2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by speedbump6

speedbump6
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Tecno, why don’t you start your own channel with equipment you buy so we can hear what you’re saying for ourselves. Jay has put his money where his mouth is. I’d love to see you show us what you’re saying so we can hear it like we can with jays systems. I think that would be a fantastic idea.
speedbump6
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So no more smoke, mirrors, or black curtains? 
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I believe he’s said why would anyone need more bass, but that was said sashas also, lol. Don’t think a sub is in the cards. 
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Techno, I have a 14b3. No, it does not compare. Damn good amp, and great at its price point. But a mephisto beater it is not. 
speedbump6
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The bystander is great, by comparison to many other amps. The power really helps wit the bass control, it is clear, transparent. The mephisto is on a different level. Everything is more dynamic, more there. It’s Bass control makes the Bryston seem like weak by comparison. It’s not, but..... there’s more of everything avaible with the mephisto, and the dealer I heard it at did not have it set up or properly matched the first time I heard it. The sound was unbalanced. They’ve had time to play with it and the second time it was so much better. It didn’t annoy me with over emphasis in some ranges. Every range was fuller, and more dynamic, more lively, and better controlled than the bryston. I love the bryston, works great for my home theater, have two, one not used yet, waiting on the moabs for the rears. 
speedbump6
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Typical throughout the forum I’ve seen
speedbump6
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Jay, techno can’t afford the 93 octane much less the viper. Best way to make yourself feel good about that is to put down the viper I suppose, lol. Poor guy,  can someone have an old unused iPhone the could send him so he’d have a decent dac/ streamer?
speedbump6
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Viber I do think better parts can and do indeed make a difference. The end result boils down to how they’re implemented. If this were not true, there would be a slew of Chinese knockoffs of the high end equipment, that sounds identically because they copied the circuit designs using much cheaper components. Price alone of course is not a reflection of a good end result. 
speedbump6
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It seems to bother some people when their ideas are not used by Jay. Look guys, it’s his journey and his money. It seems some people are still confused about what he is doing after all his explanations. It’s very apparent he does not need the income from the YouTube channel, though it wouldn’t hurt to offset some of the expense. There is no way he could cater to everyone’s ideas, and some people think their way is more right than others. Or that there is even a right and a wrong way. I don’t believe anyone is going to convince him to take their path, as then it would no longer be his journey. Sure, I think he listens to the comments and that might bend him a little here and there, and help direct where he goes next. If you can’t enjoy what he’s doing because it’s not your way, then this thread and the channel are not for you. And that’s ok. He’s said this many times. 
speedbump6
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SR is what I’m using in my systems, so would be intresting to see how they fare compared to others that jay uses. 
speedbump6
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There are many YouTube channels that I subscribe to that give traditional reviews of more affordable equipment. I also watch ones that demonstrate higher end equipment. Because jays equipment is more expensive than many can afford dosnt mean that he’s showing off. If you go back to the start of this thread he wasn’t at the level he is today, and I’m sure his journey started off well before this thread and his earlier equipment was even more mundane. It seems to me he’s in search of what makes for better sound. That’s a never ending journey and there are endless paths that can be taken. There is no way to be so thorough that he covers every path along the way. Some people are more into the minute details as they go, and some seem to be looking to find the answers as quickly as possible. And then so many ways in between those extremes. Last I looked there were 1,700 subscribers to his channel. With all the possibilities, he would have Zero chance of covering all the bases, and even if he tried, would it be fun doing so. Unless that way provided a very healthy income,why would anyone do what he does if it wasn’t for the enjoyment derived. Take that away and there’s no channel. 
speedbump6
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I don’t think the videos started at the same time as the thread did, they seem to be much more recent, unless I’m missing something. New speakers will be intresting. In the early 2000s is when I started into high end audio, or higher end than a few hundred dollars of equipment. I started with psb and a Sony reciever. When I heard police radios in the courtyard of my townhome while watching law and order, and took me thirty minutes to realize it was in the background of the tv show, not in my courtyard, I was hooked.
my next setup was a surround setup of higher end Martian Logan’s in my living room with their top sub at the time, the depth I believe. Great resolution. Wonderful, elevated to another level. Then I decided to build a dedicated home theater, and listened to many speakers, bw, von schweikert, linn, etc etc. while I was waiting to listen to the top linns, they put me in a room with the Vandersteen 3As. Wow, blew me away. I listened to the linns and was much less than impressed. Listened to the Vandy 5As , this bigger would be better, but the 3s just had more soundstage and something I could not define that no other speaker I had heard to that point. So I put together a system for 7.2 sourround at a time when 5.1 was considered state of the art. While I loved the Logan’s, and loved cymbals, and their precision, they didn’t have the dynamics, slams, and soul that the Vandys had. Now over 15 years later, I’m quite sure the Logan’s have evolved substantially come what I’ve read, while the Vandys have had no real updates. ( not that they needed any and I’d love to own them again to compare) I had considered the 15As when I started back into the hobby again recently after being absent for a decade, mostly due to the economic downturn, getting married and just life in general. I’m excited about the new addition and anticipating their audition in the system. I think most people feel speakers give the single biggest differences in sound. Maybe someday the Tekton’s will get their chance also, lol. 
speedbump6
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Yes viber, I don’t think more expensive is always better, though I bet most people would say the 5A is better than the 3A. It’s just how it worked out for me in that case. Tecno you will lead a sad life if you’re always envious of what others can do compared to what you can. There’s always someone with more. Learn to appreciate what you can do within your means and don’t worry about what others can do. I’d love a Bugatti, but I’ll likely never own one. But I don’t have to disparage those who can. I’m happy for them that they can. 
speedbump6
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Greyhound, he does it because he finds happiness in it. That’s been made very obvious if you bother to have read all of this thread. Tecno is just being a jerk, and that’s just how some people are. Jay has never denied that he pays less than retail, and if something isn’t his that he bought, he has said so. And, why does it matter? Why is it anyone’s business either way? He’s made no claims that would be refuted by the facts. From what he has said, I assume he does get good deals, I think he’s made that very clear. Who knows, maybe he makes a little from the sales of an item here and there once he’s down with it. Again, why is that any of our business? Has nothing at all to do with his channel and what he’s doing there. Maybe you wish you could do that also? Then do it. Does anyone think he’s making a mint doing this? Then you need a serious reality check if so. And even if he was, why does it matter? Dosnt take anything from what he’s doing. Stop worrying about how much others make, what they can afford, etc, just enjoy the channel as something you can’t get anywhere else, or ignore it if you don’t like it.no one is trying to force anyone. Why do so many on the forums feel the need to be rude, and try to disrupt civil actual convo about a subject. If you like something, you’re labeled as a fanboy,lol.  Some very small minds lurking here. 
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True guyl, I never understood why some people seem to think you’re not allowed to discuss your opinions unless you’ve heard, owned, owned with x other products in the system, etc. most have read enough of reviews etc to have had an idea to start a discussion. Problem is that they think they can define everything, and then try to exclude anyone who doesn’t agree with them, with a set of parameters that no on but them could meet. Since you didn’t hear it in my grandmas living room at 2pm on Thursday, your opinion couldn’t possibly be valid, lol. They've been told to start their own thread, and their own you tube channel so they can prove anything they wish to their own personal “fanboys”. Seems 
like they prefer to stay and pester here.
speedbump6
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Ron, tecno was only clarifying also, clarifying the level of childishness he is willing to display. Reminds me of a 15 year olds actions just to get a reaction. Jay may be incorrect In Assuming everyone here is an adult. The behavior on display is more like a spoiled teen. 
speedbump6
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Hey, Audiogon is finally back! Tecno, of course you’re confused. You’re not used to these names and the technical terms used in the higher end products to describe what we hear. Brands that’s you’re more accustomed to like Fisher and Sylvania, people use different terminology to describe their products sound. 
speedbump6
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Anyone have suggestions on best cables for a Sylvania system? Asking for a friend. 
speedbump6
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kps, not sure about zip cord. According to viber zip cord is pretty good. Not sure the Sylvania would be able to take advantage of a good cord like that. I own an appliance store so I figure I can cut the power cords off some old appliances we remove from peoples homes and my friend those. Speaking of which, where is our good buddy tecno today. 
speedbump6
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Seems like it’s been busy in here today. Personally I’ve just glossed over the longer posts that are repetitive, and move on to reading the next post, so what I don’t read dosnt seem to bother me. I don’t see viber as purposely trying to be rude so much as someone who does see the audio world through his personal rose colored glasses, though I don’t think he realizes we all have our own glasses too, lol. Still think you should try the Patreon thing Jay, no reason why you can’t do both, and it would be a much larger revenue stream most likely. Maybe even make the higher levels so that they have access to this consulting thing. Some get earlier access to videos, or videos showing more of the back story to how things happen, etc etc.I have a few channels I do at the 200.00 a month level, their maximum. After 6 months one offers to do a video on your system that he airs in his channel, plus greater access with questions, and dedicated one on one time for x amount of time. I’m sure different channels do different things based on what they think might appeal most to their audience. I’m enjoying what you’re doing so certainly I wouldn’t mind contributing something to the cause.
speedbump6
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Tj, did you just insinuate I have faults? Lol. 
speedbump6
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Wow, now I’m wondering the need to be on this thread if  the mods are going to stifle discussion. I had a post removed that attacked no one. I did ask greyhound what he thought would happen to this thread if jay were no longer part of it. I sure didn’t mean nor perceive that as an attack on him. Just trying to point out that without jay, the reason for this thread doesn’t exist. The rest of us are expendable, people come and go over time, but that wouldn’t prevent the thread from continuing on its path. Fr9m that 
tecno your post above has many discrepancies from reality of things. Jay dosnt go for products because of an over abundance of bass. I don’t think anyone here feels the Maggie’s have that. When he had the DAWs he said he didn’t see what anyone needed more bass than those had. Though a number of people here have expressed that they do like the additional bass. Crazy wattage? I don’t think so. Maybe to some one who is only into SETs. There’s some much much more powerful amps avaible. Again jay has said that power alone is not what’s important. The reserve capacitance some of these amps have do make a difference he had said. If you’re looking for a thread on moderately priced equipment, this isn’t it. No one is under any obligation to provide that. So not sure why you think he should. There are tons of YouTube channels on that type of equipment, and much less on the higher end like jay does. I think most of us clearly understand what this is about. And that’s why we are here. It’s not an issue if you’re into different equipment, but it’s no reason to knock him for concentrating on what he wants to do. He’s not testing it right? Again, I think most of us understand what he is doing, and no, it’s not the same thing the guys at stereophile, the absolute sound, Steve Gutenberg, etc etc are doing. And by the way, they arnt doing what you’re describing either. He’s doing his own thing. Either you get it or if you don’t, then it’s just not for you. As has been expressed many times, jays way isn’t for everyone. It’s seems you obviously do not like any, or very little of what he does. I don’t participate in threads, or watch channels that can’t hold my interest, but that’s just me. I guess my time is valuable enough to me that I’d rather spend it on things I find to be fun. 
speedbump6
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Tecno, with all the vast knowledge that you seem to feel you have, why won’t you impart that to us with your own you tube channel. With the energy spent telling others how they’re doing it wrong, it seems it would be better spent showing us how to do it right. Instead of negativity, turn it into positive energy. Helping people gives me more self satisfaction then tearing them down. Making others feel bad dosnt do anything to make me feel better.
speedbump6
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Cant really compare the alexias to the Maggie’s, as they were shown with different setups, meaning cables. There are also open baffle speakers that are not stats. I have the Emerald Physics 4.7s in my bedroom. Nice speaker, but can’t say the difference was what I was expecting. From what the OB guys say, I was expecting a much bigger difference. Yes many box speakers do have a “boxy”  sound to them. I remember my Martin Logan’s having great detail, but lacked feeling, soul. This was around 2005. The Vandy 3As  never had a boxy sound
speedbump6
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It is too bad that they won’t do anything about this. I see posts which are nothing more than simple discussion get removed, yet someone whose only purpose is to ruin everyone else’s fun is allowed to continue with whatever they please. Which is why my previous comment about what is the need to remain on this forum. Any simple discussions bring out the trolls, and if you respond then you get posts removed.
speedbump6
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You can get those at Walgreens etc in many cases also
speedbump6
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Hey guys, let’s stop talking about who says what about dac, vs preamp, or arguing about any subject. We should be able to have a simple discussion on subjects, knowing we each have our own opinions and that’s ok. I like listening g to others ideas and why they feel the way they do, even when I may not agree. It gives me insight to their logic, and maybe let’s me see things differently.sometimes there’s more than one way, as jay mentioned above. It’s not always right or wrong, and in every case, it’s about what’s right for you, dosnt mean it right for everyone, but you’re the only one that matters on your own system. We need to understand we all have different needs and likes. 
speedbump6
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After going back and reading reviews on the Benchmark products, it does seem they are extremely good especially when considering their price point. I have thei DAC3 HGC as one of the many I have, and I have most of the flagship headphones avaible, and would probably add their HPA4 headphone amp if I didn’t already have the Woo Audio WA33 and their 3ES for electrostatic headphones. Even their amps seems to be excellent, again more so when considering price points. I might have to pick up those and the LA4 at some point for one of the extra room systems. 
speedbump6
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The problem with that idea, is that with as fast as technology changes, you’d have to constantly replace the dac/ preamp to have the latest, best sounding dac. 
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Viber, I believe your logic is flawed. Every piece of equipment, including your eq, even when engaged, adds its own signature to the total sound. Try different eqs, and you will find they each perform differently, therefore showing they do each add their own sonic signature. Some products add more of a signature, some add less and are considered “ transparent”. If all these transparent products are out there, why do they sound different? Because they’re not as transparent as we’d like to believe. The most transparent don’t always sound the best. And maybe listening to what comes direct from the source dosnt always give the best sound. It just may be what the equipment adds to the sound is what makes it enjoyable. To me every piece of equipment is an eq of sorts, but one with a set eq and sound, since it’s not adjustable, mostly. It never made sense to me that you had to take it or leave it as far as the particular sound signature a product produces, in the hobby. Personally I am not sure why there is such resistance to eqs, as some like more bass, some less, some are more affected by a too bright and harsh top end, that others might like for the detail. Yet we are supposed to buy different equipment with a different signature to solve that. It might be very difficult to find one with a sound that is prefect for you, while having some ability to adjust that might make a mostly good for you product turn into one the hits all your preferences. Some of us may have hearing deficits that an eq could help us with. Since nothing we listen to is exactly “pure” ,why not tailor the whole experience to our individual preferences. In the guitar world there are products that emulate amps, and effects. There are products that even professional musicians cannot tell emulation from the real thing. Wouldn’t it be great to have a product that allows us to have the sound signature of a Mephisto , any preamp you desire, and a DCS Vivaldi, all for 5k? It’s definitely possible. I’ve owned those products, though for me the interfaces are overly complicated, and could use some good interface engineering to improve that. You could experiment with any combination of equipment that had been “modeled” as they call it. Though that might put jay out of business with his channel. Sure would save him a ton of money though. There are plenty of you tube Videos and preset combinations that people share, to get a certain sound, say Aerosmith on Walk this way from the Toys in the attic album, so how the channel would be presented would be different. If emulators room over, would development of improved equipment, or sounds in the case, cease? Emulators have not taken over the guitar world en masse, as there will likely always be people who just wouldn’t believe in them even if a blind test could prove how well they worked, but they do seem to be gradually gaining steam. I doubt the audio world would go in that direction, but it’s sure something to think about
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And the Sasha daws were compared to the Scalas, and a Otto ally different setup as far as the supporting hardware. Possibly the outcome could be different, but I have found each brand to have an underlying tonal signature, which is why the Focals did not do as well in that shootout. But you never know until you try. I have the Fical Ultima line of speakers in my car system, and own both their Utopia and Stella headphones, so I’m a fan of Focal. I don’t believe that the maestros would win in a contest with the Alexia’s, but different people prefer different sound, so I’m sure for some the Focal would be a better choice. All you have to do now is convince Jay to bring in a set of them to find out. Good luck with that, sounds like it’s not happening at this point in time from the previous comments about what he’s doing. Hell, I’d even ship my tekton ulfers to him to do a shootout with those if he wanted to spend the time and energy on them. Just can’t do everything that everyone would like to see and hear. There’s only so much time and money. 
speedbump6
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Before I bought the Tekton’s, the golden ear reference were in the running for that particular setup.
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Terry London is a professional reviewer who is active here on the forum. His review, along with that of another reviewer, and both their ultimate purchase of the review samples is why I chose the Tekton Ulfers. The detail avaible, while not sounding harsh or bright, starts at the top, goes through the mids and all the way down to the 20hz level with superb layering. What sounds like a low bass sound, or thump, on many speakers, sounds like a bass guitar string being plucked, you can hear the fingers actually plucking the strings. Assuming a decent recording and decent, though dosnt have to be world class, supporting equipment. I haven’t had the chance yet to listen to them with that level of equipment, and can only imagine that it would get even better. I haven’t been able to compare them to my Wilson’s or BW 800s yet, but I’m thinking that the Tektons are likely to do very well, will be fun finding out for sure.
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Tecno, that’s not what he said. I seek high end and low end products in my store. I don’t think anyone is offended if I tell them a product that is ten times the cost of what they are looking at would be a better quality, longer life potentially, and way outperform it. And if they were offended, I think it would be better for them to find a big box store to do biz with, because they will think their low prices product should perform like a top of the line, and there’s no way I could satisfy them. It’s there a place and need for lower priced products? Of course there is. Not everyone can afford the Bentley, but most would be interested in knowing what’s the best for their budget. Also it could be that they want a secondary system for a bedroom, and already spent for the Bentley in the main listening area. 
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It’s just sad that seems to be the activity he enjoys in his free time. I don’t get off on trying to ruin anyone’s days unless they’ve seriously done  something to me. I’ve had an armed robber( same guy) sow up at my store three times in the last couple of months. I do wish to ruin his day if he tries it again, and he’s the reason for my renewed interest in guns after decades of getting rid of what I used to have. Will finally get my car back on Monday, he got shot at while trying to steal it a second time, and had extensive damage that has taken nearly a moth to repair. So yes I do feel the desire to ruin that guys day, and hopefully when the police find the time to prices the fingerprints, dna, and his cell phone he left in my car, they will find him and do just that. I just cannot believe that Jay has down anything to anger tecno other than maybe he didn’t rate something g he likes very well. Who knows, and seems childish. Part of what most of us like about what jay does is that he’s honest. Maybe my favorite doesn’t fare so well, oh well. Maybe that’s why all the professional reviewers seem to like everything, and the ones who give numbers to rate, everything is so close when you know that’s not correct. Don’t want to offend anyone. I prefer the honesty, and as always, Rember, it’s jays opinion and preferences that he’s posting. He says this over and over. It’s not meant to offend. The idea is to express ideas ( in a non negative and confrontational way). 
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Jetted, actually jay does ask for peoples opinions, and that’s a big part of what the thread it about. On the other hand what Ron said I believe is correct. If the equipment someone has dosnt get great marks compared to way more expensive equipment they take offense to it. I own some mac equipment, dosnt bother me in the least. What I own does fantastic at its price and for the purpose. I do not expect it to be compared favorably to my Soulution, or a Mephisto. Greyhound, because someone agrees with much of what Jay says dosnt make them a fan boy, nor should it be a negative. Just means they see things the same way, and I cannot count how many times jay has said that he is expressing his opinions, and that doesn’t mean it works the same for everyone. If the opinions are too diverse for anyone, I’d suggest finding a more entertaining thread. No one can police all the forum and try to control all the content they do not agree with.
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Tecno is back to the old MO it seems. Only here to criticize whatever Jay does. Hey I just bought four different rifle scopes last night, between 12k and 500.00 and then another two today. Why? To find out what they do and what I like. Some people just do these things because they can. I own over 100 guitars and nearly 50 guitar amps. Why does one guy need all that? Answer is, he dosnt. But I like the differences each one provides. A very few I really don’t like at all, but I hate the process of selling, boxing, shipping, responding etc, so I pretty much keep everything I buy. I’d say what jay is doing fits perfectly with what he’s said he is doing, and even then, over time, he’s changed his ideas of things as he learned more. Like his thoughts on racks. Why try to pigeon hole someone? It’s a journey and even someone who delves at the top of the hobby don’t know, and hasn’t heard everything. Let the rest of us who are Intrested in learning, do so. You’re not going to force anyone into your mold of what they should be, then they’d be you. Tecno I know I’ve asked you to start your own you tube channel so you can show us what you think the path should be. Hey, I’ll be one of the first to watch and see what you’ve got to show us. Just criticizing others dosnt give me the idea that you have something constructive to offer. I have a few ideas of my own, but I’m not the one expending the time, energy and money that jay is to do it, so until I am, I sit back, watch the show, and if any of my, hopefully somewhat constructive comments or ideas gets used, that’s great. If not, it’s ok, I’m having fun with things just as they are. I still don’t get why people who are so obviously against a subject continue to stay in a thread that they do not enjoy. Really makes no sense to me.
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my iPad is either connected to a woo audio wa11 portable dac, and then connected to any one of my many headphones, or wirelessly through the Hi-Fiman Amanda BTs. 
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I just realized something about the Pandora. Once it was added I did not notice any change at all in the way the Mephisto sounded as far as difference in tone, etc. the only thing I noticed is that the system sounded even more effortless and controlled than before, not by leaps and bounds, but enough that it was there. The whole idea behind a preamp is supposed to be to add nothing to the sound, the definition of transparency. Obviously that a first listen, with a product with very little time on it yet, but so far seems like it’s doing exactly what you want a preamp to do. Unless you’re wanting some coloration maybe to offset some weakness in the amp or speakers. 
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Lol. Right. He’s worried that it will destroy or equal the Pandora. From everything I’ve read the Benchmark is a fantastic product- at its price point, and I’m sure is able to beat many products that cost more than it does. I think everyone would love it if what you claim were true, no need to spend huge sums of money to get the performance level. So far I’ve yet to see anyone touting that it can beat the best of the best. Except for one distinctly unqualified and suspect biased opinion. Jay, not anyone has or feels the need to prove anything to you tecno. I’m sure most everyone else here has no doubts about that comparison. If you’re so sure, then put your money where your mouth is, don’t ask others to do so. You seem to be the one that needs to be convinced, no one else here has mentioned any interest. It’s not the Jay compares what tecno wants show, ( though I’m sure for the right financial incentive it could be) it’s the Jay buys what he wants( it’s his money after all) and is good enough to spend the time sharing all this with us show. Is the Pandora 15 times as good as the Benchmark? No. Nothing is. It’s called the law of diminishing returns. It’s the best of the best category. Benchmark can likely make claim to the best in its price point category. If you want value, buy the Benchmark. Probably wouldn’t get anyone to disagree that’s it’s a great choice at that point. It’s like trying to compare  a corvette,  likely the best at its price point, to a Bugatti. Let us know when you get your channel up and running so you can prove these things for us. 
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Tecno, even if he did that, you wouldn’t be happy with the results, so why bother. You’d have some conspiracy theory why he came up with the results he did, as you have many other times. He’s paid or compensated by the dealers or manufacturers seems to be a favorite excuse that’s been used. What you could do is buy the Benchmark, send it to him, add some funds for his time and effort, and then he might, maybe consider testing an amp that’s less than ten percent the cost in a heads up. That way you would be hiring him to be a paid consultant for you, to test out your ideas. What a great idea! Then you don’t have to spend as much nor take the time to create your own channel to test new theories. Glad I could help to get you guys on the same wavelength and creat some thing that would be mutually beneficial.
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Softballs, lol. A matter of opinion I’d say. Not technically correct. I’ve asked for the Eagles song Wasted Time reprise, which I look at as classical music and might fit the bill for you also left ear. Hasn’t been played yet though, so I will live with what Jay wants to play. I do agree with him that it needs to be something you’re familiar with, to know the system is affected by any changes. When I hear him use  a song I don’t know, I can’t really tell as much as one I know well. 
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Techno, have no idea why you think the Mephisto didn’t sound good with the Christine, but I think most of us thought it sounded fantastic. But there’s always better. Most people buy a car and just drive it, while some buy many aftermarket upgrades to tweak and make it even better. That dosnt mean the base car wasn’t a good car to begin with, but most are built to meet a price point, even high end cars. There are custom car shops all over for this reason. Your fine with your base car, while others want to wring out every ounce of performance they can. They’re not wrong for that. Also check out what a simple maintenance is on a Ferrari Enzo. Does that cost make it wrong or bad? And Ferrrai offered factory upgrades when it was new. Does that mean it was bad as delivered? We seem to keep having this same basic convo, and if you don’t get these concepts, then you don’t understand what the whole thread is about. There are products that are more forgiving of the source and accompanying components, ie mask the flaws in such equipment. The Luxman is one of those products, and therefore can match well with more preamps, days, speakers, etc. Your comment is like saying a Formula One car is no good because it’s twitchy, hypersensitive to input, dosnt have a smooth ride on pothole filled roads, in the hands of the normal driver. In the right hands, which the right conditions, it will reward a gifted driver with unreal performance, but neglect it in any way, wrong tires, wrong pressure, incorrect suspension setup for the track, and it will become an uncontrollable diva. If you want something you can just get in, turn the key, be comfortable in most any environment and be a good value, get a Toyota Camry. Expecting a formula one car to be practical is unreasonable. 
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And planes are planes and trains are trains. And a bear isn’t a lion. Analogies still hold true. I’ve road raced motorcycles, cars, and done competitive shooting. Some of the best guns for that type of shooting would be lousy for normal carry or hunting purposes. The best racing bikes would be totally impractical in stop and go traffic, or any pace less than full out. Putting the best street tires on one would totally ruin its chances of a great performance.Tecno, a car is a box of bolts, wires, electronics, and metal, etc before it’s put together. How well it works depends on the quality of the components and how well engineered the design is to work as intended. These are all mechanical and electrical products built designed and engineered by people to perform a certain function. So yes, the analogies are absolutely valid. No one has denied that you can get great sound by spending much less than gryphon. Thats  not the point at all. As with most things, there’s the law of diminishing returns. But if you are in search of that last 5-10 percent, and the nuances it brings, and have the pocket books for it, there are options. Most of my systems are not at that level, at least one is in the ballpark. I wasn’t considering price when I bought, I was looking at the results. I’d love to be able to spend much less and get equal results, would give me more money for my other hobbies. Viber, in no way would I call the gryphon euphonic. I own a few bryston products myself, so feel like I can speak about what it is vs what the gryphon products are. There are products even more detailed than the bryston, but some of those fall on the side of becoming annoying and not balanced. Yes, those details might be there, but they’re emphasized over other qualities that are also there, and no longer true to the original recording. The sound these gryphons are producing is too solid, not overly airy, not over emphasizing any one component of the music, to be called euphonic. You are zeroed in on a certain sound that appeals to you as an individual, and it works great for you obviously. I like many different types of sound, and find parts of each that I enjoy, though the Mephisto seems to have the best parts of most all wrapped into one. I find my krell and soulution systems to be more detailed than the bryston, so I personally do not consider the bryston to be the utmost in detail, though I do love what it does. It’s certainly not the smooth sweet sound of a Luxman. Of course, all these opinions depend on where you stand with your personal preferences, and we all have those.
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Depends on how loud you have it turned up, lol
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I remember having heard those same exact words tecno, was a very long time ago, when me and my brother were quite young, lol. Always blaming the other for “ starting it”. You might try reading some of the other threads on this forum if you haven’t heard others characterize others. You might read back some of your own posts in fact. If I were to believe your previous posts, anyone who talks positively about expensive equipment is only trying to hawk product for those manufacturers or their distributors.  I have seen on other threads where some will say people are just trying to justify the money they spent by praising it, though that wouldn’t work with Jay, he switches out gear more than some people change their underwear. So he’s obviously not married to anything he owns.  If you haven’t had exposure to other forums, or other threads on this forum, I can see where you how you might come up with that statement. Some people detest companies like Microsoft, Apple, and Google,  because of their power and wealth. They wouldn’t have that power and wealth though if they didn’t bring a good product to market that people want or need. I can see where the smaller companies may hate having to compete with them for sure. The biz I own is small, and it’s a tough world having to compete against the big companies and what they can offer. I don’t worry much about what they can do because of their money and scale, I worry about what I can do with what I have to make the most of that. I bring the same thinking to what I do in all aspects of my life, including my audio systems. I try to figure out what works best for my budget, and if Jay or anyone else can afford better equipment than me, I am happy for them. It has zero affect either way on what I can do, so why should it bother me? I’ve seen many threads on this and other forums praising expensive equipment, was wondering why you have chosen this specific one to bring negativity about that level of product to? 
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I think tecno and greyhound actually greatly admire you Jay, and just don’t know how to show that. I know I wouldn’t be hanging around posting if the statements they have made were what they really felt. Therefore simple logic and observation point to the conclusion i posted. I know when I was very young there was a girl I liked, and didn’t have a clue how to express that. So I pretty much just bothered her, I guess that was my way of getting her attention, lol. Fortunately I managed to get past that stage before I hit my teens. Now that we have a Boulder preamp, I know that synergy is a big deal, so therefore I wonder. Is there a Boulder amp joining the family, lol
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Lol, if alexia’s are the weakest link, then that’s a pretty strong weak link. Looking forward to the progression of cable changes. 
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Viber, you suddenly sound like tecno. I still have never heard Jay say you had to spend what he spends to get great sound, in fact just the opposite. Why the “ challenges” to “prove” something. Only three people I’ve seen now that you’re mentioning it seem to be intrested. Two do it just to annoy. I think you truly believe the Benchmark might actually equal the Mephisto. I’d suggest quit trying so hard to coerce him to prove things to satisfy a small number of people. He’s doing what he wants, not taking requests. The requests would never end if he tried. If you’re so truly interested in this comparison, buy one( maybe even buy one used on Audiogon to save a bit) ship it to him to see. If you end you hearing what you like, then when you get it back you can replace what you currently have In your system. The other problem I can foresee, if it dosnt sound so great, then will come the request to change some of the other equipment, for better synergy, as something will be deemed inadequate with those components.
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Viber, I wouldn’t even know how to post a YouTube video, lol. I’d have to figure that out, and knowing myself, would entail purchasing some higher end equipment to record with. With what’s going on in my biz, I wouldn’t have the time at this point to do that, but I think might be fun to if when I do have  the time. But I’ll be happy to give my opinion of the moabs when they show up, at the this point at least im hoping they’ll still show up. 
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