Limniscate: i got hiss as well, but my ps audio p20 helped to lessen that hissing. That said, the hissing you are referring to is apparent only if i have my ear close to the tweeter. It is not like i can hear it from my listening position so we are somewhat nit picking here.
The transformer hum again is pretty normal because this amp uses big transformers. Both of my hegels had a little hum, but again you have to kneel down and put your ear close to the amp. Transformer hum is not abnormal unless you are hearing it from your listening position.
As far as your veritas being dead quite, yes they are because they are class d and it is a different design. I also do not get any hiss from my former class d amps. Class d in general is quieter than class ab.
At least you are not getting humming though the hegels. I had humming through the speakers at one point, but i found out what it was.
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ricred:. The chord dave is great, don’t get me wrong. The truth is that the vast majority of the people who read this would probably be floored by it if they brought it home. What many of you have to remember is that my experience is vast and right now i am playing with ultra high end amps so in my situation the chord dave is good and not OMG ITS THE BEST THING I HAVE HEARD. However, some of you with less expensive sources, speakers, amps, preamps, etc might be floored by what it can do. I actually feel like unpacking the ps audio direct stream and do a shoot out against the chord dave. Lastly, i will be getting the rowland capri s2 preamp next week and will be trying to see if it can beat my luxman 900u preamp. If it does then i am keeping it and the luxman will be sold. Right now, i am on the Jeff Rowland bandwagon.
Oh, and i wanted to add one thing.. i have an arcam avr850 receiver which i unpacked and used with my chord dave dac and man that receiver sounds amazing. I drove my wilson’s hard and that receiver did not break a sweat. i am very impressed by that receiver and it had been YEARS since i had listened to one. It actually made me question the rest of my set up. Very good piece indeed. |
So I am saying reviewers get paid to say certain things which makes the review biased. I am not really leaning one way or the other. I bought the dac to try it and see what it does for me and it seems like it may have elevated things just a little bit. I don’t think it’s worth the extra $ from what I had but what I had may not be what others had. In that case then yes the Dave would me a huge upgrade.
The outlaw is not at the level of a krell amp but if it’s home theater what you’re doing then it’s more than enough. If you’re also doing music then your better off with something else. |
Hi, yes the Arcam is incredible. I actually just bought it because I planned on using it in my future dedicated room and it turns out I didn’t expect it to sound as amazing as it does. I can’t believe how great this thing is. I would say that yes it can be used for both. Is it going to best a Yamaha processor with matching Yamaha amp? That would be an amazing exercise I’d love to take on but I don’t have a home theater set up so I can only give an opinion based on its 2 channel performance. The Arcam 850 really surprised me. I didn’t expect that from a receiver. Far better than anything I heard from anthem recently. |
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Rowland 925s: a bubble of sound that wraps behind your head and listening chair. The closest sound I’ve heard was the luxman 900u. Very similar but Rowland is a luxman 900u combo on steroids. That said, maybe what I’m hearing is the luxman 900u preamp through my 925s so maybe that is why I find it similar. Maybe once I get the Rowland preamp I’ll be able to differentiate better.
I have zero desire to hear anything else. All My amps are dead weight at this point.
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The 925s are indeed marvelous. They have been playing music since last Friday and they will keep going until the end of the month. I don’t plan on turning them off.
I plan on giving the cardas cables about 100 hours to settle since they are demos. I will then switch them out for the wireworld silver 7 and see what happens to the sound. I suspect I will prefer the silver 7s... just a gut feeling. |
Looking into a great opportunity for another set of speakers that came to me just now... stay tuned :) |
@avcr79 : hahah man you’re not supposed to paste things. I’m wanting to keep this thread more objective and less cluttered from how I first was doing things.
So yes, the Rowland is just incredible. I actually want to listen to everything and anything through them. I also found out that the 925s May have only about 100 hours of total use from the previous owner ? This would mean they are still breaking in... |
In case any of you missed it, i was very clear in one of my videos about the type of equipment i will be selecting. That said, i think i will start to do what a big name youtube blogger suggested i do: DO NOT CHEW THINGS FOR YOUR VIEWERS OR THEY WILL NOT WATCH YOUR ENTIRE VIDEO. IF YOU MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM TO FIND WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR THEN THEY WILL SPEND 30 SECONDS ON YOUR VIDEO AND NOT BE FORCED TO WATCH THE VIDEO.
Of course, if you are interested or care to, it is important you watch my videos if you indeed care to know what is coming next or what my thoughts might be about something. I decided to add the videos as supplemental content to what i do here (also because some of you asked that i do), but i won’t be repeating myself on both platforms (it is stupid). If you don’t care to watch the videos then that is fine, but don’t expect me to come back here and answer something i may have already addressed in one of my videos. I am not telling you all that you must watch anything (you don’t really have to).
With that out of the way, and to repeat myself (i said this in one of my videos last week), i am not going to embark on buying ANYTHING that does not have U.S. representation, has zero visibility here or a boutique brand. Now, notice i said "buying". However, if i one of these brands were to put something at my door for me to try then i welcome that. I am not going to turn away the opportunity to see what other companies are doing and not give them a fair shot. i know there are MANY companies out there that we all don’t even mention here that are doing incredible things and it would be great to review them.
Remember, the big name magazines (we all know who they are) don’t really review the " little guys" because there is money in the middle. For instance, interesting fact that most of you all don’t know, did you know that Merril Audio DID NOT send out his amps to stereophile for review because stereophile wanted $ (i can’t disclose what this was) and the manufacturer refused to be part of this corruption ? yea, so i feel like my contribution to you all is to give these smaller brands exposure whenever i can. Everyone deserves a fair shot and if some of these brands are willing to put their product at my door for me to try then how can i see no?
i actually have cables coming in from a company in California who contacted me here and wanted for me to try their product. I will be doing a video on them very soon and i just got ANOTHER integrated that i will be reviewing. Stay tuned!
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Quick update:
jeff Rowland Capri s2 just got connected and has been playing for about 20 min. Great synergy with the 925s but the luxman 900u preamp has it beat. Far more detail with the luxman 900u preamp. More things seem to show up in the music when uSing luxman 900u preamp. Will continue to listen.
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Sounds good. Right now the preamp added the “digital” flavor to things while the luxman kept the system sounding like tubes. Very smooth and detailed. It may have been that I was listening to my luxman preamp through the Rowland’s this entire time. I don’t dare to plug in my ref10 because I suspect it will make my jaw drop and I don’t want to keep both me 925s and the ref10.
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Ok guys, I’ve asked several people about the following 2 set ups. Choose which set up you feel would sound better:
Rowland’s 925s
luxman 900u pre
luxman d08u dac/sacd player
OR
rowland 925s
ps audio direct stream dac
audio research ref 10
where would you put your $???
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Found out the Capri s2 is new. Never used. So far like I said, the luxman 900u sounds INSANE with the 925s. You’d swear it’s tubes. The Capri will have to massively change its tone and soundstage, Smothness etc in order to close the gap. That is a tall task to accomplish by any preamp. I just don’t see it happening but maybe the direction in which it shifts its tonality is better ? Not sure but I can say the luxman just oh man... it is just crazy amazing with the 925s.
as far as the wireworld platinum usb cable, it did NOTHING in my system. I could have bought a cable from radio shack for 99 cents and it would have sounded the same.
the only way I can justify this cable expense is because I’m getting the luxman d08u sacd/dac on Saturday and it will hopefully do a better job there. If it doesn’t then I’ll just close my eyes and think that I bought because I needed an expensive cable just because the rest of my system isn’t cheap but it won’t be because it does anything with my set up. |
Yes I agree with you techno dude... however, a friend of mine said he thinks the ref10 is just a monster and its tube magic and design will make up for the ps audios performance. He fees the gap in performance between preamps is larger than the gap beteeen the ps audio
dac and the luxman. |
Ok so I just plugged in the Ref10 and turned it on after not using it for about 2 weeks. I find the luxman pre STILL winning this race.... hmmmm. Is that shocking to anyone ? Granted, the Ref10 is still cold but i don’t find it better. The soundstage is bigger but it doesn’t have the midrange of the luxman preamp. I’m liking that these Rowland amps make it so easy for me to tell the difference as I change out components.
The Ref10 sounds more far back and the Luxman more closer to you. |
Of course Charles. I agree. But let’s be honest about something, how many of you go into a store and have patience to listen to a set up for weeks ? Most people walk in, listen for 15-20 min max and then go to another room and do the same and then You supposedly know what sounds best? How is what I do any different?
See the thing is most of us go to a store to listen to a speaker and come away with an opinion as to how it sounds but did you stop to think if the components were broken in ? Fully warmed up? Is there synergy with What you are hearing? Did they use the right cables? Too many variables as well to come home and know what sounds best. Do you know how many times I’ve listened to a speaker for 10 minutes and I felt that it was no good but then as I sat down and listened longer I realized it’s actually amazing?
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So the last update I want to give everyone is that the Capri opened up after I unplugged it from the p20 and plugged it into the wall outlet and used a silver 7 wireworld powercord. Not sure but it seems to have gained an extra ounce of detail and finesse. Will keep listening tomorrow.
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Cleeds
If Riaa and myself are saying this, don't take it as gospel but it should make you pump your brakes when it comes to how much you believe what magazines write.
Do you really think Michael Jordan was wearing Hanes underwear when he was advertising for them ? Come on.... Money talks , Bs walks. Haven't we heard this already ? |
Listening to the ref10 Again just now and yes the soundstage is bigger than the luxman or Capri s2. The luxman is narrower but it’s sweeter. At this level nothing is bad to be honest. It’s a matter of preference and flavor. Right now I feel like the luxman preamp is just better a better more engaging piece. The Capri is good but sounds a bit “muffled” or with a curtain in front of it. That said, I wouldn’t know this if I didn’t have the luxman or the ref10 right here. It’s an amazing preamp when you consider its price point.
The luxman is just incredible. Yea I wish it did have the soundstage of the ref10 but the amazing sweetness and smoothness just makes me not even care. |
I just took the cardas out and put back the wireworld world 7 speaker cables and it gave more life to the Rowland components. I suspect cardas cables are no good with Wilson audio. Just too warm sounding and laid back.
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Well well well... I’m doing a shoot out between the chord Dave and the luxman d08u internal dac... hmmm you alll need to stay tuned for this one... |
You can’t use d08u as preamp... only source |
I have zero skin in this game either. i am FAR from being the "hallway monitor" in high school that ratted you out to the principal because you were in the corner smoking a cigarette . If it does not affect me, then i don't pay attention to it. Perhaps i should have kept to myself what i said above because sometimes being too open about things can bite us in the @ss.
i am actually going to use this as an example (or learning lesson) for myself to just shut the hell up and keep things to myself because if the goal in my life is to get from point A to point B then there are things that are better off unsaid EVEN if i feel passionate about a certain subject or if i feel that i should be more transparent with others. Yes, although transparency is important in life in general, there are things that we can't say or do.
Perfect example would be this: HOW MANY OF YOU (YES PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND HERE) have hated your boss/manager and felt that you were right at one time or another, but you knew deep down that it would be better to shut the hell up and carry on because if you wanted to move up the ladder then speaking up WOULD NOT take there?
I am sure we ALL have been there and i am sure some of you actually spoke up about what you believed in and you had consequences that later made you say to yourself " i should have shut the hell up when i had the chance and now i am in this mess". Truth! |
Yes but it depends on the rest of your components. Class a tends to sound clearer and more detailed. |
update:
i tried all 3 preamps with the Rowland’s and chord Dave and here is what my results are in terms of the best preamp with my jeff rowland amps:
1. Luxman 900u: amazing synergy. Incredible smoothness, liquidity, detail, outrageous mids.
2. Ref 10: huge wall to wall soundstage. Good detail, good mids, but gets a bit bright sounding if cranked up too hard. The best overall soundstage but loses to the luxman in terms of sweetness.
3. Rowland Capri s2: good synergy, detail, bass is awesome, amazing volume response. It gives you a good idea of the potential of the 925s but fails to fully deliver it. It also sounds as if there’s a curtain in front of music at times. For the money, this is one hell of a preamp.
Overall, you can see that the luxman steals this show. Why ? Well it’s got much more synergy with my speakers and amps. If I still had my salon 2s, I wouldn’t be shocked if I’d still choose the ref10 but it’s a matter of system synergy. If I go back to Martin Logan Renaissance then maybe the ref10 goes up to the top. Who knows.
As far as sources, the luxman d08u is just as detailed, clear and amazing sounding as the chord Dave plus it adds a world class sacd player. Its sound quality is more analog which adds warmth to the music that sometimes is needed. If you want a clear, analog like source with a reference sacd player then the luxman d08u is it.
I select the chord Dave for me for 2 reasons:
1. It can be used as a preamp in I ever wanted to use it.
2. Because it can be used as a preamp, it has far more volume than any other source I’ve owned.
3. My Wilson speakers are a tad warm sounding so the added “brightness” the chord Dave has actually works for me. That said, if I had forward sounding speakers like focals, paradigm personas, klipsch horns etc then the luxman is what you need.
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here is the new link: https://youtu.be/H1Pk8MllGawTry to subscribe to the channel so that you get notifications on your phone each time i upload a new video. |
Coming in the fall. They are months behind. The brief moment I had one loaned to me, i was extremely impressed. |
OK switching gears guys and this is something i am actually trying to explain to myself. This Pass Labs INT250 sounds DAMN GOOD with my Wilson DAW and DCS Vivaldi. I am quite shocked actually at the synergy i am hearing and the HUUUUGE soundstage that this integrated has. This is a preliminary feeling, but this pass integrated and Wilson Sasha DAW have tremendous synergy which has stunned me and totally made me regroup my thoughts about system matching.
Stay tuned for more of my thoughts once i use the Odin 1 on the integrated.
Ps. i am hearing an insane amount of information and tremendous imaging not easily heard before. It feels as if there is another 5% of more information coming through. |
@tjassoc
Noted. i appreciate your last post and respect your point of view. This is why i closed my statement with me using this as the perfect example to learn NOT TO TALK about things that will not help me get from point A to point B. The only bad thing about that is that there will always be people who will say: "well IF you don't speak the reality of things then you are not being truthful to those of us who follow you" and that is also a very valid statement.
@viber6:
i will be talking about what i think on the Denali Shunyata vs Audioquest Niagara 5000 on my next video.
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Esoteric k1 just hit my door... been playing music for about one hour and this is something really magical... I’ll give my thoughts later |
alright ladies and gentleman,
i have sold my ref10, hegel h30 amps so my next amp/preamp will be shipping on monday. Gryphon, here we go..... :) |
No. The luxman 900u pre with Rowland is amazing. Far better. However the Rowland Capri sounds good but a different sound. Not as tube like |
we shall see what this is all about... It will take ONE HELL of a combination to best my rowland set up. Right now, it is at the top of everything i have owned. I love everything and yes i could nit pick and say things that i wish it did do, but there is no real reason for that. Nothing is really perfect. The rowland capri s2 is surprisingly good with the 925s. We will what Gryphon has. :) |
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Hi guys,
what you all need to remember is that I praised the ref10 with my salon 2s and quite frankly if I still had those speakers, I’d still have the ref10. That said, I don’t feel Wilson audio sounds the best when using tube preamps. I feel it might sound good if it was a full tube set up but not with tube preamp and solid state amp. This makes sense because Wilson is displayed quite often with dan Agostino components.
I am moving forward and have not decided 100% if I want to sell my luxman preamp. Why ? Because I will be trying more speakers at some point and having different components on hand will be fun to try.
Speaking of speakers, anyone tried Magnepan 20.7? I am contemplating a pair but I don’t know just yet... I heard a pair like 2 years ago at a dealer and I thought they sounded dull. That said, the components used weren’t at the level of what I own so may be thats why ?
I am really really getting an itch to try those even though I was told to go for the 30.7 but those are just too big for my room.
Anyone care to give me their feedback on them? Reviews are stellar but you all know how I feel about them... I rather ask you all here what your opinion is. Are they like electrostatics? Small sweet spot? Difficult to place? What do they do best ? What are their weaknesses other than not enough oomph? Looking forward to all your comments.
Lastly, I can’t say what gryphon piece or pieces are coming to me until they are here. I know gryphon monitors my thread and reads it. They keep tight control of their equipment which is actually a great thing. I want to only disclose what I got once it’s at my door. Dealers DO NOT give discounts on new gryphon product so don’t even try... I’ve tried and tried lol and you all know I TRY and I failed. If you want gryphon, prepare to pay full price unless you buy from Europe. That is like the Louie Vuitton brand. When did you ever see any on sale in their store? Never... just doesn’t happen
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Or not. Maybe it just works well with my synergistic Research cables |
That’s my fear. I need to make sure I don’t go backwards. The Wilsons aren’t going anywhere unless a better speaker walks through my living room.
Ive thought of focal maestros, magico s5, etc. Nothing is concrete until I feel confident about the switch. To be honest the only speaker I’d like to bring back is the 15a or the clx. Those I know for a fact have a place in my heart.
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I just sat down after not listening to music for about 4 days and the luxman 900u with Rowland 925s is just insane. Buttery smooth, clean, detailed, glorious mids, nice soundstage, no fatigue. If I didn’t have the Rowland, one would think this is a Luxman set up because the Rowland amps transfer the sound signature of the Luxman preamp but in a bigger way than the single 900u amp. |
And then you will get another Amplifier Introduction in June...it is being built as i type this... |
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Don’t take that "250" units presold as an indication of the success of the product. It hasn’t established itself the way the luxman 900u or momentum stuff has. It’s just a new product at this time...nothing else...
Nothing is successful until there is enough product out in the field and has been validated by its performance. This doesn’t mean it is not a good product but don’t be fooled by the "250" units. I’m sure there are many other companies that probably had more items presold and they ended up being failures.
Maybe I end up buying one but I need to let everyone have their fun with it before I come in and do my analysis here. That Integrated has tremendous competition and it needs to deliver the goods or the used market will end up getting flooded with it. |
The decibel meter is reading peaks of 107 decibels right now. I am 8 feet away from the speakers. zero compression, zero distortion, zero shoutiness, zero anything. Impressive how dynamic the wilson audio speaker is. Massive slam, punch that knocks you in your chest cavity, and the rowlands are almost winking at me asking for more volume... |
So far, it is going to be difficult to let go of my Wilson Sasha 2s. i went to listen to a few different speakers today which included Magnepan, Kef, focals and i STILL prefer my sasha 2s over those. I was contemplating to bring a second pair of speakers to battle it out with my Wilsons and i just DO NOT SEE any speaker close in price to mine that i have the desire to purchase. I thought focal sopra 3s, focal scala, kef blade 2s, magnepan 20.7 and they did not improve on what i currently have. Everything was either worse or too close. i realize i would have to spend about -10k MORE dollars more in order to begin to hear any sort of improvement over my Wilson's.
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Mike: the Sopra 3 are a good detailed speaker. They remind me a lot of the revel salon 2s in many ways. They don’t have the big soundstage depth that the Wilson Sasha’s have. They have balanced sound with pretty much just about everything you could ask given their price point. I think they are the best bang for the buck from focal if you ask me.
Guido: the Rowland’s sound incredible and I was using the Rowland Capri preamp! I cranked it up very loud and to my surprise they never felt compressed, or shouty. The sound just grew more and more and you almost don’t realize that it’s louder.
Bukirob: the 15a renaissance is an outstanding speaker when matched with audio research and pass labs. You don’t even have to listen to this combo. I can vouch for it. Anything with tubes will sound spectacular on Electrostatics.
Tonight: I plan on listening to the Rowland’s connected to the p20 only to see what happens to the sound. I also want to go back to cardas speaker cables and see what I hear aftern using wireworld silver 7 for the last 2 weeks.
Lastly, I will be getting my gryphon components next Wednesday so next week will be special !!
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Ok based on used prices, here it is:
15k: pass labs 350.8/xp30
20k: Luxman 900u combo
25k: pass labs xp30/xa200.5s
30k: ref10/h30s monos
35k: ref10/ pass labs xa160.8
40k: Belcanto black system
40k+: rowland 925/luxman 900u preamp
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Breaking news: Dave Wilson died last night... CEO and founder of Wilson audio.
We lose one of the great American minds in the speaker industry.
73 years old, bone cancer. |
My birthday is coming up. Today I’m getting this feeling in my chest that is telling me it’s time to begin to put a deal together and bring home the Neoliths.... am I going nuts ? Neoliths, Rowland 925s, chord Dave dac, Rowland Corus s2, cardas clear beyond cabling ? Is this where I am headed ?
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