Agreed - that review does not excite me at all about those amplifiers, especially considering the price.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by thezaks
WC, You have a nice thread here, and most folks are trying to enjoy it and discuss equipment. I think the only unfortunate thing is when folks make judgments on others, i.e. saying whether their posts are qualified or not, etc, as well as name calling, like snowflake, etc - all of which leads to arguments. I saw that you mentioned "...the thread has derailed" and "turned into arguments" on the previous page and that you put some of the blame on yourself. My recommendation, since you are the OP, is to let folks know if there’s discussion you would prefer for them to take elsewhere. I know you are super nice though and probably do not want to get into it with anyone. Looking forward to your next step in the journey, as well as the equipment discussions in the meantime. Dave |
I just googled it, and Guitar Center has a used Rane ME 60 for $89.99. Honestly, I think it would be cool for WC to pick that up and give it a shot. I know the Audiophile thinking is often that less electronics in the signal path is better, but for that price, WC could experiment while waiting for the next leg of the journey. All up to WC, of course, but there's really not any risk here. Dave |
@viber6 My last post regarding the Rane ME 60 for $89.99 on Guitar Center's site was not for my benefit, but as a suggestion for something that WC could try - really no risk involved with this purchase - no reason not to try it. Plus, considering WC's recent post about bass, he just might be able to tailor the bass more with this unit than with trying different amplifiers. Dave |
@viber6 Two thoughts I came away with from your post: 1) You don’t seem to agree with me that WC should try the Rane - there’s . 2) For my application, I’m not sure how I would substitute the Rane for my Theta Casablanca IV? The Rane does not have hdmi inputs, nor does it have the processing of the CBIV. Perhaps I’m not understanding what you are trying to convey? Dave |
@dan6054 I had the Plinius Odeon amp - Ultimate Upgrade edition. I did not like it at all. I then had the McIntosh MC8207 - nice sounding, not harsh, and fairly dynamic. I wanted to try the Krell Chorus 7200, because a reviewer had mentioned to me that it was better than the ATI signature and the ATI class D amps. I was then told that the newer Krell Theater 7 had much better sonics than the Chorus 7200. I was concerned about the lower wattage ratings of the Theater 7, however, I was assured that the Theater 7 would provide about the same amount of current as the Chorus 7200. I now have the Theater 7, and it is the best amp I have had in a very long time. Definitely a keeper - I can now just concentrate on cabling. By the way, I really like the Audioquest Hurricane 20 amp power cord with the Theater 7. I've also tried the WW Silver Electra (with and without the upgraded silver plugs), the Krell Vector HC, and the Cardas Clear Beyond, but the Hurricane is the best in my system. Dave |
Opinions regarding equipment, even repeated ones, are OK with me. Even if I get tired of seeing repeated posts on something, I can just skip the posts - easy enough. Why complain about it? Each of us have equipment that we might be passionate about and want to have WC try out. For example, I keep seeing repeated posts about the CLX, Merrills, Tektons, etc. Who knows, maybe the Lyngdorf folks are tired of hearing about those. I too had suggested a Lyngdorf product at some point in the pages of this thread. And, it was really inexpensive too, especially considering the prices of amps and speakers that WC has been evaluating. The Rane EQ was also suggested - at a ridiculously low price. Some folks are purists and do not want to try these products, and I believe that WC falls into that camp. Opportunities have arisen that are easily with reach for WC, and he has passed on all of them. It's obvious to me that he will never try one of these types of products. However, I don't penalize folks for continuing to try :-) Dave |
In some recent posts, some folks have mentioned about certain reviewers not being able to fully endorse lower cost equipment, etc, etc. That's what has me curious about WC. WC is not locked into that and doesn't seem to care if he bucks the system. He shares his thoughts on speaker and amp decisions, and it all makes logical sense - he needs to definitely consider the resale. Still, there are some products which are fairly negligible in cost, and not only has WC not bought these products to try, but he has not even mentioned whether or not he will ever be interested in trying them out. His prerogative, of course, but considering how much he shares with his thoughts about speakers and amps, I find it interesting that he basically has zero to say about things like a Lyngdorf device to add RoomPerfect, or a Rane EQ? No mention of anything regarding Tekton speakers either? These are inexpensive products that may or may not improve the listening experience. They are also low risk. I think the Tekton's even offer a 30 day guarantee. Yet, WC will not say a word about any items such as these. To me, WC seems to be just as non-committal as some reviewers, when it comes to some items. Sorry, but that's how it comes across to me. I would love to hear from WC as to why he would not want to consider products such as these (and possibly others too). Dave |
Makes sense WC, and I think most all of us would agree that we typically do not take steps backwards for ourselves, so why should we expect that from you. However, regarding the Lyngdorf, it's not an amp or speakers or a step backwards, it's a supplemental piece of equipment to help get the best sound from the room via RoomPerfect. I know you've had the McIntosh MX processor with RoomPerfect, so it's not that you are unfamiliar with RoomPerfect. The only problem was that it was tied to a McIntosh HT Processor preamp, which isn't even close to the preamps you have been playing with. It would be interesting to drop a RoomPerfect product in between the preamps and amps that you have been recently playing with. At that point, you would be evaluating RoomPerfect as a supplement to the already terrific sound you are getting from the preamp and amplifier. I really don't think that the MX experience applies, due to the lower quality preamp. Again, it would be interesting to get your take on the Lyngdorf.... Thanks,Dave |
Looking forward to it WC! By the way, I agree that the Audioquest Hurricane is a special power cord - I have one for my amp. I had the NRG1000 at one time and was not impressed. I'm about to get another Hurricane for my HT processor. I previously had WW Silver Electra's, including the upgraded ones with the all silver plugs. They seemed to be complimentary with the McIntosh amp I used to have, but now that I have moved on from the McIntosh, the Hurricane is the one I am keeping. Dave |
You might have heard the phrase - "the proof is in the pudding", and WC here has repeatedly provided his subjective proof. He can make these claims, because he's actually heard it. Some folks scream "confirmation or expectation bias", but honestly, the folks who do these comparisons (like WC and myself included) are typically very critical and don't want to have to spend money on more expensive cabling, etc, unless there's enough proof to convince us. So, you're saying it's a ridiculous claim, but until you experience it and hear what WC hears, your claim is actually the ridiculous one. Dave |
I agree with the Soulution comments from mrdecibel and hedwigstheme- I had always thought Soulution would be an interesting brand for WC to try. I'm wondering if he's just referring to what he's heard at shows, dealers, or someone else's system, OR, has he had a Soulution amp in his home system? Dave |
I definitely agree with brhatten and grey9hound, with regards to the apples to oranges comparisons that are being made. Comparing the bass of the Sasha 2 to the Neolith is exactly that - apples to oranges. And the Tekton Lore doesn’t even have near the 7 tweeter array, which is what should be compared to some of these speakers. brhatten mentioned that you can’t say you know how they will will perform until you try them. I agree completely. Question for WC: If someone were to bring over a pair of Tektons (like the Double Impact SE’s, Encores, or Ulfberht Be’s that brhatten suggested) and they blew away the Neo’s, would you want to keep them? If yes, then you fit the concept of buying them on a trial. I suspect I know the answer. The goal for WC is not a final destination - it’s all about the journey. Therefore, when buying Tektons , it is imperative that he be able to get at least most of his money back when selling them later. He’s probably researched the market and has found that the resale is not great. Therefore, WC is just being honest when he says he will never try Tektons. The only alternative is to buy a used pair of Tektons, for which one could sell for nearly the same amount. There happens to be a used pair of upgraded Double Impacts (1/2 way to an SE) available on A’gon right now for a lower price. This might be a way to try Tektons without the risk. Dave |
@sqitis I no longer have a dedicated preamp. I'm back to just a home theater processor - currently, the Theta Casablanca IV with Xtreme 3 DACs. Come back here and let us know if you do the upgrade for the SLP-05. Dave |
I agree with the previously mentioned brilliance vs brightness. I definitely like hearing a natural brilliance, rather than artificial or overly done brilliance, which comes across as bright to me. Also, the Gen 3 of Emotiva is a different amp than the Gen 2's - I'm not sure it would be fair to eliminate the Gen 3 as an option, based upon one's experience with a Gen 2. Plus, they offer a 30 day eval, so experience can be easily obtained. I had a 7 channel Gen 3 for the 30 days, and even though I ended up returning it, I was mightily impressed with it. In the end, it was a little bit thin (not bright) for me - I wanted a little more weight in the presentation. However, for someone who has a limited budget, I think the Emotiva is a terrific value. That previously mentioned Mytek Brooklyn would also be interesting to check out as well - again, for a limited budget. If I was budget limited, I would get the Gen 3 Emotiva again and pair it with a power cord that adds a little weight to the presentation. WC - I hope you can get the 200.5's again - I'm sure they'll come up on Audiogon. Dave |
@viber6 I mentioned a power cord to help with the weight of the Emotiva’s presentation, since I’m coming from a 7.1 home theater perspective. I agree with you for 2 channel setups - it would be easy enough (and cheap enough and simple enough) to check out the EQ. For 7 channels, however, It’s much easier and cleaner (in my mind) to do one power cord for a 7 channel amp than it is to have four eq’s, + four more power cords, etc. You might think differently, and that’s OK. @mrdecibel You told someone to not bring in fuse suggestions and to let WC complete his amp journey. The only problem is that the journey has already been at least 2+ years (that we know about) and may well continue for a good long time. Fuses are cheap/easy enough to try. I honestly think it should be WC’s decision. Dave |
@viber6 Yes, I did try the Emotiva in two channel, as I do all of my amps. I also noted the little bit of thinning in 2 channel, but I was also amazed at how good it sounded. Good to know that the Reference might be fuller sounding. I also agree with the logic of having a 2 or 3 channel amp for the L/R and maybe center channel, and then another amp for the surrounds and maybe center channel. I’ve had that in the past with Cary and Pass Lab products. I’ve also had Cary and Pass Labs preamps for two channel and utilized the unity gain for HT. It’s probably the best way to go for sure. Once kids came along, I realized I don’t have time for 2 channel, so HT became the priority. If I play music, I play it 7.1. So, I wanted a really decent 7.1 system. The Theta Casablanca IV with Xtreme 3 DACs works very well for this scenario, after having gone through 5-10 processors. And, I’ve been going through 7 channel amps as well. I now have one that is making me happy and is allowing me to move on to cables, now that I have some good components. I actually agree with mrdecibel - I would not want to try a fuse upgrade until I found the amp that I liked. However, others might choose to do differently. Dave |
Hey WC, You mentioned "tinkering" for the analog setup, but you've also done some tinkering with the digital side of things - including the Nordost router, power cable setup, etc. Seems like there's always tinkering that can be done. The big advantage of digital though is the convenience and ability to quickly get the music you like to listen to and/or use in the system. Will an analog setup be that much better that it isn't as bothersome to have the inconvenience with getting music? Looking forward to your take on things. Dave |
@bigddesign3 You could try the Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme speaker cables at $649 for an 8’ pair. Bob is the owner and lives here in Phoenix. Terrific guy! Right now, he has a Black Friday special still going on A’gon here - the 8’ pair for $399 with a 30 day money back guarantee I believe. Worth checking out! Dave |
+1 on the Audioquest Hurricanes. I had a previous (previous to the Storm series) gen of power cord (NRG1000) from Audioquest and was not impressed. There's definitely something different in this series of cords, so I for one would not make a general statement on AQ power cords, based upon the cords previous to the Storm series. I'm also trying out the Cerious Technologies Graphene Matrix power cords right now (breaking them in), so I will eventually make the comparison between those and the Hurricanes. Dave |
@whitecamaross In reading your posts, I’m not totally clear - are you comparing the sigma NR’s to the stock cables or to the WW cables? I agree about wishing that cable manufacturers would do break in on the cables, so that a few day’s in one’s home is all that is needed to check it out. If it truly takes 1000 hours for some cables, then the 30 day eval doesn’t quite get you there, even if you run them 24X30. I guess that’s one reason why I buy used cables whenever I can vs. new cables. Dave |
@mrdecibel - you welcome the guy back, and then you tell him ’Do not..." and "you need to..." - conveying to him what he should and should not do. You also mentioned "We are not here for you." Yet, you are the one laying ground rules for this guy. When WC voices that he prefers things a certain way and wants to lay down some ground rules, then I will certainly respect that and help to support it. I like posts like riaa’s most recent post, where comments are made on the equipment being discussed, not on the person. Dave |
What I find interesting is that grey9hound does not seem to recognize that his comments were negative. Perhaps he genuinely did not intend for them to be negative, but they are negative. I’ve seen some folks in the past that have made negative comments, and when they re-read what they wrote and recognized what folks were talking about, they apologized for it. I don’t see that happening here with grey9hound, so it’s best to move on - the logic pointed out to grey9hound is just not coming across... Dave |
Thanks for sharing that grey9hound. I agree with viber6 that I don't want an overly cavernous soundstage that is not real. And, I agree that tubes aren't necessarily rolled off - depending upon how something is designed of course. The most real system I ever heard was tubes. It was really 3D and did not sound rolled off at all. Even knowing that though, I don't want to mess with tubes (I've had them - a Cary SLP05 preamp), especially since I no longer do 2 channel, so I find myself gravitating to solid state amps (along with my Theta CBIV) and cabling that takes me towards that sound, along with dynamics to handle the home theater. Dave |
@viber6 So, going with the items you've mentioned about different violins and rosin on the bow, then, in order to determine accuracy of a violin recording on a sound system, one would almost need to know these factors about the violin/rosin, etc used in the recording. Also needed would be whether or not the engineer eq'd anything to compensate for harshness or softness or sweetness, etc. It would seem that determining accuracy in a sound system might be very difficult, based upon these parameters. This makes objective a bit more difficult. Perhaps subjective then takes over, and for some, it's their subjectivity that factors into attempting to reach a certain objectivity. Dave |
@tjassoc You bet - lots of folks will feel the way you do. Your subjective preferences for the type of sound you like become the objective sound you want to get out of your system. I can see both sides. My dealer years ago had YBA CD players, as well as Cary, Oracle, and others. Some of those players were more neutral and transparent. The YBA CD1 dual chassis had the emotional connection for me and was the one I ended up with. I had that player for years. Now that I am away from 2 channel, I strive for a sound that gives me both sides of the equation. If I have to lean to one side just slightly, it will be the emotional side. That’s my preference, and I know many would prefer otherwise. Dave |
@viber6 It depends upon a person's perspective and preferences. The pluses/minuses might be tolerable and not "horrible" to some folks, and thus appreciated. For others, it might be "horrible" or at least - not liked as much, and a little sweetness to make it overall pleasing might be their preference. I agree with WC - I want songs from my earlier years to sound good overall, which for me, might mean a tad of sweetness. Dave |
@ricred1 You used the word "everyone", and I would disagree with that. Especially since I also agree that it has to do with how the components compare in the system/room as a whole. It's not an absolute - just because it's better in one system/room, might not mean it will be better in another system/room. However, I think WC has done a great job identifying how components work better with certain systems and preferences, based upon the sonic attributes. It's your choice to stay or leave. Dave |