2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Stay tuned. The shootout will commence but be advised it will be brief. I get my new speakers Wednesday and family is flying into town on Sunday for 30 days so it will be tough to do serious listening unless I get pissed off and kick them out of the house during the daytime on weekends so I can let tbe volume know turn clockwise until it can’t turn anymore. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I’m starting to get concerned as to why the mágicos m3 are now being sold again... those are supposed to be amazing speakers and they keep getting listed. I believe the seller is the guy who bought them from the dealer that was selling them here for a long time. He must have had them 2 weeks now ? Starting to wonder what’s happening. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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I will announce the speakers within the next few days. They are black color, can be biamped and some say they have zero competition under 100k. Will that be the case ? We will see. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Mrdecibel,
when I say “ I can live with this equipment and be done” I mean that it is a great sounding piece that doesn’t really make me miss the superior components I’ve owned. It means that I feel it is a well rounded component but I don’t mean to say it is better than everything else ive owned. Through my journey, I’ve learned to identify those more “affordable “ components that I could be happy with if I had to create a more affordable set up in a smaller place. The gryphon Diablo is essentially one of these components. it is full bodied, big soundstage and it can drive a lot of speakers out there. It showed me what an integrated is capable of and it killed my idea of “integrated amplifiers aren’t good”. That’s far from the truth. As a matter of fact, do you know WHY many manufacturers don’t build expensive integrateds? Because most people want real estate when they spend big money. Most people want to see monoblocks and a preamplifier if they are going to spend big money even if the same manufacturer was to build an integrated that has the same topology as their amps and preamps and it sounded the same as separates.
Imagine if gryphon made an integrated that was the collesseum amp and pandora preamp? Nobody would want it even if it was half the price and yet it sounded no different than separates. Why? Too much money that people don’t want to spend just for one component.
The mometum integrated is a s200 amp with the momentum preamp. That said, it has one thing going for it which is that it looks like nothing else out there and this alone keeps it being a desired item for many. Hell, I had a dealer asking me to sell it to him once I’m done so he can post it on his site so he can get traffic which allows him to make more sales of other products. Make no mistake that Dan knew he wanted a component that not only sounded good but that also stood out from the rest and let me tell you it DOES stand out. Am I a fan? I’m a fan of what he did throughout his entire career. 
Bottom line, there are a few affordable components that I can highly recommend for those of you can’t go to the ultra high end stuff. Make no mistake that these aren’t better but they give you a great taste of what is above them.

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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I'll try to do that for sure..but you told me right after i removed the momentum and  placed the pass labs 60.8 on top of them. Damn it lol 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Drumroll.... 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Well I will update you all tonight about a preliminary shootout of the gryphon vs momentum. I am using some cheap revel gem2 on stands. Yes don’t laugh, I also had these in the garage somewhere. The olympica 2s have departed my home today.  Preliminary update coming to you all soon. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Ok guys,
so after many weeks and countless nights of deciding what would  replace my s5mk2, I considered many options. I was very very close to pulling the trigger on a pair of Alexia 2s but the store blew the sale due to their demeanor so I walked away (glad I did). My heart was set on a pair of Alexia 2s simply because I wanted to see what they were capable of. I felt like the Alexia 1 was old news although still a worthy contender. 
I then had a chance to get a pair of magico m3s and the day I was going to pay for them I was told by the store who had been trying to sell them for about 4 months that someone else had bought them the same day I called to pay for them. 
So, I was bummed out and felt like if something doesn’t happen for you then there’s a reason for it. No need to force things. 
I then had a few conversations with several people and dealers and the stars finally aligned, we agreed to terms and price so I am now the proud owner of Martin Logan Neolith. :)
i read so much on these and had (still do)  many people who belittle their capabilities. 
However, I just couldnt believe it. I mean I remember owning the Martin Logan renaissance and living with them the longest out of any speaker. I actually owned the 15a twice. So how can the Neolithi be a failure? Just doesn’t make any sense. 
The so called “small sweet spot” is something I never really detected so I never thought of it. I listen to music alone so how can a “small sweet spot” affect me?
yes guys, im back to my roots with panels. I also felt like the fact that these are passive woofers is a great thing because I’ll be able to really see what amplifiers are made of. This speaker drops to 0.5 ohms  at 20khz. I will be taxing the hell out of amplifiers with it. This speaker will be an excellent tool by which I can judge amplifiers. I don’t care to listen to the bs that some have said about this speaker. The only person whose comment I can take into consideration would be the person who owned it And lived with it. I can’t go by what people heard at shows. Shows are sometimes pure bs. First, there’s a bunch a chairs and people in front of you. Second, half the time they play elevator music or music that is played at a spa while you are getting a facial. Lastly, I want to really know what this beast will sound like in my room, with my music, my front end and I simply DO NOT believe these speakers will disappoint. PERIOD. IF the 15a Logan’s didn’t disappoint then why the hell would these me inferior? 
i went all out and selected the best speaker Martin Logan makes today and I’ve owned pretty much all of their current electrostatics with the exception of the Neolith. It was time for me to catapult this journey to something I didn’t think I would own. 
You all WILL KNOW from MY EXPERIENCE whether these are worth their price tag or not. Forget what others who only heard it a shows have to say. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Alright men,
my speakers have shipped. Tonight I will reveal my new speakers. Stay tuned ;) 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Neolith is 87db based on the actual measurements. Not an easy to drive speaker. 
The color is black gloss. I didn’t get the gorgeous red because when it’s time to part ways I’ll hear potential buyers complain about the color being too loud. Black gloss is a color that nobody has issues with. 
Although I did want to try the Alexia 2s, I couldn’t work a deal with the dealer and they were too rude. Maybe in the future I’ll try Alexia 2. 
The Neolith should be something special. I don’t think I’ll be disappointed and I say this simply because I’ve owned many electrostatics and not once have I been  dissatisfied. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Mikepaul: your 15a is an awesome speaker. I always have flashbacks of that speaker. Just crazy detailed and a 3D effect that always sounded jaw dropping to me. 
The 15a is really the reason why I am going to the Neolith. That speaker was so good that my mind wants to hear how much better the Neolith will be. 
Unfortunately, there are not many Neolith owners that can speak about it. I believe that there are less than 50 pairs of Neoliths  around the world which is WHY you don’t see then listed here. The only time one pair listed was a pair from Europe which really doesn’t count. Not one pair has ever been listed domestically EVER and these speakers have been out for about 4 years now. This will always protect the resale value of this item and as I was told by Martin Logan, the. Neolith won’t be replaced for at least 10 years or more. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Great question. I'll address that during my next video. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Yep.. which one did you all like from the video ?
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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i said it on the previous page, i have not started to change cables out, add power conditioners, etc on the momentum stuff. That will come so we can gauge things better.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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@grey9hound 
thank you for this man. i did read something about LEDs being horrible for your eyes over extended periods of time. As you know, in my room my overhead lights are LEDs...  
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Wilson will have to wait. The Neolith was a much harder acquisition for me. The Alexia 2 will be on the used market soon.
Techno, you sound like you already know the Neolith is going to demolish the mágicos lol. Is this why you are requesting for the Alexia 2s ? 
I’d be shocked if the Neoliths don’t blow away anything else I’ve owned. I expect them to come in  and just shock me. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Techno: I want to let you know that typically in this hobby it is hard to beat a component by choosing a component that is half the price. It’s a different budget constraint for the engineers designing it.
For example, you think I’m going to try and beat the Rowland 925s by choosing Amps that retail for 30? It’s just not possible man. There are tier groups for a reason. I know that no Parasound is going to beat the Rowland’s. It’s just not possible man. I’ve tried this before in the past and failed miserably. The Luxman is meant to fight the progression line and not the momentum. The momentum is for the Rowland 925s, constellation, soulution, etc. Heavy hitters if you will. If your mom gives you 50 dollars as a kid to buy shoes, and mine gives me 150, I don’t care what shoes you buy for $50 dollars, you won’t match my Jordan’s. You know what I’m saying?
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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I had the wife sit down just now and played one song for her: “you and your friend” by dire straits. She heard it on the Diablo and the momentum.  Both integrateds have been on for the last hour. Her words were and I quote: “ the shiny one seems to sound more engaging and brighter” and the black one sounds like it has less treble. 
Lol. 
Well I will do more listening tonight and try to translate what she meant plus post my opinion. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Techno: one of the biggest things that the Neolith brings to the table is dynamics. I confirmed this through a few of my sources. The Neolith is the most dynamic ever built by Martin Logan. Essentially, the dynamics not present in the other models are present on this model. The massive panels is indeed what makes the difference. A bigger panel isn’t just a little more sound than the model below. You wanna know HOW I know? I owned the 13a and 15a at the same time. It took me one day to realize how much better the 15a is over the 13a. It was a huge difference between both. The extra panel surface on the 15a just made it sound 10 times bigger than the 13a. Imagine the gab between the Neolith and the 15a.... yes, the dealer I bought all my Logan’s from has all the models on the floor. He sold me the 15a and told me I would be floored. I went with what he said and yes it was an awesome speaker. He continued to tell me for the longest that the Neolith (which he has on his floor) is just the best he’s heard. He had yg Sonja, persona 9h, 7f, Sonus Faber cremonese (which I also owned) and he again, showed me videos of all of these speakers on his floor and he said it “ the Neolith is on a whole other level, remember when I told you the 15a was amazing? Well I’m telling you once you hear the Neolith you will fear going into anything else because the huge sound is intoxicating and no conventional speaker can compensate for it. You’d need a speaker costing 100k+ in order to bring the Neolith any sort of fight”. Again, I’ve been doing business with this person for a long time and he’s really never steered me into something I hated. As a matter of fact, he also has Alexia 1s on display and said the neolith makes them sound broken. 
I flew in to listen to the  Neoliths last year and I remember not liking the Alexia after hearing them. I remember they sounded muffled in comparison. That said, all I gathered was that the neolith sounded huge like Godzilla and everything else sounded lethargic and small in comparison. 
This feeling of “small” is what most speakers sounded like to me after hearing the Neolith. Of course, overtime your ears get adjusted to it so I forgot how big they sounded. If you were to hear them next to another speaker then you’d realize how much bigger it sounds. 

Remember, panel size makes a HUGE difference with panels. That is like swapping out an engine. It is that much better. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Techno: before Ria comes here to slam you, the integrated is 45k. Not 65k...
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Well that’s being too broad though. Are you saying that the Neoliths are all just paint and a prettier design than the plastic looking cheaper models? Not the case man... same with Wilson. Is the Alexx just a bigger Alexia but not really better? Far from the truth...
Anyhow, I’ve said Parasound multiple times and now I might try a pair of jc5s for fun and see what these do that the old jc1s didn’t do.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Yes mikepaul. The Neolith will strip naked any amp that doesn’t have balls under the hood. It will get bright sounding at moderate volumes and it will present loose bass.
That said, are you all ready with my preliminary findings on the gryphon vs momentum?
Well, here I go:

momentum:
1. The very best integrated I’ve heard. Even more satisfying than the belcanto black.
2. Immense detail, soundstage and a level of liquidity that I don’t remember hearing from any other component I’ve owned.
3. Gorgeous highs and the mids are just perfect. They are evenly balanced.
4. More detailed than the gryphon. More clarity, more 3D effect with a sense of depth that the gryphon can’t match.
5. The most tubelike sound I’ve ever heard from any other solid state piece I’ve owned.
6. The blackest backgrounds which result in music coming the from the back and with long VERY LONG decay. Instruments linger in the air for seconds longer than on the gryphon.
7. Engaging, romantic and with a presentation that makes you want to sit and listen.
8. Amazing sound even at low volume (<85db)


Gryphon Diablo 300:
1. Awesome muscular sound signature
2. Big soundstage
3. More mellow highs when compared to the momentum.
4. The background is silent but nowhere near that of the momentum.
5. The best bang for the buck without a doubt. You get a lot more here for the money than on the momentum.

With that said, and again this is my preliminary feeling, the momentum is just on another level. Had I not heard the momentum next to the gryphon, I wouldn’t have heard the flaws or weakness on the gryphon. The momentum just exposes them with ease. At 3 times the asking price of the gryphon, the mometum is not only better built and far more beautiful but so is its presentation and overall sound. This integrated is really an integrated to compare against separates. 
I will spend more time with them and the Neolith in the next few weeks so I can examine the bass and give you my feedback as to who has better bottom end. For now, the mometum bests the gryphon on highs and mids.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
The bat gear is gone. As far as momentum vs pass,  no pass amplifier that I’ve owned has sounded as close to tubes as this momentum integrated.  Not even the  xs150 I owned. The momentum integrated is THE CLOSEST to tubes I’ve ever heard. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Remember one thing: most (if not all of you) have either only been told the Neolith isn’t good OR you heard it at a show and you sat on the last row with a ton of old bald heads in front of you while they played some crazy stupid music you have never heard before. If there’s an actual Neolith owner here then speak up. I want to hear from you or else I’ll review it and will give you my take. 
Lastly, I understand electrostatics aren’t for everyone. I totally get that, but if you are only talking because you have heard other electrostatics and you didn’t like them so you assume the Neolith is no different then you are already coming in with a biased opinion. 
I happen to like panels and conventional woofer/tweeter speakers. Both do exceptional things and it’s a matter of taste. Let’s wait and see what they will bring to the table. Patience guys... 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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The jc1s had amazing bass control. Far better than many amps out there. It reminded me a lot of the Hegel h30. It didn’t have the best highs or mids but they weren’t lacking either. The bass really stood out though. It drove the 800d2 I had briefly with crazy bass control. The entire recliner vibrates when I pushed it. 
I may  biamp the Neolith though. I think this speaker is that speaker that can be tons of fun and almost like an experimentation needs to happen with it at all times to bring the very best from them. 

How many of you really think the Alexia 2 would kill this Neolith? I bet nobody would place a nice bet against the Neolith losing a battle against anything that retails for less. 
Hell I haven’t owned the speaker yet and I know I couldn’t bet against this speaker. Not until I own and have hands on experience. The biggest sounding speaker I’ve owned was the vivid audio g1. That sounded massive and fast sounding. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
The momentum is easily the best all in one box I’ve owned. Again, I feel like this could easily beat many separates out there. Trust me that I don’t see a reason why anyone would have a single complaint about this piece. There’s simply nothing to fault it other than MAYBE I wish it was 400 watts into 8 ohms but I’m sure that’s what separates are for. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
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Jimmy: I’ve not heard progression amps. What I do know based on feedback is that they don’t have the finesse of the momentum line which is expected since they are cheaper. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
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@apdoc2004 

We are all supposed to be grown people here. My experimentation, trials and journey are separate than what others may go through. I am starting to feel that i am having waaaay more fun with this than some of you. Why? because some people take this hobby with a bit of OCD: 
  • "this cable is curled up too much
  •  the power cord has dust 
  • the outlet is hanging too low so it picks up interference from the floor
  • My amplifiers are on all the time which means i am creating more wear and tear on the amplifier than i need
  • The overhead lights shine too much on the speakers which gives me a headache making my listening experience terrible. 
  • The woofers from other speakers in my room damage the sound (not sure how dealers do demos then when they have many speakers in the room often times?)
To me that is going a bit too overboard...My personality is not THAT OCD when it comes to this hobby. If i were to take things to that extreme, i would probably just turn this room back into a full theater by adding another row of chairs, stars in the ceiling, a small popcorn machine and just enjoy watching "frozen" with my daughter. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
The way I can compare amps with different speakers is very simple: I use the same songs over and over and over and over and over. Easy for me to tell the change in characters, emotional engagement, smoothness, brightness, etc. The Rowland are still the best amps due to their balanced sound throughout. Nothing is missing with the Rowlands or the momentum. The way I can gauge things even after many months is because I’ve lived with the ref10 for quite sometime. Its tonality is engraved in my head. I know what tubes sound like. I am clear on their highs and gorgeous mids. Im not sure I can agree on audio research having rolled off highs. I think they have engaging, non faitiguing highs like the Luxman and momentum. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Yes Here’s the scoop on the mometum:
it will be HARD to beat the momentum. I don’t think the Luxman combo beats it. The Luxman has a lot of the Dag smoothness and liquidity though but as I stated before, you GOTTA match the Luxman with Luxman. They just work amazingly together. Techno, right now you have no clue how good your 900u is. Trust me you will know it’s capability once you try the c900u with it. Dump the McIntosh and find the 900u preamp. Those 2 for the money are hard TJ beat.

Jimmy: the momentum integrated just takes away the tedious work of having to match cables. It even comes with a transparent power cord. Yes the mometum would literally make you forget about amps and preamps for a very long time. 
If I had 25-30k to burn on a preamp and amp and the speakers aren’t something crazy hard to drive Then get the mometum integrated and trust me you won’t be scratching your head over it.
That said, the mometum WILL go through a full test once my Neoliths arrive. If It can push them with great presence, detail, clarity and soundstage at moderate to low volume then watch out. I may sell the rest of my gear and keep the momentum. Of course separates will be better but right now my wife is flipping her lid off at midnight when I’m listening to music at 90+dB.
So I suspect (I could be wrong) that the separates would be great if I could let the volume climb without anyone complaining.
I hope to have my dedicated room sometime next year. The Neoliths truly deserve it.

Techno: get the damn 900u preamp. Trust me on this. I don’t recommend anyone to sell their 900u for anything else.

Ron: you gotta listen to the Luxman 900u amp. The 870a is great but man the Luxman is insane. It will blow you away.
The only way I recommend for anyone to sell their 900u pieces is if they are going to go up the ladder to the mometum, soulution, new constellation stuff or Rowland 925s. I’m telling you all, you will regret selling the Luxman pieces. I owned them 4 times and I wish I had them in here but the show must go on!!
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Oh oh :)
looks like someone has officially found the amps that I will reviewing this month :)
yes ladies and gentlemen, block audio will soon be making an appearance hopefully this month. Thanks to a good dealer who will let me audition these in my own home with the Neolith. I told you all... my next moves are not for the faint of heart.
Word on the street is that these are gryphon-like but on steroids. Immense juice and power. 
I’ve always had a thing for huge monstrous amps and these are what the doctor prescribed for me. 
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Ron: which yg did you get? Yes I had offered to buy your simaudiio when I was struggling with the mágicos hunger for more power. I was also looking to try two 860a in mono mode but couldn’t find a second 860a so I gave up. Oh well man, I’ve moved on and now I’m looking forward to the massive Monos that are coming. Why haven’t you spoken up man about your new yg?? Give us your input and what speakers did you replace. 
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I’d need to wait until I have my Neoliths. I can’t really speak too much about it until I have a true full range speaker. That said, of course, you’ll always find something for less money that checks your boxes, but this doesn’t mean it is better. The momentum isn’t about being bass heavy or a club sounding unit. It is about finesse, engagement, musicality. 
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Minorl:
i didn’t have any issues with the magico. They need quality watts for sure though. The only reason why I’ve moved on is because I wanted the magico m3 and that deal fell through. I continued exploring other options and that lead me to finally doing the deal with a pair of Neolith. Magico will be a speaker I will revisit down the road along with Wilson and yg. My biggest curse will be me getting used to the massive soundstage of the Neolith and my ears detecting how much smaller every speaker will sound in comparison. This has happened to me once already when I heard the Neoliths. However, your brain forgets just like anything else. Living with the Neoliths will be an interesting experience that I greatly look forward to. 
Lets not forget that my journey with panels was as follows:
Martin Logan esl
martin logan theos
martin logan montis 
martin logan summit x
martin Logan 15a 
martin logan 13a
martin logan Clx 

and now there’s no other way I can go but above..
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Awesome. I’ll get around to power cords at some point. 
The Neoliths are getting delivered tomorrow! 
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I Hey Ron,
i may be taking some yg hailey 1.2 as well besides the Neoliths... i was offered an awesome deal on the Sonja 2.2 but I saw them in person and they are just massive. I feel they are just as overwhelming in sheer size as the Neolith. Lastly, a speaker that big can be difficult to move just like the Neolith but the reason why I wasn’t so concerned with the Neolith is that I know I will like them. I don’t have a doubt in my mind that the Neolith will surprise me but I can’t speak about the Sonja 2.2. I can’t invest on a speaker that huge without ever trying any of their offerings. Having vast experience with the Logans, I feel good about it. Remember, I have owned more Martin Logan speakers than any other speaker brand. I have a very good idea of what I can expect, but the unknown factor will be owning Martin Logan’s best speaker ever and seeing what they are capable of. 
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The Martin Logan Neoliths have arrived and are now under my roof :)
now it’s a matter of getting help to unpack them and bring them inside. We shall see when that will be done :)
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I suspect me taking on this journey with block audio will be a game changer. At 65k usd, this is the perfect amp to throw against the Rowland’s. 
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Neoliths have been fired up with the momentum. Impressions:
1. Very warm sounding when compared to the magico. 
2. No real fatigue regardless of volume level 
3. All the bass you could ever wish for. 
4. Something is missing at this time. Not sure what it can be. 
5. More real horsepower needed? 

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Just started to get them to sing better. 
-8db in the bass jumpers and dialed in the second cross over for the right woofer distance. 
Swapped out the silver power cords to the big power cords they come with and connected them to my p20. Great improvement. The gryphon is pushing them with ease.. Volume is at 25 out of 40. This is equivalent to about 95 db from my listening chair.  Right now they are starting to hit a stride. The Momentum will enter the arena shortly and try again. 
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I suspect the momentum doesn’t like my Wireworld platinum 7 cables and likes the transparent cables I was using when I heard it with the other speakers. I may need to try those again and report back 
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Right now the momentum did not really do anything for me. It loved regular tweeters though. I suspect the Neolith will need my ref10 paired with the block audios.
next up: gryphon Diablo 300. Will let it warm up before I judge it. 
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If someone said these have a small sweet spot then they are probably listening to them in the bathroom of the room where they were being displayed. I have 3 chairs next to each other and I’m here sitting all the way to the right and I can hear the left speaker sparkle and sing to me. I don’t feel like I can only hear the speaker I’m sitting in front of. Again, I’m going to little by little kill any bs spoken before. In short, no the Neolith do not have a narrow sweet spot.
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Patience is what I will have. 
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Thanks techno.
The manual says:

Break-In
When you first begin to play your Neolith speakers, they will sound a bit bass shy. This is due to the high quality, long-life components used in our woofer. Our custom made woofer requires approximately 72 hours of break-in at 90 dB (moder- ate listening levels) before any critical listening. The break-in requirements of the crossover components (and, to a lesser degree, the stator) are equivalent. 
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I can’t do 6 feet. Mine are 2 feet which is the minimum distance recommended. If I did 6 feet they would block the living room lol. I need to just play with their placement. I’m getting them to sound better little by little. 
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great amp speedbump6. i was looking for a pair of 900e monos myself just yesterday !!
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No because I’ve been very busy with so many things. My room is what it is for now until I can hopefully build a dedicated room next year Unless something else comes up. 
For now, I’ll play with them and toe them in or out etc and possibly bring them out a few more inches. The bass is WOW WOW WOW. The best bass I’ve heard from any speaker in my room. My biggest disappointment is that I feel I’m lacking that 3D effect and what I was told is that the panels need far greater juice to do this on the Neolith. My integrateds are great with them but they are not going to show me what this speaker can do. I was hoping to consolidate to an integrated if I could convince myself it was good enough but I can’t lie to myself. The Neoliths are demanding a 10. Litter twin turbo viper engine or else I’ll still feel like I’m driving a naturally aspirated Dodge Charger. 
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Update:
the momentum has better bass than gryphon. No question about it.
Dan continues to school all manufacturers when it comes to oomph. 
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Brought the speakers out one more foot so they are about 5ft off the back wall. I hear an improvement FOR SURE. VERY DRASTIC ACTUALLY. Now I’m trying to see how much toe in it will need or if the flashlight should be good but it’s not clear to me where to shine it.
FYI: this speaker is CRAZY transparent. I was playing an old cd from lynyrd skynard and I felt that it sounded a little dull. Then I went to the master mqa version and it was like whoa. A whole different amount of sound. I’ve never heard such a drastic change. The presentation is dead center and it almost sounds as if the artist is standing between both speakers. The mids are just immense. 
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