Hi all,
im now switching some cables around and I’m using a gold 8 wireworld rca for the dac and the platinum 8 rca that was used on the dac is now the cable being used to connect the preamp to the amp. I find the presentation better but I don’t know if it beats the dac being connected to the amp directly. It’s EXACTLY what I’ve been saying before; the preamp widens the sound and makes recordings that don’t typically sound good such as rap, r&b, 90s, 80s, etc sound more pleasant. It feels like
they are more impressive and smooth with great bass control. It’s as if the ref10 puts a layer of “butter” on the imperfect recordings and makes them sound extremely good. I also find the ref10 better when using xlr as the output cable rather than rca. It could also be the block audios just liking the xlr better.
That said, the dac has an insane amount of clarity especially at that 90db and under. It becomes probably a tad more liquid and with a deeper midrange than the ref10. If you want to listen to the neoltihs at levels where you just want to see how impressive the presentation can get then the ref10 does it far far better. It has that extremely loud volume that can make the block audios scream and show you their potential at loud volumes. In addition to that, you don’t get any fatigue because the ref10 doesn’t let that happen. It’s a pretty difficult situation because one does excellent at a certain volume level and the other one at a different level. It’s like deciding between a 1/4 mile race car or top end car. Do you want to beat everyone in the 1/4? Or do you want to fly by them at 130mph and leave them in the rear view mirror ?
Have you all ever watched a 1/4 mile race where one car keeps beating the other but that losing car was catching that car and if the race didn’t end at the 1/4mile mark then the other car would have passed the wining car? That is EXACTLY the best way to put it.
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Anyone here tried the KR PX4 tubes ? I was told by reputable source that those are the tubes to have with the Pacific DAC. Would like to get feedback from anyone with experience with those tubes. |
I’d recommend that you buy the Diablo. You got a pretty big room and the Diablo would help with the bass since those speakers are bass shy. Nothing is really lacking with the Diablo and you wouldn’t notice what I mention because you’d need to own the luxman in order to tell them apart. Both are great integrateds but have a different presentation. Gryphon is muscular sounding and luxman is sweeter sounding.
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Lemon haze;
what does your system consist of ? |
Rossini is special... WILL NOT DENY IT... Impressions to come ... |
You can get more gain from different tubes... |
Fsmithmack,
I’ve said it in my thread several times, Pass labs is inferior to the luxman 900u series unless you are talking about the expensive xs series. Nelson pass is sitting in his home retired and collecting checks. I highly doubt he did anything for the .8 series. There’s zero comparison between pass labs 350.8 and the luxman 900u. The 900u makes the 350.8 sound broken in comparison. You are talking 2 different tier groups. They shouldn’t be in the same sentence. I’d take the 900u luxman amp one million times over the 350.8. Get yourself the luxman 900u and don’t look back. You’ll thank me and those who told to get it.
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ron17,
i concur with your assessment of the sb301mk2 vs simaudio. You are spot on with your analysis.
denon1:
the 200.8 pass labs did not come through, but that did not change my opinion on the .8 series line. My opinion is based on facts as opposed to what a magazine said. I have had both here, the 350.8 and luxman 900 and both connected at the same time. I think i know a thing or 2 about those 2 amps he is inquiring about.
Lastly, you are comparing integrated units vs separate components. If you read his question, he is inquiring about the 900u pieces and not the 509x you are giving your opinion about. Let’s make sure we address questions exactly as presented and not formulating answers based on other models/components.
4425:
Any pass lab owner that disliked my comment about the .8 series can easily come to my home and bring any .8 amp of their liking along with napkins to wipe tears off their face from the punishment that a pair of 900u amps would do. The .8 series needs to be discontinued and replaced with something better. The .5 series was always the better series no matter what the general public wants to believe. (PLEASE NOTE: My opinions do not include the xs series. Lets make that very clear)
ONE MORE THING: My opinions are based on ACTUAL HANDS ON EXPERIENCE in my own space. |
To be sincere and honest, i don't think you can go wrong with anything that DCS makes... i just can't see WHERE you or anyone would be disappointed. My .02 cts. |
Through my own experience, NOTHING i have owned has sounded 100% like tubes. The momentum integrated and luxman 900u are the 2 that sound the closest to tubes that i have ever owned. |
@fsmithjack
i can say to you that the luxman will drive the Magico S5 Mk2 which by the way i have also owned. I have owned those components you are about to bring into your home. i am not speaking from a write up written by stereophile magazine.
A single luman 900u will work fine and give you a lot of hours of enjoyment, but it won't honor everything the S5 mk2 can give you. You need to scroll back a few pages and read my impressions of the magicos. You need POWER with them and they will reward you.
As far as preamps, if you don't own the ref10, then you need to go with the luxman 900 preamp. This preamp brings the most out of the 900u amp. However, i have not heard your preamp so i can't comment on how it will do with the 900u amp but i am assuming it should be a good match.
I do not think i have met anyone here who has been unhappy with the 900u amp unless they are playing with a mcintosh preamp, plinius preamp,etc and doing all sorts of crazy matches that i know factually would make that amp sound inferior. From experience, stick with the 900u combo and add another mono 900u down the road. It will massively improve your experience. |
Ladies and gentlemen,
Let’s get back on track. Ok, so for $hits and giggles I just bought a McIntosh mx160 with the room correction along wirh a McIntosh c2600 tube preamp. Techno,
are you starting to sweat now? Yep, your preamp is here but I don’t know if I will even connect it. |
Bhk 300 sounded good with my magico s5mk2. Plenty of detail and good bass control. I have nothing against the bhk300s as far as what they provide per dollar. Great bang for the buck. Will they beat a single luxman 900u? It is not that they would beat it because the luxman will still be a more refined and engaging presentation but if you know you won’t get a second luxman then I’d probably get the bhk300 because those speakers really need all the power you can afford but two 900u would stump on the bhk300s. Your situation is the speakers. If you had focal sopra 3s then I’d get the single luxman 900u because one 900u can easily drive the focals.
hope this helps |
Wesc,
I bought the McIntosh mx160 and c2600 in order to do what some have said to me before which was to incorporate room correction so the mx160 will do that for me. I plan to use it as a preamp and run the room correction and see what results I get. Soon after that experiment is done, I’ll try the c2600 so I can give a mainstream tube preamp a run here. Yes guys, these pieces are for those of you who wanted me to try “cheaper” components and give my input on them.
I’ve never owned the c2600 but I owned the c2500 and tbe mx160 before. Let’s see how they do now with the block audios and the Neoliths. :)
Now, can we all get along and continue to ride together? I’m trying to throw curveballs here by getting gear that you all didn’t expect me to get and it is Mainly so that nobody feels left out here.
Let’s keep rolling...
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I’ve owned the gryphon Diablo 300. Awesome with magico. Jump on it.
fsmith, you need to try to read at least the last 10 pages of my thread so you can gain as much knowledge as possible. You might be able to answer a lot of the questions you are asking. |
I probably won’t do that until tomorrow night. I’ll give my opinion on it once I do. |
Ok guys,
so i have held back for the past few months from saying anything because I thought this thread would sort itself out and everyone would just continue to follow the main objective of this thread which is to follow my journey whether it is a new dac, preamp, cables, speakers, etc. I’m trying more than just amps now because the pool is shallow and quite frankly I don’t see anything unseating the block audio monoblocks anytime soon. With that in mind, I want to put it out there: if you are consistently derailing the main purpose of this thread and are essentially creating your own thread within my thread then I want to politely ask you to begin your own journey by creating your thread and do as I have done for the past few years. When I started this thread I didn’t know if anyone would even read what I had to say and look how far it has come. I’ve put a ton of time and effort and yes money too into this thread from all the purchases I’ve made so out of respect to those loyal followers and myself please take your interests outside of my thread if it does not fit in. Begin your own journey and share it with others that want to read what you have to say.
Thanks |
Greyhound,
thanks for the info on the set up of the mx160. I plan to pull it out of the box as well as the c2600 but I’m quite busy with the family. Not sure if I’ll get to it this weekend. |
C2600 is plugged in and idling at home. I’m at the movies with the wife so I’ll do some listening when I get home in an hour. |
ok guys,
i wanted to follow up my previous statement in regards to this thread.
My entire wish here is for me to continue sharing my journey with you all. I have spoken with a few of you on the phone and understand the frustration that is caused when this thread is derailed. I have said time and time again: I want for everyone to contribute here as long as it is relevant and useful. For the most part, my posts are quick and straight to the point because I know that nobody likes to read lengthy posts. Most of you come to this thread for 5-10 minutes and quickly understand what’s the topic of the day and what’s being said which makes this far more appealing. I’m pretty aware of what my followers/readers wish to have and the content that attracts them to keep following me.
That said, I also want to be sure that I address those that use profanity in order to get their point across. Please remember that’s the type of behavior that can get this thread removed and I know that EVERYONE comes here a few times a week (if not everyday) in order to see what’s new INCLUDING those that use profanity. If you feel strongly about a certain issue then try to word things correctly without profanity. There’s no need for that. As you can see, I’m starting to get more involved and beginning to ask of you (for the first time ever) to help keep this alive. I know that some of you have differences and disagreements and that’s part of life, but remember one thing which is if they remove this thread then it’s gone and is it really worth it? I know MANY OF YOU have learned through my journey and some others are just using it for entertainment which is fine. If you are bored and don’t care for it then don’t follow the thread but don’t ruin it for those that are really benefiting from it.
I hope this is clear going forward.
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McIntosh 2600 preamp impressions coming shortly. I’m doing more listening as we speak.
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Correct. I guess I know a thing or two huh ? :)
ill keep listening next week and then bring out the mx160 next weekend. I want to see what room correction will do.
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C2600 tube preamp prelim impressions:
1. Warm presentation where the highs are not as prominent as the ref10 or the Lampizator pacific
2. Vocals have less POP
3. Soundstage is smaller than the ref10 or Lampizator
4. 3D effect is there but to a much smaller scale.
5. Good tight bass
6. Pushing the preamp at high volume levels can make things less romantic and it gives the feeling of a less “organized “ presentation
7. Awesome dac for the money although at times it seems to skip the first few seconds of each song
Overall, I’d say it’s a good preamp given its price point. You certainly wouldn’t miss the ref10 or the lampizator until you hear them next to each other. The lampizator is still superior as a preamp or a dac when compared to the c2600. At low volume levels, the lampizator bested both the ref10 and c2600 and at loud volume levels then the ref10 takes the cake.
I can call out the deffiencies of this preamp only because I have reference pieces in my home. The average person that doesn’t have anything to compare it that is proven to be reference equipment wouldn’t pick up on these problem areas because the preamp certainly gives you an overall enjoyable presentation that you couldn’t really criticize much.
In bodybuilding (which I have done in my past) there is a phrase that says “you’re Mr. Olympia “ when you are standing all by yourself but as soon as you stand next to other competitors then you’ll know what your weaknesses are because the competition will expose that.
if I were to grade it and the ref10/lampizator were an “A”, I’d give the c2600 a “B-“ which could change if I keep trying preamps.
Nothing to be ashamed of given its price point. |
The dac inside the 2600 is very “bold” and forward at times. When I connected the pacific to the c2600, the preamp had far better mids and smoothness. It became “livelier” with more ounces of liquidity. It came closer to the ref10 but again I still have never been able to match the massive soundstage of the ref10. The c2600 is a great all in one solution for sure and I can honestly say if I were looking for a preamp that gave me the tube flavor without breaking the bank, I’d get the c2600 or a audio Research 5se. I just love tubes with solid state preamps.
I am actively looking for the ayre twenty preamp. That will be the biggest challenge for my ref10. |
I highly doubt that this unit is in need of repair. That said, techno and I have the same observation about the C2600’s tonality. |
Maybe what you are feeling greyhound is what I’m picking up on the C2600’s dac. Granted, we are knit picking here.
I also meant that I love a tube preamp with a good solid state amp. I still prefer solid state amps over tube amps. |
Interesting techno. I might give that a try! |
This question goes for those preamplifier experts:
how do you know if one preamplifier will
sound louder than the other? I think I have an idea but don’t want to assume anything. I’m contemplating the ayre kxr twenty but the only way I want it is if:
1. It produces more volume than my ref10
2. It can take an RCA signal and transform it into xlr
the ref10 is amazing but it seems to require quite a bit of volume with my block audios. I would want the ayre preamp to provide more volume much quicker.
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The esoteric k1 has an enormous soundstage with tight bass but it is very transparent. It won’t forgive anything. The lampi pacific is more forgiving because of the tubes in the mix.
I hope to have the time to try the mx160 this weekend. |
Heading home with a Nordost Odín powecord for the dac. Stay tuned
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From a dead cold start, not even broken in, the Odín powercord has elevated the dac. More focused sound, more emotion and more bottom end. Stay tuned... |
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This is a demo cable from the same dealer who let me borrow the Shunyata Sigma HR. I hear so much detail in the back of the music that was never there. it is as if someone went to wipe the dirty windshield and now i can see right through it. Hell, even the c2600 sounds like a different animal with this powercord. I am just in pure shock to see ONE POWER CORD make such huge change here. Now i am being told that they have a pair of Odin 2 xlr and possibly another Odin powercord for me to try as well... I am not sure i can dare to try anymore Nordost because the price is indeed crazy steep, but YES THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE in the sound. I don’t know what others have experienced, BUT i can say with my Neoliths, Lampizator Pacific and Ref10, the Odin Powercord made an incredible change.
Lastly, there is ONE THING that stands out to me: i feel like the music now became more "emotionally involving" and as if i can follow the music and each instrument a little better until it fades out. Everything sounds more organized and coherent with more focus.
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Initial impressions of the Odin Powercord:
1. Incredible detail retrieval
2. Mids are CLEAR, ARTICULATED. i can understand lyrics better than ever before
3. Tight bass
4. Don’t have to crank things up in order to enjoy the music
5. More cohesiveness
6. More of an emotional presentation.
7. i can hear the instruments move from left to right and right to left like i haven’t heard in the past.
8. I can’t get off my couch
Yes, A POWERCORD is doing this here. Biggest shock of this year so far.
PS. Before anyone begins to say that i am derailing my own thread, i have stated in the last 2 months that the pool of amplifiers has become very shallow for me. Not much interests me other than Gryphon amps.Pass Labs xs300s and possibly the Momentum M400s. That is about it folks in terms of amps, BUT this does not mean i may not revisit the luxman 900u monos down the road with my Neoliths or maybe a cheap amp like Parasound JC5s in mono mode. I will prepare curve balls for you all when you least expect it and bring an amp back from the dead. |
I will let you in on a little secret: Krell has some SERIOUS STUFF coming out soon... I have seen some prototypes and it looks like they are aiming to make a come back :) |
In my PERSONAL OPINION, the Nordost Odin is NOT A CABLE, but rather an additional component.Why? because the change is as big as if i had changed out a component in my system.
Anyhow, I have began to have consider Odin 1 speaker cables. No, i won’t be doing interconnects at this time. I plan on probably adding the speaker cables and staying with the same powercords for now, but i must confess, i LOVE how everything is sounding with just the powercord. I feel like i want to hear all my music all over again because i hear so much extra information that was never there before. Is it expensive? hell yes. It is a significant upgrade? HELL YESS.
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hi there,
i have been out of the loop because i am busy with family stuff. I hope to have the time to do a video tomorrow of the different xlr cables i have so you guys can decide what you like best.
Audience front row vs valhalla 2 vs ansuz c2 ! |
No powecord has ever made such a big difference as the nordost Odín. I’ve tried the sigma nr, wireworld platinum 7 etc but this is just on another level.
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Keith,
although I respect your opinion, can you tell me if you’ve personally owned or demoed nordos Odín cables in your one home to arrive at that conclusion? In my few years in this hobby, this has made the biggest impact for me. I don’t pick up any unnatural flavor as what you described. I detect tons of detail, more emotion and less noise. The ONLY thing I could knock this cable on (could be that it needs more play time) is that I might get my ears overwhelmed with the massive amount of detail.
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Economies of scales. I believe nordost must be doing something that involves processes and patents that nobody else does. Trust me, I don’t want to be spending so much money on cables either but when the difference is THAT SIGNIFICANT by using a single power cord, how could I go back to what I had? Your ears and brain won’t let you.
Think of it in terms of what your current set up consists of today. If you brought home a better speaker or amplifier or preamp and it blew you away AND you can afford to buy it, would you go back to your speakers ? Probably not right? It’s a hard thing to do because once you taste better sound, your ears won’t forgive inferior sound. Hell, I have that problem just by watching Netflix through my OLED lg and using its internal speakers. The sound is muffled, I can hardly understand at times what is being said in the movie, etc.
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Keith,
Many components are no different than a wife or a gf. Yes, it is harsh as hell what i am about to say, but YOU DON’T KNOW a woman unless you both live under the same roof. THIS IS EXACTLY how i feel about audio. Dating a girl is FAAAAR different than living with her under the same roof.
Right now, because i have been living with the Neoliths for about 2 months, i feel like i could go to a show, bring my entire rig and place it in a room that is treated and i would embarrass Martin Logan in the room next to me where they are showcasing the Neoliths with Mcintosh 1.25kw and c2600 with transparent cables. |
I would have to agree: I don’t need to crank things up as loud anymore since getting this powecord. |
Hyper detail can overwhelm anyone. Magico has hyper detail and some people can’t tolerate it because of that. It’s all very subjective but in my situation don’t forget I’m still with tubes in the mix so that allows things to never get out of control. I also need to get the rest of my cables to be nordost in order to have the full house sound. Mix and matching can also yield bad results. I’m impressed to say the least and although I still have the standard powecords on the blocks, I could easily not even care to replace them with aftermarket cables but you all know that I will.
For now, I just wanted to share with you all that I have placed an order for Nordost Odin speaker cables. I will move to Nordost PCs and speaker cables. Yes, I know I’ll take a lot of heat for doing so, but I heard something I couldn’t deny. I tried to let my ears decide and each and every time I continue to be impressed by this powercord. It’s almost like a component change rather than a cable swap. Some say that all this detail is fake, unnatural, synthetic, etc but if my ears are in shock each time I hear a song, then what am I to do? How can I convince my ears that what’s i am hearing isn’t natural? How can I force myself off the couch?
Stay tuned as I begin to play with Nordost Odin speaker cables at the end of the week. |
We will see guys. I’m not opposed to getting powercords from other offerings for my block audios and even better if they let you hear them without commitment. I still need powercords for my Monoblocks and ref10, rca interconnects and xlr interconnects. Still plenty of opportunity for me to try a different cable in my system.
Shunyata failed for me with my Monos and preamp. Yes I didn’t try it with my dac but with my other components it was average at best. All I got from Shunyata was a little less noise which also swallowed some of the highs with it. This is why had gone back to wireworld platinum 7. |
Interesting ! You are probably right. I can’t help it but to just remember those amps that come off the top of my head. :)
On another note, has the 900u amp killer arrived ??? Am I listening to the amp that finally puts an end to the 900u long winning streak ?? Possibly... My next video will not show it but I am listening to one of the BIGGEST surprises as far as amps are concerned. A private audition is happening as we speak in my room and oh boy... This thing will break a ton of hearts... All good things come to an end and this amp has shown up right at the perfect time... Yes, it is under $20k MSRP and I think it came to knock the luxman 900u out but will it ? All I can say is OMG it is INCREDIBLE... Soulution-like grip, huge sound, muscular like gryphon and powerful. It is still breaking in so I won’t have a formed opinion until first week in July. For now, you all need to know that the VERY FIRST true challenger of the 900u throne has arrived. :)
Don't message me so I can say what It is. I need to keep it under wraps until I can present it. If you are planning to spend less than 20k, you better keep that money in your wallet until next month :).
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Fsmithjack,
i would take the musical fidelity titan over the 160.8 and Mark Levinson 536. The Mark Levinson 536 was decent but bass was not there and the 160.8 won’t have any bass either and as you all know the magico s5 mk2 need an amp with outstanding bass control or each time a bass note hits, you’ll hear crickets instead of bass. I wish I had the s5 mk2 with my musical fidelity titan. When I owned the s5 mk2 I was looking for monster power with bass control and that is what the musical fidelity titan has in spades. |
Magico is like 86 dB... the 60.8s won’t even get the woofers to move lol |
You all forget that i can’t just bring stuff on the fly like that ESPECIALLY when it comes to cables. Most dealers WILL make you buy it if you want to try it. When it comes to the mainstream brands, no dealer is going to order a cable for you and let you try to see if you like it in your system. However, i would be MORE THAN HAPPY to test drive any cable you have. Techno, if you have this cable then send it to me and i will pay shipping both ways or if ANYONE here has a cable that you believe would floor me more than the Nordost Odin then shoot me a pm and i can send you a shipping label with insurance so i can try it here in my own home.
i have been hearing from people who swear by the new expensive Audioquest power cords (dealers) and i ask them to send it my way if they believe it is THAT GOOD but all i hear are crickets and zero action. Remember, at the level where i am currently sitting, things are CRAZY EXPENSIVE. I need to be very selective to say the least.
Could you imagine if i bought every cable you all recommend? With cables, i plan on going about it in a very VERY different way. I will test drive as much as i can without having to pay upfront and if a 300 dollar power cable kills my Odin powercord, I WILL POST IT HERE. |
ok Techno, so why dont you send me your cable and i will give you my opinion? don't you have it? |
