BINGO!
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab
Correct. The ref6 is a little more "aggressive" sounding than the ref10. I also wanted to share with you all that the new generation of amplifiers coming out of audio research are getting voiced with the ref6 and not the ref10. Audio research is very secretive with new products and I know they have a 50th anniversary preamp coming out next year but they will deny it all day long. The ref6 is pretty much their "lab rat" when it comes to preamps. |
Viber I can’t say a 50k MSRP Amplifier ranks high on the value category. I mean, thats like saying a Lamborghini Huracan is big bang for the buck because it is a far better car than the Corvette. Big bang for the buck, FOR ME, is something that performs far better than the price reflects and while still remaining relatively"affordable". I’ll give you a perfect example, HOW MANY PEOPLE here keep mentioning that there is a Colosseum listed for 29k ? Do you see a line of people trying to buy it ? I rated it an 86 and it is the best amp I have reviewed so far (reviewed meaning using the ratings ) So why is it still there ? Why is it still listed ? Yes , even discounted? Because the RAW TRUTH is that most people HERE , who read this, don’t want or don’t have 29k laying around to burn on an amp. THAT IS THE TRUTH. and YES I can guarantee that the coliseum would smoke 90% of the amplifiers that people who read this thread currently own. So what’s stopping them from buying it ? Why aren’t you replacing your bryston with the Gryphon? Trust me your bryston can’t come close to the Gryphon. I don’t care how many bryston amps you put in front of it or what model you choose. I wouldn’t be shocked if the new gryphon essence is the number one amp under 22k. |
Ok guys, I’ve uploaded a panoramic picture of the room in order to share with you all my blood sweat and tears. (Remember this was a 2 car garage) It has been quite a journey but now I am almost done with it. I’ve treated the whole room, had dedicated 20a and 30a outlets installed, double sided acoustic drywall, and many many other things that I will list later on. With that said, the first shootout will take place very soon. We will see the full merill set up (118s, christine and all the Merrill cables) vs audio research 160s and ref6 preamp with nordost Odin 1 speaker cables and wireworld interconnects. It is about to get serious :) |
After reading the comments on my youtube, i can say that about 65-70% of the votes are leaning towards Odin 1 speaker cable. The 30-35% that prefers the Wireworld could be due to the "warmer " presentation that could leave to longer listening sessions for some. One thing i wanted to call out, sometimes during my videos i know i might sound redundant, BUT you all need to keep into perspective that NOT EVERYONE who follows me is at the same level. I want to hit the ground running, but that is not fair for those who are behind. For instance, here are some questions i get: -What components are playing?? (i repeat myself on each video) -I prefer cable 1, oh no i went back to listening and now i prefer cable 2 -How do you use your subs with the wilson sasha? ( i never said i use subs) There are all sorts of subscribers that join and are also trying to learn so this is no different that when you are in a classroom and the teacher needs to give some students a chance to finish their classroom exercise even though the rest of the classroom is done. Anyhow, tonight i hope to unveil my new speaker (no music) and towards the end of the week is part 2 of " the best amplifiers 20k and under" that i have ever owned |
As far as the positioning of the speakers, they are about 5 feet away from the rear wall and 2.5 to 3ft from the side walls. I am about 10 feet away from them and they are just about 10 feet apart. Their position will change I am sure but for now that is what I think sounds best with them. As far as amplifiers, we will have to wait and see what will happen. I can’t really do much testing because they’re relatively new speakers. That said, those of you who have questioned the scala evo’s bass capabilities can rest assured that it is mind blowing to the point that you might need to move them away from any walls. Also, the better the amp as far as bass control , the less boomy or bloated effect you will get. Tubes are sounding very incredible right now. We shall see what the Merrill 118s will do with a tube preamp. I am getting a little ear fatigue over long term listening sessions but again there is just too many variables right now such as new speakers, new amp , preamp etc. And I also dont know if the nordost cables are actually the right cables for these speakers. I will be trying Merrill's own cables too to see what happens. I do remember the sopra 3s tweeter being a little smoother but they dont share the same tweeter and I think I was using wireworld platinum 7 speaker cables too. I am also highly contemplating the MSB premier dac at some point but not until I have played with all my current variables first. |
Merril 118s with ref6 listening impressions to come soon. The only thing I'll share with you all is that changing speakers almost forces a complete system overhaul unless you are buying speakers within the same family. What sounded good before with my other speakers doesn't seem to be creating the same effect anymore with focal. That said, tubes are IMPRESSIVE with focal. Will the Merrill set up sing with focals ? We shall see... |
Also, I did not say the Gryphon is a great bang for the buck because you guys are thinking of "the one" gryphon listed as a great bang for the buck but this is just a special circumstance and not the usual scenario That said, and my question to you is WHY aren’t you buying it ? I’m specifically asking Kren or Viber. I highly doubt either one has a better amp than the Coliseum. This can easily be proven by sending me your amps and I will pay shipping plus insurance both ways so I can do a shootout against the Gryphon. Fair enough? |
Preliminary impressions: Full Merrill set up: Thunderous bass control Huge sound Gobbs of detail that is typically buried in other systems Fast paced with zero sluggishness Excellent imaging and separation Full arc set up: Musical Sweet and engaging Big soundstage The best bass control i remember hearing from s tube amp/preamp This new amp has such a low floor noise that allows it to extract more detail than other tube amps I’ve owned. Please note: the amp only has about 5 hours of total playtime so it’s nowhere near its break in point. Still has much more to go before it hits its stride. I will try triode mode soon to see if it will be a better presentation than linear. Right now I can’t quite decide which set up I prefer because they both do things so amazingly. It is really about preference at this price point. Tubes will always engage you and keep you seated but there’s also the maintenance part and noise being introduced as tubes age. With the Merrill there’s no maintenance, no drama and it always plays as it should because you can’t turn it off at all. It also digs deeper in the music which tubes don’t do. Think about it like this: tubes will give you a high level summary of your company’s finances which focuses only on profits and not so much on losses or trouble areas. The Merrill will give you a detailed breakdown of it with actual facts as if you are the CFO of your company; it brings out all of the financial statements, balance sheets, etc with complete honesty so you can see the state of your finances. It won’t hide if you aren’t doing too well financially speaking and will tell you where your you’re bleeding money from. This is pretty much the best way I can describe it. |
@ skipping Thanks. It's indeed a very honest set up which won't lie to you at all but there's a preconceived idea of what class D is all about and that hurts it because if something doesn't sell due to this then it makes manufacturers hit the brskes. This in turn halts innovation in this arena. As far as the ref6, I will try it with the Merrill for sure. I am very excited to do so. Remember what I said, this is ALL ABOUT what YOU PREFER and there's really NOTHING out there that is perfect. The term "perfection" is subjective and it always comes with imperfections no matter what it is. I'm grateful to have both set ups here and be able to pick them apart. Having owned some of the best amps out there, I urge you all to begin to open up your mind and explore any class D of your choosing. I'm telling you all, it's really really coming soo close to some of the best amps out there. |
Some people love to hear what was originally recorded and that means the Merrill Christine. I’m not going to lie, there’s material out there where the christine will give you a level of performance that the ref 6 can’t touch. I also heard far greater dynamic swings with the christine. For instance, sometimes I switch songs and the next song explodes with more volume the christine because it was recorded at a higher volume but when I do this same exercise using the ref6, I don’t really hear the same explosiveness when switching the same songs. It feels as if someone turned on the "late night mode" on the surround processor to keep action scenes under control late at night. |
Ref 6 with Merrill 118s: -musicality in spades -Smooth, liquid with no fatigue -Bottom end is great BUT it doesn’t have the same grip/control as with the matching Christine preamp The trade off with using the ref6 instead of the Christine preamp is that you are giving up bass tightness/control and Dynamics in exchange for more of a forgiving presentation with poor recordings. You also lose some of the minute details that are found in the Christine but gain tube highs with sweetness with smoothness If you want facts and nothing but the truth Then go with the Christine. If you just want for everything you play to sound good without much emphasis on the bad then the ref 6 will be your ticket. This is a tough exercise in many ways because some songs need the Dynamics and muscularity of the christine while others need the sweetness and smoothness of the ref6. If you like classic rock or 80s, 70s, etc then the ref6 will blow you away here. If you do classical, jazz, reggae, techno, etc then the Christine will be your piece. Play queen, lynyrd Skynyrd, roxette, coldplay, Ellie goulding, adele, guns roses, ? -----> ref6 all the way Play deadmau5, tiesto, diana Krall, Tracy chapman, Bob marley, avicci? ---> Christine preamp. Do you have boomy sounding speakers that need bass tightness? Do you have laid back speakers that need more detail ? Christine with 118s. Do you have way too much bite on the highs ? Fatigue ? Inability to play things loud for long extended zessiins? Ref6 with Merrill 118s. I’m very very impressed with the battles taking place. The ref6 masks a lot of the low level detail but it adds delicious flavor to what it presents to you. It brings you a juicy steak on a platter each and everytime which is always tasty. The Christine brings you the steak but it let’s you know if it is not cooked to perfection while letting you know that they forgot to bring you the glass of wine you love to have with your steak. Are you the type of person that always orders the same thing from your favorite restaurant only because you know you always like it and don’t want to try anything else on the menu? If this is a yes, then go with the ref 6 and merrill 118s Are you the type that loves to venture and order different things from the menu each time you visit because you want to see what everything tastes like and this way you know what you like best ? Go with the Merrill 118s. |
I can vouch for this as well based on what my dealer has shown me. Merrill is all about keeping you happy and goes to great lengths. The only other company that reminds me of this is PS Audio. Now, go try that with McIntosh who currently has a 2 month lead time when it comes to repairs. Yes, send your McIntosh product in for service right now and you can expect it back right around tax season. |
So how do you tell customers that if their stuff breaks, they need to wait 2 - 3 months to get it fixed ? If they have been in business since then and have that kind of traffic when it comes to repairs then WHY don't they hire more technicians ? Also, they aren't nowhere as big as denon/marantz and they don't take 3 months ? So what's their excuse? I can come up with a long list of companies larger than McIntosh that don't take 3 months to fix an item. Is McIntosh larger than Sony? I had a projector go bad and it was fixed in about 3 weeks. My point is if they wanna be "ballers" as the big companies then act like one and service things in a timely manner. If you have always been producing cars that compete with Toyota but now you want to battle Lexus by creating another line of cars then STEP UP YOUR GAME in all regards. Now you need a nicer dealership, better customer service inside that dealer, massage chairs in the lobby (yes I've seen this) etc etc. I was told that McIntosh refuses to hire more techs to fix product and their attitude is more like "it will get fixed whenever we get to it " and that's Bs in my book. |
this is pretty much how i feel about the harsh critics and the comments on youtube seem to agree with me. https://youtu.be/_c3J66o9Iqc |
I tried using the nordost Odin 1 speaker cables and nordost odin 1 pc on the esoteric and that made things have a bit too much forwardness causing fatigue. I replaced the odin 1 pc with cardas xl pc on the dac and that fixed the issue. I also did a/b comparisons with Merrill's speaker cable vs nordost odin 1 and the odin 1 is on another level as it should be given the huge price gap between both. Nordost odin1 speaker cables with Merrill 118s is incredible. I also informed Merrill about this and he said they plan to display Merrill with nordost odin 1 on their next show. |
A couple of things : -I really don’t like taking advantage of manufacturers who allow you to do in home trials when I know I’m only interested in hearing the product and and then return it. To me, I would only do this if I know for sure I am contemplating buying it for myself (which isn’t the case). - The speaker I played today is NOT BROKEN IN, improperly positioned (did this so you all couldn’t see it on video) and needs more tweaking. The purpose of this, is so we can start from the bottom with it and gradually get it to sound better and better as we go forward so we can watch it "evolve" before our eyes. This is the only way we can appreciate the journey. NOTHING, NOT ONE SINGLE COMPONENT hits the ground running in ANY SYSTEM PERIOD. I DONT CARE HOW MUCH EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE. Anytime you introduce a new component (especially speakers) you must slowly begin to make changes and tweaks elsewhere in order to maximize its performance. Lastly, the intent here is so you can gauge how good a sub 10k speaker can sound (after we take time to fine tune it ) with some of the finest electronics available. It was never intended to battle my Sasha DAW, but rather show us what 10k can get us so we all can say " wow, yes it’s not the Daw but damn for 10k I would be damn happy with that performance". |
What if I told you all I have 2 more pairs of speakers coming ... All under 20k MSRP....and by the way , I do this to keep things fun and entertaining but to be 200% transparent with you all, I ALWAYS ALWAYS lose my @ss off with speakers. I have ALWAYS lost money on EVERY SINGLE SPEAKER I have owned and reviewed. Speakers ARE NOT something I want to keep doing because the logistics suck and they take a lot of space. They are the least favorite thing for me to swap out. Even if I am losing or bleeding money on speakers, I still don’t take advantage of those smaller companies doing in home trials. Speakers are the greatest and biggest improvement you can make but they are beyond difficult to sell once you are done with them. Wanna know why ? Well here are s few reasons that you almost always hear from potential buyers: - spoke to the wife and she hated the color (that's a lie...that is the buyer not telling you the truth ) - they don't fit my space - hate the shape - don't have the amplifiers for it - they don't go with my decor That said, if your response to those answers above is " how about if I lose -5k-10k in order to close the deal ?" Then all of a sudden the buyer magically made them fit, or the color isn't too bad or the wife loves them ... Yep...these are facts :) |
@mrdecibel Thank you for your advice. I am sorry about your recent loss. I also lost a good friend a few weeks ago. Not easy. No need to go anywhere fyi. We can agree to disagree on certain things but that doesn't make this less of an interesting conversation. I don't believe we even see eye to eye with our spouses or kids :) so I appreciate your feedback. |
Ok guys, The long awaited amplifiers have arrived. I am now the proud owner of the baddest amp I’ve seen in person and the brief moment I heard them today was just incredible. I heard bass that was subterranean, I heard detail , resolution , completeness from top to bottom. I am pleased to announce that I have FINALLY captured a pair of pass labs XS300 monos. :). Pictures to come soon |
The amps have been playing music for about 3 hours now after being in their boxes for the last 2 years. Here are my initial impressions given the facts above and using the Christine prramp: -Bass is mangling the woofers on the scalas as if they were being punched with a hammer from behind. -HUGE SOUNDSTAGE - LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG BUT VERY LOOOOOOOOOONG DECAYS that slowly fade out - the mids gained far more body and articulation. It feels as if each performer articulates everything much better. - incredible depth - zero fatigue at ANY VOLUME LEVEL. - Music seduces you more and has gained more emotion. - amps run hot but it doesn't seem to bother me since the AC vent is right above my head lol With that said, I might end up chasing down a pass labs preamp down the road. Maybe xp32? For powercords I am using the cardas xl on the amps and Odin on the dac. I might try Odin on the amps over tht weekend. |
I will disclose what speakers I chose later this week. On a different note, I had a dealer friend of mine come over last night for a brief moment and he listened to the Merrill 118s with the arc6se versus the full moment set up. He said he " the Merrill and arc " killed the Momentum based on the brief listening session we had. Granted, this was a quick session but his initial impression was " wdf, that's class d playing ? " He said it sounded outstanding and the control and speed is far better than the Dag set up. I actually called him out on his comments because he was one of the many people who didn't give class d a chance. I will admit, the Merrill and arc 6se is DANGEROUS.... |
Enjoy the best amps I’ve owned $20k and under ! https://youtu.be/sTjzK7e9f2A Ps: with these maggies,, 80db of efficiency, the gryphon pretty much put the dag Momentum s250 to bed...it was not even close to say the least how both amps behaved. The gryphon lit up the Maggie’s like a Christmas tree.. mephisto Monos...hmmm ugh |
Top 5 amps that I can recall at different points in my journey and in no particular order: Block audio Constellation centaur 2 Luxman 900u Pass labs xs300 Merrill 118s I asked the same question to a dealer friend of mine his top 5 are: Mephisto stereo Dag M400's MSB S500 NAIM NAP500DR VAC 452 iQ Pass labs xs300 |
Update: 26 hours of continuous playtime : - the most intense imaging ive ever experienced - the scalas now sound taller and wider - the walls have totally vanished from the room - these amps have made the speakers do a disappearing act. I close my eyes and can't locate the speakers. - the highs are silky, feathery , light , layered and completely delineated. - the room temperature is 2 degrees higher after 26 hours of constant play. Not too bad - music sounds insane at any level which is indeed dangerous because you may find yourself listening at dangerous levels. - Electric bill will reflect the amount of fun time you've had each month. Up next: the ref6 will enter the chain to see if it has any chemistry with the xs300s |