Should I do the top “poop” amplifiers list? Lol. I actually had a list of what I think are the “not all that” amplifiers but this industry is small and I didn’t want to get anyone offended. Let’s just say if you don’t see me owning certain brands ever again, you’d know why :)
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab
Yes, Dag has awesome clarity with soft dome and beryllium tweeters. It’s incredible when paired properly. I think that panels just place different demands on amplifiers and are trickier to make them sound awesome. If I had Wilson audio right now, I bet the Dag integrated would be mind blowing. If I ever go back to Wilson audios (Alexx maybe?) then Dag will be in the mix for sure. For now and with my current speakers , it doesn’t mate as good as arc/ Plinius does. The thing here is that people here associate this lack of compatibility as if something is garbage or no good. That’s just not the case guys. I remember hearing some Alexia 2s with mark leviskon 536 Monos which I owned and it was soooo Boring. It was the biggest disappointment for me and next thing you know I bought Sasha 2s and I was amazed at the dynamics and clarity I had. This is system matching people. |
Ok so I have indulged on 6 shots of tequila in the last hour so here are my raw and naked comments about different things: 1. I don’t believe I’m any better than anyone just because I own Neoliths. I respect your own set ups and what you are able to do with your budgets. I didn’t always have the budget for Neoliths when I started this journey. I started with Polk audio LSi speakers. 2. I am believer we all have a certain type of flavor we strive for. Some like their coffee dark and others with cream. I present my own opinions based on what I’ve heard as I went up the ladder. 3. I don’t believe that the more money you spend the better it gets each time. That said, with a larger budget you do open a door that allows you to hear what else can be had from those expensive tier groups. 4. I wish you all could come over to my home and I can make you all drinks so we can play whatever music you all want so we can have a discussion about what my system has or lacks. I don’t take anything personal by any means. 5. I want to try many more amps in 2019 so I can become a pioneer with the Neolith. I want to do something that nobody else has done with these speakers and trust me if I fail, I’ll report it here. 6. I am enjoying this journey because each time I make an improvement I feel as if I rediscover my music all over again 7. I don’t give a D@mn about magazines and their reviews. When I read them I use them to only give me a high level view of the product. 8. I find those 5 page long reviews from magazines boring and confusing. If I were to review gear for a living, I’d give you the truth and meat and potatoes from the get go. One page with a few paragraphs and just get my point across. Haven’t you all noticed how magazines never really say if a product is a disappointment? The world wants information to move faster an faster. We don’t have time to watch news and sit between commercials anymore. The average YouTube video is 4 minutes long because that’s what people want to spend watching a YouTube video. Anything longer is a waste and you lose your audience. 9. My ultimate journey is becoming more of system matching. I believe some amplifiers are indeed just garbage but some others are actually great pieces that just need the matching pieces to create a beautiful presentation. 10. You all are part of my journey as much as I am. Whether it is a power cable, a set of spikes or even a carpet recommendation, I think it is all great of throwing ideas in the mix for present or future consideration. 11. Lastly and I want to be sure that i convey this: I don’t want to help any amp or preamp with fuses or eq or anything extra. I want to use the product exactly as it was designed to be used. I can certainly use the power cords I own on everything I buy if I feel it improves anything at all but that’s not always the case. Sometimes I stick to their own stock powercords and let them sink or swim. Remember, you all add an ounce or two of life to this thread. I read every single thing you all write here even if I don’t replay to everyone. Nothing goes unnoticed. As I learn here, I want you all to learn too so that you don’t have to buy 309 amplifiers like i have bought in the past few years. (I have a spreadsheet). |
Technodude: you seem to constantly not realize that the Neolith drops to 0.5ohms which means it will not be easy to make it sound the best unless high caliber amps are next to it. The only reason why I said I was doing biwire is because my Plinius has 4 binding posts per channel so I was going to just use them and connect them to the Neolith to see if there’s any significant change. That’s all I said I was going to do. Nobody said I was buying 4 Plinius amps to drive them. Do you realize I have an 80k speaker and I STILL HAVE NOT used monoblocks? Wouldn’t you use monoblocks on a speaker of this caliber?? Yea, I still haven’t done that so this is a slow process here. Relax man... I’m going through the motions with these speakers and hearing them as I go up the ladder in terms of amplification. I want to little by little hear how much I’ve not heard yet on this speaker. |
Bigdesign: I’ve been told a million times to get the 750se monos which are supposed to be amazing with Neoliths. I just need to do this gradually. I already have massive Monos coming next week or possibly end of this week. As far as the Plinius being it for me: no it isn’t it for me. It will be my go to amp and an awesome back up amps anytime I’m in transition mode. For the time being, the integrateds have been unplugged and dismissed. |
Ok men: I’ve been doing biwire over a few days and used wireworld silver 8 on the lows and platinum 7 on the highs. I definitely detected a slight more separation with the instruments. I felt as if certain things popped out of the speaker occasionally but this is very dependent on the song. It’s not something that is very obvious or easy to pick up. You have to look for it and then you will find it. I will say that if you have cables laying around and your equipment allows for it , then do it. Will you hear a day and night difference? Not really but it is a slight improvement over using a single cable. Make no mistake about it. |
On another note, I have been trying platinum 7 wireworld cables and silver 8 and to my surprise, I prefer the silver 8 over the platinum 7 with these speakers. The Logans just don’t benefit of the pure silver because it tends to smooth out the highs just too much and with the silver 8 which has some copper, you gain more “in your face” highs that really benefit these speakers. I can’t say for sure with other speakers but with my neoltihs, the silver 8 is better than the platinum 7. |
Interesting comments on my youtube channel. Some say #2 and others #1. It really all depends on WHAT you are trying to accomplish and the current state of your rig. I think both cables are exceptional and one does things the other does not. I personally don't really have one over the other because i could see how each sound can appeal to different people based on what they listen to. For instance, if you listen to poor recordings and you want to get rid of the terrible brightness that some of these old recordings have, i would select #2. If you listen to ultra high resolution music such as SACD's, DSD and they are more "current" recordings, i would probably choose #1 in order to extract as much information as possible. This becomes an exercise of fine tuning your rig. |
Well, i plan to do a quick video today of the parasound jc1s with the ref6se and the magnepan 20.7s. I am quite excited to try tubes with these speakers. As many of you know by now, i was looking for another speaker to replace my Sasha DAW and have finally paid for it yesterday. I should have it at some point next week. and....... well... As i was driving to pay for my new speakers i got a call and to make a long story short i will be bringing one of the baddest power amplifiers on the planet. I suspect this will finally send my Gryphon Colosseum to a new home. I expect for this amplifier to score higher than my Colosseum too. I am keeping things quiet and that is all you will hear from me. Expect for this amp to show up and with my new speakers just elevate my system to heights that i never thought would happen so quick let alone in the same month. This forces me to sell the momentum, parasound jc1+ monos and Merrill audio 118s. I need to sacrifice all the toys in order to pay off the beast that is coming. Yes, without reviewing it, i KNOW it will smoke the amplifiers i currently own. Stay tuned. |
@guidocorona Thanks for your articulate thoughts above. I will look into this song you recommended above, but remember youtube has copyrights and a lot of people sometimes will not want to hear different songs all the time because they can always reference back to the songs i played in the past in order to compare anything new i am adding.. That said, i will probably be looking for some new tunes going forward. @kren... The integrated conversation might happen soon, but i am not ready to put any thoughts on the accuphase integrated just yet so it needs time to "mature" a little. As far as breaking stuff in, yes i now have the ability to leave stuff on all day playing music and letting it settle which is a good thing. I am trying to be as far as possible with a lot of the stuff i am bringing. Vinyl is fine and a few of you have messaged me in regards to this, but i guess you can say i am just too "lazy" to be looking for vinyl and buying it too. I don't even buy CD's which is why i never bought the matching vivaldi transport. Speaking of Vivaldi, how does it compare to the Rossini? hmmm let me get back to you all on this later on. |
“techno, why would an 80K set of speakers by a very well established, successful and popularly liked company, make their speakers ( and yes, we are speaking of the flagship model ) with double pairs of speaker connectors, and talk about both biamping, and " bi wiring ", in the owner's user and set up manual ? That's right. It's just you ! Have anything else to contribute on the subject ? No, so let's move on. You are being a bit troll - like. Calling it as I see it. Enjoy ! MrD. “ I didn’t say it techno but.... |
Techno: the way I see it, you are beginning to give your opinion on gear you probably haven’t even seen in real life.... google images doesn’t help anyone get an idea of how it sounds. Good things are coming and yes, I may be close to striking a deal on Dag 400 momentums pretty soon. To your point, 80k speakers and now I gotta bring gear that it is indeed up to the same level of the speaker. Did you forget my car analogy? Do you think if you could buy dale Earnhardt’s race car for 3-5 million dollars that you can just hop in it and take it Daytona and you can take those curves at 200 mph only because you bought a car that is a race car so you gotta be able to go 200 mph too by putting your helmet, suit and harness and putting the pedal to the metal ? Or would also say what’s the point of paying 3-5 million and having to do so much work to get the car to go 200 mph? You would be a perfect candidate to own a Nissan GT-R with the sequential transmission where all you need to do is step on the gas and the car goes fast, but you would be hating a Dodge Viper ACR because there’s no AC, runs hot inside, and it feels like a race car which means you gotta be one hell of a driver to really maximize its performance or else you’d end up like Paul walker (rip). I prefer the vehicle that idles rough and where you feel the hood shake. That vehicle that has crazy potential to be fast if you have the patience to learn it. There is no better reward than to buy something that you know it is one hell of a component but now you need to learn how to make it give you what it’s got. Once you reach nirvana, you will look back and not want to go there again. |
Ladies and gentlemen: the block audio se monoblocks have arrived. Let me say this, the construction is possibly as impressive as the momentum integrated. 198 lbs that feel like they are bolted to the ground and you can’t pick up. The sheer weight is unreal. It took me almost an hour to fire them up because I couldn’t get them to turn on and well after making some calls and reading, these amps won’t turn on if you don’t connect the speaker cables and xlr first before you plug them into the wall or else they just won’t turn on. I believe dartzeel does the same thing with their amps. I only had about 5 min to listen to them because I had to leave somewhere but what I heard was the most gorgeous mids I’ve heard in ages. They are just so full and rounded and the bass was like the rumbling effect from a 747 taking off. 5,000 damping factor! more to come tomorrow ! |
Ron, so I have been looking for a Plinius reference amp for ages even before the 301mk2 I sold you. It’s just hard to find and apparently the sa103 was the best selling amp for Plinius her in the USA. Although the reference Plinius is something I’d love to try, I got tired of waiting so I moved on. If one pops up then I’ll certainty get it. |
Whej Techno_dude, so I think the reason many people are just dismissing anything you say is because you are talking pretty harshly without having even seen any of this gear in person let alone hear it. You criticize Dag, Martin Logan and many other brands but you don’t really add CONSTRUCTIVE criticism but rather destructive criticism. Notice that you’re the only saying the neoltihs should be 20k, the Dag are overpriced shiny boxes and now beginning to comment on block audio which is by far the one brand that not many have heard of. You are essentially a movie critic that gives films poor reviews and you’ve not even seen the movie trailer to say the least. I sense a little bitterness in some of the stuff you say but hey yes it’s free world and anyone is entitled to their opinion. Don’t take my feedback above as a personal attack, but rather my explanation of how I see your last few contributions to this thread. this is indeed about system matching and the reason WHY many don’t own Neolith isn’t because they suck. You’re speaking nonsense there. Maybe it’s that they are too much money? Maybe because they are too massive for most people’s rooms? Maybe because there hasn’t been more than one single used pair ever listed here on audiogon since they came out 4 years ago so they haven’t been available for most people to grab them at a good deal? Or maybe because most dealers don’t even carry them so that makes it harder for anyone to buy them? The only type of person who would buy this speaker without hearing it or seeing it is that audiophile that already knows electrostatics and doesn’t need to even hear Martin Logan’s best speaker. They would just buy it. When was the last time you saw a Wilson audio Alexx or WAMM listed or even talked about on a dedicated thread? Those buyers don’t have anything to prove to anyone. They are chillin in their homes enjoying those masterpieces. |
Listening to the block audios for the last hour: 1. The bass has layers that I’ve never been able to separate. It feels as if you can taste each hz being forced out of the 15inch and 12inch drivers 2. Gorgeous mids. Mids that never ever shout regardless of the how loud you push them. 3. Although the amps are just getting broken in, they don’t lack anything I can think of. This amp reminds me a ton of the gryphon house sound but on steroids. The soundstage is just ridiculously big. Stay tuned as I keep breaking in these amps and begin to play with my own power cords. I’m using factory power cords which are nothing special. |
Update: 2.5 hours blasting the block audios and they opened up more. Things are pouring out of the speakers more and more. Smooth amps with detail. Man, they are getting more exciting as minutes pass by. I’ve sat here at 102db and I have zero ear fatigue, a big soundstage that pretty much needs nothing. I also picked up on the decay being lengthier which could be the low floor noise from the amps. I don’t know if it is the amps needing more break in and that’s why I feel like they have opened up even more or if it’s that they just need over an hour of playtime before they sound their best or if it’s just the ref10 needing more time to warm up those tubes and I’m hearing the ref10 hit its stride through the amps. Their chassis is about the size of a 250.8 pass Labs amp but far heavier. Even heavier than the 200.5. I’m not sure how they got so much circuitry inside this chassis. |
Day 3: the block audio Monos were left on all night long in eco mode. This takes them out of class a but leaves them in Class AB drawing 50 watts idling which is less than a lightbulb. Im itching to try their matching preamp because I’m curious to know what’s not being heard right now that the matching preamp can bring to the table. Right now the ref10 and block audio have amazing synergy. The bottom end is on a another level. It took away any overhang or “woof woof” in the bass department that the Plinius May have had. Right now, my preliminary feelings are that these amps rank with the best of the best. Pass Labs looks like a tonka toy and this one looks like the real trucks. |
Block audio/ neoltihs/ref10: Its a total homerun. It’s the craziest most balanced sound I’ve ever heard in my room. Fullness, mids to die for, highs that are dialed in so perfectly. The entire presentation lacks nothing. I can’t seem to pick apart the sound no matter how hard I try. I’m blown away on day 3 of this experiment. |
I read about them on several sites and I took it all in with a grain of salt. I then made a few calls and I was told by someone that they saw them at the Munich show and they were stunning. Next thing you know they are here. Rowland and Dag look like a Ferrari and the block audio looks like military m1 tank. Both are built to stunning construction and precision but on different templates. |
Last video before I place the critical mass in the mix. Please listen critically to this video and the one before it so you can hopefully pick up the difference once I use the new stand. https://youtu.be/g-0gDc4kq8U |
Techno, although I see where you’re coming from, for sure I will try something else at some point. Right now I just want to enjoy the ride with them and I wish all those people who went to shows and heard the neoltihs and who were disappointed could come to my home and hear block audio with them. They’d be singing a different tune in regards to the neoltihs real fast. The explosiveness of this combo is magical. I’ve never heard an electrostatic sound so dynamic before. |
Cabling: wireworld silver 8 speaker cables wireword platinum 7 (dac to preamp) wireworld silver 8 (preamp to amp) wireworld platinum 7 usb factory, $10 dollar power cables on the block audio amps. Letting things settle before I begin cable swaps. I believe that the system still has room to get far better and cabling will be where I may go next. I just had a friend of mine come over and listen to tbe block audios at 95-100db and his words after one hour of listening to all sorts of genres were: “ those amps Let me hear the different layers in the bass which I didn’t pick up with the rest” (He heard the momentum and the Plinius too) I need to play with them for the next few weeks and then the shootouts might begin after I sell my integrateds. My plan will be: block audio vs: gryphon antileon momentum m400s dual Plinius sa103 l want to use the Neoltihs for this experiment because I want to beat the hell out of the amps. I want to tax them across the frequency range with no help. I plan to go full throttle on all of them and then begin to eliminate one at a time. Will the Czech Republic smoke Denmark and the USA? I don’t have a clue, but I sure get excited to find out ! |
lol i already had the luxman combo... i can tell you that the block audio is still opening up and continuing to improve. The luxman monos are spectacular though and i still remember spending long lights with that set up. I could easily live with that combo of yours and knowing that although there are better things there, i still have some of the best that can be had. After i parted with luxman, i knew i would miss it and yes i still miss alot of its musicality and just that "cant get off my a$$" feeling night after night of listening. I wish i had it here to try it, but i got far too much invested in gear right now that i will begin to sell soon here on agon. I want to probably sell the momentum, but ugh i can't get myself to do it. |
trying to think about what i have achieved here with my current set up: 1. fullness and roundness 2. Greater clarity 3. More impact 4. ZERO lack of power reserves 5. No fatigue 6. Brain rattling bass I am holding off from beginning to do the cable swaps right now. i want to sit and listen for at least a full week. I need to get my ears adjusted to the sound so i can pick up the differences as i begin to make changes. |
Well guys, with the block Audios, the wireworld platinum 7 bests the silver 8. Let’s not forget that this wasn’t the case with the Plinius. The Plinius sounded better with silver 8. System synergy is key. the wireworld platinum 7 brings more sparkle, more sizzle to the highs along with what appears to be more vocals pouring out of speakers at times. alright, does anyone here want to let me borrow their “ omg speaker or power cords” and I will loan mine out? It would be an outstanding chance for both of us to learn about each other’s cables. |
yes Guido. That is correct, but the powercord is not an aftermarket one. What i was trying to say is for WHATEVER REASON some manufacturers don't come with aftermarket power cords. Only the Dag integrated came with a transparent powercord. i don't recall ever owning a power amp that had an aftermarket powercord from the factory. |
It’s a wrap for tonight. I’m getting tired which doesn’t allow me to do critical listening so I’ll do another evaluation tomorrow night when I’m more rested. So far, the improvement is definitely there but I may have been expecting for the change to be a little more drastic. Again, these are my preliminary findings and are by no means my conclusion on these cables. |