then there is no preferred amp brand yet), and Audio Research preamps. Budget category (compared to the deep end of this thread) is Luxman for his preferred (2 of 3 as best all time he’s owned for $$).
That’s the best way to judge what WC thinks is best sound quality -- what he keeps going back to and keeps the longest. In the case of Wilson, he was only able to stand being without one for a couple weeks since the DAWs left, and several times when he talked about the Maggie speakers on the videos during this two week period (or whatever it was) he ended up drawing comparisons to Wilson. |
You would perhaps be interested to know that my integrated amp is class D. Audio Research class D, believe it or not. About 10 years old. It was the first and only solid state integrated amp that ARC ever made. Fully internally developed class D circuits, no 3rd party modules. Runs cool and weighs about 40 lbs. I like it a lot, but a top Luxman integrated will be a nice step up for that system when the time comes.
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Thanks fazee. I already have! Not on my speakers, but at a dealer on Wilson SabrinaX with Chord dac. I preferred the $10k 509x to an ARC separates LS28 and VT 80se stack at a combined $20k on that system. My decision with Luxman will come down to the class A 590 or new 595 versus the AB 509
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Couple more questions.
On video you say they are high power hurricane power cords as you are taking them out of box. But you also say dragon. Assuming the hurricane mention was an error? Or did you mean you had hurricane with adapters on mephisto previously?
so two days of three for mephisto, what is third one for?
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Well this will probably be a first, but I’m actually going to agree with Viber on something!
WC, you probably don’t realize you’re doing it, but by pre-judging a negative affect that a tube preamp *might* have with the Mephisto, you are kinda falling for into a similar trap that all the class D haters fall into wrt class D (pre-judging based on expected results).
You already have the component, so just give it a fair shot. If it loses vs Dag or Christine or whatever else, then so be it. Only one way to find out. |
I’ll cut WC some slack because he’s either owned this preamp before or at least the Ref 6, so he isn’t basing any statements on pure speculation.
Anyway, back to the new speakers and amp. Let me ask a delicate question: on the first tune of latest video, it almost sounds like too much bass?? Maybe placement of the Alexias? Is it possible the DAWs fit your room better? From what we can see of your room on the videos I wouldn’t think Alexia would be too much for the room, and you had the 1’s so you’d know. Maybe Mephisto and Alexia 2 can be an overpowering combo bass-wise -- wouldn’t be surprising.
I didn’t detect the same (too heavy bass) for the second tune, or for the earlier video of Alexia 2 with Parasound.
Or am I imagining the too much bass?
I know nothing is broken in and obviously I’m not in the room, and I don’t want to criticize the sound, just sounded a little bass heavy to me maybe ...
Edit: on second thought I think it is probably the woofers are still loosening up and will improve with break-in |
Well I’ve heard Alexx (the bigger model above the Alexia 2 in Wilson’s lineup) used with subs, so surely using subs with Alexia 2 happens in some circumstances, as it does with virtually speakers depending on room and application and budget |
Viber hasn’t heard any of these amps, of course. For the reasons psnyder details and I’ll not repeat, most audiophiles would be best served to run in the opposite direction of Vibers audio gear recommendations due to his fringe sonic preferences. Doesn’t mean he’s ill-intentioned, just that his audio advice is best avoided
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I really liked the Merrill, Wilson, ARC sound.
Not so much the Gryphon and Fyne.
I’m sorry to hear that the Mephisto is not living up to expectations to this point WC. You probably had built it up too much at the outset (“the end,” “probably will never be able to improve on this,” “maybe last amp I’ll ever buy”), none of those statements really fit your deal of churning thru gear (no negative connotation intended by that statement) so in some ways maybe you were bound to be underwhelmed.
Anyway, this isn’t the first time that initially things are underwhelming and you will get it figured out. Keep it in perspective and take a longer term view and let the presentation come to you. Eventually you will hit on the right combination .
what is refreshing is that you continue to tell it like it is. No sugar, no fluff. Right now the mephisto isn’t carrying its weight and you are telling us that. But it isn’t broken in and maybe you still need to find the complementary parts. Keep up the great work. What a ride this is to follow along on |
Viber now that WC has Wilson again the Maggies are only good for standing behind when he is changing clothes and wants to be modest. Not his reference for clarity, lol. |
I like to sit down the street in the blues club or the piano bar rather than in any damn row of the classical music concert 😂
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Well finally we get the reveal that I predicted 3-4 months ago. Even tho WC did a video that said he was completely done with Gryphon, I still knew he’d get the Solo’s and predicted back then that those were the solid state amps he had.
But was it really necessary to repeat that Vibers amp completely fell apart on complex music passages? (A point I also made before it was revealed which amp was which in the blind test).
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Yeah I’ve never met WC but YT limitations aside I think my sonic tastes are very similar also. Except I never really liked any of the Dagostino stuff much but my theory is WC didn’t either he just didn’t want to rip it 😂
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Don’t discount the improvement realized by simply moving the 20.7 from right behind the Wilsons. Was wondering on previous vids why in the heck is he storing those there?? |
AHB2 and zip cord on this thread. That’s pretty much all you need to know about Viber6 and whether to take him seriously...
Exhibit A: "the only amp that might beat [AHB2] is the Mephisto"
Get ready for the walkback...
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Viber6’s bs drives people from this thread. Nobody save one or two cares about the crap he spews endlessly, and no matter how many times he is told by WC (Including recently) to knock it off, he just cannot stop. Life is too short, I’ve decided......Luckily, he confines most of his energy here, so it is easy to get away from him and there are other interesting threads
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Viber6,
What WC is politely trying to tell you above is that your criteria for judging equipment that you have never heard is not appreciated, nor is your telling him how his rankings should be altered based on your criteria for judging equipment you have never heard. You attempted to try to get him to change his rankings (saying Christine should be higher than he ranked it).
So please take his advice and desist. Don't try to convince him he likes whiskey, or should like whiskey, when he has made it clear he prefers vodka. Good advice. |
It may be a bit presumptuous to say you don’t believe anything can compete with the 20.7’s for the price when over the past one or two years (ie, covering current generation of speakers) you haven’t owned very many sub15k speakers (at least that’s what I recall). There are a lot of contenders out there in that price space that you haven’t owned. Just sayin’
Perhaps you are supplementing your ownership experience with demo’ing at shows etc.
But point taken that you like the 20.7 |
Will the Mag / ML shootout be blind or sighted?
for blind you’d really need to focus camera in on electronics.
Blind could be fun bc most listeners probably arrive at at Mag/ML death match with strong preconceived notions of which they prefer, especially if they’ve explored that peninsula of speaker topology (yes I know they’re different technologies but closer than farther apart in broad speaker universe) |
Looks like I’m in minority if YT comments are indication but I preferred the video with the Merrill preamp to the one without a preamp on the Mags. I don’t think I could listen for long sessions without the preamp. Sounded a bit thin and maybe shrill (that’s too harsh but you get what I mean).
Huge preference of the Wilsons over the Mags but I know that not the point of this and they are way different pricepoint. Still think the Mags vs. ML will be extremely interesting. I wonder if results will be same with Gryphon amp and Parasound amps? Will everyone pick same speaker across the two amp choices, or would they prefer one with G and one with P??? That would be interesting also. So many possibilities when you have this variety of gear.
This is probably counterintuitive also but after a month of listening to videos I think Colliseum would be my preferred vs Mephisto given price difference for sure, maybe straight up. (to extent any legit comparisons can be drawn across YT vids, HA!! but it’s great fun)
on blind, duh, I guess that makes sense. I haven’t heard 20.7 in person (have heard 3.7 or 3.6 in person, latest whichever that is) and was hoping 20.7 would be a better contender bass wise so as not to be glaringly obvious. Kind of an indictment on a $14k speaker to say it can’t do full bass and that it is so obvious versus a competitor like you say to be so instantly recognizable in the deficiency. |
WC, maybe hook up the cheap HT subs with the Mags to give them a fighting chance across a full-range spectrum vs the ML?? They’re sitting right there! Would still love to hear Mag v ML straight up without subs -- that’s more important of course -- but maybe at end just give it a go with the subs???
I know you aren't interested in subs too much at this level but if you want appeal to greater masses of viewers, might be worth going that extra length |
Cool, man, keep it up!
Loved the sound of the Colloseum with DAWs but the PC tower look dunno if I could handle that. But that would probably be an end-game combo for me at some point in a small-mid listening room.
Can you tell any difference in the AQ cable risers versus those ceramic-looking curling stone white ones you had a few months ago? |
kps that was an awesome post, agree! Well except for the last sentence. Just kidding. Viber is fine but couldn't have said it any better that he has highly unusual preference for audio presentation and therefore makes his recommendations somewhat useless, as you say. |
thezaks,
The difference between me and Viber is that I never (or at least try hard to never) tell WC (or anyone else) how he should "think" or try to imply he is wrong in his assessments. Viber does this all the time. I simply state what I like and why, which is exactly what WC has asked us to do.
More than that, Viber will not accept that any audio view other than his is correct. I am happily willing to accept that everyone hears differently and prefers different presentations -- what works for some won’t work for others. A view which almost everyone shares. And I never claim to be an expert, something Viber does all the time also.
So with all due respect I think comparing me to him as you did misses the mark a bit.
If Viber makes a preponderous statement, I’ll point it out. But no personal animosity. It’s an audio forum, nothing more. |
I’m confused. Why would smaller Colosseum use 20A power cord and bigger Mephisto use 15A power cord? From same manufacturer??
Maybe you told us and I missed it during my detox-from-the-thread period
either way glad it sounding better |
I agree with Viber that he does not directly insult people, that is true. And the comments questioning his profession were out of bounds.
That said, it’s not that Viber insults people (he doesn’t), but his posts are often perjorative, which has the same effect, just more subtly.
Anyway, agree with WC and mods and others let’s all move on past this bickering. Too much fun stuff going on in WC’s room. I don’t think I’d ever buy either speaker but I’m as excited as anyone to hear the Martin Logan v. Magnepan faceoff.
WC re Colloseum, yes, I thought it together with the DAWs was magical on the videos. I haven’t yet heard that same magic with the Alexias and the Mephisto, but certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see you capture it or surpass it -- after all, these are higher products in each manufacturer’s lines. Looking forward to what’s ahead.
If I could swing Colloseum and Wilson Sasha DAWs, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Alas, not in cards for several years so presently setting sights on Luxman 590AXII and Spendor D9.2, still a hefty outlay for mere mortals : )
That's why I so appreciated you listing your best amps for the money. The three you listed on YT video at time were Luxman 590AXII, Luxman 900u, and Colloseum. I think I'd be happy with any of them, and perhaps that is the ladder I will move up eventually. |
Oh dear. Methinks in a shootout between Wilson Alexx and Magnepan LRS that Viber would rule it too close to call, but give the edge to LRS for clarity (sigh) |
Agree, nothing wrong with that. Good point. As long as there is no attempt at projection, it's cool. |
One idea would be to get some $75 Blue Jeans speaker cables, which could approximate the quality in theory of stock power cords. Same re BJ IC.
It’s a well regarded brand at the bargain level where people start out, a step up from AnazonBasics (yes I’ve gone thru both, haha). Currently using lower-mid MIT and lower-mid AQ fwiw.
Looking forward to new Mephisto vid |
Yes, V, I fully expect you would choose the $650 speaker over the Chromosonic. Is there any doubt?
Similarly, I imagine somewhere there is an out of work football scout who will die on a hill claiming Mitch Trubisky is a superior QB to Patrick Mahomes, perhaps because of some small-portion-of-the-whole aspect that he purportedly comparatively excels at (e.g., he barks out cadences better). Predictably, that scout will not be impressing many NFL GM’s with his fringe takes, no matter how strenuously he espouses them....
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Not bc of the price. But the extreme price difference was carefully chosen to show the bizarreness of your fringe predilections.
But you would likely say that LRS has better clarity, which would be undoubtedly wrong (I have demo’d the LRS for 20 minutes vs Rega RS1 (or was it RX1, I forget, whatever the bookshelf Rega is), Spendor A1, and the Linn bookshelf. Listened carefully to each for 20-30 minutes over 2 hrs at a dealer. Electronics were Rega and separately Atoll. By comparison overall sound quality the LRS was garbage.
But you would, I assume and you don’t deny, pick the LRS as having superior clarity. I presume you haven’t heard either speaker (I picked Alexx because I’ve listened to it for at least 10 hours, you raised me to Chronosonic).
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Back to audio.
WC: this might be an interesting topic for a future video: Explain and give examples from your journey about the much debated question of which cable most profoundly impacts sound quality: power cable, speaker cable, or interconnect cable, and rank the three accordingly .
I think you now have enough experience to give a pretty good opinion with real life examples of that question.
Some might find it boring but I think it’s be fascinating, and yes I am serious here.
Then there are the side questions like which power cord? To dac, to amp? From wall to power conditioner? Same for XLRs. Does the ranking change depending on budget? Ie, if one has 5k total to spend on cables will the answer be different than if one has 20k or 50k?
I’m sure there are other interesting tangents as well.
Just a thought. I’ve seen the question debated and there is rarely consensus, which is a good indication that it is a ripe question for consideration
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Very nice sound in new 20.7/Gryphon video everything from 100Hz up anyway. I like the 20.7. I think the WW works better with them than Nordost did. Or perhaps it’s the new dragons. Or mephisto breaking in more. Anyway, sounds good! Almost cavernous in its soundstage- impressive!
I predict that I may prefer the 20.7 over the 13a, but we will see.
Deficiencies vs Wilson DAW or Alexia include obviously bass but also dynamic slam and tonality, pretty much everything I guess except for massive soundstage (gotta give that to Maggie) and equally quick, maybe slightly moreso for 20.7. But Bravo, you have them sounding as good as they can I imagine and I’ll readily admit to being a Wilson admirer. Different tier groups I know just keepin it real |
Yeah gotta be Wadax dac. You guys who guessed that win. Hats off to ya
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WC never treats this thread like he owns it and is generally never disrespectful. Stop arguing for the sake of argument and let him do his thing
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no I mean post video impressions here, on A’gon. That’s what we need more of so we don’t have to talk about Vibers pull-ups or Techno’s beefs
i think so far I am only one to comment here about latest vid |
Carey that is Excellent point you make about musical preference. You’re right. None of WC’s selections have been unamplified Violins, and precisely zero people are asking for that, well except one.
Re other comment about getting back to WC journey, watch the YT vids and post impressions here. Not enough people do that and then the thread gets sidetracked into silliness |
Let's ask WC rather than Viber: WC, which speaker has the better tweeter, Alexia 2 or 20.7?
Does 20.7 outperform Alexia 2 in high frequencies as Viber claims without having heard either?
Let us know. |
WC: does the Alexia 2 sound like canned corn tastes in comparison to the sound of the 20.7, which Viber equates to much superior fresh corn?
Without hearing either, on Viber’s part, of course.
You’ve owned and heard both extensively. Tell us. |
Whoa! Didn’t care for the ML 13a bass. I want quality over quantity. Give me 20.7 over the 13a so far, even though the 20.7 don’t have enough bass. Probably room correction will help 13a, let’s hope.
Sorry for the negative initial impression. But then again even on Alexia 2 initially I thought bass too much. But you got that corrected.
Even on tonality I’m going with 20.7 so far. Of course with usual caveats of only listening through headphone system, blah blah blah
Both wildly inferior to DAW or Alexia 2 virtually across the board, IMO. But fun experiments. Will be more interesting after you get the 13a dialed in. |
I understand they are way cheaper but still those here who claim they are better. |
Totally open. Viber has posted probably hundreds or thousands of posts in this thread. Pretty good understanding of what he knows or doesn’t know - hell he tells us three ways til Sunday every other week, the same damn thing over and over. I’ll just say his posts speak for themselves, and leave it at that.
IMO, WC knows much more about gear than Viber. That’s my opinion. I suppose I did say "nobody here thinks," so in fairness I will retract that. Good point. |
It comes across as you think you know more than WC about gear. Nobody on this thread except you believes you know more about gear than WC, regardless of how many times you have fiddled in the restroom. |
Recall that right after the very first Alexia 2 and Mephisto video, I was the one person who suggested that even there the bass may have been too much, and I think subsequently WC repositioned the speakers ( not based on my comment necessarily but just illustrating a sensitivity to excess bass and to counteract the allegation that I love bass - I guess I do but it’s gotta be done correctly ) |
So I wouldn’t say I’m a bass freak. Not at all. My most recent comments should prove that.
You assume that simply bc I find the Wilsons superior to the Maggies, bc in your mind that is the only reason one would reach that conclusion, based on your preconceived notions.
That’s way too simplistic. In reality, I find the Wilson DAW superior to the 20.7 in almost every way, except possibly in soundstage and perhaps a bit in quickness. But that’s personal preference. Others will disagree and that’s ok.
But as to bass, what I would say if the music calls for it, then the gear is inferior if it cannot produce. Even classical has deep bass on occasion, as you will surely recognize. That said, loose or boomy or overwhelming bass is decidedly worse sounding than a presentation that is too light on bass.
But give me the Collosseum and Sasha DAW, which hit the magical sweet spot across the board that I haven’t yet heard matched in the videos.
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I suppose it is fair to point out that WC’s preamps that led him to the conclusion are generally top of line.
Maybe it doesn’t extend to budget level preamps that would fit with Vibers Mytek amp.
That may be possible. I don’t know. |
Don’t be so sensitive on a Saturday morning. : )
First, it wasn’t my opinion that preamps are nearly always superior to dac direct, except POSSIBLY when you have a six figure dac.
That is WC’s opinion, which he clearly articulated in the video. Watch it.
Second, I didn’t call anyone out with my statement. But it is often repeated here on this thread by you and others that dac direct is always better. Of course you have typically never heard the combo in question, that goes without saying. You only rely on what you believe to be historically true based on outdated information. Not current products.
Listen, I don’t have a strong opinion on the matter, because I know enough not to talk out of my .... when I haven’t heard the equipment.
But WC does have a strong opinion on it. So much so he made it one of his TOP 10 MYTHS. His statements, not mine. Watch the video.
Again, no personal attack intended, and not sure how that could have even be reasonably interpreted.
”Blabbering wisdom” phrase chosen simply because that is what typically feeds misguided myths, and this one apparently so pronounced that it makes WC’s top 10. |
All I was doing was amplifying WC’s point about preamps being superior in almost all cases to dac direct.
Why amplify?
Because all too often WC will very clearly make his opinion known on a point like this, and then a day later you pronounce the exact opposite and claim it as fact and say WC also thinks that. Twisting reality.
Just putting a marker down here on the thread that WC has spoken on this issue, after dozens of trials to form his opinion.
So in three days don’t try to convince him dac direct is better. That is a top 10 myth, after all. Watch the video and learn.
And in case you missed the significance of it being a top 10 myth, let me point out by continually pushing the myth, you are the prime perpetrator of the myth, on this thread anyway. So if anyone should tone things down, I suggest you stop pushing the dac direct myth (WC’s myth selection, not mine) |
So WC, does room corrected 13A beat 20.7??
i predict you will prefer the 13A |
