2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Riaa let’s me borrow if I send him a check first lol 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ok gentlemen,
Finally made 2 big moves at once. Big curveball for you all!
up next:
audio research 160 monos
Jeff Rowland 925s

Both should be here in the next 10 days. The 925s are making a comeback so it will be the following shootout:
constellation centaur 2 ($80k)
Rowland 925s ($60k)
ARC 160 monos ($30k)

who do you got winning? Class D? Class ab? Tubes?  Let’s do this !


jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks Paul !
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks @westc

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Using the lampizator as my source and the Constellation Virgo 3 as a preamp, here are my thoughts:

Classe AMP 2: incredible clarity which also digs really deep into the recording. This makes details that are buried behind the music become more recognizable. I pushed this amp as hard as i could with the neoliths and i eventually managed to make it clip (shut off one of the channels), but it had no problems driving my unforgiving Neoliths. I would say that for the money, it is not a bad amp IF AND ONLY IF the rest of your front end is world class. I dont know if it is because my preamp and dac are awesome, but this amp surprised me which is WHY i am starting to get the feeling that Neoliths might be a better match for Class D than Solid state. I also feel as if Class D just keeps up with the speed of the panels and the bass control is just a tad tighter through the Neoliths. i can't explain it. 

Rowland 535: i have not used it with the Constellation Preamp yet. I will try to use this amp in the next few days to see how it compares. 

This is EXACTLY why i am bringing the 925s back. I need to see HOW good the Neolith/ 925 combo will be and do a shootout between rowland and Constellation. Both amps are world class, but i think that at this level it is about matching components. I like alot of what constellation is doing with my speakers, but there is something ELSE that class d does with my Neoliths that Class AB does not seem to pull off. It feels as if the panels light up more like a Christmas tree with Class d. There is more stuff happening behind the music that is harder to pick up with Class AB. 
One thing i have learned is that WITH THE NEOLITHS, amplifiers with higher gain tend to bring out MORE detail out of the panels than lower gain amps. For example, with the Classe amp which has a gain of 29 db vs the standard 26db of the constellation (as many other amps have), i hear more detail at lower volume through the Class D when the volume is turned down. The constellation amps begin to "vanish" once i begin to take the volume to very low levels while higher gain amps continue to push music.  Pretty interesting learning experience !
Of course, i need to sit with the class D amps for hours at a time to see if they engage me as much as Luxman, Constellation, etc, but i think the trick IS for me to use "musical" components in order to reshape the sound of a class D amp. As stated earlier, i feel as if class d still has some "artificial sweetener" which is like Splenda. Some folks hate the aftertaste of splenda while other's dont mind it at all. The trick here is to use smooth sounding preamps or tubes with class D amps in order to reshape its sound signature. This is exactly what i will be doing with the 925s. Time will tell!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ok, so let me give you all an EASY explanation without getting too technical which i know bores alot of you here:
26db Gain vs 29db gain in amplifiers is NOT the same volume level at lower listening levels. The amp with 29db WILL ALWAYS begin to "sound off" BEFORE the amp with 26db does if BOTH are being used with the same preamp. This effect ends up keeping my huge panels "alive" at lower volume levels. 
Also, when i said "it drives my Neoliths with no problem" i failed to articulate further. I meant that it drives them within reasonable levels and it only shut down the amp when i was pushing close to 100 db. Did i hear clipping prior to shutting down? possibly did, but let's be honest here: MOST OF US can't really detect clipping with some of this high end gear. Yea, i can detect clipping if i blast my factory car radio rather easy, but that is not the level of equipment we are talking about. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Guys,
I said it on my video that the simaudio is on loan. I don't own it and it is now back with the owner. I have bigger plans and I DO plan to bring that amp back down the road. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
So today I realized how F**ing moody the constellation centaur 2 monos are. They are like a woman on their time of the month. They simply sound so-so certain days and then one day they come out of nowhere leave you breathless. They are really sounding insane right now. They have an ability to draw you in so badly that you forget to go to the bathroom to  take a p***.
Such an incredible phenomenon which I’ve never ever experienced with any other amplifier.

A couple of updates:
wireworld 8 speaker cable was returned ( will keep going forward with Odin 1)
arc 160m will be in my hands tomorrow( I will post pics for any doubters)
jeff Rowland 925s should land here next week.

Will gryphon be next? :) is there a pair of Mephisto monoblocks coming? Hahah


jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Odin 1 : it seems to sound more natural than the wireworld (with my current electronics of course). Odin seems to have tighter bass too but I do wish it had just a little more fullness in the mids. I tried other cables that helped in the mids but took away the gorgeous sparkle or tight bass. It’s hard to have one thing that does it all.
Personally, I love 3D sound with the imaging to match. I enjoy the level of realism and/or detail retrieval that my best amplifiers brought to the table.
I don’t like “dark” sound such as boulder, Classe, BAT, etc because they just don’t get me engaged. They really do NOTHING for me.

ps: the power issues mentioned above is something I’ve never thought about before. You guys might be on to something. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ron:
after doing many listening sessions with the Valhalla 2 IC, I didn’t think it did anything better than my wireworld platinum 7. Trust me, I tried HARD To like it but it never did anything to make me want to keep it. As far as the nordost Odin, that might be the way to go for sure. 

Viber: the only dark sounding class d amplifier I’ve owned was the theta digital Prometheus. The Classe amp2 is not dark sounding. 

ONE THING I HAVE LEARNED which you all need to keep in the back of your head: 
the more expensive the amplifier, the more demands it will place on your current electrical system. I’m not even talking about the amp drawing a lot of power but rather the amplifier’s ability to let you hear everything coming from the wall. It’s almost like a glass from the powercord all the way to the end of the speaker cables. 

One final update: there is the potential opportunity for me to personally review a secret amplifier that I won’t disclose what it is until I know it is happening 100%. I will be updating it once I know it is happening. Stay tuned .... 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks mrdecibel.
Being that this is my first time involved with turning a garage into a dedicated room, it’s tough to know exactly how to make the right decisions. I need to figure out the following:
room will be about 19x22

-how big of a screen can I fit while the Neoliths are on both sides of of the screen?
-should I sit on the shorter or longer wall?
-how many speakers can I fit? 13.2 or 11.2 layout?
-where will I place the dac, preamp, multi channel amps and other equipment? Will a rack off to the side of my listening position fit given my room dimensions? a friend of mine advised against me putting all my home theater gear in a wall rack because he said I will no longer be able to test drive other stuff. It will make it too hard to deal with so he recommended that use a stand that accommodates everything and put it at the 3 o’clock or 9 o’clock position from my listening chair. The position of this stand will also determine where the outlets will be on this particular wall.

I need to know how everything will be done above in order to properly wire the room, but I’m unfortunately clueless. If you all can give me pointers or a point of reference then I can certainly look into it and apply it to the layout.
I believe construction starts a week from tomorrow if all goes well. I’ve already picked out the carpet but I can’t decide on the right ac unit that won’t be crazy loud. I would prefer a split ac unit so that the noise isn’t inside the room but if you all know about a “window” ac unit that is quiet then please let me know. I know technology has come a long way so I gotta believe these “window” wall units are now much quieter than ever before.





jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks viber. I want for everyone to read my last post and chime in. I want to hear everyone’s input so I can begin to process things and figure out the layout. Ideally, I would only want the center channel and the monos right under the screen. Everything else would be in a rack or stand somewhere else in the room. 
I am thinking of wiring the room with wireworld (cheaper speaker cable for the surrounds) but if you all have options then please let me know. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
The ARC 160M are in the house! 
I am not sure if I will do any sort of listening tonight but I will try to. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks greyhound. I plan to use the big Martin Logan center which doesn’t mount. It’s meant to be used on the floor. As far as amps for the surround channels, I think class d will be best because it won’t take a huge amount of space. Of course I want to use a huge class ab amp but given my situation I think class d will fit better so that I’m not forced to buy a deep rack. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks for the input guys. It seems that there is a bit of conflict as to which wall I should use for my Neoliths. Some say the 22ft wall because it will allow for more breathing room for the speakers and for a bigger screen while the other camp is saying to use the short wall so I can be farther away and not have my back against the wall which will create bass problems. Both are valid points for sure. My goal is to have 2 rows of recliners (3 recliners per row) and choose the biggest screen my room will allow. I saw a cool room today in which the screen retracted and behind the screen they had acoustic panels. That’s a great idea but I’m not sure how good these retractable screens are.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I’ve just  posted pics  of the arc 160m 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Initial impressions using Virgo 3 preamp:
- smaller soundstage than block audio or constellation. Sound went from being a v8 to a v6. 

- beautiful mids 
- warmer highs than constellation and block audio 
- bass is about 50% or less than what I have with constellation
- imaging not as pronounced as with other amplifiers. 

i will try using the lampizator as a preamp and switching to the 8ohm connection instead of 4. For now, it is certainly not a match for the power hungry Neoliths. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I can’t believe I’m going to ask this but are ATI class D the only multichannel amps
that are affordable and good sounding? 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Unfortunately I can’t do that. The room must do double duty. Part of the reason WHY I am doing this is so that I don’t have to hear the wife tell me to turn it down at midnight when I’m doing my listening. I want to just go hide in the garage and blast it without worrying about anyone regardless of the time. The home theater has to happen because I want to be able to enjoy a good movie in a movie theater environment every now and then. I’m sick of watching a move using the tv speakers or in stereo mode through the neoliths. I want to hear the rumbling, the movie walking around my room, etc. There will be nights where I won’t do any critical listening but I’d enjoy a great movie perhaps. Lastly, I’m not sure why a 2 channel set up can’t live with a multichannel set up ? Either way, I’m going to have a screen or a big tv in the room. The room won’t be 2 speakers and that’s it. I want to watch tv in there too. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks Paul. I’m looking forward to those pictures. That software sounds very interesting and it would be awesome to play with. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I currently own the Krell kav500, Classe amp2 And anthem p5 available for surround duty... that’s 12 channels. 
That said, I’ve thought about the possibility of using 3 inwall speakers behind the screen so that my neoliths don’t get used at all for movies. This way the entire room will have inwalls for movies and just the neoltihs for surrounds. There won’t even Be a center channel speaker on the floor at all since it will be behind the screen. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I plan to give home theater a try. If my 2 channel sounds WORSE than what it does right now then I’ll undo my home theater. I just CAN NOT SEE WHY my set up would sound worse than in my current room even with a screen and surround speakers. I can’t imagine that being the case. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I just plugged in the Audioquest dragon hc powercords in the constellation Monos and my initial impression will come soon. These are 9,000 dollar powercords by the way. I borrowed these to see what they do so I’ll keep you all informed!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Momentum is dialed in to sound clear but it is leaning towards the sweet side of things. Yes it has resolution, air, detail, etc. It is by no means in the soulution, gryphon, block audio camp.
Some manufacturers attempt to add punch to sweet amps but it almost never results in the same type of punch. For example, Dartzeel is extremely sweet and beautiful sounding but what’s the biggest knock ? Bass....that said, im sure if you own their $160k monos then bass isn’t an issue. This is no different than the Dan agostino relentless Monos which have the sweetness, power, dynamics and anything else you wish for , but this is why they are $250k. Point im trying to make is that often times amplifiers that execute sweetness, dynamics, slam, attack etc in perfect fashion are huge money; These usually are their top end models:
Constellation Hercules
Relentless
Dartzeel 468




jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Mrdecibel:
how can you compare the purchase of 2 power cords(which I have not bought) to the purchase of an entire home just to listen to music? That’s like saying you are buying $4,000 rims for a car and me saying why not just  buy a $100k Mercedes which comes with the same size rims as the $4k rims you’re trying to buy? 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Audioquest Dragon HC powercords:

- longer decays
- deeper soundstage
- greater separation
- microscopic detail retrieval
- more emotion
- with more detail retrieval, this pc will also expose crappy recordings. If the recording wasn’t recorded “clean” then it will also expose the garbage behind the music in the form of “noise or hiss”.

Overall, outstanding powercord. Unfortunately I don’t have 2 Odin 20a powercords to try on my amps so I can compare. I can certainly say THESE ARE THE BEST powecords I’ve had on my amplifiers.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I hate to use car analogies but they sometimes help in understanding certain things:
if you put 93 octane fuel in your Toyota Camry, will it run faster in the 1/4 of mile? No right? 
What if you use race gas in a 1500 hp twin  turbo Toyota Supra ? Will it go faster Than if you used 87 octane? YES IT WILL.... better fuel is needed to sustain massive horsepower levels.. 
same thing applies with audio. The impact of an outstanding powercord such as the audioquest dragon or nordost odin will be there if you have a $3500 dollar amplifier BUT this impact  won’t be perceived as big as if you had better amplification. You might wonder, why would that be? Well because the cheaper amplifier will have limitations due to the smaller power supply or the quality of the internal components, etc. Better amplifiers have more “untapped” potential that can be unleashed by simply changing to a better pc or interconnects. When I was started this journey, I used cheaper components and wasn’t a believer in cables. I then began my journey with wireworld cables and it wasn’t until I moved to the silver 7 series that I started to detect a different sound or flow. Once my ears heard this, I didn’t stop and now I find myself with odin 1 speaker cables and Odin 1 powercords. 
One thing I will say is that some amplifiers tend to be less affected by powercords than others. For example, the pass labs 350.8 really didn’t change much when I tried different power cables but class D amps tend to be EXTREMELY responsive to powercords. 
I can assure everyone here that cables make a difference. If you are buying great components and have amazon cables, you are essentially buying expensive shoes and wearing socks with holes in them. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Greyhound
i am looking for something more current.  Both models you recommend are now becoming of age.  They’re great processors though. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Odin 1 Speaker cable vs Wireworld Platinum:
the odin 1 has more of a natural presentation with tighter bass control. It does not have the same soundstage size as the Platinum 8, but you don’t find yourself missing anything either. I will say that the Odin WILL be more transparent and if you have crappy cabling or a front end, it will not forgive you. The Platinum 8 speaker cables will sound great and is more of an "easier to live with" cable because it won’t hold it against you if you dont have expensive cabling throughout the system. I also find the Odin a bit more liquid in sound and clarity.
One thing though, the Odin speaker cable needs at least 450 hours of break-in time or else you will hear quite a bit of brightness. Easier to live with? the wireworld Platinum 8 if you dont want to get better cables in the rest of your system. More Accuracy? the Odin is more of the real thing. It won't cover holes in  your system the way the platinum cable will. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Viber, 
i think you are assuming A LOT with your previous statement about the AQ having more detail and the odin being overpriced. i can't really say that myself and i have both here in my home. This is WHY i made it clear that i DO NOT have 20a odin powercords to do a fair comparison. Having one mono connected with one cable and the other mono with a different cable does not really help you gauge things ESPECIALLY with cables of this caliber. Now, if you told me to connect one amazon powercord in one amp and a 9k pc on the other amp then that would be different, but at this level of gear it becomes HARDER to pick them apart. The gaps ARE NOT HUGE between these components. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ok, so in regards to my room:
i would love to just make it a 2 channel room, but I KNOW MYSELF and i wont sit down there for 12 hours straight listening to music. At some point, i will want to switch gears and distract myself with a show on Netflix or a movie, etc. Some days i am tired and i don't want to listen to music because i can't hear really well (that is normal when i am tired), but maybe i am in the mood to sip on a drink and watch a kick @ss movie like John Wick. i would like to share with my family a few movie nights without having to go to a movie theater all the time. i HATE watching movies on a tv unless it is just a movie that i don't care about.
 i go to the movies about 5 times a month with my wife so YES it would make sense to have a theater room in there because i know it will get as much action as my 2 channel rig. 
Lastly, even if there is interaction with surround speakers and my 2 channel experience being impacted by it,  I STILL THINK that it will sound better than in my current room no matter what. i will be able to add acoustic treatment there, put speakers upside down if i feel like it. i would be able to try ANYTHING i want in there which isn't something i can freely do in my current room. 
i am right now considering spending money on in wall speakers for the entire room including front left, center and front right which might end up behind a perforated 120 inch screen. i am visualizing turning on my home theater and not having to use a single component/speaker from my 2 channel. i am not planning to use the neoliths for front left and front right. Instead i want to buy some efficient in wall speakers that will be right behind the wall and the screen and maybe a Denon 8500H 13.2 receiver to drive all in wall speakers. This will allow me to not have to spend $10k on a processor and then another $20k in multichannel amps. My goal is to NOT overspend on the amp/processor because i need to buy the following:

- 4k projector
-120 inch perforated screen
-furniture (stands, chairs, etc)
-probably longer xlr runs for my 2 channel which won't be cheap since i am using platinum 7 xlr and i want to keep it in the platinum models
-about 6-8 in wall speakers ( i already have about 6 Martin logan in ceiling)
- 2 Jl audio subwoofers (probably F113s)

Do the math above and tell me approximately how much money i am talking about... 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
As i mentioned during my video, i plan to eventually change a few categories. They are not set in stone, but i wanted you all to have my overall feeling on the simaudio 860v2.
Yes, i would take this amp over any hegel, krell, mark levinson, bryston, etc, etc.
i am not going to compare it to Luxman because it sounds NOTHING like luxman or momentum. I can’t punish the luxman or momentum for perhaps not having the same "muscle" as the simaudio because then i would have to punish the simaudio for not having the same degree of silkiness, smoothness or romanticism that exists in luxman and momentum. It would not be fair. I LOVE both amps in different ways because they both take me away in different ways. We have already been over this; THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE PERFECT SPEAKER, AMP, PREAMP ETC, ETC. If i wanted to punish the Simaudio then i just need to turn on my Gryphon and then have a long conversation about how much better the mids, highs, lows, etc could be on the Simaudio when i use the Gryphon as comparison, but then that is not fair either because they are different price points.
In short, there needs to be categories:
1. Vodka
2. Tequila
3. Whisky

None of them are remotely close in flavor but they all get you tipsy. Do we criticize the guy/gal who prefers to take tequila shots because he/she loves how it burns on the way down? Do we punish the guy/gal who loves Vodka because it is what is used for Martinis?? I tried Whisky and i can’t seem to like the flavor...

In short, there is no "universal" amp that trumps all. I’d love to own the Dan D Agostino Relentless and maybe a pair of Mephisto monos so i can have probably the best of both worlds (this is an example fyi)
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
That’s an accurate statement above. 
Not that it would make any difference to anyone. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Well, if I'm being honest I almost had a pair of focal stella evo in my hands 2 months ago and the deal fell through....so that's that 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Viber,
To summarize things here, I think what everyone is trying to say to you here is that you tend to “push” your own opinion on gear you’ve never owned or much less seen in person. This is what enrages many people here and why you get punished for it. I don’t like to push anything on anyone including things I’ve personally owned. Yes, if you ask me for an opinion about a certain component that I’ve owned then I’m going to give you my own without holding back. I also don’t want to break hearts when I give my raw, unemotional opinion about certain brands which is why I’ve ceased from posting harsh opinions about brands as of late.
That said, everyone here works HARD AS HELL to be able to put a system together, but if you are going to come and talk bad about certain components, make sure you can back it up with facts rather than preconceived opinions or be ready to pay the consequences...
Reading magazines educates you (somewhat) but NOTHING beats real world experience.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Let’s switch gears.
Tomorrow, the Jeff Rowland 925s arrive here. I will have a chance to do a good shootout this Memorial Day weekend which will be the last weekend in which I’ll be able to do  any critical listening because construction of the new room is supposed to begin next week through the end of June and I will have to bring some of the audio gear I have in the garage into
the living room which will crowd things in here until I’m able to put all the stuff In the dedicated room being built. This means that the  month of June will be pretty slow for me with updates other than perhaps how the room is coming along. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Well said dthst. Thanks for following this thread. I appreciate you posting here as well. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Jeff Rowland 925s & Constellation Centaur 2 both have enough hours on them. If anything, the Lampizator has the least amount of hours out of my components right now. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Jeff Rowland 925s pics have now been posted in my virtual system !
i plan to let them play music for at least 24 hrs before I do any sort of serious listening.
They’ve been traveling for one week so I know what I hear right now isn’t what they are capable of. Will update later !
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Yep. I remember now. Well they are back and playing music as we speak. Let’s see how much they transform in the next few days. The mids are smeared right now and not dead center as with the constellation. I expect for them to open up and sound more focused over the next few days. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Rowland 925s:
24 hours playtime and they are beginning to sound incredible. Here are a few things that stand out right now:

- CLARITY
- IMAGING CHAMP
- 3D that pops out of the speaker
- Bass isn’t on par with block audio or constellation centaur 2 (not now anyhow)

stay tuned... tonight will bring more thoughts. So far, this is a especial amp with panels. I knew I was on to something.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I can see this ricred... I am going to try different pcs and a bunch of other tricks such as changing the jumper position on the Neoliths to add more bass. 
As far as the gain I’m using, it’s 32db and I love it. I can hear tremendous amounts of information that wasn’t so apparent before. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks guys. 
Right now this is how everything is:

lampizator pacific 
wireworld platinum 7 and platinum 8 xlr
odin 1 speaker cables 
cardas spade to banana adapters 
Audioquest dragon hc pc on the amps
odin 1 pc on the dac 
constellation Virgo 3 preamp 
Shunyata alpha nr on the preamp 

I am contemplating the Rowland corus with the optional power supply but I’m starting to like using a dac as a preamp. I still
have to try the lampizator as a preamp. We will see what comes out of that experiment. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Update:
the DCS VIVALDI 2.0 DAC is in the house!!
lampizator pacific va DCS Vivaldi 2.0 showdown !
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Greyhound:
i already had  my in-ceiling speakers purchased since last year (Martin Logan helos). I might round out the rest with Martin Logan in walls.


jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Guys,
i spent about 30 min yesterday trying to compare both dacs through the Virgo 3 preamp and this is a brief update:

- HARD AS HELL to pick apart components at this price point
- the lampizator has more volume output than the dcs even if I set the dcs at 6v of output.
- the lampizator is more versatile since it allows for network streaming, analog inputs (mine has optional analog inputs)
- the lampizator allows to change the flavor of the sound by rolling tubes
- the lampizator is far more beautiful
- the dcs can improve its sound by adding the crazy expensive components that make up the system.
- the lampizator is faster at switching to the next song. Virtually no delays between songs. 

tonight I will try to do some listening to see how each sounds as a preamp. That might be a different dog fight but for now I will probably give the edge to the lampizator for overall value/performance.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Riaa,
ill need to perhaps roll tubes on the lampizator. I might borrow some 300b from a friend. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thanks for the feedback folkfreak. I have this dac only for a few days. I need to return it to the owner who also wants to borrow my lampizator. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Do you have any 211 or 2A3 tubes ? 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Rel builds good musical subs but the s5 were no jl audio fathoms... the sledge hammer attack wasn’t there with those but maybe if I went up the ladder then things would be different. For now, I still
prefer jl audio... Maybe the no25 sub would
be what I need ? 
More to discover