36 hours continuous playtime :
The room is toasty but It really isn't bad. Here are my new findings:
- the bass feels visceral as if someone is kicking the chair you sit on.
- imaging imaging is perhaps the best I've ever heard.
Right now I feel as if something is missing but I don't think it is the amps. I think i have mismatch somewhere and I am totally looking forward to elevating the performance of these amps.
Pass labs told me yesterday that I should try interconnects , speaker cables and leave power cords for last because with their xs series the powercords don't quite make a huge impact due to their design and their external power supply.
They also advised against speaker cables that have built in boxes because these amps have fried those boxes due to their huge current. Big no no.
So where's my head at? I will try the ref6 today and then I am sure I'll begin to chase the pass labs xs preamp or another ref10. Upon my research, it appears that it is a pretty split decision as far as which preamp is the better match. Some have gone from the xs to the ref10 and vice versa.
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Look ive owned just about every current pass labs amp. If you all circle back to my previous statements, you’ll see I didn’t like pass labs but I also very clear about the xs pass amps. The xs 300 is s cost no object amp. It is the best amp ever made by Nelson Pass. If you think just because you’ve heard other pass amps that you know what the xs300 sounds like then let me tell you that your beyond wrong. This is NOTHING like the rest of the pass amps. 112 transistors per channel, external ps supply and crazy heat too. It’s something special without a doubt. Yes I also love the hell out the huge size too.
If you are any of the following then this is NOT the amp for you:
- you complain about the electric bill- you complain about heat
- you cry about lifting heavy weights
- you hate big engines , big cars
- you care about bad mpg
If you fall in any of the above, don't get a pass labs xs300. You'll hate it.
If you are any of these then this amp will rock your world :
- you love huge torque and horsepower and don't give a damn about bad gas mileage
- you don't care to turn wrenches and don't care to fix engines
- you love big old muscle cars
-you appreciate raw power, brute Force
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I just plugged in the McIntosh mc2600 and the ref6. I need them both turned on for 2 hours before they go to battle. I briefly heard the mc2600 but it was cold and I did not like it at all. Maybe in 2 hours it will sound better but it did not sound better than the Christine.
I get the feeling that the xs300s don't need help from a tube preamp. I think they already do a great job at sounding like tubes so adding more tube sound in the preamp doesn't seem to help it. However these are completely cold tube preamps.
Lastly, I don't think I like silver interconnects with the pass amps. They add a little too much detail that isn't really needed. It almost overwhelms you.
I'll update this in about 2 hours. The Christine preamp is no joke! |
Viber ,
The xs300 are the tightest amps I've heard through my focals. Incredible bass control and the most massive soundstage. This is on a whole different level. It's like an amplifier on steroids. |
The xs300 and Merrill 118s couldn't be more different. It's like comparing orange juice vs soda.
The Merrill 118s have incredible speed , control and dont really get in the way. The xs300 have a bigger soundstage , emotion, romance but they have their on flavor. The 118s best the xs300 in speed but lose when it comes to decay.
It's a very hard comparison that I need to think about a little more. |
Pictures have been posted. Take a look ! |
Last night I fired up the ref6 for 2 hours before I did any critical listening and the presentation was very very good. It’s actually very interesting to see how the xs300s let you hear the changes in your front end. For instance, I don’t think I’ll do anymore silver interconnects and I won’t do Odin 1 on the preamp but just the dac. With the focal Scala Evo you’ll realize how revealing the tweeter is and that you don’t need to add anymore detail by adding silver cables. I actually preferred using the Merrill powercord on the ref6 yesterday and Merrill interconnects throughout than using silver. That said , with electrostatics I found the opposite to be the best match. They glow with more detail when adding silver. System matching is KEY at this level but the one thing I am starting to realize is that the pass xs300 don’t quite need crazy expensive cables to impress. |
Mayor,
Sound is subjective and I find the ref6 great for the money. However , the Christine is more transparent and has more "facts" in tbe music. It's fast and dynamic and in my book it is a giant killer. That said the ref6 is special in its own right. It has tons of air, soundstage size is great and good musicality but it also introduced harmonic noise from the tubes which isn't a bad thing but you certainly will not be hearing every single minute detail from your recordings. Both are excellent preamps but it's all about what you want to accomplish.
I am right now thinking of the soulution 720 or the 520 based on what I was recommended today. Word on that street is that this preamp is a microscope. |
Musical/smooth/sweet- amp you can’t change its dna no matter what other components you buy. It will always sound this way. You can use a lamp cord as a powercord and it will still sound the same.
As far as coda Amplifiers: not on my radar so far but it doesn’t mean it won’t be.
900u amplifier: I prefer it over the 350.8 or 250.8. Sounds more refined to me. |
Nobody would use a lamp cord with a luxman 900u. It was a figurative speech meant to simply show how strong I feel about the DNA of sweet sounding amplifiers... |
I've said this before. The xs pass amps are not the the same as the other amps in terms of sound. They have incredible sonics and fullness. The only bad thing right now is the heat and the space they take.
I am planning my next move which will be a preamp. The ref6 sounds great but I feel as if the amps have more to show me but they can't because I have limitations elsewhere in my system.
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I've thought about that one |
Thanks guys. I plan to keep playing with speaker placement but I did say that I wasn't doing this until the speakers have more hours on them. I think I have around 400 hours on them right now and I was told I need 1,000 hours. |
Yes it is leaning towards the sweet side . The dynamic plinius is the sb301. |
thanks Faxer. i agree with what is said on that article and wish i could hear those speakers in my room with my xs300s.
On a different note, about one hour ago i plugged in the Shunyata Denali 6000t in my system and proceeded to connect the Ref 6 and Esoteric K1 dac to it using Nordost Odin 1 powercords on both components and what i have learned is indeed incredible. I will keep it short and brief, but basically my focal scala evos taught me a big lesson today which is that IF my power is dirty or corrupted in any shape or form then their tweeter will not be as refined as i need it to be. I just drove myself crazy for the past 7 days trying to dial in the tweeter of this speaker and as soon as i used the Shunyata Denali, the soundstage got HUGE, the bass tighter, the clarity improved tremendously and the noise floor is beyond low. i am now able to hear my XS300S to the fullest and to ear-shattering levels with no fatigue. I am beyond floored at the improvement this made in my system, but it is also a lesson learned for me that the higher up the ladder you go in this hobby, the more attention to detail you need in order to hear EVERYTHING you are putting in it.
I wish some of you could hear what i am hearing here because i am telling you that it is INCREDIBLE. The room was pressurized and incredibly loud with the most pleasant sound i have heard with these speakers. i am in disbelief to say the least.
Mind you, i am "only" using a ref 6 preamp with these amps and i am floored so i can only imagine what will happen once i go with the xs preamp, solution 720, constellation altair 2? who knows guys, but what a huge improvement. My head is literally spinning from the loudness i was listening at but never felt any fatigue at all through the entire session.
I will be VERY HONEST, i was even having my doubts about these amps even though i have only had them for 4 days, but i guess now i know WHAT they have been trying to tell me over the past few days when i felt like something was "missing" and i couldn’t put my finger on it. I realize that the noise i had coming in was also being put in front of me for my ears to hear and yet i couldn’t realize that this was the issue. The funny thing about these amps is that even though they are voiced to sound a certain way, they STILL are crazy transparent to the rest of your equipment and your power sources. |
Only heard one accuphase product. I wasn't floored by it. |
If you all are wondering what to build next and want to never worry about whether an amp will work or if it will be enough to drive your next speaker or if it’s a match or not etc ...
Grab a pair of pass labs xs300 and TRUST ME it can easily be the last amp you own for at least the next 5-10 years.
This is going to be shocking news for A LOT OF YOU but I am announcing that the pass labs xs300 , today, with my current set of components, is THE BEST POWER AMPLIFIER i have ever owned and based on the spreadsheet I keep, it is amplifier # 400. I don’t know if there’s something better or not but if it exists then I haven’t owned it.
Yes it runs hot, yes your electric bill will go up, yes it takes up a lot of space and you can squash your fingers with it or crack your head open if you trip and fall over it but what the hell.. no amplifier is perfect and to me this is as perfect as it gets.
Pass labs xs300 = #1 on my list of amplifiers |
Given my track record, your statement above makes total sense. That said, i have already "pretended" to sell these amps and i find myself asking the following question: where do i go from here? This is the same question i have been asked by dealer friends, acquaintances , etc. The truth is that i wouldn’t know where to go from where. I have my doubts that other amplifiers can come in here and beat these amps, but rather just present things differently. i love what these amps do and how they serve "food on my plate". That said, i HAVE NEVER heard another pass labs sound this full bodied, nuanced and with the large sense of space that these are giving me.
However, this does not mean i won’t bring more amps (the show must go on), but those future purchases will be measured against these amps and although it will be an unfair thing to do (unless those future amps are in the same ballpark price wise) , it will be a nice opportunity to see how far new amplifiers have come. Keep in mind, these xs300 amps were released back in 2013 and are still manufactured. Speaking to pass labs yesterday was very interesting because they said there is zero plans to replace these xs300s because they spent close to a million dollars designing the xs300s. It is extremely hard to go back to the drawing board and do this all over again when only 6 years have passed in which not much has changed in terms of amplifier (class a specifically ) technology.
does anyone want to send in their amp to be measured against these xs300s ? i would be more than happy to give you a pure, unbiased opinion on your current amplification :)
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Not really. I've had amplifiers that barely let you hear a difference when you make changes. I've also had components where I don't really hear any difference by using expensive powercords. The biggest changes occur when your equipment is at a high level. I remember trying a nordost odin 1 on a cheap Sony integrated and it didn't make any difference at all. Zero changes in sound. |
The ref6 is gone. I am now simply using the McIntosh mc2600 as a back up preamp while I begin to find a preamp that I feel would elevate what the ref 6 was doing. My options could be :
Boulder 2010
Ref10
Constellation virgo 3
Soulution 720 or 725
Dan progression preamp
All those above are potential preamps but nothing has been decided upon. The boulder 2010 is probably the one that really really has my attention and is my number 1 choice but we shall see if the deal goes through.
I can say that my xs300s are pretty much speaking to me in regards to my front end and I need to elevate my preamplifier and potentially even go up the ladder in terms of my source. |
Out of the system. I need to see what happens with these amps as I move up the ladder in terms of preamplification. |
Just woke up and read this final part of the pass labs xa200.8 review. I REALLY liked how real he was when it comes to break in time, using personal recordings rather than always Audiophile stuff and also calling out manufacturers at shows for not letting him play his music for as long as he wanted. This is one of the very few reviews that really reach out and touch me because he tells it like it is. Kudos to this reviewer: https://www.dagogo.com/pass-laboratories-xa200-8-pure-class-monoblock-amplifiers-review-part-3-concl... |
I have established quite an extensive network with many dealers that I constantly do business with. Sometimes I may occasionally buy here but 80 percent of what I buy is not done here or through any website. Some dealers can't list items here because they cant afford to lose a line but they still need product off their floor. There's a HUUUUUGE amount of product sitting on the floor that can't be advertised and that is essentially what I end up buying and reviewing. In regards to the xs300s, yes there has only been 2 pairs listed in the last 6 years so this isn't an amp that shows up on the used market. Hell, I already have offers on the table for this amp ever since I posted pictures and I haven't listed anything nor did I say I want to sell it. I had a buddy call Reno hifi and ask their price on these amps and they said $65,000 for a demo pair and they only have one pair which they can't list because pass labs won't allow ANY listings of their xs 300.
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Its been a long time since I’ve heard the 250.8 but i recall it being musical and smooth. As far as how close to the xs300? I think that’s really not a fair comparison because they are just 2 different extremes in terms of price and parts/design. The x series is more of the competition to its sibling the xa series and not the xs.
The x series has better bass than the xa series but it doesn’t best the highs of the xa series.
The xs series has everything that both models do good but on steroids. The xs series sounds very different but as I stated before, the xs design isn’t the design for the person who’s concerned with heat or with the electric bill. This amp will hand you a "bill" at the end of the month for its service.
The 250.8 is great but I would say the simaudio 860a is probably what id choose at this price point, but that’s my opinion.
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I would like to locate a xs preamp but it will take time. The list above are the ones that are readily available to me. |
Both presentations were exactly at 83db.
YouTube comments are quite interesting! |
Gt audio impressed me this year at axpona. It was easily better than most of the crazy stuff that was there. Make no mistake that this speaker is on my radar and if the stars align for me, it might be in my room sometime in the future. |
Thanks for the props blumartini. I try to be as objective as possible with this hobby but it isn't easy at times because you can rub people off the wrong way at times. One side of me wants to be as raw as possible with everything i've owned but it isn't as easy as it seems. There are only a handful of people whose ears I trust just like only handful of you trust mine.
Today I spoke to someone who contributes to my thread and who wanted my honest advice without being biased. I essentially recommended him luxman 900u amp and preamp which I'm sure he will enjoy.
It is very satisfying to me to steer people into equipment that I feel is enjoyable and a pleasure to listen to and that they can enjoy for quite sometime which is something I clearly don't do.
That said, 2019 is almost over and I am thankful that this year brought me my own dedicated room. What do I see for my system in 2020? I see quite a few changes which I will keep a secret for now. If you are wondering whether I'll go back up the ladder in terms of speakers north of $50,000, I probably won't go there again. It's a tough speaker world when it comes to the heavy hitters and quite frankly i have to sell these at some point in order to finance my next move but guess what ? It is very hard to do so. I'm just a regular guy and dealers will always have the upper hand in selling items at high price points because they can finance , take a credit card , take trades , etc etc and they deserve to have it. this has pretty much made me hit the brakes and focus on items that are a little more "normal" in terms of price.
More to come on this topic. |
It's up and running.That set up doesn't get touched other than to watch a movie. |
Remember , I gotta move some of my stuff in order to make room or else id have a crowded room with no space to listen.
Right now I am looking into the ayon spheris 3 preamp. That thing has got my attention. |
@stereopup
I am using the McIntosh mx160 and yes I was selling it but didn't have any luck so I'll probably list it again. |
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I am going to go on the record and say that Magnepan is easily one of the best purchases i have made this year. I am right now simply without words to be able to articulate what i am hearing. All i can say is that this tall, wide and dipole design works amazing in my room. I am really blown away in every possible way. I feel like i am doing nearfield listening regardless of how far the speakers are and i LOVE the smoothness, lack of brightness, and lively feeling.
I am so looking forward to getting my Merrill Element 118s here since the Merrill Preamp (Christine) is here now. I suspect this Merrill/Magnepan/DCS/Nordost Odin combination will send me into shock. This is just a gut feeing at this time, but 9 times out of 10 when i get this feeling it usually ends up being that way.
More surprises to come guys... That is all i can say for now. |
Yep....and just wait until I share more news ....lol all in due time..:) |
No matter how much room correction you apply, it won't give you the huge soundstage and imaging of a well designed component. I have tbe McIntosh c2600 preamp and it gets killed by the ref6 in just about every area. |
Room correction is to help room issues but it doesn't do anything for the soundstage width and height. It equalizes the sound to compensate for a poor room. |
Yes it is. That's the best integrated I've ever owned. |
I just didn't think it would appeal to me aesthetically speaking. I didn't want to spend anymore money on the room either. That said, my room will go through changes overtime.
I also think the room sounds very good and dead quiet. Surprisingly, my focals have sparkle that the room needs and yesterday I tried my c4 platinums and noticed that the speakers might already be too warm for my taste since my ears are now tuned for the focal tweeter.
I might do another speaker brand next year but for now I want to keep learning these focals. They have plenty of oomph and have far better imaging than my c4 platinums.
I am itching to bring some revel salon 2s :) |
@mr_gray: ARC6SE/MERRIL AUDIO: - musical
- engaging
- fast (thanks to merrill amps)
- great bass
- beautiful mids
Mephisto/Pandora: - Ultra revealing
- Neutral -nothing but facts
- Tsunami-sized soundstage
- AK47 attack
- Grenade -launcher-like explosiveness
- Huge dynamics
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Magnepan: Speed, a race car. Probably one, if not the fastest sounding speaker I have ever owned.
It almost feels as if you gave your music a shot of redbull. As I continue to dig deeper and deeper into this speaker, I keep being floored and want to keep listening to track after track and can't stop. Zero fatigue with nordost in the entire system . |
Once again , NO EQ opens up your soundstage , no eq, adds more height or depth or provides more holographic imaging. That's something that only a well designed Component can do. The best 5,000 dollars I've spent is the shunyata Denali. |
Denali v2. I have not plugged in my amps because I don't want to starve them for power. I don't know yet if it can sustain it but I'll try it later next week. |
One thing I will add is that magnepan might not be the right speaker to review Amplifiers with. It needs tons of current and it won’t give smaller amplifiers a chance to be heard. It is outstanding if the goal is to review "big boy " amplifiers. You could never review a pass xa25, single luxman 900u, pass xa60.8, etc, with this type of speaker. |
One thing I think a lot of people need to realize (unless I am wrong ) is that most people who own maggies (even at shows) run amps such as bryston, Sanders, pass labs, etc, etc and never amps such as gryphon, Momentum, constellation and let's not even talk about nordost Odin 1 cables , preamps of the caliber of momentum HD. The truth is most magnepan owners (again, MOST OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM) don't spend big money on top amps and preamps. My approach with this speaker will be totally different since I plan to do what most don't do which is to use some of the best components to go with it. So far, I am quite thrilled with what I am hearing.
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Could also be youtube settings....I know that not everyone realizes there are youtube settings... |
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All-
I've finalized the deal on the boulder 2010 preamp I will hopefully have it next Tuesday
It should be very interesting to say the least. I'll keep you guys posted.
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Up next :
Boulder 2010 preamp
Pass labs xs300
Esoteric k1 dac
Nordost odin 1 speaker cables
Merrill interconnects
Nordost odin1 powercord on the dac
Cardas xl powercords on the amps
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I'm not aware that some people are telling others to stay away from here because of certain individuals. It's the first time this is being brought to my attention and I want to say once again that I need all of you to contribute here in order to keep this thread alive. |
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