coming today...the reveal..
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab
Rendu was connected via USB to my esoteric k1. I was streaming using roon from my iPad. I found zero difference between the sonore and my laptop. I’m actually willing to say my laptop sounded a little more detailed believe it or not. The sonore was probably a little warmer but no way in hell its worth 3295 dollars in my system. What I’m thinking it could Be is the fact that my esoteric k1 does not give a damn where the signal is coming from. It will internally turn that signal into what it needs to. |
Hi guys and thanks for all your input in regards to the neoliths. I want all the feedback possible. That said, yes I agree the neoliths are physically huge and not my first choice in terms of its sheer mass but the sound I may get from them might a game changing experience. Think about it, 2 huge panels creating that kind of sound. How could you miss any sort of detail or information within your music? How could you miss any cable upgrades? I think it becomes a matter of their size at that point what impresses in terms of sound. I am a believer that when you own something so huge, for the most most part anything else will sound small and compressed in comparison. Its kind of like my Yukon XL. You step inside of it and you feel like you’re inside the President’s ride. Big, spacious, plenty of leg room, very comfortable etc but then you get inside your friends Lexus rx350... now you don’t have all this leg room, the big ride feeling with tons of comfort all around you. You lose the massive torque and grunt of the 6.2 liter engine, towing power and so on... I feel like owning the neoliths would be exactly the same thing. Your ears will be used to that massive wall of sound that just about any other smaller speaker you hear will sound much smaller and present less. This doesn’t mean it will be worse, but you can’t really make up for sheer size. Another example would be a projector compared to a tv. Yes you can get a quality 4k 80 inch tv but it WILL NEVER give you the feeling of being there the way a 120-160 inch projector screen can. You won’t get the feeling of being at the movies when you watch a movie through a tv. It’s impossible. Trust me I tried this myself after owning projectors and now owning a 77 inch tv. Every time I watch a movie it feels as if I’m watching tv. It is exactly this feeling what is steering me to the neoliths. Knowing that at that point and once you own something like it, anything else will seem inferior in comparison. You are pretty much at a level in terms of speakers that you really won’t question what other speaker to get. |
Rendu connected to the router using wireworld eclipse 7 Ethernet. Rendu connected to the esoteric dac using wireworld platinum usb cable. Rendu connected to the ps audio p20 power conditioner using wireworld silver 7 power cord. Laptop is simply turned on and connected to WiFi and running roon. Me sitting on the couch using iPad to stream tidal via roon through rendu. Results? Zero. No different than using my laptop and connecting straight to my dac with the usb cable. |
Alright men, lots of information in regards to electrostatics. im personally a fan which is why I’ve owned the ethos, montis,summit, 13a, 15a, clx. Each had their pros and cons but the clx blew me away. They had a midrange that I was never able to get from any other speaker ever. Not even Magico. That said, did you notice my journey above with Panels ? Each model got larger and larger ? If I do the neoliths, I expect them to truly recycle the Magicos, Wilson’s that I’ve owned. They must MUST destroy anything else I’ve owned. There shouldn’t be a single speaker that I’ve owned that close remotely close or else I’ll be extremely disappointed. I will know if the neoliths will happen next week. The deal is almost finalized, but I don’t count on anything until it’s done and on their way to me. On top of that, I am also negotiating my next pair of Monos which I hope to try with Magico before they are gone. |
My goal if I get the neoliths will be to bring home these: pass labs xa200.8 agostino momentum agostino progression Pass labs xs300 gryphon Mephisto gryphon antileon evo and if the Stars align then I’ll do the dartzeel 458 Monos. I just don’t think I can get a deal on these. So far the agostino amps have presented a challenge for me to get a deal on. I have to wait until a dealer takes them in on trade or finally someone sells theirs. Pass labs xs300 I can get tomorrow at a great deal but the heat is a cause for concern for me. Guys, the neoliths could happen but it’s not a done deal. The logistics to bring a speaker of that size are no joke. I pretty much have to take a day off from work just to take delivery and bring them in the house plus hire 3 men to help out. I also think about the time when they need to exit my room someday... it’s one hell of a job to do. I don’t want anymore electrostatics unless it’s the neoliths. |
They are still here. I’m listening to the speakers very differently. I listen for a few days to the same speaker and then switch to the other one. I need to let my ears setttle for a day or two with each speaker so I get used to their sound and this makes it easier for me to pick up the differences. UPDATE: pass labs xa200.8 will be at my door in about 3 weeks. I remember listening to the 200.5s and I was really floored. That amp was probably the best amp I’ve heard from pass labs. We shall see if the xa200.8 can elevate things that much more. Thr xs150 was great but I made it come out of class A rather easy and it ran too damn hot. I felt like my room was just unbearable to be honest. |
Magico: after not hearing them for about 4 days, I fired them up today and I realize many things. 1. Our ears adjust to music and the sound the longer we listen. If we stop listening for a bit and come back a few days later to listen, you are most likely to be blown away by what you own. 2. Magico although it’s very accurate, it needs juice. It can’t be without the right amplification. 3. I have locked in a deal on my next set of monos :) |
I’m telling you, Magico needs massive power even if listen at low volume. A small amp won’t work even if you listen at 85 dB. Let me put it this way, I tried the gryphon again yesterday and the sound collapsed at 85-90dbs. Basically the size of the stage collapses at low volume. You need huge power even at low volume in order for the speakers to open up at this volume level. You can not get away with baby amps here. Will they work? Sure but I’m telling you that you lose magic. The bass thins out as well with small amps at 85 dB. With big power you will hear the bass thump at low volumes. |
Listening to the sopra 3s right now after 4 days of not listening to them. Here are a few thoughts: Speaker is a great bang for the money. It’s not to difficult to place and just sounds good. You can connect it with just about any component and it sounds great. No drama with this speaker of any kind. I’ve tried 3 amps with them and it sounds good with all of them. I also tend to hear a few things within the music that are not so apparent on the magicos but I also hear certain things on the magico that I don’t hear on the focals. If you want a speaker that will just sound good without giving you headaches or having to buy 10 cables and amps and preamps to get it to sound good, THIS IS YOUR SPEAKER. Easy to deal with it and well in my opinion it’s far more beautiful than the s5 mk2. Ladies and gentleman, if you don’t have the time and don’t want the effort (just like I do each week) and simply want to sit down and enjoy, look Into these sopra 3s. You will remember me. With that said, the magico s5 mk2 have more of an industrial look. There’s nothing really wow about them when you have the sopra 3 next to them in terms of looks. That said, the magico s5 mk2 has more transparency. It almost feels at times as if another curtain lifts up to let you listen with more liquidity. It contains bass which is only there but with the right amplifier. Also, don’t think for one second that the s5 mk2 is the type of speaker you can just throw into the room and then hook up your 100 watt per channel amp. No way Jose. This is not the speaker for the person that wants to just plug and play. This is the speaker that will reward you tremendously by taking your time placing it right, measuring distances, buying the right electronics etc. This does not mean tbey will sound bad if you just throw them In the room and connect your baby amp to them but you aren’t even close to really hearing them at their best. Simply put, and I’m sorry for saying things this way but the magico s5 mk2 IS NOT for broke people. It just makes no sense to have something of this caliber and skimp on the rest. When you own this, you need to immediately think about your front end. You need to think agostino, audio research, monster powerful amps, dcs, cardas, nordost, etc And embark on big journey. Granted, you don’t have to do this if you work with a dealer who knows their stuff. This is WHY you pay them top dollar on a product like this. You earn their expertise and direction so you don’t have to do all of what I do. I simply do it because I enjoy it all. I like hearing my own results and conclusions. I like seeing what changed in the sound when I swap things out. Finaliy, I close this by saying that the magico s5 mk2 makes it much easier for me to pick up the differences in sound when I change anything out. Today I noticed an immediate change but changing cables for example and BECAUSE OF THIS and the fact that I’m a tweaker and love to change amps, preamps, sources, cables, etc constantly, I decided to keep the magico s5 mk2. They are a great instrument for my hobby and my journey. I will part ways with the focal sopra 3s soon. They are an incredible speaker and can make anyone easily happy. |
ok guys, my Focal Sopra 3s have now been listed. For those of you who wanted to "verify" my ownership of what i talk about, you can see the magicos and the focals on the picture... Ref 10 in the back, mc601s on the floor, the gryphon, the simaudio..etc..etc... Wasn't there someone in this thread who said they would buy my focals or magico once i was done with either one of them??? speak up , they are listed :) |
brhatten: The wilson sasha 2 uses a soft dome tweeter which makes the speakers more laid back when compared to the magico. The sasha 2 sounds huge, dynamic, never fatiguing regardless of the volume level and never strains. The only thing is that the sasha 2 relies alot on the room to give you accurate bass. If your room isn't the best then the sasha could present a problem when it comes to bass. The magico s5 mk2 has more detail so it is more forward sounding than the wilson. I find it easier to place as well since it does not rely in your room too much in order to give you bass. Speaking of bass, you can not buy low powered amps with the s5 mk2. The Wilson's will forgive you and sound good with many low powered amps. Both speakers are really good at what they do. It is a matter of taste at this level. |
guys, the mcintosh 601s have more power than anything else have here. This is like you comparing a mustang 5.0 with 800hp vs a camaro ls1 with the factory 320 hp. Of course the 800hp will be more of a show. In order for us to gauge what the 601s are capable of we need to bring other monos that hover around the same price. I don't exactly expect the 601s to come within striking distance of the xa200.8s. I expect the 601s to melt on top of the massive heat of the xa200.8s. I am not even going to contemplate a shootout between both because you all will say "oh how can you compare an amp that is 42k vs 15k" etc blah blah blah... |
The room can’t be done until later this year or early next year. I got many other things to do to my home that are a little more important. I’m not about to drop 10k in my living room with treatments, carpet or anything else when I’m planning to do that in my dedicated space. I gotta play in the room that I got. Each speaker will get judged in the same raw conditions you see. No speaker or amplifier will have any sort of help by my room. Either pass or fail. That’s all there is to it. Im gonna select what sounds best in the room that you see and that’s about it. You all know that many of you have the saaame damn thing I got in terms of a room. No treatment, no nothing. All my gear is running a race barefoot and nobody is getting any damn shoes at all here. I think of it as those kids in South America that play soccer barefoot because they are poor and have no money to buy any soccer shoes but yet they still get discovered because you can see their talent even without any damn soccer shoes. It’s the same thing I’m doing. I can detect a good amp in rooms that aren’t the best spaces. I don’t need a perfect room in order to know if something has clear signs of greatness. I’ve been doing this since day 1 when I started this journey. I’m technically “used to playing without any soccer shoes. My feet are used to the rocks from the streets which cause me no pain anymore”. |
Greyhound: you can’t measure the improvement you get based on how much more $ you spend. I’m estimating that the pass labs xa200.8 will be improving things by about 30% and my Magico dealer said it will be a 50% improvement when I swap out the 601s. I remember listening to the 200.5s: full sound with intense control. You feel as if your speakers are being pushed by an amplifier with turbos. They mangled the woofers and gave me full bodied sound across all frequencies. |
I think dagogo is being financed by MIT. I have tried many power cords with all my previous pass amps and I didn’t hear any difference. I then called passed labs about it and they said their amps are built in a way internally that powercords don’t make any difference.... sooo yes I’m not buying what dagogo is selling about MIT... man if I was getting free gear by anyone I’d be typing all day about them as well... but there isn’t a free lunch here. |
did you say the xa200.8 is not powerful? let me tell you something... the xa200.5 was a monster in terms of the sound i got from it. It sounded massively powerful. If the x200.8 can't force music out of the magicos with a sense of precision and power then i don't know if anything else will. Lastly, i am looking to improve on what i have and yes i am quite happy with the magico right now after i added more power to them. |
Never any esoteric amps. The only amps from esoteric that I’d buy are the grandiosos. I don’t think the m900us will have the needed bottom end to get the magico speaker to give you that bass that punches you. For now, I’ll lay low as far as any updates and just wait on the 200.8s. They should be here by the end of the month or first week in September. They take time to be built and pass labs builds to order |
I wouldn’t mind trying the 28b3. I just opted for the 200.8s instead. Maybe I trade my 601s for the 28b3s at some point. I was offered the 1.2kw at a hell of a deal but I owned them before and they did not best the 200.5s I owned. I also haven’t heard any great things on the new 611s or 1.25kw. I have access to 1.25kw right now but if i get them and don’t like them, I am stuck with them because my connection strictly said I can’t list them. It has to be sold without any internet. This is a challenge for me and so I didn’t want to try them. I also wanted to venture with this line from the Czech Republic called BLOCK AUDIO. Not well known here but I keep hearing it kills gryphon. Heard it from 2 different people. They both told me it will demolish anything else I’ve owned. For now, the magico will most likely be the speaker I go forward with this year. Maybe I upgrade to the m3 Magico at some point if a deal falls in my lap. Scary thing is that remember one thing guys, anytime I buy speakers of that caliber, It’s not easy to sell them later on. This is why I try not to cross a certain threshold with speaker prices. For instance, if I got the neoliths, how many people on this thread can honestly say they can go to the bank and withdraw 50-60k to buy them from me when I’m done ? I’m sure some can but the vast majority can only dream so the point is I kill many buyers once I get to that level. Then for me to sell them once I don’t want them anymore means I’ll have to almost give them away. The neolith presents 2 challenges: 1. Most don’t have 50-60k laying around 2. Those that do will say the speaker is too big. Thats really what’s going through my head. Hell, dealers can’t even sell many neoliths. I believe there’s only about 20 to 30 pairs total in the country. If I dealer can’t move them, then imagine me ? I’m not a business. I don’t take credit cards etc. There’s a point within this game that only dealers can enter and the average end user can’t unless he’s giving it away and well I’m not about to buy that speaker and give it away. If you don’t play this game the right way, you’ll be in the corner asking for money come next week. It’s that devastating when you don’t know what you are doing. |
Pass labs 200.8s are next. I expect them to punish the 601s the way a pit bull would do to a chihuahua. If they fail, they will be gone faster than the time it took them to get here and at that time I’ll hit the brakes and begin to aggressively call every contact I know so they can snatch me a pair of agostinos. |
Also, I’m getting 30a outlets installed this Saturday. No I’m not doing any high end outlets. I’m getting hospital grade outlets and 10 gauge wire from Home Depot. We will see what impressions I have... lastly, the amount of low ballers im getting on my sopras is ridiculous... I had a guy offer me 10k lol. I told him I’d rather use the sopras in my daughters room to play Mickey Mouse songs all day long before I do that. Hell, I could use them as pool speakers to throw parties on the weekends even if the nasty humid weather kills them. I’m not opposed to working out a trade PLUS CASH ON TOP but it has to be something I want. I’m not taking anybody’s 1974 horn speakers lol. |
Hmmm. Go ahead and look at my previous audiogon listings in the past... I had one mx160 for sale. I sold the second one locally. Are you serious that you think I’d lie ? Man with all the gear you all have seen on my listings and I still get doubters ? Lol. Wow man. I can’t believe that at this stage I get people who doubt what I’ve owned. It’s all good though |
Techno dude: I was one of the very first owners of the 4b3 and used it with dynaudio c4 platinums. It was good but it was nowhere near the luxman 900u. I don’t remember the Brystons blowing me away to be honest. It was warm sounding and rolled off. I don’t think the Bryston comes close to the luxmans finesse and detail. That 900u is no joke and this is why I’ve owned it like 4 times. You better be sure of what you’re doing... i suggest you buy your next amp and compare it directly to the 900u. |
Here’s another mx151 with the same room correction https://www.audiogon.com/listings/processors-mcintosh-mx-151-home-theater-processor-2016-11-21-home-... |
Shadorne: I’m not trying to make this a full time job. I already have 2 full time jobs. This is a hobby for me. No money to be made here so I don’t see the need to prove what I own unless you’re buying something from me and I’m not aware ? im not about to begin to post pics here. If I were to do that then I’ll do a YouTube channel where I can at least make gas money for the effort. theres a quote that stuck with me from the movie Batman where the joker says “if you’re good at something, never do it for free”. You’d be suprised how many people my wife has helped with graphic design which is what she does for a living and yet they either still talked behind her back or were ungrateful. I told her to stop doing favors. People love free stuff but you are still a bad person in their eyes even after you help them. ive been told by many that I should do this full time. That I should just begin to build systems for others but you know what ? I’d lose passion for it if this becomes a job and this is why I don’t want to do more than you see here each day. i am happy rolling this way.... post my thoughts and move on to the next component. I hope you can understand my explanation above. I’m not trying to come off rude. Just trying to present you with my feelings. |
Ok the wife is starting to flip about the focals being the living room with their covers on. She wants me to put them in the garage in their boxes but I’m not really wanting to do that because it’s really hot in there. So If anyone has any trades in mind towards my focals then speak up. I might be interested in the following: 1. High caliber amps 2. Speakers of the same caliber that can beat my magico s5 mk2 i am willing to take select trades plus cash on top from me if your trade is worth more or from you if your trade is worth less. I would like a pair of agostino amps, maybe 1.25kw, esoteric grandioso amps, Wilson speakers, etc. Please note: I don’t want old stuff that I can’t get rid of. My goal is to take your trade and either keep it if it’s something high caliber or sell it off right away. I’m not trying to get stuck with any old stuff. Again, I gave only examples above. If you have something that you feel I’d for sure want then reach out to me. |
Bigdesign3: thanks for reading my thread. You are correct about agostino. I will find a pair and take them once they hit the market. It’s just a matter of waiting. I also would truely love to compare the xa200.8 against agostino monos. It would be an awesome shoot out. I would be an honor to have Nelson vs Dan in my living room. |
Techno dude: remember one thing, the reviewer didn’t really any high horsepower amps so he wouldn’t know any better. Lastly, why would magico showcase them with monster 500 watts per channel constellation monos? Remember one thing about this game: ANY SPEAKER YOU HAVE IN YOUR HOME THAT YOU FEEL IS AMAZING WILL ALWAYS SOUND AMAZING UNTIL YOU BRING SOMETHING ELSE TO COMPARE IT TO. This is the only way you’ll know how good or bad something is. That’s the reason why I said the Focal Sopra 3 is awesome for the money. I have the magico to compare them to and they can hold their own in many areas. If I didn’t own magico then I’d be totally happy with the focals for a long time. |
I can’t think of a speaker with what you asked. After owning magico, I can’t see myself going back to warm speakers. The magico tweeter can get a little hot but I also believe it’s incredibly transparent. That said, it is more refined than the focal tweeter. I think of the focal tweeter as the unfinished version of the magico tweeter. Both are beryllium. |