My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


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Showing 50 responses by kren0006

Stay in the love and joy......remember your essence. Be happy and at peace with yourself and others.

 

 

(whattup ricevs........it's Friday!)

That (were it to happen) would kill the non-biased objectivity angle that you now enjoy but at least makes sense as to why the secrecy on disclosure oh these last long months

 

: )

Right, I don't think anyone is complaining and no need to justify a decision like that to anyone here. Simply making an observation.  

Yep, dealers are awesome for imparting knowledge about the brands that they carry. On rare occoasions dealers will offer advice such as a brand they do not carry is superior to those they carry, but that is typically pretty rare for obvious reasons. Nothing wrong with that - they want to sell what they carry, duh. But because they have a financial incentive in providing their advice, the objectivity is lost versus a neutral third party. That’s all.

Doesn't mean it is wrong for anyone to choose to believe the dealer when he says what he carries is the best - that's everyone's individual perogative.  Just do so with eyes open.

Absolutely.  Hobby wouldn't exist without them and I always try to purchase locally at brick and mortar dealers because they make it possible to audition the equipment.  Really glad to see them generally doing much better business since covid and for most part thriving again

Yet some A’gon members who have systems that far exceed WC’s (such as Mike Lavigne (sp?)) insist that analog is superior if cost is no object - see some discussions in the analog section.

The reason WC is resisting analog is convenience (or hassle, depending on how you look at it), not based on sound quality.

But I feel like I predicted a couple years ago that 2022 would be the year WC goes vinyl.......prediction not looking so hot as we approach 2022, ha

Well it’s debatable for sure, but I’m in the camp that says it’s a deficiency of of the amp, not the speakers.
Why?

Because the conventional way to build a system is to buy speakers first, because they are most important and have largest impact on sound quality, relatively speaking, and then fit amplification to the chosen speakers.

As such, the amp can either handle the speakers, or it can’t.
Certainly fair to point out that the Wilson’s are a difficult load, of course, but anyone buying them likely knows that (or should).

simply stated, amps are to be fitted to speakers in most cases, not vice versa - speakers should be foundation of system that everything else built around.  

I wouldn’t slam the amps, but I’d say they are incapable of driving that speaker, not the other way around

With all due respect, that’s like saying the Ferrari is a bad sports car design because all seasons that get strapped on a Camri don’t work on it.

 

But we can disagree, it’s fine 

Sure, you can do it backwards if you want. Just as you can first buy your favorite set of tires and then afterwards search for a car that they’ll fit on. But that’s not a good way to arrive at the best ride

On the contrary, even extremely vague statements can have great value if the observer is finely attuned to the preferences of the one making the vague statements. For example, if WC says he really likes X much better than Y, that is probably enough information for any of us who are attuned to his preferences to give us useful information. I presume that OCD guy has enough content out there where such vague statements could also convey value if one were familiar enough with him.

 

Edit:  I meant to say "non-specific", not "vague".  There is nothing vague about "I prefer X strongly to Y," but it isn't specific as to why

This is gonna sound really dumb and unconvincing but I was actually gonna predict a Magico. Over weekend WC said he wouldn’t be revealing til late in week so I thought I had some time. Oh well, I always support earlier reveals.

I’ll say that the one thing that was giving me pause was the claim of best bass. Didn’t think a cheaper but still non ported Magico would beat the M models, let alone some of the others he’s had.

I am definitely much more of a forum person than YT, but respect WC’s chosen path and wish him success

1 dog year = 7 human years

 

1 WC month of audio ownership = 1.5 years typical audiophile ownership period

 

; )

It’s come up here occasionally top digital sq vs top analog. Interesting comment today from someone whose system makes WC’s look like WC’s makes most of ours look (that’s kinda a joke). Mike Lavigne is who I’m talking about.

anyway, he went from Msb select ii (WC’sdac) to Wadax, which he says is much better. And he has analog systems well into six figures. So he’s been around the block.

Anyway, after I asked him awhile ago whether top digital like Wadax could approach top analog, he still said no. Then today somebody asked him if one had a $100k digital system (dac and server), how much would they need to spend on an analog system (TT, arm, cart, phono pre) to equal it in sq. His answer surprised me, but he should know:

 

“i would say generally a $30k-$40k (new retail price) analog system (tt, arm, cart, phono) will surpass a $100k dac such as the MSB Select II with Taiko Extreme server, or dCS Vivaldi Apex stack....if the analog system is well set up and good analog sourced pressings (but maybe not the very best) are used.”

 

in his Wadax thread under digital if interested

Yeah, zero interest in arguing for the millionth time.

There are exceptions, but in general, imo, price often, not always, but often, can have a correlation to quality in audio. I said a correlation, not a definitive. But anyway, you have your opinion and many with much more experience will disagree, and that’s fine. That’s why you think your Rouge sounds better than Gryphon, after all - and if that works for you that’s cool. : )

Anyway, I just posted the reference to the other thread in case others are interested, as it’s come up here and many have advocated for WC go try vinyl, that’s all. And because his current dac is discussed in that thread and according to ML, surpassed. Fwiw

The sad fact is many people just want to hear themselves "talk," and are looking for acceptance for their ideas, even when everyone (it seems) is telling them they are full of it. I pretty much agree with what Carey said above. Just ignore them, because shouting into the wind will only aggravate and raise blood pressure more, and will be futile anyway. The long-time readers of the thread know who the valuable contributors are, and who the charlatans are.

Of course, each is free to judge for themself who falls into each category.

There might even be some who read the thread purely for the drama, haha. I’m trying to take the high road more than I did in my youth, hehe

HAHAHAHAHA

But then after being proven wrong he’d no longer be able to spew the blather, better to remain in fantasy land without accountability, but yes that would be hilarious.

Have ricevs come too with his $2k tweaked system that destroys the Boulders for good measure.

When the cryins done they can hug it out and ricevs can tell Viber he’s still beautiful and everyone is beautiful and nothing is everything and lamp cord is still prettier and sounds better than an untweaked roll of sausage

 

(not a personal attack on either and especially ricevs can be funny sometimes I don’t mind reading his stuff just the constant downplaying on WC’s stuff to elevate their own fringe views gets old, to say the least)

Not surprised at all. In fact I said one or two years ago in this thread that 2022 would be the year that you would. Since we’re about exactly half way through 2022 I’d say I nailed it perfectly. 
 

Remember for last 3 years WC has been saying any time it got brought up that he was not interested in vinyl, didn’t have the time or patience, etc 

That’s great - glad to hear the Boulders are so good. In all these 400 pages it’s rare that you’ve ever been so determinative like that - they must really be special 

It’s the age old thing of Viber telling WC that dac-direct (or phono direct or whatever) to power amplifier is better than using a good preamp. And for the millionth time WC telling Viber it is a "laughing matter"

Iteration one million and one will probably happen early next week

I thought you’d said you really liked the Fyne Audio speakers and almost bought them. To change the subject.  Yeah cmon let’s all be nice 😊 

I started listening to the first video at work and was thinking I’d go with #1 but then got interrupted and couldn’t finish 

I think it's a couple things. First, the presentations are pretty close - it's kinda hard to tell much difference unless you are really concentrating and not letting your mind wander.  And that's kinda difficult when we have no idea what we're comparing against - it's just a big black hole.  Better to tell us what the two contenders are to keep our interest, but keep it blind so we don't know which is which -- but at least we know what is in play.  imo

Interesting reveal on the power cords. I admit I had a hard time telling the difference. I was inclined to pick the Transparent cord (#1), that was my initial reaction as I posted, but I intended to go back and confirm that initial thought with follow up analysis just never got the chance (too busy with my kids). But I know either way it would have been very close, not a landslide or even an easy choice for me

Sorry, I haven't been paying that close of attention to the battery-powered discussions.

Is it true that Stromtank or Ricevs collection or any battery powered device pretty much gets rid of any advantage of dedicated AC lines?  Or do these solutions sometimes (e.g., at peak power times) still rely on overflow help from the AC?

Like I said, haven't been paying close attention so if this has already been answered, I apologize

Which videos are we supposed to be comparing? The latest one with the qobuz one?

 

Edit: This is easy - Stromtank 2500 destroys Stromtank 1000, which sounds muddled in comparison. 2500 has much blacker backgrounds and better mid and treble clarity, not to mention better bass tautness. It instantly just sounds much cleaner. I mean - not a shocker - what else would you expect? Company would have to be pretty dim to make a much cheaper product in its lineup sound better

Yep, that’s what I did. It was easy for me. easier than the power cord last couple videos. I posted my conclusions as an edit in the post before this. Only had time for one listen - gotta go pick up my daughter from practice

Well I’ll guess we’ll have to wait for WC to tell us exactly how they compare on all the factors based on actually being there.

Go read my post again. I said exactly how the s2500 was better. Among other things It had better clarity and it wasn’t close

Okay, but I think you’re wrong and the 2500 actually lets through more high frequency content with better clarity. Let’s see what WC says - he’s in the room.

This is perhaps analogous to the Rouge trial, where you thought it had better high frequency content and clarity, but others like me and WC said, no, it didn’t, it was inferior there as well as all other areas which of course is nothing to be ashamed of given the price gap there, but it was what it was.

Different preferences, different hearing abilities, different abilities to assess what we hear - why different folks like different things

Haha, sounds like a lot of excuse making, hand waving and revisionist history. Congratulations on realizing your analysis was wrong, Viber. That’s a start. Glad we could help

This is like old WWF where in the end Mr. Amp, Viber and ricevs will form an alliance that nobody likes and everyone roots against    ; )

 

Ricevs = Jimmy Mouth of the South Hart

Viber =  the resident whipping boy for the big stars who just keeps coming back to get whipped, but his persistence finally makes them relent and let him join the team

Mr. Amp = Bobby Heenan

What's going on with the turntable?  Maybe I missed it.  Is it being used or is everything digital for the time being?  When will the turntable be put through paces?  Again, sorry if I missed it amongst all the other chatter - busy

cleeds and clearthink actually have me cheering for Viber in this stupid argument. WTF?  

When one hears ad infinitum that nobody really cares for the opinions they are presenting, yet they persist in repeating the same tired objections, it’s akin to an argument.

 

To be clear, you have every right to post, as does Viber (who often does the same thing), but congrats, you’ve made him seem like the rational defender of the thread, haha (not a rip on Viber - he makes good points occasionally when not pushing his preferences)

Agree. Great that the moderators can help to protect the insecure. That is important.

Good post. It’s a more recent thing that people are trying to tear WC down with stupid, non-supported allegations. Like they have motives for not wanting him to succeed. Maybe like Dave said, maybe they are getting paid by competitors of WC or by manufacturers who do not approve of his reviews or whatever, and wish to sabotage him? Or maybe they’re just pricks? Who knows?

 

The thread has always been subject to (mostly unwanted by nearly all) tangents, but this recent trend of a couple hating on WC by fabricating sh&*t is newer. Oh well - life goes on.....

On video #1, I am still deciding between amp 2 and amp 3.  Amp 1 was the worst.  It had a flat, unrefined presentation. Sounded 2-dimensional. Did not seem to present as much material, veiled and muffled.

Still evaluating between 2 and 3.

I'm gonna give the edge to #2 - better bass control, tighter.

So 2, 3, 1 for me on video #1.