2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by speedbump6

speedbump6
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Saw some Mark levinson 536s to maybe pair with the ayre? I’m trying to hold out a bit to see what else I see. I already have bryston 14b for the tekton Ulferberhts, and like trying different flavors so don’t want to duplicate anything. Still trying to decide on a dac also, but have a few preferences which do narrow the choices somewhat
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Looks similar to what I went through years ago with antique fishing reels. Had the largest collection in the world at one point until the crash in 2008 put an end to the fun. after getting married shortly after that, doubt she would have agreed with my hobby costs, lol. Having a passion and the things you learn along the way are so much fun. 
speedbump6
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I believe I saw that at one point he did have solution, some time back, don’t remeber what model. Or maybe he was commenting that something he had at the time was better than solution, and assumed he knew from experience of having had it
speedbump6
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Too bad in most cases our significant others don’t share our level of passion with our hobbies. That would be something special if they did. Would be pretty cool to have someone to bounce thoughts off of without being asked how much it costs.  
speedbump6
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And the name is Stephen, only fair to share since we know yours. 
speedbump6
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Tecno, it’s too bad he can’t pass on some of the Memphistos clarity 
to you. Seems like you might be using lamp cord for wiring over there. The processor in the line stage seems a bit wonky also. All the clarity on this thread seems to shine a light on those issues, just like the mephisto is doing on some components that can’t match it. 
speedbump6
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Wow, crickets.
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No new video yet
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mostly for the home theater system which I have Tekton Ulferberhts for as mains. Those are claimed to be giant killers, unfortunately I won’t be able to find out until November. Right now I guess I’m just collecting gear until I can get back into my home and set everything up. 
speedbump6
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I can’t imagine anything topping the Vivaldi and upsampler combo, so will be intresting. Not sure we’ve heard your take on the Dag combo yet. You’re going to have to up the pace of the videos to keep up with the pace of new equipment, lol, I just purchased a pair of the Rel model 25 subs, and have an eye on the Praadigm Sub2. Was one on Audiogon, but he’s pulled the listing, was a strange deal, I did make a couple of offers. Thinking of talking to the local dealer and seeing if there’s a deal to be had. Not even sure where I’d use them all, was planning on putting the rels in the theater room with the svs pb16s For four total. Or maybe add to the sashas, and add the paradigm to the theater room. 
speedbump6
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I’m not sure how you have time to work, etc with just what you’ve spent on time on the audio end of things. Must be like the energizer bunny. 
speedbump6
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Jay, I know what you’re saying about people. Had the same guy try to rob my store today for the third time in a month. Fortunately this time I saw him coming and managed to keep him outside the store, he stole my car last time, had the key still, I just got the car back two days ago, and now my car has bullet holes in it, and unfortunately he did get away, but left his cell phone. the cops managed to show up just after that was over and sat and watched him speed right past the store after he stole another car and hit yet another car leaving. There’s always someone looking to take advantage of the rest of us. It’s sad, but a fact of life. I’ve had people I thought I knew take tens of thousands to build a computer system and disappear. For now, I look over my shoulder until this guy is caught, but he will have to live with( or die from) the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life. 
speedbump6
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I don’t know enough about who uses what equipment to record with for their videos, but I do know jay said he uses his phone. I know I’ve heard way better on other videos, but that’s guys doing it for a living. I do have problems telling much on some of the videos, other than direct differences between some of the matchups. On some of the videos I’ve heard better from a 1980s fm radio, lol. Some of the videos it’s much clearer, not sure what makes the difference if using the same device for all. Jays voice is always clear, and I’m guessing that the volume of the music is blowing out the phones microphones capabilities. I might ask some of the youtubers that I help sponsor through Patreon what equipment they are using if I ever want make one of my system
speedbump6
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He tends to buy new. Keep in mind the idea about synergy. maybe the Boulder amp to match the preamp, and then do a comparo vs the Mephisto? It’s like Christmas every week here, and Jay is buying all the gifts, lol. 
speedbump6
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Different people describe things in their own words, and I think we have more than enough history to have a decent understanding of Jays descriptions. It should be fairly easy to follow what someone means without asking them to word it the same way we might have ourselves. If still in doubt, ask for clarification. I’m sure most are happy to respond. I would agree that there are very few people who have a more thorough first hand knowledge of high end audio products then Jay, other than some professional reviewers maybe. Now, let’s get back to discussing the toys. 
speedbump6
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I personally have little experience with tube amps. I have recently tried I to expand my horizons by dipping into them. I went to a local dealer with the intention of listening to and purchasing a Prima Luna Evo 400. I was expecting to hear that mello, 3d and some sort of magic sound. I was greatly dissapointed. I really didn’t hear anything g special at all, just sound, and nothing I couldn’t have gotten from an under 1k Marantz, maybe not even as good as that. They carried Octave as well. So I listed to a V70. Ehhh, nothing really great either, though it did have something different. Finally they said they had a McIntosh hybrid( never thought I’d consider McIntosh). The MC352. Wow. Huge difference. Someone took the sheet and the bedspeard off the speakers. Cleaner, clearer, just more of everything. More bass, more highs, more mids, and super clean and detailed. I play the guitar, so I know what a tube amp sounds like vs solid state with those. At no point did any of these give me a tube like sound, unless tube equates to less, which I cannot believe based on what others have said. Another client came in who wanted to hear a specific speaker, so we tried amps for me, and speakers for him. Strange thing is he felt the Prima Luna was something special. This is a case of we are both listening to the exact same thing at the exact same time, and have welding different experiences with what we heard. I guess one mans whipped cream is another mans whisky sour, lol. I did end up purchasing the mcintosh. 
speedbump6
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So what you’re saying is, none of us are a good candidate to star in a Jackass reboot? 
speedbump6
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So does any luxury brand. LV purses, Rolex watches, Armani suits. If enough people didn’t think it was worth what they charge, they wouldn’t be in business. Obviously not everyone agrees with the idea that they charge too much.
speedbump6
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Beat, winner, favorite, whichever terminology used dosnt matter, it’s all used to describe the same thing. Even consumer reports has winners and losers, but on criteria they selected. At least here we each get to select and discuss the criteria. And it can be different for each of us.  No sense in this forum or the videos otherwise. We are all trying to pick the “winner” to spend our money on based on many different criteria, price, value, color even. Without the discussions happening, we’d all have a lot less info to help us decide these things. I may Or may not buy any of why I see discussed, but the discussion itself might help me decide on what criteria is important to me in a buying decision. 
speedbump6
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The next level will come. No amps, no preamps, just a source directly wired to your brain. 
speedbump6
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Hedwig, just bought the Soulution based on your say so. So it it dosnt work out, were going to have some words, lol. I’m sure I’ll be very happy. Now time to concentrate on a DAC. 
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viber, igreatly depends on the quality of the brain matter, lol. As we age I’m sure that tends to degrade. Jay, I’m so sad. I was hoping the Vivaldi’s new home was going to be my home. I just now brightened up. A few days ago was trying to make an offer on a Paradigm sub 2. He was asking much more than the history showed and didn’t even respond to my second offer, and tried asking what it would take, after which he removed the listing and said he would contact me when he decided to put it back up again, after some research I saw he offered the exact same one two years ago and pulled it back then also. Then I saw a fellow listed two of them and we worked out a deal where I got both for not much more than what the first one had been asking. I love getting new toys. I’m sure that’s part of the draw to trying all these amps, preamps, etc, it’s the adrenaline rush of something new to play with. 
speedbump6
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And to me, I heard the opposite. The dag seemed to have more detail and bite, and the gryphon was smoothing things out more, most apparent in the bass regen. It’s bass seemed much less defined, with thr dag I could hear different levels of bass and mid bass, well defined individual notes that were more like one sound with the gryphon. The gryphon had something going on in the mids that I can’t quite define which sounded good, though as most levels I still felt the dag had more detail. It also felt more open and as much as one can tell from YouTube recorded on a phone, more of a stage. 
speedbump6
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I just added another one to my stable today, picked up a pair of bw 800d3s. They had the Saha daw there too, so got to hear them side side
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They were using mac tube preamp and mac ss amps. Didn’t pay attention to the specific models. We spent more time talking than listening, so didn’t get time to tell a lot of details. The Sasha was more dynamic, bigger soundstage. Was suprised the bass wasnt as well defined as the BWs. I wish I had spent more time listening, but first time I have been to this dealer so we talked a lot about what I already had, then about some of the equipment they carried. I had a number of questions myself about some of the products, and only had a few hours left after I closed my store at 2. The short time I did get to spend I’d say I preferred the sound in this case, of the bws. 
speedbump6
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They were using mac tube preamp and mac ss amps. Didn’t pay attention to the specific models. We spent more time talking than listening, so didn’t get time to tell a lot of details. The Sasha was more dynamic, bigger soundstage. Was suprised the bass wasnt as well defined as the BWs. I wish I had spent more time listening, but first time I have been to this dealer so we talked a lot about what I already had, then about some of the equipment they carried. I had a number of questions myself about some of the products, and only had a few hours left after I closed my store at 2. The short time I did get to spend I’d say I preferred the sound in this case, of the bws. I’m getting back into audio again after a number of years absence. My old systems were my favorite, the Vandersteen 3A mains, Vandy subs a new surrounds and theta digital Casblanca and dreadnaught. I also had a higher end Martin Logan, forget the models, with their descent sub. I found that one to be a bit dry, but very good for clarity. Also had the Anthony Gallo 3.0, which was ok, but nothing special to me. The Vandys were really something special, and I had listened to the bw, von schweikert, Linn, krell, and many more back then, I believe around 2004-2007 time frames. I still havnt had the ability to hear my tekton ulfers either. Have lots of toys but won’t get to play with them for a while yet
speedbump6
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Techno, is there a point to that comment? I’m pretty sure everyone here can do the math, lol. Despite your views, class D isn’t ready to take on something like the Mephisto. I’m sure eventually it will get there. Personally I don’t care A,B,D or Z. All that matters is the result. If I can get mephisto sound for far less, I’m all for that. No one wants to pay more if they don’t have to. I can see class D doing well in multi channel home theaters also. My Denon 8500 is being replaced for two reasons, one it dosnt have enough channels, and two, with all channels driven it’s not enough power. It will take me three amps in total with a 16 channel processor to replace it. It could be done easier and for less with class D depending on budget and quality of sound desired. Not the route I went this time, but who knows what may be in a few years. 
speedbump6
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I like bass, as long as it’s very good bass. I think I’ve decided to use the ReL 25s I got with the Sashas in my setup
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Greyhound, I’m definitely a boomer. If only I could turn back the hands of time to be a millennial 
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I am trying to decide on a Dac myself. Not wanting to spend Vivaldi kind of money unless I find a deal on a used one. But I know I’d prefer one I can use with an app on my iPad for tidal, so would like mqa. As with anyone I’d like to spend less, especially if there is one that outperforms for its price,  but willing to spend more if the difference is worthwhile. I’ve found very few that do MQA and I’m still a bit muddy on understanding which ones have the ability to play using an iPad app. Most seem to require using a roon server, which I have zero desire for at this point. Tried roon on my computer and it was just more complicated than my level of patience allowed for. I admit my level of patience is low if it dosnt work right off the bat
speedbump6
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Been reading about the Cherry line of  amps, seems to be some pretty good comments on those. Specifically the Megachino mkii sounds like you can add a second set of rails for more capacitors also. One of the things that was noticed was even at lower volumes, not that I play at lower volumes often, that you get great dynamic range still. I know with many products it’s lower, but also more muted, you lose some of the dynamics, and it’s softer. 
speedbump6
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Ive just got to figure out which speakers to use with which system. Ayer kxr twenty and Soulution, or krel Evo 402e with krel 202 preamp. One with bw 800d3 and one with Wilson Sasha daws
speedbump6
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Alex, I believe he said he is using his galaxy phone to record the videos with. 
speedbump6
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Good source, that’s always the problem. In reality none of those are cheap for the average person. Value for the money the choice is obvious. But many audiophile can never be satisfied, and need/ want the next fix. What if? They want better, or sometimes it’s just different. What would be really intresting, and I have no idea if this could be done. I play the guitar and kemper makes  an amp, or even what we would call a preamp, and you buy a separate amp, but it’s a modeler. With guitar amps, tube model are hands down superior to solid state. The kemper is digital and solid state. You can download files of modeled guitar amps, and speaker cabinets. Could this be done in Hi-Fi? Model preamps, amps, speakers, who knows, dacs? I don’t know. There were always naysayers about modelers,and the early ones really wernt what the current product are, but they’ve done blind tests, where it was proven that artists could not tell the difference. There are some subtle ways if you train yourself, because of how it loads the speakers, but even knowing this, no one could tell on a consistent basis to say it wasn’t the same  as a 50/50 guess. Files of amps were mostly free and made by other players who owned the real thing to record, and shared on sites. In this case for about 4k , you could have any product that someone had “ modeled”, anytime you wished. My, how that would change the discussion.
speedbump6
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Jay, a quick way to monetize is to get yourself on Patreon. Subscribers can then chose different levels of support. In many cases the patreon offers something extra depending on the level of support. Many will list the Patreon supporters, some offer earlier views of videos, or additional video with more details, etc. 
speedbump6
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Kren, I left work when I saw the video because I knew it must have been Friday, lol
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Denon, I believe the accuphase had 400 hours on it from what was said in the video
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Ok, so now do I contact a mod about why a post was removed. Nothing negative about anyone at all, so I’m confused and cannot find a method to ask the question.
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4425, I just got in two sets of the wels and redwoods
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Have you tried the SR sx power cord? Haven’t seen any SR mentioned, I’ve gone to a full SR setup, but no idea how that might compare 
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So what you’re saying is, you’re not going to play 28,000 different songs to make everyone happy? What a shame. Lol. You would think we don’t pay for your time. Oh wait a minute....never mind
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Just realized that the last video has disappeared. Music rights issue again?
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Ricevs that Mephisto sounds like my kind of amp. May have to keep my eyes open for one on the used market
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If we buy all the cables, or components he’s blind testing, then we too can be assured that we can replicate what we hear, lol
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Viber, I am not sure that you will find many consistencies because everyone likes something different. What may be obvious to you, sounds different to someone else. 
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It’s good to have on constant in the mix too, or how do you know if an amp, etc is really an improvement or not, could be the speakers after a recent change. If anything I might leave one set as the standard theat  g gets tested with for comparisons, then have another set that could change, and also different amps play better with some speakers than others, so that could show something about that. Once I’m able to get set up, I’ll have the Shashas, the 800D3s and the Tekton Ulferberhts so that should give me some nice variance and options to play around with. Won’t be able to change the gear like you do though as that would be a huge issue with the wife, and I don’t have the same agreement with mine on that subject. 
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Since he already has a rating for his personal rating of the amp, I’m not sure what makes the most sense. I don’t see rewarding an amp for being more sweet than neutral. I can see taking away from one that’s clinical or analytical. I always thought the idea was to be as neutral as possible and pas through what the recording has to give. Sweetness is a coloration, as are warm and cold. I need to go back and listen to all the categories again. To me I’d have detail, stage, and there’s different parts of stage. Width, height, front to back, and then in between. Also where does it place you, the listener in that stage. Where is the stage in relation to the speakers. Should that be all one category? Should it be Seperated into parts so we can see where it is for each of those? I think the goal for most builders is neutral, not sweet. If you have a category for how nuetral it is , how do you rate that? Perfect 10 for prefect nuetral? Deducted for sweeter or drier? I’d rather hear sweet than dry, so then deduct twice the points the more into dry you go? If there’s a rating for his personal rating on the amp, then maybe the rest of the ratings should be based more on standards most think of in the industry in relation to the sweet question? I’m sure there’s many things I havnt thought of that could be brought up, those are just some that come to mind as I was thinking. 
speedbump6
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Jmeyers, the value just dropped a cool mil, lol
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Techno, jay did a shootout a while back of the focal vs the Shasha daws. The daws won that one, and I know I felt it was the better in that contest. So we have recently been there and done that, if you look back a few months, you will find it in his videos. See what you think about the comparison. The Alexia’s would only make the disparity even greater I believe. 
speedbump6
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I’m not understanding what they’re doing with the grounding part. I have and will be expanding on, synergistic research cables and will be using their active grounding block. But grounding an isolation stand to itself, I’m. It understanding why, what the problem is that it’s supposed to be solving. Assuming there’s no conductivity between the component and the shelf, where is this electrical single coming from that needs to be grounded, and if you’re already using a ground block with another product, that would resolve the issue of there was conductivity. Also a grounding block surrounded by noise isolation g materials? How is the noise affecting what a grounding block does? Not trying to be negative, just trying to understand what the problem is it’s resolving, and why what is doing resolves it. 
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