2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by speedbump6

speedbump6
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Great idea Ron. I have doubts it will happen, but it would be very easy to do. I suppose that if his system doesn’t come out on top, then maybe it’s our lack of sophistication and appreciation for his specific music and listening preferences, but I think I can live with that stigma, lol. I’m assuming it will sound great, just don’t see how it could compare to jays system, but the ears don’t lie. What I don’t understand if the benchmark is really all that he believes it is, and with its price point, why isn’t that product already a part of his system. What am I missing? 
speedbump6
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Guyl, you must not have bothered to read vibers posts basically doing exactly what tecno was, calling him out to do what he wants because he’s afraid of the results? That’s rather childish I thought when tecno did it. I see people giving options on how to resolve that without asking someone to spend their money on something that dosnt fall into the realm of what’s he’s doing. No one here is at anyone’s else’s beck and call to provide the show they want to see and spend their money to make it happen. It’s one thing when people suggest products, ask about those products, have discussions about those products. What anyone decides to spend money and time on is their business. That’s not what has been happening in this case, but despite that, a truly viable option has been suggested that should logically answer the question for those who have doubts about the outcome. And maybe even possibly surprise many others with the outcome. And jay has made it clear that he’d be willing to incorporate that into a video if it works out. Many others here have expressed views different that the op, but don’t keep putting their personal preferences out there as if they’re the one true way of purity. Most of us realize that we all have different preferences and that different products may work better in some ways for those preferences. I’ve mentioned a few of mine over time, but feel no need to beat everyone over the head with every post about them. What I like dosnt work for everyone, and I’m just as intrested in what others like and why.
speedbump6
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Magico M9? Lol. Not sure it will be another speaker, unless it will replace the Alexia 2s.  
speedbump6
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Look up Pivetta Opera. Now, that would be something, lol
speedbump6
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Wait, we have to be sane to be here now? That may exclude me then. 
speedbump6
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Tecno, you’re comparing a 50k speaker with a 140k speaker,  try comparing something in the Wilson lineup that compares in price instead. Then the comparison I’m sure would be much closer. The Wilson’s sounded great, so I can’t see any room for complaining. Your posts on the subject seem to indicate that you think Jay was trying to push sales of certain items. He’s proven that he’s not married to any product. It’s been made clear your mileage may vary based on your own preferences. Now that he has focals, it seems he’s stopped shilling for a speaker line now?  You have  to try things before you know what they will do. Unlike most, he has the means to try them all out in his system, therefore able to take a path that most just could not, and most who could, wouldn’t be intrested in for time and effort reasons. Rice, I do think the Tekton’s bone stock with just the be tweeters could play with the alexia’s and focals. Add the all be array, and since Eric seems to be willing to do just about any upgrade, get him to make all the additions you mentioned. The price will be higher for his extra labor of course. I’m not one for doing mods myself, so that’s the route I’d go. Wouldn’t win any beauty contests, but I don’t think the Wilson’s or focals are that great looking either. 
speedbump6
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Because it’s not just about amps, and there’s not a category for amp and speakers. It’s also about dacs and speaker cables, and cable risers and racks, etc etc. it’s about whatever the latest that Jay has added to his system to test. There’s no reason why there can’t be multiple topics being discussed at the same time, pick the ones you’re intrested in and ignore the ones you’re not. I’m happy to talk about anything that affects a systems performance short of chants and mystical spells, lol. 
speedbump6
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I have the ulfs viber, just waiting on the moabs. All the dates given keep coming and going. Zprr we are all kind of discussing higher end products here, so I think it’s relevant. Just some what if talking is all. Rice, you’re welcome to come upgrade my speakers for me if you like, lol. Have no idea what all be would sound like, but I imagine it might be better depending on preferences. Until someone does it, guess we will never know. Either way, I’m not into doing mods and Jay has made it clear he’s not either. I’m sure everyone has some idea of what speaker could maybe be better than whatever speaker he chose to get. 
speedbump6
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As far as I’m concerned anyone should feel free to offer up ideas, and also I think one of the ideas of what Jay does is to get people thinking about different products, and how they might work together. He’s continuously changing equipment, so I do think it’s a very relevant discussion to be had. We need to all be a bit more tolerant of each other’s ideas and subject matter. I get that the benchmark discussion was not relevant because of the price points we are discussing. If the Tekton’s were marketed through a distribution channel, and the cabinets prettied up to meet the market demand at the new price points it would then have to be sold at, we are deep into Wilson and focal levels. It only appears cheaper because of being direct marketed and basic cabinet design and finishes. Yes, I do think it would indeed compete with speakers that have been shown in jays system. And for viber, they are upstairs in my home theater system and moving them over to the two channel systems would be a lot of work and much complaining from the wife, lol. It would be easier for me to send them to Jay to try in his system than it would be for me to do in mine, mostly because of the wife. I don’t mind moving them, but my wife is not so understanding of my passions and jays is his. The home theater has some very good equipment, just not to the level of what’s in the two channel. Based on what I hear with that being said, I do think the Tekton’s would fare very well. I really would have no problem at all if jay tried them and found them to be lacking. I’d rather him give us what he really thinks, then to try to not hurt feelings. I’m not a “ fanboy” of any product because of a name, or anything else. Each product has to stand on its on merits, whatever they are, is what they are. I’m not trying to push tektons, or any other product on anyone. If asked, I’m happy to give my thoughts, if I hear something in jays system that I am able to use them as a comparison, I will, as so many here have done over time. 
speedbump6
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Tecno. It seems the Wilson bias is more on your part than anyone else’s. Both Wilson and focal make great speakers. You’re the only one who seemed bothered by the Wilson’s. There are other high end makes that I’m sure could be compared favorably than just those two makes. The way Jay moves through things, just keep patient if your favorite isn’t there, it could be maybe in a few months. 
speedbump6
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Need isn’t what this hobby is about. No needs a 10k system much less one for hundreds of thousands. Want and need are two different things. No one needs to be a race car driver. No one needs to jump out of perfectly good airplanes. No one needs a 100k car. This forum isn’t really about needs. This specific thread most certainly is not. Some people reach for the stars, while others are afraid to leave the ground. 
speedbump6
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It’s not tektons vs anything. They haven’t been heard in the system. Now let’s take the Wilson chronosonic and compare  the focals. That’s less of a percentage difference between it and the focals, than the focals are vs the alexias. I’d be willing to bet that it wouldn’t be so much of a contest. If your point is that it takes a focal that costs three times as much as the Wilson to beat it, then I would agree. There was a heads up comparo of a somewhat similar priced focal to the sashas and the Wilson’s won that particular event, with that particular equipment at the time. Again, they both make great products. At the price of the current focals, I sure would hope, and expect, them to beat the alexias, or I’d be disappointed at what I spent the money on.
speedbump6
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Tecno, the bw do sound good, I have the 800s. Not sure I could compare them to the evo though, meaning the tweeters specifically since that’s what you mentioned. There is something I really really like about the 800s. I remember trying their versions from the early 80s and being under whelmed. I ended up with the vandersteens at that time, such a  sweet speaker. Wish I still had those, would love to compare them to what I have now. I have a set of the larger book shelf 700 series bw that sound ok, but not impressive in any way. I heard the 802s before I got the 800s, huge difference to me. My thing is that I like different sounds. I’m not married to any one sound. I like variety. Different speakers do different things well, and I appreciate each for what it does. Classical is wonderful on them, Norah Jones, Ann Wilson, etc. great vocalalists  are fantastic on them, impactful music is great. Pink Floyd, especially monetary lapse of reason, and the eagles hotel California album. I’m surprised they don’t make an offerings further up the scale like Wilson and others. I’m looking forward to jays future with speakers, since as he said, there’s really no where else he needs to go with the front end. I’m not as familiar with the magicos since they wernt really big when I got the audiophile bug. 
speedbump6
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You’ve heard the wham and relentless combo many times? Lol. Somehow I don’t think most of us have heard any of these combos many times. Those whamms sound fantastic. As they should for the price.
speedbump6
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Tecno, the amount of engineering that goes into the Wilson’s, the materials they use, the designs, it’s a bit of a work of art in that, in the engineering. Not having heard the higher Focals in person, only through videos, my preference between them and Wilson would be Wilson. I reserve the right to change that thought upon hearing them in person though. One I wish that would step up with some higher levels is B&W. The 800D3s are wonderful speakers, and it would be intresting to see what they could do at a higher level. I don’t think I’d bet for or against any one thing showing up in Jays videos. He’s changed directions many times, and that’s part of the fun. What will be next? It’s like Christmas all year. 
speedbump6
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Kren, call your bookie and make a bet on the next speakers, lol. You might be able to make some real money. The great thing is that maybe he had magicos before, but he didn’t have them with the Mephisto, so it’s the same, but different. 
speedbump6
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I certainly enjoy it. If someone does not, no one is forcing them to watch. There’s plenty of YouTube channels out there for all tastes. Jay is filling in an area that very few others do. At best you see short videos of higher end product with one song, which is great, but no commentary involved with most of those. I can’t buy a Bugatti, didn’t mean I’m not interested in them anyways. The best news for those whose budgets wouldn’t allow these products is that you get to hear and see them in action on someone else’s dime. I feel guilty if I spend a dealer’s time listening to something I would never buy, so it’s guilt free and Jay seems to like it when you like it too, so everyone has a good time. Some of the lessons he’s learned from all this can help any of us. System matching and how important that can be is a good example. There are some good ideas on where spending your money gets you the best results, and where the results are minimal is another one. 
speedbump6
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Tecno, part of the journey is being able to experiment with many different systems and components. I built up a lot of different equipment with that same idea in mind, to hear many things. It seems I’m a bit different that many, I like many sounds. I have spent to be able to do that, and I understand that others may chose to spend their money elsewhere. I’ve done the same thing in the past with guitars and their amps, and am also currently doing it with guns. It’s fun to try different things. While x might be better at this or that than y, it dosnt mean that y can’t also be fun. But just reading reviews dosnt always give the real understanding of what it really is to you. That’s the journey Jay is on. I can’t say it’s really to end up with the last word in a personal system for himself, though it may have started out that way. There a certain pleasure ( some would say fix) you get from trying to next new toy. I’ve found it’s hard to stay happy with what you have, knowing there’s always something new and different out there. Jay has set some parameters for himself, about what he adds or dosnt add, though I’d say he could likely be tempted to do something on a wild hair that maybe dosnt follow his guidelines if something strikes a fancy for him. In a way guys like him ( and I’ll include myself in that) are junkies for the next new toy. The anticipation of it, but once it’s here, it’s no longer new, and hey, my buddy is offering me his Wilson chronosonics for 70k? Hmmmm, bye bye magico, Focal, or whatever happens to be the current flavor, there’s a new flavor coming and I need the room, lol. 
speedbump6
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Tecno, you seem to get upset about product you can’t afford and Jay can. You get upset at services he might offer to interested parties. It just seems that it bother you that people can afford things you cannot. I have never understood that thinking. Unless you’re Jeff Bezos, there’s someone out there who can afford more than you. Why let it bother you. Maybe we should all be driving Yugos and living in single wides. Have to keep everyone equal at the lowest common denominator? What a boring world that would be. 
speedbump6
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I remember in my youth they had these “hifi” systems that were a piece of furniture. We had one that had the turntable, eight track, and radio all built in with red crushed velvet covering the speakers with what appeared to be Spanish inspired iron work. That was my first sound system, it was gifted to me when I got my first place of my own.  Maybe tecno was gifted one also and is still making use of it. 
speedbump6
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Agreed viber. If anyone is experiencing breakup on the speakers mentioned, then the spls they must be playing at will soon induce enough hearing loss that they won’t be able to hear the breakup soon enough anyways, lol
speedbump6
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Sometimes it takes someone familiar with the reasons behind a design to understand its beauty. Not all of us may be gifted with that ability. 
speedbump6
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Tecno, how can we take anything you’ve listed seriously. Wilson Alex is Meg and veneer? It would help if you knew much about the speakers to begin with. The Alex has no Mdf and certainly there is no veneer since they are painted. Why do you feel the need to retell jays opinions. When it’s focal, you agree with him, when it’s Wilson you seem to feel he’s being dishonest with us? If you want a fanboy thread for focals, start one. Jay just gives you the hard brutal and honest truth. 
speedbump6
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I see some deleted posts, bet I don’t have to think long or hard about whose. The nice thing about this thread is Christmas is 12 months a year. The only thing I can think of to get Jay for Christmas is more hours in a day, he already has or has had everything else, lol. 
speedbump6
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Kodak, Gene of Audioholics dosnt believe cables of any make, make a difference. I’ve confronted him about his conclusions and he claims to have an engineering expertise that allows him to debunk the myth that cables matter. Whenever I bring up physics and logic, he goes silent on the subject. He does nice reviews on audio products ( though a good half of his videos are spent trying to debunk so called myths) he claims as so many others that they’re trying to save people from being duped. Many of us have tried to explain that we spend knowing what we are getting, and no one is being duped. He dosnt get the concept that we spend because we hear a difference, not in the hopes of hearing a difference. Then the next claim is we feel the need to buy into the story to justify our purchases. I have found most people are pretty vocal about any product they don’t feel meets their expectations and most would sell off and move on ( one of the reasons why Audiogon exists), and that they won’t back up a lie and boast about the product. That type seems to demeans those who buy into cables matter, while we do not demean those who hear no difference. I guess I could say that their hearing is substandard, buts that’s just not the case. For some they wouldn’t admit it even if they did hear a difference and will claim it’s due to something else, some truly do not hear. Good for them, because it will save them a lot of money. I used to be one of those, but did a blind test for myself just to prove to myself that there was no difference, and found out that I was wrong. 
speedbump6
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Mr gray, SR isn’t involved in the comparison, so what they think is not relevant. 
speedbump6
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You don’t like horsepower tecno? I guess if I drove a Yugo I might feel the same way. ( though I did still crave more horsepower even when I had a Datsun 210) I don’t hate on better because I can’t afford it, I know I sure couldnt back then. 
speedbump6
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I have an idea. Viber records his system, and tecno records his. Then send them to Jay and have him post them on his channel. Maybe we can do some videos of the groups systems and do some comparing of what we think? Just get with Jay about music selection in case something isn’t allowed to be played on YouTube.
speedbump6
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Small incremental differences at this point as I believe we will see with jays stated next ideas. The idea that the midrange is lacking in any real way on the video i believe is just not the case. Yes, he can try fuses, different footers, room treatments, endless cable combinations, etc etc etc. I’m sure the Wilson chronosonic would sound even better than the Alex . But with the current setup I hear nothing missing  in the midrange and it’s the best it’s been vs any previous iteration. My personal preferences were for the Alexia in the bass department, but I can hear what it is that these speaker do with it, and get why some would prefer that. It’s not lacking, it’s just my preference. Sounds like we will have a lot going on over the next week, it’s an ambitious schedule he’s set up.
speedbump6
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It’s the same guys who post on every single tekton thread here on Audiogon. Not sure what tekton did to them that traumatized them so much, lol. Maybe it’s some tekton competitors since most Tekton actual owners seem to have very good things to say about them and biting into their sales? I know I sure don’t have the time or energy to post everywhere I can about things I don’t like. If I did I think I’d rather find something much more fun to do with my time like go to the gun range, play my guitars, watch jays latest videos. 
speedbump6
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Love the live chat, get so much more info in less time, on more topics. 
speedbump6
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Lol, too funny. I can imagine. I can imagine tecno listening to a new speaker, then being asked what he thinks of it. His response would be, I need to know who made the drivers before I can answer that. Not sure why the issue with the stock Boulder cables. They make cables specifically to complement their product, and feel that using anything else would take away from the experience, that’s how well made they are, and how confident they are about them. It’s strange that we get the Tekton haters here, but none of the anti cable guys. Many of the anti cable guys seem to also be Tekton haters that I’ve seen on other threads. 
speedbump6
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I won’t be home for a while to listen with the headphones, but just from the iPad I’d have to say gryphon. I am surprised, but I do know that the headphones have changed my mind before, so that is not my final answer, lol. 
speedbump6
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Kren, I’m sure viber appreciates your valuation of his equipment.  Viber, as far as an open mind, for me it was easy to see who has a negative bias towards tektons in general, vs what they heard, based on their comments and those who were genuine in their assessment. Same for the ones who are just anti Wilson or Gryphon, etc. In the end it dosnt matter what anyone else thinks other then the person spending their money. There are people whose opinions I appreciate and take into consideration when I make a decision on equipment, and in the end it’s my ears that have to happy and I think that’s what Jay tries to do. Give you his opinion, while saying over and over that your mileage may vary and his preferences may not work for you.
speedbump6
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You said his equipment was priceless, lol. ( I know, the priceless comment was directed at the statement quoted on the post, the priceless comment was in humor as was my comment) At least I thought that was you that said that
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Viber I’m going to have to disagree to some extent about eq. I for one do not understand the negative perception in our hobby that many people seem to have about eq and believe it can indeed be a very useful tool, rather than play around with hardware components to change or fix a certain issue of sound. To some extent we are using hardware changes or tweaks for some, in order to eq the sound. Having said that there is a difference between eq and changing the tone or fundamental sound we hear. A proper eq cannot change this, but can can only increase or decrease what is already there. Expecting a very lush sounding amp for example to become a much more detailed one isn’t truly realistic unless it is so recessed at certain levels by another component that you compensate for it with eq to some extent, though there will still be an underlying loss due to that component still being in the chain. You can indeed make a detailed amp sound more muffled by recessing certain frequencies. Maybe to some that may make it sound softer and less sibilant if they perceived it as such, but at a loss of detail and texture just because the surrounding frequencies are masking what is there because of the reduced levels at those frequencies. Eq is best used in modicum for smaller changes, larger ones will make the result sound artificial due to what you lose by something being masked too greatly. If there is a need for that much eq, there is a greater problem that should be addressed by whatever is creating the underlying reason for needing to add so much eq. I have seen eq used in the professional recording industry in this way and the engineer involved not recognize the problems they’ve introduced and why the results end up being unsatisfactory to listen to. Much of this is why we say there are “good” and “ bad” recordings. If that much eq is needed in the first place, something else was done wrong in the chain that should be addressed to alleviate the need to try to compensate with eq. It can suck the life, or soul out of the music if done poorly. The Harmon curve is generally used to achieve what humans here as a good sound, with minor variations acceptable based on personal preferences. Deviate far from that, or have to use too much eq to achieve the curve, and the result will likely be unsatisfactory. I currently have a system in my car that I spent a decent amount on that the company that did the work really has no understanding of these ideas. Adding eq to increase a frequency that inherently has issues due to hardware or design isssues will not solve the problem, and they cannot seem to grasp this. Maybe the problem is that the  car audio audience isn’t really an audiophile one. I haven’t been involved enough in that side of things to know if that is the case or not, but at least the company I’m dealing with is most definitely not one filled with audiophiles or even the concept of what good sound is or how to achieve it. Seems strange because their bays are filled with some very expensive cars, maybe those customers just equate expensive with good and that’s enough to make them happy, lol, 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
When Jay says will we see a matchup in 2021? I’ll translate that. Count on a matchup, lol. Jay you’ve gone and burst my bubble. I have been waiting ( very patiently) for those checks from the different manufacturers to show up in the mail. I guess no one is going to pay my way through life other than me, how sad. I could get used to a playboy lifestyle if only I had the financial backing to do so. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Close, I believe the negativity was posted on the YouTube video of the Tektons. I don’t know why people have to be hateful about any product that Jay reviews or his reasons for doing so. Be respectful, others like them,and some may not. Not sure why it bothers some people so much like that. I have no problems with anything someone likes, that’s their choice and it’s their money to spend. I get to hear reviews on products I am intrested, while I may not be intrested in every review, I have found that there are products that maybe I should take a look at that wasn’t on my radar after I read a review and hear feedback. Some people are just bitter and the world revolves around them ( so they think) and anything outside that orbit is hogwash to them. I would think that life would seem very disappointing in general if I was always bitter about everything and anything that other people find intresting. Personally I enjoy hearing what other people’s intrested are, I already know what mine are, so it would be a boring conversation I’d have with myself if that’s all I had to look forward to. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
He was so impressed that mere words are not able to describe his thoughts?
speedbump6
760 posts
 
I guess that’s better than the don’t care character who professes to liking tekton, then attacks me for liking them also, lol. Or is that tecno? 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
I have a dream. Wait a minute, Jay is already living that dream. Ok, I have another dream. Darn it, Jay already has that one too. Ok, it’s official, Jay has stolen all my dreams and is living them. Sigh. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Jg is correct. We all have different preferences. Dosnt mean one is wrong and one is right. It might mean one is right for you. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
So it seems that the newer SR cables are not giving the same performance as the older versions? That’s surprising but that’s why we listen. I agree with Jay about services provided. I own my own store and people do not give value to any service you provide, even when it’s  service you just cannot get at most stores. They seem to feel they own you sometimes because they made a purchase, or thinking about it, and expect everything else besides the product should be free, and most will shop you to death on the prices. Some will even try to compare floor model demo prices to new in the box prices. It’s nice when you get the ever more rare customer who does value what you do and provide, rather than make you feel more like an endentured servant. Also so many think they can return anything they want at any time because the big box stores might do it giving ugh or care to the cost of business and that if you cannot cover your costs and make money, you won’t be there to begin with. I would have no problem if dealers charged for demos by the hour, that would weed out the tire kickers and people would better understand the value of the services they are receiving. Personally I don’t expect anyone to work for free and should be compensated for their time.
speedbump6
760 posts
 
That’s called experience decibl. Jay never said he wanted to charge for quick questions, but like he said above, you want to demand a lot of his time no effort you need to make it worth his while.
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Tecno, do you not think that we dosnt realize your thoughts on gryphon vs Boulder? I ask because you only mention it on every post you make. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Yep, I don’t expect jay to do vinyl, it’s just too time consuming and meticulous. You could spend as much time setting up properly for as he does to change out a complete system. Plus lots of variables it adds to the system with additional hardware that in itself introduces new variables. If you like what the 500 integrated does, the 700 seperates do indeed add more. Soulution provides clarity, detail, and transparency. Some may not consider it the most dynamic, but what it dosnt do is over enhance any one area. If it’s coming from the source, it will let you hear it. The Magicos accentuate those attributes to some extent also. Will be intresting to hear them with something that displays the bass performance of the speakers and the  source material. ( in other words, would be nice to hear music that provides it in spades, on equipment that can reproduce it to the same extent, lol) whatever does Jay have in mind for us. It’s like the cliffhanger at the end of a season finale. Only we don’t have to wait so long to find out how it plays out. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
If faxer is confident enough in his product, send them to Jay to demo them. I sent him the Tektons and I’m not even a manufacturer, just interested in seeing how they’d stack up after all the discussion about them. There’s good in most products, along with areas they don’t excel in. And as always price has to be taken into context. Instead of attacking products for what they arnt, maybe find the good at what they are. No product, no matter the cost is perfect, and what’s best for me, may likely not be best for someone else. Let’s have a discussion rather than argument. I’d even cover the shipping costs if that is what would hold faxer back from sending them. The gauntlet has been laid down, so let Jay give them a whirl and see how they do. Lol. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Most people don’t care to be preached at. Those doing the preaching seem to feel they have all the answers and are attempting to enlighten the rest who are not so gifted with proper knowledge and understanding. In the case of the audio hobby, facts are very subjective. No one listens with your ears, but you. We each have our own preferences. The problem comes in when we feel everyone else should agree with and share those preferences. Give others the room to have their own vision of where they want to be. It’s a lot easier to get people to listen to,your thoughts when it’s not being shoved in their face. Give them room to express why their version works for them. Neither is wrong, and both are right, for them. Look at how many times Jay has adjusted his own thinking about certain subjects over the years. His opinions have changes, his tastes have grown and expanded to places he did not see himself in, in the past. We have seen that happen on this forum and in his videos. Personally it would be a sad day when that stops, when there is one set given sets of truths, and we have nothing further to share, as we would have arrived at some perceived final truth. I’ve been busy with other hobbies and work for a number of months and see that it’s exactly the same with this issue. Some people get stuck in one path and are not able to deviate or make allowances for others who are on different paths. It’s hard to communicate in those cases and both parties end up frustrated. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Viber, I’m going to have to disagree with some of your assumptions. The goal for each can be different, and that in no way makes it wrong. Not because you think your vision of the hobby is correct, nor anyone else’s thoughts. We each have to chase our on visions. Ive seen very disparate impression of equipment and sounds from people who I highly regard their knowledge of this hobby. It’s actually allowed me to open my thoughts to different things and learn to appreciate many ideas. There are always some that no matter what, I just cannot hear what they do, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t feel that they are looking for some inferior sound, and I don’t feel that I am either. I don’t believe that most here can be pigeon holed into the spot you are placing them, or that your assessment of them is correct. It’s obviously not the sound you seem to be looking for I would agree. I find that you use the term euphonic to describe most  sounds outside your comfort zone, and that it’s not appropriately applied. You imply that they’re looking for a inferior sound since it’s not within the realm of your comfort level. It seems as if you say these things as a way to defend against what you see as attacks on you. Try less to convince others of your vision. Discuss, yes. But it seems you are always trying to get others to see some light that you see, that you believe they do not. And some here have struck back with comments like the educate one you mentioned. Give everyone else room to have their own thoughts which are just as valid and right as your own are for you. We should be able to discuss without judging others for what they believe they hear and experience. In a way it might be easier for me if I could find just one sound that I thought was the right one, no need to be chasing so much gear and spending so much doing it. But for me, and from talking with many others, that’s part of the fun and enjoyment. I enjoy more than just one signature sound. I can find something I like in many different ones. It’s the same issue I have with guitars. Each creates a different tone, adds something that another does not. Then add in the all the amp combos, and then you have all the effects possible. There are some that are just not worth listening to in my mind, that for others is the top,of their bucket list. Then I’ve gone back later and found that hey, there is something there after all. The amp didn’t change, the guitar didn’t. I did. For me, that’s a blast, and why I tend to go off the deep end in many hobbies I have. The journey never ends, there’s always new sights and sounds to explore, and I’m thankful for that. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 

I don't think anyone doubts Vibers system is the best there is, for him. As much time as has been spent on the subject I am still not sure if he's trying harder to convince us also, or trying to convince himself. It's obvious he's not convincing anyone else, and he seems to be a very intelligent guy and can see that, so then I'm left to assume he's trying to convince himself. To be so entrenched in one sound seems that you would have to adapt your sense of sound to the system, and not the other way around. Also if nirvana has been achieved, I am not sure I'd be on a forum where everyone else is discussing how to achieve their goal of the best sound. The end game has already been achieved. While I love my Buell X1 and Honda RC51 motorcycles for what they are, they are nearly as old as Vibers speakers and I'd be a fool to think they are the best motorcycles today, or even were at the time they were produced. I do know, and there can be no dispute, I am the best me there is, or ever was. At least I think so, lol. 

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