Uh, Viber6.
IT IS THE MID-RANGE...that gives the soundstage more than anything.
.See below :
RE:TREBLE
(1)FORWARD- if applied to treble, is very similar to bright; both describe too much treble. A forward treble, however, also tends to be dry, lacking space and air around it. Many of the terms listed above have virtually identical meanings. Hard, brittle, and metallic all describe an unpleasant treble characteristic that reminds one of metal being struck. In fact, the unique harmonic structure created from the impact of metal on metal is very similar to the distortion introduced by a solid-state power amplifier when it is asked to play louder than it is capable of playing.
(2)GOOD TREBLE-The following terms, listed in order of increasing magnitude, describe good treble performance: smooth, sweet, soft, silky, gentle, liquid, and lush. When the treble becomes overly smooth, we say it is romantic, rolled-off, or syrupy. A treble described as "smooth, sweet, and silky" is being complimented; "rolled-off and syrupy" suggests that the component goes too far in treble smoothness, and is therefore colored. A rolled-off and syrupy treble may be blessed relief after hearing bright, hard, and grainy treble, but it isn’t musically satisfying in the long run. Such a presentation tends to become bland, uninvolving, slow, thick, closed-in, and lacking detail. All these terms describe the effects of a treble presentation that errs too far on the side of smoothness..
RE:MID-RANGE
(1) MID-RANGE- Too much mid-range energy can make the presentation seem forward and "in your face." A broad dip in the mid-range response (too little mid-range energy over a wide frequency span) can give an impression of greater distance between you and the presentation.
This info is from :
Guide to High-Performance Audio Systems by Robert Harley , Editor-in-Chief of The Absolute Sound magazine. |
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In case you did not know , it (Lamm M1.2) is a Hybrid monoblock power amplifier with solid-state input stage, a tubed driver stage(6922), and a MOSFET output stage.
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I do not know if it is the best amp that i have ever heard , but it is my favorite. That would be the McIntosh MC30 mono blocks re-done by Yves Beauvais.
The tube compliments for each amp are Two 12AX7s, One 12AU7, One 12BH7, two 6L6GC output tubes and a 5U4GB rectifier.
With the right NOS Tubes in there it is amazing
Wit the following tubes for the pair of amps , it is hard to beat IMO
V1=12AX7---A matched pair of Telefunken from west Germany.
V2=12AU7 --A matched pair of RCA Clear Tops
V3=12BH7A --A matched pair of RCA
V4=12AX7 --A matched pair of Amperex
Rectifier pair = National Union 5U4GB
Output tubes Quad = GE 6L6GC from the 1960s with O Getter
These amps are very open yet resolving .,with a great 3D soundstage
The Deep Bass Articulation is unreal for 30 watt amps.,but, you need highly efficient speakers.
I think that my favorite output tube is the 6L6GC. (very even and detailed with great bass )
Guess who else said the 6L6GC is their favorite............Roger Modjeski
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@thezaks
I agree with you 100 %
Just like when people say that it (a pre-amp or amp) isn’t true to the source .
How do you know what the source sounds like .
You had to hear it through some component. Unless you were there in the studio when it was recorde ... you do NOT know , and even then, the recorded sound is what the Engineer wanted . That does not make it uncolored.
Unless you use the same equipment that the recording studio used , then you do not know what the source sounded like, but once again, that only makes it what the Engineer wanted or envisioned (which might be true to the source)... not necessarily uncolored.
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You will be happiest with the Lampizator Pacific IMHO. The following is from a review at audiostream.com. It compares the Pacific to the Audio Note 5,and because they are both non-upsampling and zero feedback designs, I personally think they give us the most natural sound. .
Like the Audio Note DAC 5 Special I also have in review, the Pacific makes you forget completely about the fact that it is reproducing the recorded event and unconsciously allows one to be utterly engaged in the music playing. Coincidence? Probably not and I’ll tell you why I think that. Both units utilize zero-feedback, zero upsampling and zero oversampling DAC architecture. While the DAC 5 Special maxes out at 18/96 (by design), the Pacific can handle PCM conversion of up to 24/192 files via SPDIF and up to 705kHz DXD/512 DSD via USB and PCM 32/356 via LAN, so the high-resolution crowd is covered. Read more at https://www.audiostream.com/content/lampizator-pacific-dac-preview#xVtItFE2qooEFYq6.99
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@WCSS
It will.....It will. !!!!!..It will take time to break in .You MUST be patient ... PLEASE .
I am Damned excited that you actually are getting something that I would love to own and I HAVE owned .....well kinda...I had .the BIG 6 .
Besides the Czechs, (Block Audio) are right next door to Poland
( Lukasz Fikus of Lampizator).They should play nice together :)
I am going to go out on a limb and say that it will be similar to the ARC REF10,... in that it will be Damned hard to let go of .
Patience on Break In. Patience
If you want me to break it in for you, send it to me . I’ll take 2 weeks off of work and play with it the entire time. It already comes with some of the best tubes money can buy ( KRON KR45, or PX-4 ) SO.. i doubt very seriously that you would need to tube roll.
It also comes with Mundorf silver /gold solder and copper metal foil output or coupling caps (probably the Jupiter copper foil Paper and wax...THE BEST), which are same caps that I have put in my Granite Audio 864SR.
HELL YES !!!
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I'll bet that ,It will be his Favorite Component :) |
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@ricred1
I think everyone knows THAT , by know (component in your own system ) , but more often than not , you usually do NOT get a huge mismatch ..... that is just ... no good .
Most highly rated components don’t necessarily "Fall on Their Face".
It is pretty unusual to have something that is a mismatch or major disappointment, at this level.
It is still about a component being better or worse (in your own system), but you make it sound as if it could be a Total Dud .
Unfortunately everyone has their own beliefs. and their own setup..
Better or worse than what .. BTW?
I guess you just can’t take the pressure of everyone thinking that it is about a specific component being better or worse .
It IS ALL subjective . I guess if you can’t take that , and have to leave Audiogon, then you might need counseling , to understand why ... ? |
I see that the Rectifier Tube is a 5U4G, but do you know what Tubes the other 2 are ?
Looks Great. BTW , I thought you might "Go for the Gold" :) |
Oh .Nice ..300b .. single ended ...Good |
Okay, sorry to keep asking , but , what tube type if you know , about the other 2. I see 3 of them .One is the Rectifier Tube .It is 5U4G (in the front) what are the other 2 tubes ? Do they have a number on the ?.I think there was many different tube options when you order a Pacific. I was wanting to know which ones in this one .It just makes a difference if i know the tube model number like 300B , cause i know what a lot of them "sound like " so to speak.
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Bass traps for the corners ,and with the rug..that should be about what you want. |
I think with the right cables, the Lampizator Pacific could be as good as the Ref10.
I will just say that Wireworld cables would not be MY choice. |
How much of that soundstage has to do with the Lampizator ?
Have you been using the REF 10 or running from the Lampi without REF 10 ?
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Viber,
It might be all about sparkle and snap.... for you. Too much can be fatiguing.
But, just because you like that doesn’t make it what everyone else likes or wants.. nor does it make it more accurate ,.......... cause we know.. that will be your response... Sigh.
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But,
We will never know. Deep discounts are not offered on Purist Audio cables and WC will only by at Deeply discounted prices for the reasons that I stated earlier. That says it all when he won’t try other cables |
If you were to use Purist Audio Dominus Interconnects from Lampi without the REF10 , I would be willing to bet that you will get what you are missing. The most Musical interconnect that I have ever used. Gives body and weight with textured bass and very good top end and perfect midrange with 3d soundstage. You can crank the Fu@k out of it without glare Very quite background. Things leap out from the Darkness |
jonaiken , I do not disagree.
Purist Audio Dominus Cable is awesome in every way |
@jafox
Sure there are more detailed cables than the Dominus , but there comes a point where too much is TOO MUCH.
If you can’t turn it up loud (Reference levels )and listen for extended periods before it becomes too fatiguing, then to me it ,is too much to take.
Sure it is very impressive to have Huge detail, but it gets fatiguing very quickly.I’ll take Musical over hyper detail all day. .To each his own.
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Viber6 ... Take Note
You said you like to hear upfront .. Live... presentation.
Reference level loudness would be just that. It is not un-natural. Now you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. I did not and do not say that you HAve to turn it up loud . I said it CAN be turned up loud and give a "LIVE" presentation... without fatigue. Still sounds great at medium levels. Of course everything is system dependent |
Viber6
You are just wrong.... period .
I never said that Ii like to crank my music That is not the way I listen . Well .. maybe occasionally. I said that you CAN with the Purist Audio Dominus cable ... without fatigue.. My electronics are NOT rolled off.
Please stop telling people how their system and equipment sounds , when you haven’t heard their system or equipment.
Also can you explain what better spec tubes means .They all have a set of voltages and currents that they operate within.Some may operate towards one end of the spec or toward the middle . some offer lower gain .. at the expense of higher plate current .. etc. Way too many operating parameters for a vacuum tube . i guess it depends on what you want from the tube. Lower Microphonics is always preferred . Is this what you mean ? |
jafox .
I agree wholeheartedly . I could play it loud because it was Awesome Sounding .. just as you stated..It had nothing to do with anything lacking. . . There are very few cables that can play at those levels,with the clarity coherence and tonal balance of the Dominus. It is the quietest cable that I have ever used ....Oh and BTW, It... hands down... has the most detailed and textured bass from any cable that I have ever heard.
That is why I said that the Dominus cable is my all time favorite .
It is very impressive.
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WC,
We never really knew which cables were used in which positions during this testing . We did get that the Platinum 8 were used with the Lampizator when being used as a pre-amp, but other than that we don’t know the speaker cables or what was feeding the Lampi (source and cable) When the REf10 was in the loop , which cables out of the Lampi, into REF10, then which cables to the amps from the Ref 10 ? Analog in and analog out on the REF10. that is 2 sets of cables just into and out of the Ref 10.... right ?
You have a lot of variables due to cabling requirements....., unless i missed something. |
@WCSS
whitecamaross OP1,386 posts01-10-2019 9:56pmSo right now, I went back to the block audios and they sound great but they don’t seem to wow me as the titan fidelity was doing earlier today. However, they have been unplugged for over a day and I remember when I first got them I wasn’t impressed. I became impressed until the next day. They sounded totally different so tomorrow night might be a great showdown as well as Saturday. Both amps will be fully warm Saturday afternoon before the shoot out. I want both to at least be idling for a full day. The preamp and dac will be on 3 hours before the shootout begins. My buddies will jot down their impressions on paper and each person will listen alone without anyone else in the room so that nobody is biased. Once each person listens to about 3 songs through each amp (their own selection) then the next person will go inside and do the same until we are all done. I will then collect their notes and see what each person decided and their opinion on the amplifiers. I will be sure to post what each one of them wrote down on paper.
. ....any notes taken by anybody . How did you keep score ? . ..Still no songlists...curious I am curious as to some of their adjectives used to describe things . Any pics of the dudes with their jaws hitting the floor ? I am a little surprised that everyone was in agreement on what they liked . That is curious.. look at your first sentence in the above quote. BUT........Of course, the Block Audio amps......have to win... they cost more ...Right |
I think rear ported speakers are designed to have a boundary behind them. I know that they are not supposed to be too close though. Just food for thought. Below is from the KEF website - Ported (also known as bass reflex) speakers are designed to enhance the bass response of a loudspeaker through a series of calculations involving cabinet volume, cabinet filling and woofer response, among others.
Typically, bass reflex speakers offer enhanced bass response over closed box designs. The downside to ports is that at lower frequencies ‘smearing’ takes place due to the lessened transient response of the design. This smearing is reduced or eliminated through the ‘tuning’ of the port, cabinet size and volume of the loudspeaker, hence the common name ‘tuned-port.’ Another drawback can be the phenomenon referred to as ‘chuffing’ where air turbulence in the port can actually be heard. A well-designed port addresses both issues. Where the port is placed is the result of a lot of different considerations, not the least of which are visual aesthetics and optimal use of the real estate available on the front baffle. Bass energy moves slowly and takes a large amount of physical space to unfold, so the few inches from the front to the back is negligible: For all intents and purposes there is no difference between a rear- and front-ported speaker. They both do the same thing – use the energy created by the woofer when it moves backward (or ‘in’) to make the bass response of a loudspeaker more efficient. To take that one step further, all speakers (rear-, front-ported or closed box) will be affected by their relationship with the nearest boundaries. Bass energy radiates in all directions from a loudspeaker and so it is (to varying degrees) always affected by the surfaces around the cabinet.
Farther Is Not Always Better Farther is usually better, but don’t ignore the improvements that can be made by moving your speakers closer to the wall. It seems unintuitive but depending on the frequencies you’re having trouble with you may actually clean up some reflections by moving your speakers in the opposite direction of what you think is best. Exactly what the affected frequencies are depend on all the things we’ve been talking about. You’ll never narrow it down to a single octave or band as that will change constantly, but you will be able to dial in a good compromise..
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WC,
Better tubes for the Lampi will fix that..like several here have recommended. |
The right tubes can give the Lampi Pacific a more relaxed presentation.
Don't forget.the Caps in there (Jupiter copper foil) take about 300 hours to fully break in. |
Viber,
Your opinions are .. just that.
Some of us like extended listening sessions .
That requires the presentation to NOT be "in your face"
It can still have all of the treble and not be "in your face"
I know that you have a hard time with it , but "in your face " gets old quick.. It is impressive.. at first... BUT , not for the long haul. Of course ,that is my opinion.but, I tend to think that I am not alone.
It sounds like WC is in the same camp.
That why i said before ...To Each his own. |
no... i said that because you said that if it is laid back sound , it is rolled off.(treble) That is why. You said it about treble ... not me. I say it is not. |
Element 115 ..
Uup ,.is where it is at .
Just ask Bob Lazar |
Viber6 I have to agree with Jafox. you come off as almighty... like you know everything and everyone should listen to you because you know it all. It is you who is being disrespectful with your Almightyness You do not have the experience of most of the equipment that you talk about and comment on . Most people here know better than try to talk about equipment they haven’t heard. You go as far as trying to say that A is better than B.. even though you have never heard either. Above in your post you even try to tell WC where the distortion will come on the volume . Also, the optimum position of the volume control for the highest needed volume is near wide open, for purity and fine gradations of volume options. If an additional preamp’s gain at your max volume is mid position, you are getting a little more distortion
WTF |
Viber6
Spouting off at every opportunity as you do does not earn respect.
You think you must comment on everything as if you know everything. .That is why you come off as a Pompus now it all. Your opinion is better served on equipment that you have heard or used. You try to tell people what is better than the other based on what others say, .This is not VALUABLE or wanted by others.
Almarg and Bill_k are respected here because they do not spout of in the same manner as you. The people on thread have spoken, but, once again , you are too Pompus and Almighty to understand or be able to accept that.
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Viber6
I said that you can get different tubes to give a more relaxed presentation. I did not have any in mind because I do not know which different tubes it can use .. I am not familiar with and have not used any 300B or equivalents
But as far as 5U4G. I think my big 6 used that rectifier and I remember that I preferred the Mullard brown base Coke Bottle shape CV378 |
darned if that don't sound like a millennial. LOL |
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Viber ,
A 300B has specific operating parameters (SPECS)... all the same regardless of manufacturer. It is usually an operating range of for example ...plate voltage , plate current .etc. It is the same for a 12AX7 etc, really any tube #. The tube number is the design and is usually developed by one company initially . Then other companies also manufacture it as time goes on. The different designs and implementations of them from the various manufacturers to achieve a tube within those specs, is what makes them sound different . |
speedbump
I have one daughter who is a millennial. Her and most of her millennial friends wish they had an "Easy Button" for every thing. If they have to expend any time or energy on it to get better results ..... Nope . it is not for them then !
I am in the same camp as you and definitely, the older i get the more I look for the "Easy Button",.. for sure.
Sorry to sidetrack |
Alright WC,
I really think you will be surprised at the MX160 and especially Lyngdorf Room Correction.
just remember to start MIc position #1 in the main seat spot ,at ear level , with the mic pointing right at the center towards the speakers not up in the air .
If you need help lmk |
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lets do the MX160 with Lyngdorf Room correction or RoomPerfect first Please
Of course , I have the MX151... Very similar |
I have tried several Dacs with the Sabre ESS 9018 ,and never liked any of them. ....Very forward, in your face, Hot upper mids, presentation .
Definitely not to my liking. |
Room Perfect Tips: 1) Do not measure the front third of the room 2) Except for Focus Position measurements (which are pointed horizontally toward the front soundstage at each listening position), do NOT point the mic at any speaker during room measurements 3) Try to keep the mic at least three or four feet away from any speaker when measuring 4) Keep the mic at least two feet away from any surface. 5) Vary your measurements - walls (upper/lower), ceiling, floor, large furniture I know this link is for the MX151, but lots of good stuff here .MX160 is Very similar Page 1 reading is more than enough to get the gist of RoomPerfect and MX options and choices for settings. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1479699-official-mcintosh-labs-mx-151-mx150-owner-s-thread.html |
Lampi does not have a Sabre Chip to my knowledge.
From what I now Lampi Pacific is R-2R ladder technology DAC, as i believe all of the Lampizator DACs are.
IMO they are the best sounding ... R-2R Dacs |
MrPaul
What does the Lampizator Pacific use ...then ? |
Thanks bill_k.
I have yet to hear a Sigma Delta DAC that I liked better than an R-2R ladder circuitry DAC, but, then again, I have not heard the Pacific :) |
WC,
I am glad that you have tried other cords . I think that you will be surprised . Well actually , I see that you are surprised. I am glad that you have delved into this. |
