I can't quite speak about what I'd pay for an item unfortunately.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab
I have never had a preamp at the level of my boulder. However , maybe it’s the synergy as a whole that I am loving. I will try to use the dcs Vivaldi as a preamp and connect it to my pass amps .what if it blows me away ? Although I have heard from dealers that the Vivaldi isn’t great as a preamp but rather as a source. However , you all know I will do my own experiments and will draw my own conclusions but yes I will admit that if the Vivaldi comes here and creates better SYNERGY for me when used as a preamp then I'll be shocked. |
Dcs Vivaldi is in the house and up and running. Tomorrow I will do the shootout between the k1 and Vivaldi. I have my initial impressions already and I can say that the law of diminishing returns between both is huge. For now, I don’t feel like the dcs is really giving me more synergy than the esoteric. Part of the shootout will be a blind folded shootout so that nobody is biased because I have people coming from both camps. Will keep you all posted ! |
Bolder 2010 vs dcs Vivaldi (preamp war ) Boulder 2010 sent the Vivaldi packing right away. I should give the boulder paid time off because there has been zero competition here for it when it comes to preamplification. It murdered the xp30 and it made the Vivaldi realize that it is meant to be used as source and not to try and do a man’s job when it comes to preamplification. I wish I had local audiophiles that could bring something serious to fight this boulder. Stay tuned. Tomorrow's shootout will bring many interesting things ...= |
Thanks for the link. I will be reading it later on. Tonight the shootout will take place and it will be as follows: Esoteric k1 vs Vivaldi (both stand alone) Final touch audio USB (REVIEW HERE ) https://www.audiostream.com/content/lampizator-pacific-balanced-dac-review MacBook laptop Stock powercords on both dacs and into the shunyata Denali 6000t Boulder 2010 with transparent reference powercord (testing this ) connected into dedicated 30a outlet (udioquest nrg outlet) Wireworld platinum 7 xlr from dacs to preamp Wireworld platinum 8 xlr from pre to amps Nordost odin 1 speaker cables Nordost odin 1 pcs on xs300s monos and plugged into dedicated 20a outlets on each amp All the equipment has been playing non-stop since yesterday 11am so when we start tonight at 8ish it will be about 30 hours of constant music in order to have everything cooking Part 2 of the shootout : Aurender w30 will replace the laptop and we will continue to use USB. |
I agree but most reviews also use a laptop if you read carefully. That said , I want to do a baseline shootout and this is exactly what this will be. From here we will go up to a clock or upsampler etc next year. I want to enjoy the ride from the bottom. This is the only way to gauge if something was better or not. |
Shootout just ended. In short, the general feeling was that the esoteric k1 simply had more synergy with my current system. The entire time was spent trying to help the dcs catch up to the esoteric k1. I'm not going to lie to anyone , I expected the vivaldi to easily hand the esoteric its ass. I thought it would just outperform it since it's a stand alone dac and it doesn't have a CD player but I gotta keep it real. Look, I don't have a horse in this race and I own both dacs outright. I can keep either one but the truth is that the more impressive machine with my current set up is the esoteric k1. I present facts and the fact here is if you have money to spend on only one component, the dcs Vivaldi might not be the better buy over the the esoteric k1. It just doesn't really trump it or even gets to distance itself. If you have 15-20k to burn on a dac, the esoteric k1 steals the show and you even have a SACD PLAYER. Another thing, the filters on the dcs are not much help and I read the entire manual. Tried cables, pushing filters , different outlets and yes it got much better than where we started and never enough to best the esoteric. It just simply didn't do that. That said, I'll educate myself a little more on it but I want to be clear on ONE THING: if you are a vivaldi owner and are going to come here and disagree with me then it better be because you have owned the esoteric grandioso k1. If you have zero experience with this esoteric then you have zero idea what you are talking about. Lots of dcs owners out there and also lots of esoteric owners too so I want to be sure both camps understand that with my current system the esoteric seems to be better but I am not done yet with the dcs. I will see what tricks i can come up with to improve its performance without having to spend 10,000 dollars. Anyhow I will post the differences tomorrow. |
Here are my comments after taking the best seat: (using tidal and just flac files ) Dcs presents things a little more closer to you as if you moved up a couple of seats. It can get a tad " in your face" Esoteric has a feeling of sounding very even throughout but it has a little less bottom end. If I were to choose one right this second based on what I’ve heard, I’d go with esoteric. Before I forget , those filters on the dcs are useless. I can't hear a damn difference on those f1- f6 filters. By the way we were using stock powercords but now we are going to try cardas clear audio xl. Stay tuned ! |
@riaa. I agree with what you said above. I didn’t take the time to roll tubes with arc and yes a clock is something that I almost bought for the esoteric the other day. Anyhow, I did hear the esoteric with the w20 aurender last weekend and it was insane how much better it was. As far as the dcs, sure I’ll play with it a little more to see if it can redeem itself but as of right now it has its bags packed. I’m just super shocked to be honest. Esoteric just really made me have a whole new level of respect for it. Granted, this is all about system synergy but I just expected to hear a different outcome. Over the next few days I’ll let the dcs keep playing music and place it on a different shelf , try a nordost odin 1 pc on it etc. I’m going to work with what I’ve got in here. Oh one last thing , I did try the dcs upsampler when I got the dcs dac and it certainly made it better although the network connection was waaaaaay inferior to USB. Even the dealer who installed it here was shocked that the Ethernet connection sounded muffled and obscure in comparison to USB but he heard it with his own ears in here and he agreed with me. I am going to be running a couple of errands today And then I’ll be back to put my comparisons from last night’s shootout. PS. We tried the dcs again as a preamp using the cardas xl PC and it sounded better than the first time I tried it BUT the boulder just really really exposes it. See, if I didn't have the boulder 2010 then I wouldn't know any better but having it here makes it so easy to hear the kinks from other preamps. |
Quick update Tonight we will do round 2 of this shootout by using the aurender w20. Will this be what the dcs needs to distance itself ? Could it be that the dcs is just " the facts " and it is giving me what it is receiving from the laptop even though the esoteric is doing better magic with the laptop.? I have scratched my head about it and it could be that the esoteric is indeed better at cleaning up a piss poor source than dcs is but what will happen if I use an excellent server on both? |
Esoteric will go against dcs again tonight. We will try some Kimber xlr interconnects (top model) and a Wireworld USB cable to see if it’s just a matter of cable matching. I’m excited to see what the outcome will be tonight. I’m also a little disappointed that dcs sells you one tire at a time for your car . They force you to buy all 4 tires or else your car will ride like you’re off-roading. That said this will serve its purpose for some of you going forward. You either buy at least 2 chassis from dcs or go elsewhere. There’s an opportunity for me to bring the esoteric clock as well as the dcs clock. That would be one HUGE test because if the esoteric still bests the dcs with both using their respective clocks then I’d probably be an esoteric man for a long long time. Yes I want to try msb but I’m not going to do so unless I locate a piece that makes sense for me. If I went to buy a msb dac for what dealers are asking for it and It ended up not besting my esoteric then think of the huge loss id take to sell that msb. It’s a pretty expensive trial that I’m not willing to endure. I need to be wise on what to buy and where or else I'd be sleeping outside with the dog in no time. |
ok so last night we did the 2nd shootout between DCS Vivaldi and Esoteric Grandioso K1 using the W20 Aurender music server. Here is what i gathered: - Vivaldi has more resolution - Vivaldi seems to have a tad more bass while remaining tight and controlled - when cranking up the system to loud levels, the vivaldi makes me cringe a little during certain songs which does not seem to affect me when using the Esoteric - The esoteric sounds more "rounded" on the highs yielding less fatigue at just about any volume level - Soundstage size and depth is about the same on both - i found the esoteric a tad more musical with less of the DCS "in your face " presentation if i were to describe the DCS, i’d say " high resolution" and for the Esoteric K1 " very musical" Of course, and as expected, we had several people here that had different opinions. Some said that the esoteric and dcs were not really far apart while others said the DCS was far better than the Esoteric based on what they heard here. Anyhow, we did an "in between" shootout of the DCS vs Boulder 2010 as a preamp, but we used a very expensive powercord on the DCS (i forget the brand, but this cable retails for $20,000 and it weights about 45 lbs) and here are the comments from people: - DCS has more immediacy, coherence, and organic feeling than using the boulder 2010 (please remember we were using a $20,000 power cord on the DCS for this exercise) - Boulder 2010 has a much bigger soundstage with more depth, height, perhaps even more control on the low frequencies - Boulder 2010 is "inflating" the soundstage which makes it less coherent than the DCS which taints the presentation - One person responded to the comment above about the boulder 2010 "inflating the sound" by saying to the person above: " no disrespect to your opinion with the "inflating comment" but you really need to get out more often and go to live events. Live events, especially those that are in actual arenas, auditoriums or venues HAVE a big sound so the boulder is trying to recreate this effect by expanding the soundstage rather than keeping everything more confined which is what the DCS is doing plus the boulder has more dynamics which the DCS could not match. The boulder is trying to remove the walls here and trying to "take you there". So after everything was said and done, i stayed listening some more on my own and noticed that the DCS for some reason "bites" my ears a little when playing at relatively loud volumes so i decided to dig in my cable bin and found a Wireworld Starlight 7 USB which is way cheaper than the FTA USB cable we used and as soon as i did that the slight edginess i was getting was totally gone. Of course, some other good qualities of the presentation were diminished as well, but this gave me food for thought which is that i might want to revisit the Wireworld USB Platinum 7 (or the the new Platinum 8 USB that will release next month) and see if this actually is what i have been needing to do on the DCS? This machine (or perhaps my entire rig) is quite transparent. i was actually surprised at the massive change the system had by just swapping from the FTA USB and going to the Wireworld Starlight 7 USB. AS I HAD STATED BEFORE, i am going to keep playing with the DCS and probably begin to try all sorts of USB cables. Yes, i will also use these with the Esoteric and do my own personal shootouts. After living with both for a few days or weeks and actually having enough "seat time" with both and taking some other financial things into consideration, i will make a determination as to which unit will be the one i want to keep and which one i will sell. i can't keep both here so one will need to go at some point. Until that day comes, i will keep playing and having fun and on to the next ! |
I am in talks to possibly bring the upsampler back here and see where this takes me. It pains me accept this but my mind has begun to contemplate the possibility of selling my boulder 2010 which by the way , boulder has told me it is THE ONLY black boulder 2010 that they ever built which cost a 25% upcharge and 4 months of extra work on the metal plus silicone treatment the chassis has to not allow it to change color overtime. Ugh. I am mentally trying to block that idea. I’m really really trying not to sell it. Best solid state preamp I’ve owned by miles. One last thing, I'm either really crazy or still a little hung over but I am starting to feel like the dcs has made a drastic change over the last 24 hours in terms of sound and I gotta believe the cheap Wireworld USB is not capable of making it sound so good as it has been today. I'm attributing it to the amount of playback time I've thrown at it since Thursday. |
Up next: As you know I am in tweaking mode so I will be doing a shootout of the new Wireworld starlight 8 USB vs platinum 7. I am probably going to be going all out and do a shootout of the nordost odin 1 vs Odin 2 powercord on the dac in the next few weeks. Will the Odin 2 live up to the hype ? Stay tuned |
Cardas clear audio and dcs seems to be a match. I am liking a lot what I’m hearing. Someone said for me to try clear audio beyond xlr. Hmmm. Anyhow, I feel as if the cardas clear audio has added musicality to the dcs' somewhat analytical presentation. It made it more relaxed while still unfolding all the resolution it has. Indeed , this is starting to become very interesting and a lot of fun. |
You don’t seem to allow me to try with my own equipment what I want to do huh ? I said it above that I’m going to be tweaking. Was I not clear when I said I want to sit with the DCS dac and play with cables, etc and see what it does ? This is exactly what I am doing and will be doing. Not sure where I wrote that it is better than boulder 2010 ?? I don’t see where i implied that ? All I have noticed is that it has turned around from where it started. Does this mean it is a better preamp ? I’ve been playing with the dac as a preamp since Sunday and I switched to the boulder today. There’s a great deal of clarity that the dac captures along with a tremendous amount of resolution. It is outstanding at low to moderate volume levels but I still get my ears to fatigue. I can’t explain tbe effect that it has on me even with cardas xlr which aren’t exactly bright cables. Could it be the "too much of a good thing " effect? I have made it sound better and better for sure but I still can’t capture the same level of musicality of the boulder. Soundstage is bigger with the boulder along with more forceful imaging. It is as if with the dac you have a fingernail that you clipped and is still sharp enough to scratch you but when you add the boulder , it is as if you are filing the sharp edges of this nail to smooth it out. The class a design of the boulder passes all the resolution but it rounds off the edges when it needs to. This allows for extended listening sessions because you don’t feel as if your ears get tired. You still get resolution and slam. When I use the dac as a preamp and let’s say a dynamic passage starts , I reach for the remote in order to turn it down a little and then turn it up again when the song mellows out , but this isn’t what I do with the boulder. It is all about preferences with this gear. If your speakers are warm then you are better off with the dac directly into the amps. If you value resolution between your speakers and don't care for a large sound but rather just a normal size soundfield with a ton of detail then use the dac. But if you value a massive soundstage, control, rounded edges , muscularity, and the feeling that you are "there" as well as your speakers disappearing then go with the boulder. |
I have been saying this to many people already: if you move out of the luxman 900u, make sure you have AT LEAST another 10k on top to buy an amp that edges it out. From all the amps I’ve owned , it is still the best amp under 15k. You’d need to be looking at amps that start at 25k in order to slowly begin to improve on the luxman. Again , unless you’re ready to spend that money then don't bother. |
Right now the only USB cables I've used are Wireworld starlight 7, starlight 8 , Platinum 7, FTA (FULL TIME AUDIO) They all present things differently. At times I find the Wireworld spot on with certain music and then a little rolled off with other music. The FTA is more detailed but if your front end is already detailed then it might not be a good match. I am still contemplating buying nordost Odin 2 PC but I am also thinking of getting the upsampler for the Vivaldi. I also haven't forgotten about the music server. I'm not rushing right now so I need to slowly decide what I need to do next. Hell, theres already a proposition that a involves my focal scala evo for another big speaker (won't mention it yet since it's just a conversation at this point ) |
Ok so today i had a chance to audition in my own home the DCS Clock, Upsampler, Nordost odin 2 Pc and speaker cables. First thing we did was to connect the odin 2 pc on the DCS dac and everything else remained the same: Odin 2 pc: More tactful bass with greater separation. i also felt as if it added more focus with less smear than the Shunyata Alpha NR i was using. I did not compare it to the Odin 1 pc i own because those are connected to my pass labs monos. Up next: we went back to the Shunyata Alpha NR on the dac and swapped my odin 1 speaker cables for the Odin 2 speaker cables: Odin 2 speaker cables: with only 10-20 hours of use, these are FAR FAR BUT I MEAN FAR better than my Odin 1 speaker cables. I believe Nordost heard all customer feedback when it comes to their Odin 1 speaker cables which was that they can be somewhat bright at times, but they somehow managed to keep all the resolution and squeezed out all brightness from this Odin 2. The space between the instruments went from being inches apart to now being a foot or more. Better bass impact, and just this feeling of coherence. It felt as if my speakers were more uniform and more like an electrostatic. Overall, this is the best speaker cable i have heard in my set up. Next, we began to use the upsampler, but we left the Nordost Odin 2 speaker cables in place. Here is what i heard: DCS Upsampler: I heard a HUGE IMPROVEMENT at all levels. I was able to crank music to very loud levels and now the DAC did not have "digital artifacts". I never cringed or heard any hint of brightness at all. It was as if it became more analog and i was listening to something else besides digital music. The upsampler made ALL RECORDINGS sound beautiful. i felt like it brought a ton of information towards the center, sides, top and bottom and served them to you on a platter. i was actually shocked at the improvement presented. Up next: we unplugged the upsampler and connected the clock with just the dac and everything else the same: DCS CLOCK: The sound improved for the better. Things sounded more accurate, instruments had more palpable feelings and there was less "grain" felt in the music. That said, this was NOT as good as the improvement the upsampler brought. The upsampler simply took things to a whole other level. Towards the end, we left the upsampler plugged in and went back to my nordost odin 1 speaker cables. This was shocking HOW MUCH music had left my system when i went back to my Odin 1. It sounded more "muffled" in comparison. I am still shocked how amazing those Odin 2 speaker cables are. They just pull you into the music and just really open up your system to an entire new level. I can’t believe it, but yes i am with my mouth open with those cables. I also want to say that the Nordost odin 2 powercord DID NOT make a bigger improvement than the nordost odin 2 speaker cable made by itself. However, Odin 1 power cords seem to have more of an impact in sound than the Odin 1 speaker cables, but now the tables have turned for the Odin 2 series. I really enjoyed every single thing i heard and now that my system is back to "normal" i find myself scratching my head and thinking what just happened here. I will need to figure out how to move up to those Odin 2 speaker cables down the road. When those speaker cables left my room i felt like they took the entire soul of my system with them too. |
This morning i have been listening to the boulder 2010 and DCS Vivaldi, but i have added the ALPHA NR SHUNYATA PC and Cardas Clear Audio XLR. Once again, the Boulder 2010 took command of the speakers with a tremendous amount of fullness and control throughout the entire frequency range. It just totally grabs the amps and controls them like if they were puppets. The sheer musicality is intoxicating. That said, the DCS dac completely morphed with the cables i added. It now has more musicality, delicacy, tonality than before. That said, it is not as musical as the boulder is with any source you connect to it. So i think i have identified that both components have a sweetspot: Boulder 2010: If you have hard to drive speakers and your amplifiers ARE NOT exactly at the top of the tier groups such as constellation centaur, Pass labs xs300s, Momentum m400s, etc then YOU NEED this preamp. It will make a decent amplifier sound MUCH MUCH BETTER. If you bring your friends over and want them to be like HOLY SH!T then just crank up the volume and that will be it. DCS Vivaldi (as preamp): It is ultra high resolution, unforgiving at times, sounds amazing at low - moderate volumes, but it requires an amplifier’s right hand to help it deliver a more musical presentation. Think of Class A Design, Sweet sounding amps such as constellation, Luxman, etc. This piece by itself won’t do the trick just like the boulder 2010 would. This Dac needs your cooperation with better cables, amps, speaker cables in order to really reward you. If you are a sucker for low volume detail, this would do the trick as a preamp as long as you invest more money in other parts of your system. Right now, it is decision time for me. i don’t know if i will move in the direction of the full DCS set up (minus cd player) and just work with other cables in order to create magic at low to moderate volume levels (which by the way there is no guarantee i will achieve it) or if i want to just keep being impressed with the boulder by putting the pedal to the metal when i listen to music through it. Time will tell ... |
No panic here. There’s never panic when you own something outright and knowing you have plan B in the event that it doesn’t work out. I am always prepared when I venture into new components. Also, let’s not forget that we are still talking about Esoteric and DCS which are highly regarded. I’d be in panic mode if I weren’t with them though :) but having them puts me at ease. Do you see any listed here ? Nope.. market is dry meaning someone is out there fishing for either one. It isn’t rocket science. Both components fly the moment they show up on the used market. They are just very desired by both camps. At this level , it’s not about buying audio but rather investing in audio. You don’t buy stock that nobody buys. You stick to Apple, Disney , Microsoft stock, etc and stay away from the small timers. However , if there’s deep DEEP pockets then sure you can buy any weird name brands out there and not worry that you’ll take a "Mike Tyson " punch in the gut when you sell. You have any idea how many people have told me to buy things here before ? Think Rane, GT Audio, that other 3k preamp I was told to buy , etc etc. The messed up part about this is that all these recommendations are often times by those who haven’t owned any of these and so they want me to buy , spend my money and give people my input so they know if it sinks or swims. I can’t buy everything that is recommended but I would be glad to send a shipping label to anyone who preaches anything at all so they can send me that component they believe in so I can review it ? How's that ? |
@riaa. Are you somewhat in agreement with what I said above about the fact that it's about picking your poison? I don't argue that this preamp being spoken about here might be an excellent amp for the money but to your earlier point, if you can't put it through the motions because you blast ac/dc , Ozzy, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc then ultimate transparency may not be what is important in this case. |
I am uploading a quick video so you can all tell me if there is an improvement in sound using the new mic. Please note that this is now being recorded using my iPad since the external mic is only iOS compatible. Let me know if it is or it isn’t worth the $150. I can still return it. I am trying to get you all closer to what I am hearing. |