2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Here we go:
Ayre vs luxman c900u

https://youtu.be/UigSFEBiNws
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Let me start by first addressing MIkePaul:
MikePaul, get rid of that Krell amp. Krell never sounded any good to me with electrostatics. I had the 402e, duo300 and im sure another krell that i cant recall and they were nothing special with panels. Toss that amp out and get yourself either a gs150 audio research or a pass labs 160.5/8. Once you hear those THEN you will realize how NOT GOOD your current krell is. Electrostatics love class a amps and tubes.

As far as the rest of the conversations going on in regards to Merrill amps:
Yes, i have read about them. I love their look, on paper they seem to be something that has alot of potential. i also like that they seemed to have looked at every single detail from power cord, to amp stands and that is something that nobody else has ever done (that i know of?).
That said, at $36k retail, they are in the big leagues and the competition at that price point is no joke and because of this, the massive loss one will take if one decides to jump on them and don’t like them will be huge.
Merrill has been known for class d and i still believe the belcanto black system is the best incarnation of PURE CLASS D (Rowland 925s have other tricks in them besides that).
At this time, unless Merrill sent me a pair to demo for 30 days and i was blown away by them, i can’t see myself grabbing them.
Lastly, remember one thing guys, i can’t keep this thread alive if i make bad investments. I walk a fine line in regards to my purchases. I don’t like to buy something i am not completely sure about UNLESS again, i get a screaming deal that i was not even looking for.
For me to spend top dollar on a product it has to be that i heard it somewhere and i literally couldn’t get off the couch and i have to have it.
Why do you think i have not visited Mike @ Suncoast audio? because i know he probably has an amp that i will be blown away by and i just don’t want to commit to spending 30,000 dollars on an amplifier. I have my budget to be spread out in ratios and 30k for a single amp is not in my plans.

Before i forget, Viber, if you end up getting those element 118s, i would like to hear your impressions for sure and hey if you want me to give you my opinion then pack them up and i will send you prepaid shipping labels. i can let you borrow one of my amps. Oh wait, what amps? lol i only have the ps audio bh300s, BAT 600SE and Gryphon Diablo 300 :)
Make no mistake, my next amps will have to be magical. I am looking to see if i can truthfully top those rowlands. I know some of you hate it when i venture into expensive amplifiers and message me telling me you are kinda getting bored of me reviewing expensive amps SO THAT IS WHY i have the bh300s and the bat 600se on hand so i can give you a comparison to both, top end up and mid fi amplifiers.

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
One day, i might start a thread on preamplifiers. I wish i could do speakers, but they are too much to deal with and they are a pain to sell. 
I commend those dealers that have the ability to live off of selling mainly speakers. If i were to do this for a living some day, i would have a website and a store with only select preamplifiers and a massive amount of power amplifiers from all budgets. I feel like amplifiers are the easiest component to sell when you are done with it. There is always someone who needs an amplifier, but not everyone needs a preamp. Some use bluray players and dacs as preamps and some use processors as preamps such as the mx160. 
Amplifiers have been my passion and although lately i have not had my hands on any killer amps, i know it is a matter of time before i do. 
Here are my next moves:
i will be comparing the xxxxx mono blocks to everything i can think of when they are available in November. I may borrow a pair of Rowland 925s and a pair of 900u monos. 
That is the one shoot out that i am dying to hear. That said, there is one thing i don't want to fail to tell you all: Sometimes the matching preamp is a must with some amplifiers. I felt that the luxman 900u always sounded amazing with its 900u preamp and i also felt that the audio research line had the most synergy together as well. I was just recently told to try Shindo preamps and so let's see where that idea goes. 
The Ref10 is becoming the second component i have held on to the longest (second to the simaudio 860). I really can not think of any other preamp i rather own. I think only the successor could best it. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
So I’m not going to lie, I feel like part of the reason why the thread has derailed and turned into arguments has been partially my fault. I have been unable to keep adding more interesting reviews because I simply can’t get my hands on gear of interest to me. This has opened the door for conversations that lead to what we all have read and seen. I wish I could keep the plane flying straight at 25,000 ft up in the air because it seems like auto pilot isn’t really working. My apologies here as I am finding that this show is in “intermission” while I prepare the next act. All I ask is that you all take a break, stretch, go to the bathroom and pretty soon return to your seats. ACT 2 will hopefully raise the bar for all of you.

Lastly, I want to thank those of you who have sent me their own gear for review or shared their music with me. I appreciate the trust that some of you put in me without ever meeting me in person. It’s tough to find honest people these days. That’s mainly one reason why I decided to start this journey.
One last thing, I’ve always kept all my positive AND NEGATIVE experiences with dealers to myself. It hasn’t always been perfect doing business and I’ve had rough situations that I have fortunately handled successfully but make no mistake there’s always someone looking to pull a fast one on you when money is involved. I’m not about any of that. I’m simply a hobbyist that enjoys this and shares it with people like you.  
Enjoy this intermission... then sit your @sses down and fasten your seatbelts. The captain will soon be in his chair to get this plane moving. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Top 3 amps:
Rowland 925
luxman 900
pass labs 200.5

top 3 preamps 
ref10
ref6
luxman c900u

top speakers:
hmm that’s a hard one. The room plays a big role in my opinion in terms of selecting a speaker. 
magico
wilson
vivid audio g1 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I had someone ask me a very interesting question last week. The question was if I was to retire today and was able to only take one amp, which one would it be? 
Thats a hard question.... I have to think about it a little more. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Interesting Santabarbara. I will need to look into them. 
The xs150 amps are great but you need speakers that are at least 93db efficient or the amps run out of class a. 
I prefer the 200.5 for the money. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I’m not there but I have mike from suncoast audio updating me on what he’s seeing and what’s catching his attention. 
They seem to have the Neoliths and Agostino progression Monos. I also keep seeing Magico being displayed with constellation Monos. The word on the street is that the new constellation amps are off the charts. I keep being told that I must listen to them. 
You all need to remember that the first version of their Amps really sucked according to some of my sources. This is WHY the used market was flooded with them at crash prices. That said, the new stuff they have such as the centaur 2, Taurus Monos... that’s supposed to be outstanding in all regards. Hmmm. 

I may have to go visit mike so I can listen to them. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
If i were to build a home theater rig all over again, i would totally go with class d amps. for all my channels. That said, i have been told that it is NEVER EVER a good thing to mix solid state with class d amps. For example, to have class a amps running your front left and front right speakers and then a class d amp running the rest of your speakers. I heard the timing is different and class d are much faster sounding.
I just would not buy a big 160 lb class ab amp anymore for home theater. I would do all class d. They run cooler, easier to place anywhere, they are quieter, and on and on and on. You aren’t exactly worrying about the damn soundstage width, depth, separation etc etc. That is WHY room correction exists for home theater.
IMAX and many theaters are now doing class d for this reason. Class d is just perfect for this purpose. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Actually I remember who told me this... it was classe audio. I wanted to use the cam600s for fronts and their sigma 5 for the rest and they said nope. Not a good idea. Etc etc etc etc. That’s where it came from. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Interesting Ron. Will keep it in mind. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Class d amps are the way to go with home theater. They are as good as any solid state amp unless you’re talking a serious amp like a Plinius Odeon. That’s a different league.
One last thing, I do remember someone selling the ati class d to go back to ati signature. He said he didn’t like it with his revel salon 2s. Too bright sounding. Again, this was him using class d for his front speakers in order to listen to music too.
That said, I can only imagine what a home theater would sound like if it had Krell 900e Monos for each of the 11 channels. :)
the electric bill and the heat would be serious though.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
This still holds true about the ref6 and luxman.

Well, my 2 new components have arrived. My ayre will probably pack its bags to go to a new home after I put it through its last shootout next week.
Tonight I will make a short video about my latest additions... stay tuned...
One last thing, the preamp I will introduce tonight is the last preamp i will buy. If i still end up preferring the dac direct into the amps, then I’m done with preamps. They will become a "nice to have" and not a "must have " for me..
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Tjassoc: I’ve always said that those 200.5s are special. They are incredible amplifiers. I still would take them over the xs150. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Hahahah thanks Ron. Send me the link. 
I Haven’t ventured into more tube amps because of the heat and maintenance. I do love tubes. I can’t deny I love they make music. 
Ron, I may have you ship me the 870a and I’ll ship you a 900u when I get one. This way we both don’t have to pay any money to demo them. Don’t be shocked if you love the 900u lol. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Maybe or maybe not. I can’t put more time into this and not get compensated for my time. Looks interesting though. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Maybe or maybe not. I can’t put more time into this and not get compensated for my time. Looks interesting though. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
https://youtu.be/KYF9rw0X39w
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Boulder 2060: incredible construction and unmatched in that regard. Huge power and control but it lacks a wow factor. I think of their amps as the same effect a boiled chicken Breast  has on your taste buds without any condiments.... I prefer condiments in my food, whether it be tomatoes, onions, salsa etc. Boulder simply didn’t make me want to keep researching for its matching preamp. I can’t see myself going back to boulder and with Magico it probably is awful sounding. I prefer 2 Luxman 900u over the boulder 2060.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
 with the boulder i think i used monitor audio pl500 and audio research ref6 preamp. i also used it with the dynaudio evidence temptation speakers which were not that good of as speaker. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Its used...not new..no need to break it in. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
New video getting uploaded with my thoughts on AYRE, Preamps and the new Components are revealed !
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I was about to sell my Magico speakers and pick up alexias or another pair of Martin Logan 15a until I turned on my music today after not listening for a few days and I said “nah I can’t do it. Not ready for it “ 

could I use more bass? Sure but THAT is WHY I’m going to be trying more amplification with these. My take is that if all of a sudden my bass got deeper and tighter with a new set of amps, this means the amp is great at controlling the woofers of the Magico S5 mk2. It will be easy to hear these changes with these speakers. 
You’ll hear bass that they never gave you before and that’s going to be easy to perceive. 
As far as boulder, incredible looks and construction but the sound is just weird to me. It’s like watching a 4K movie with your colors all the way down and with no wow factor either. I can promise that if we had a shoot out of a boulder 2060 vs a pair of Luxman 900u, 9 out of 10 would choose the Luxman. 
By the way, the ref6 and Luxman 900u are both awesome but the Luxman always sounded best with its own amps. The ref6 will sound better with more systems than the 900u preamp. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Man...I don't want to spoil anything but I suspect I'm going to bed at 5am today..
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Magico: needs premium fuel to shine. You won’t get away with 87 octane here. Race gas is even better for these speakers. 
If you can’t afford 93 octane, then don’t even try.  Lots of engine knock and hesitation. 

Wilson: easy to drive with 87 octane. They do sound better with premium fuel. This speaker will drive just fine with 87 octane and will sound better than Magico with this type of gas. More wow factor than Magico aesthetically speaking. Every guest who came to my home was always drawn to my Sasha 2s. They always took pictures of these speakers. With the Magico s5, not so much. They look like any other speaker. 


jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
So just for fun I decided to connect the ps audio direcstream with bridge 2 to the diablo and well.... you can figure out what happens when you go from the esoteric k1 to the ps audio dac...
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
So I do believe subs will add more layers of bottom end that certain music can benefit from but again... crazy $ when you already have powered woofers. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I’ve owned the 803d3. They are good speakers and pretty. I was actually offered a great deal on a pair of 800d3 last night. I almost took the deal but right now if I went to another speaker it would be electrostatics. Other than the bass, I don’t have any complaints about the Magico. It’s just that they are expensive :)
I am also not a believer in using subs with full range speakers. I feel like if a full range speaker lacks bottom end then that’s just how the speaker is. I refuse to buy huge speakers and still have to buy two subs to get more bass unless we are talking about home theater. 
For example, the 800d3. If I bought them and I still needed more bass, then to me that’s a failure of a speaker. There’s no excuse for a ported speaker to not have enough bass. I’ve seen people buying large ported speakers and still using subs. That’s just not me. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Martin logan with room correction applied:

https://youtu.be/XSlSO92gPyI
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I may go up the ladder in Magico. Stay tuned.. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Can’t speak just yet because it will take different moving pieces for me to go up the ladder. It takes the buyer of my speakers, him paying, and me coming to a price agreement with the pair I want. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Air between instruments... hmmm. The 15a and clx are there for sure. Those are special speakers that do things most conventional speakers can’t. I don’t think I’ve heard better mids than what I heard through the clx. They were stunning in that regard. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I said it a million times, the Plinius Odeon is the best multi channel amp there is. Period. 
Krell tas is good but runs too hot. It was a good unit back in the day but there are far better options today. No need to get a tas and having to send it in to get recapped etc. Too much money and no real benefit when you have good amps today. 
Try those class d amps. They do a great job in home theater.  However, don’t expect the 2 channel experience to be out of this planet. There’s a reason why they are affordable amps with plenty of power. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I want to be clear: I am by no means trying to convince anyone here to use a preamp for their system instead of a dac direct into amplifier. I am simply giving my opinion with my own system and room.
That said, maybe one day in the near future there will be a dac that could change the way we are articulating things right now and totally change our perspective. I’d be thrilled if that day ever came because that means I can sell all my preamps.
If I could have 20 of you come over and do a blind fold comparison of my dcs Rossini vs a Momentum hd preamp, I think there would be many more believers. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Boulder is a great brand to deal with for sure. I just never got my feet to tap when playing the 2060. 
Techno: the Magico tweeter gives you nice detail but You must know how to match components with it. There’s zero room for error with it. 
I am happy with my s5 mk2. It’s an ultra detailed speaker. I would be totally ok staying with them for many years. They aren’t massive, they weigh a lot but they don’t take over your room with their size. I love that about them. The focal sopra 3 were good for the money but the Magico had more stuff happening between the speakers that I didn’t quite hear as clear with other speakers. 
as of today, NOT ONE Magico s5 mk2 has been listed.  Why ? Because in order to top it you’ll need to make a serious investment that many just don’t want to do. 
I find the Magico s5 mk2 better than the Sonus faber cremonese that I owned. 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@kren.
Excellent point. I could not have said it better myself.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I’m revisiting the Martin Logan Neolith option once again. My fear here is trying something so large and not finding it good for my room. The opinion of the Neolith is all over the map. Some say it’s amazing, the very best and others say it’s not coherent, too boomy in the bass etc.
I’ve heard it twice but I can’t say I heard it the way I need to hear it. It was a fast listening session with that music that they play at Disney. My ears can’t tell a difference if I play material I don’t know.
Bringing that elephant of a speaker, the logistics, the money I need to pay others to help me bring them inside and then not liking them is something that is keeping me from taking them.
Lastly, unfortunately I’m not the type of person that goes to a dealer to audition something and with intentions of buying from someone else. I feel somewhat embarrassed unless it’s magnolia Best Buy then yes I don’t care to go in there.
The pair I have available at a good deal is crated and ready to ship so I can’t hear it.
Decisions...
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Snafujg: who told you I don’t like revel salon 2? They are awesome speskers for the money. However, I wouldn’t use a Luxman integrated with them. They need something like a gryphon Diablo 300 at the very least. Revel needs quality juice and they sounded their best in my room with the ref10 and the Simaudio 860a amp. That combo was magical. Trust me on this !
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Possibly right guys. Right now I can’t say much else  other than there are several speaker brands im contemplating. 
Focal, Dynaudio, Wilson. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Good points above and I appreciate you all wanting to read my thoughts.
That said, I went to bed at 3am listening to this Momentum gear and have to do more listening over the next few days. I love what I do and it’s great to have followers that also enjoy my journey.
I also want to THANK YOU ALL because I think
the thread has turned around ALOT and there is much less bickering and arguing other than just disagreements which is fine.

Quick question, does the shoot out of the gryphon coliseum with ayre preamp and luxman c900u interest anyone?
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
My room is about 18 feet wide and 24 long, but i sit about 8-9 feet away.
i got confirmation that the focal scala evo is far superior to the sopra 3. i was told it is more refined, more relaxed and better bottom end. Again, i don't really know. 
I am going to be looking for an "interim" speaker until i locate a pair of magico m3 speakers. The ones i was going to buy unfortunately sold already so let's see. 
My thoughts for "interim" speakers are:

Martin Logan 15a
Martin logan 13a
Focal Scala Evo
Wilson Audio Alexia 1
Dynaudio Confidence 60 (to be released in December)
Revel Salon 2s

Those are pretty much speakers that i can handle in terms of size and weight and not much of a pain to ship once i find the M3 magicos. 
i am not really contemplating anything else at this time. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Alexia 2s are now on the table... stay tuned...
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Dan D Agostino Momentum m400s and Boulder 2110 for the first time!

https://youtu.be/_e2tJMeux3s
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I don’t think I’ll be getting alexia 1 unless I find a deal that has never been seen online before. 
I’m still in talks about the focal scala Evo. That conversation is still going. I’d love to hear that speaker in my room. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Thank you guys for the advice. Let’s wait and see where it all leads me. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Makes sense and thank you for thoughts. Right now, I CAN NOT justify buying ANY OTHER preamplification if the goal is to mate it with the 900u amp. To me, it's a WASTE of money and time and the improvement isn't really significant or any at all in some cases. Spending 20k on a preamp to only improve 5% from the 900u preamp is not smart at all. 
As far as the momentum stuff, it is BY FAR THE BEST LOOKING equipment I've ever owned. When it comes to sound, you'll need to stay tuned to find out my impressions. Is the momentum S250 the star of the combo or is it the HD momentum preamp ? I don't know ... I haven't separated them yet but I have heard them here last night and I'll make a video later on.

Up next, Gryphon Colosseum wakes up from the dead and joins forces with the C900u and Ayre KXR TWENTY preamp. Is this where the 900u preamp begins to lose ? Or will it still hang with the $30k Ayre KXR TWENTY preamp ? Stay tuned...
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Update: there are zero Scala Utopia Evo at this time. They are on a huge back order.
I have a great opportunity on a pair of Wilson Alexia 1 through a good connection of mine. The Alexia 2 I went to see yesterday were just not in good shape. Too many nicks, chipped off paint and touched up in many places with touch up paint. They wouldn’t budge on the price so I walked out. Of course they called me to let me know they will try to work with me but when I’m told by the store manager that they aren’t desperate to sell and that the store is doing a lot of business so they don’t need the money, that kinda leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth that feels painful afterwards.
I feel like if a store can let a client walk out with $40,000 PLUS dollars in his hands and they DONT try to make something happen then hey maybe they don’t need the money and I guess they have a lot of people sitting outside making a line waiting to drop $40k with them.
The funny part is I was the only customer in the whole store...
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Here is where i am: Do i want to hear an Alexia 1 in MY ROOM to see how it compares to my old Sasha 2? hell yes. Do i want to have to compete to try to sell it once i am ready to move on to the next one? hell no. Unfortunately the market is flooded, but that will soon come to an end and once it dries out then things will stabilize.

As far as the Scala Utopia EVO: i would LOVE to try this new speaker. I want to see how much better it is than the Sopra 3 i had here. Will it get closer to the magico? if so, how much closer? This speaker intrigues me because i know it is a speaker that NOBODY has reviewed which kinda makes me eager to be the first one to write a solid review on it. Of course, some say this speaker is not at the same level of my magico or even the Wilson. Some say it is below. However, you all know me by now. I want to see for myself how good or bad it is. I know THIS SPEAKERS was totally re-worked from its previous version. A lot of new adjustments are not on this model that were not there before.

Alexia 2: I would totally see how this animal would do against the S5 magico. Did this Alexia 2 distanced itself from the magico s5 that justifies its 20k price difference? My only problem is that yes the market is controlled, tight, not a single Wilson Alexia 2 has sold here and so of course prices are crazy high. Let me put it this way, a Wilson Alexia 1 can be had for about 24-26k used right now, but the Alexia 2 comes in 20,000 dollars on top at the very least if you find a dealer willing to do a deal which is not an easy thing to find. So the question is,  let’s just say hypothetically speaking i were to buy an alexia 2 for $45,000 vs $25k for the Alexia 1. is the alexia 2 $20,000 better? if i were to hear both next to each other, does the alexia 2 sound incredibly superior that my ears would be able to easily tell a difference? i know Wilson claims it is a totally re-worked speaker, etc. Without having owned the Alexia 1, it would be hard for me to gauge how much better the Alexia 2 is.
Of course i hear people telling me that the Alexia 2 is just a million miles better than the Alexia 1 and then i have others that tell me that it is only slightly better than the first generation and that is it. So yes, this is a tricky move when it comes to the Alexia 1 and 2.

When it comes to other brands, i am just not really that much interested in a brand that i can’t at least recuperate most of my investment from. I can’t go out there and buy Raidho (terrible resale) or brands that i know i will have to bury with me in my casket. I wish i would buy and try everything, but the reality is that what i buy TODAY will eventually be someone else’s gear tomorrow.

On another note, the amplifier market is crappy right now. i have yet to see ONE SINGLE AMP that i want. There is NOTHING listed on here that makes me want it as of today. The only amp i was contemplating was the musical fidelity titan. I want to try that beast, but it was not the right deal for me so i moved on. THIS IS WHY, i am very eager to try the "mysterious" amps i will be trying early next month... DON’T FORGET about those amps because i am going to be trying to take down those rowland 925s. They are still at the top spot for me due to their sheer beauty and immense sound with gobs of clarity. However, i had to do lots of homework and carefully inform myself in order to select those 200 lb chassis with 500 watts of power to be the next contender that i will be throwing in the ring with the Rowlands. November will bring me a new set of speakers and monstrous mono blocks. It will be a hell of a month.


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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Interesting. I agree that they only review those products that they advertise. I can’t blame them but that leaves a lot of products off the table. Funny thing is they hardly review McIntosh. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
People kiss up to what he says like he’s the last word to be heard. Yes he has knowledge and sure he has the reputation but I agree with your point: a lot of what John Atkinson says comes with a subliminal message. I’m sure his paychecks are no chump change and the perks must be quite good. I wish I could be a fly on his wall to see what is being said behind closed doors in regards to some of the gear he reviews.
That said, I see the other side as well which is maybe he can’t really speak his mind about how he feels about certain products. Everyone and their mother is suing nowadays. You can’t even fart at a movie theater without getting sued. I actually know someone who got sued by a woman who came with her husband to listen to some speakers he was selling. The woman slipped and fell inside the house and she was fine. They listened to music etc and then all of a sudden he got a letter saying she got home and had chest pain and hurt her back so now she had a bunch of medical bills. This is what this world has come to.
I miss those days when I was a kid That you were able to go to the back patio and fight the kid that had beef with you then after the fight was over we both were separated and went home and that was it. If I got knocked out or he got knocked out then oh well. The beef was over and done with. Those were the good old days.
Those days when you could say to someone “ you gotta a problem with me? Let’s step outside and fix it” and then you told your friend “here hold my watch”.
The legal system has created such an imbalance. It forces people to do what they don’t want to do and also it doesn’t let people fix their own problems by being rational. By talking things out and being fair.
I always try to fix things and being fair. I believe that NOT ONE PERSON here that I’ve sold equipment to can say anything bad about me. I think there was only one guy who I sold the boulder 2060 who texted me this long thing a few days after he received the amp where he stated he was going to call PayPal that I sold him something with problems because the amp was humming and he couldn’t stop it etc. I roll out of bed and see that long text and said “ man you gotta relax. Give me the chance to see what’s going on and troubleshoot. Let’s Skype later etc. So when we get on Skype that afternoon I walked him through several steps and bingo. Problem was solved. It was his crappy Comcast cable box which I’ve known are notorious for introducing humming sound to big amps. Then he apologized to me a million times and said to forgive his ignorance etc. 
I told him it’s fine man. Just look at my thread and feedback.  I’m not going anywhere. 

anyhow, let’s get back on topic
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