hi guys,
some of you have been asking me to bring some more affordable amplifiers to review. With that said, i am going to auditioning the 3k dollar offering from Adcom. i want to give a shout out to Larry from High End Palace for taking time out to come to my home today and making this happen. |
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hi guys,
i have a nice shootout here with Larry from High End Palace and i need to mention a couple of things:
1. the amplifier was dead cold with only about 10 hours of total use
2. My hegel h30s have been on for about 3 weeks non stop and so is my moon audio.
That said, the amplifier we used was a single gfa 585se.
We started by trying to tax the amplifier and trying to see if we could get it to clip or shut off and it never did. I think we probably listened at levels of close to 100 dbs and the amp was solid and composed.
Here are a few quick notes:
1. Excellent power with good slam
2. i heard great bottom end which reminded me ALOT OF THE HEGEL’s bottom end.
3. Good highs with good transparency
4. Soundstage was narrower than the hegel, but that is expected when you consider the price discrepancy.
The only cons i can recall were that of course the soundstage was not as huge as with my hegels . That is expected because the hegels have crazy amounts of power and current on demand. I will say that there were times that i felt like of course the hegels were superior, but the adcom 585 gives you SO MUCH for VERY LITTLE that you question if it is indeed worth the extra cash for the hegels? That is subjective and no i don’t think the hegels are 5 times better than the adcom. The one thing i told Larry was that i would love to hear these amps in mono mode in order to make a more fair comparison. I suspect if i use them in mono mode, things could get very interesting.
Lastly, i felt that the construction was excellent. i did not see anything at all on the amp that made me feel it was cheap. Actually, if i am being honest, the hegel h30s look cheaper than the adcom 585.
I would totally love to just have a pair here and leave them on for about 1 week and try again. I bet things would be much closer. What is mind boggling is the price point of those 585s versus the hegel h30. If you all heard both together in the same system, i bet most of you would stay with the adcom simply because of how much you get for the money. It was indeed a nice reminder of the law of diminishing returns.
I highly recommend that adcom 585 for most of you out there. Again, i pushed it as hard as i could with my wilson to try to tax it and make it shut off and i failed doing it. I could not make it break a sweat. Very good amplifier. |
I just removed transparent opus speaker cables and added Gryphon vanta speaker cables and things are QUITE INTERESTING to say the least... Oh boy...stay tuned for the next video.
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Ok guys,
The black system has left my home. I loved everything about it, but i can't hang on to 2 different systems. I want to continue using my ref10 going forward and will continue to review more amps.
Lastly, i am excited to say that next week i should have my next pair of amps which will be the first time i have ever owned this particular brand.
They should be amazing, but for the money i am paying for them, they better be magical and pour me a drink :) |
Hi,
i can’t attach pictures here. Audiogon doesn’t support images on forums.
As far as the adcom, it’s a great amp for the money. Unfortunately it’s gone. It was just for me to audition it in my home for an afternoon.
I would say the adcom was slightly warm sounding but I don’t know if it would have become detailed as it warmed up for a day?
Either way that’s a great amp and feels of the same build quality of a pass labs amp.
As far as low volume listening, nothing has sounded better for me than the black system. It remains king at low volume. |
It’s been here and gone. Great preamp but I think the luxman preamp is more tube like. |
Ok guys,
I’ve just purchased a pair of theta digital Prometheus monoblocks. They have a class a rating on Stereophile magazine and I’m about to find out why. They are now in my home so get ready because I’m going to compare these amps vs the hegels. :)
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Well I just plugged them in. They have been off for weeks. They don’t have any detail or sparkle. They sound warm when compared to mu hegels. Initially speaking without warm up time, I would say I don’t really like them. Not even close to the black system but maybe they need a few days to sound best. For now they are inferior to all my current amps.
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The amps aren’t new. They are about 2 years old. They shouldn’t need break in time. |
My Theta amps are not new... they are a few years old so they should be ready hopefully after a day of playing music.
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My amps have been plugged in since last night. I plan to do more listening this evening and then do a shoot out between the hegels and theta digital on Friday night.
Time will tell if these amps will come alive and give me more than what I heard last night. |
Ive read the specs on the jc5 but it honestly doesn’t really make me feel that it would be any different than the jc1s I’ve owned. If anything, it’s just a cheaper alternative to buying jc1. |
@goodsource.
I'm going to use them on my amps going forward. The odin 1 PCs will need to fight against my dragon PCs to stay being used on my dac or sources.
@kren:
They are 3 dragon high current Powercords. I am using 2 on mephisto and today I will use the third on the dac. I would love to use another one on the clock but I am not sure I am ready for it yet. My goal will be to use one odin PCs on the dac and then compare against one dragon on the dac. I know what odin does for sources and it is indeed incredible. However, for amps , the dragon is king of the hill. I think you said you loved the coliseum right? I believe the mephisto will now shock you if you hear it. It is a coloseum on steroids now. Remember I was honest and said that I used a dragon pc on it the entire time so I'm finally replicating things with the mephisto. |
Just bought a chord Dave dac and I went waaaaaaay back in time and bought an anthem p5 amp which I just started to listen to today.
Next week I am receiving my whole new set up which is the mistery monoblocks plus the matching preamp and this is why I have bought a better dac than my ps audio snd lumin s1.
Stay tuned... |
i have been told the essence is NOT 50 watts per channel. I was told it is immensely underrated by Gryphon. Some say it is AT LEAST 90-100 watts per channel.
One thing you all need to remember, and i have said it MANY MANY TIMES, NOT ALL WATTS ARE CREATED EQUAL.
For example:
Accuphase E800: 50 watts class A
Luxman 509x mk2: 30 watts class A
Luxman murders the accuphase in terms of power and control. The accuphase sounded anemic, lacked balls, drive, muscle, cojones, etc. You all need to stop being too "concerned" with power figures when these power figures are from top amplifier manufacturers such as Gryphon. I can probably bet money that the essence stereo can drive a ton of speakers out there without a problem. However, if you are sitting 27 feet away, and you are almost deaf then you might want to buy something more powerful. @ron17...You listen at 75db so ummmm.... you should be the last person to worry about the power figures of the essence Ron.
I am trying hard as hell to bring an Essence home, but it is being quite protected and not on display.
If it makes ANYONE HERE feel better, i bought Gryphon blind folded and have never LOOKED BACK. I wish i could buy a pair of Mephisto monos and then close this thread so i can focus on preamps maybe?
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No pass labs xa25. I decided to pass on it.
For now, I got 8 amplifiers I’m playing with. I need to start selling some |
Nobody loans me a thing. The only person has been Larry. I’ve never ever had anyone loan me an amp. Right now things will come to a hault until I can make space for the mistery Monos arriving next week.
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I totally get it. I just have far too many amps and I need at least to sell one before I bring another one.
That said, I will be updating my thoughts on the Prometheus now that they’ve been playing for days. Things got interesting
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Theta digital comments coming soon.. also the p5 amp :) |
hi guys, i don't have plans to bring out the brystons for now. I need to first move out a few things before i do that.
That said, here is an update on the Theta Digital Prometheus:
I originally had started to give a quick update on these amps when i first plugged them in. i found them dull, lifeless, zero musicality. i really thought they were terrible in all areas and not a match with my wilsons. I let the amps play for a few days and then i feel like they started to come around:
1. Detail: More sparkle, more highs and less dullness
2. Mids: i felt that the mids also gained space and became more pronounced.
3. Bass: Not really much changed. The bass has always been there since day one. Zero boominess or looseness in the bass.
Overall, i found the theta mono blocks good all around amps. Nothing is really lacking, but also nothing jumps at you. For instance, hegel has massive bass control and that jumps at you. I also found that the theta digital monos sounded more detailed if i used my lumin s1 as my source rather than my ref10. Again, not a bad amplifier by any means and it is a good offering given its price point. Is it better than the hegel h30 or the simaudio 860a? That depends on the speakers. I can see the theta prometheus sounding amazing with forward sounding speakers like focals, klipsch palladiums, b&w. I think of it more like a classe amplifier.
It is neither better or worse than my amps. It is about synergy which is why i did not like it too much with the ref10. I thought using the dac or the luxman made the theta sound more upbeat. |
With that said, i had someone come out yesterday to hear my sasha 2s He had the sasha 1s and he thought my sasha 2s lacked sparkle or more top end. We went through all amps i have here and towards the end we took out the ref10 out of the mix and we connected the lumin s1 and he felt as if the speakers gained more high frequencies, but losing soundstage, but it was more to his liking than using the ref10.
The bottom line here is that system synergy is one important element that can’t be overlooked. I feel as if the ref10 does not shine with my wilsons as much as it did with my salons. That is a fact, but we shall see how my next set of amps do. |
I am trying to understand why they would more break in since they are a couple of years old... |
I will watch tv with the thetas and use them for everything I can think of and see if they actually morph. Right now they are better but not to the level of the hegels. |
I will continue with the class d break in. My only issue is that it really is painful to have to wait weeks for something to sound good again after you unplugged for a day. |
Well guys,
the theta Prometheus have been here for about 4 days, plugged in, music here and there and they have improved for sure. They run cool, no hissing no hiccups no nothing. That said, I think this is an amp that will be amazing for those who do lots of home theater as well because it doesn’t draw a lot of power. I like the overall balance presented. The used street value makes it an incredible deal. However, let’s remember that each amp has limitations. I wish I could have the simaudios detail and mids, the muscular tone of the Hegel h30, Bass from the Hegel, and soundstage of the black system. That would be a tough act to beat. |
Ok boys and girls, finally i feel good about revealing my next set of amps which are now traveling to me. These are BY FAR the most expensive amps I’ve bought followed by the xs150 pass labs. It will be an expensive exercise, but we will see..
Soooo, my next set of toys are the Jeff Rowland 925s Monos. :)
we will see how much is the law of deminishing returns when you go to the big leagues :)
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Yep patience is not a virtue of mine. Let’s see how much patience I have. I’ll unpack them and play music through them for a few weeks. I don’t have time to wait until Christmas to see if they can play “we wish you a merry Christmas” with a great soundstage. That’s why I don’t live in a city where public transportation is amazing. I don’t want to sit and wait on the slow bus to pick me up.
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Up next: Jeff Rowland 925s will arrive either this Friday or Monday. I will leave them on playing music and occasionally sit down to listen here and there. Meanwhile, I will be working on a deal on a pair of one of the following:
dag momentum m400s
gryphon colloseum
pass labs xa200.8
yes, I will do my best to bring a real dog fight into this arena. I will take all things into account in order to select my personal winner. |
I think the break in also takes into account your ears getting adjusted to the sound...
some say it’s actually your hearing that is making changes and not the equipment itself. I can say WITH CERTAINTY that my ears are not the same everyday in terms of critical listening. They are better when I sleep a full night and so so when I’m tired and worse when I’m drunk on whisky or tequila :)
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Update: I’ve been playing chord Dave dac for an hour and comparing it to the lumin s1. If this is how this chord Dave will sound then it’s no better than the lumin s1. I’d say it’s probably 5% better ? If that’s all this thing will do over the next few days, I’d go on the record and say it’s not worth the extra money over the lumin s1. This is a demo chord dac so it’s not new or just fresh. It’s already got some hours of playtime. Again, preliminary feeling is that the lumin s1 is crazy good for the money plus it does mqa which the chord Dave does not do.
Jeff Rowland 925s... hmmm. Sigh... will i slaughter you or keep you longer than any other amp I’ve owned?
I’ve pretty much realized one thing which is the whole new thing of “breakin in” gear is somewhat ridiculous. Why can’t it be like a car engine? You don’t rev it past 4,000 rpm for the first 3,000 Miles while it breaks in and soon after you hit 3,000 Miles on the odometer then you are free to connect a 225hp shot of nitrous or a twin turbo set up or a supercharger and have fun ?
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I don’t play cds so buying the CD player does not make sense for me. |
You’re right. I’m just shocked. I refuse to spend another dolllar to make the chord better. It has rave reviews and should have been easily capable of beating my Lumin. I don’t want to spend more money like a renderer for the Dave or the chord CD player. It’s ridiculous to have to spend even more money on it. It should have walked in here and beat my Lumin even if it was just by a little bit.
The chord Dave has rave reviews that give it more press than the Lumin. If you read reviews for both, you’d come away with thinking the chord Dave kills the Lumin and guess what... nope. See WHY reviews are so much bs? Take them with a grain of salt... |
Lumin is just gaining more respect from
me... the chord Dave doesn’t have s@it on the lumin s1.... I am now using my ref 10 preamp again and I can’t hear a difference between both sources. Sad day but I don’t think the chord will outperform the lumin s1. I will keep updating things. |
someone told me that at this level, it is a matter of flavor and nothing is bad. I would say that THIS IS the most accurate statement i have heard in a long time. For now, i am bringing the luxman d08u in a week or so and my plan is to compare its dac to my chord dave. |
on my way to get the wireworld platinum usb cable.... let's see if this will make the chord deve sound any better or not.. |
Ok men and women... the Jeff Rowland’s 925s are unpacked, set up, and powered on using my luxman 900u preamp.
Preliminary update: from a dead cold start, after traveling for over a week, they are THE BEST SOUNDING AMPLIFIER IVE OWNED. I’m shocked how clean, clear, accurate, detailed, smooth, and with a huge amount of detail and detail ive never heard before.... this is incredible.... I’m in shock to say be least. Well done Jeff Rowland. Incredible is an understatement.
Pass labs, simaudio, Bryston, audio research, McIntosh, Hegel, ati, theta digital, Classe audio, krell, luxman, boulder, nad, Cary audio, Plinius, Parasound, bhk ps audio, Mark Levinson, Belcanto: YOU ALL NEED TO PAY JEFF ROWLAND A VISIT AND TAKE A FEW COURSES FROM HIS BOOK. You all have been SMOKED.
You all know by now I’m the harshest critic here but I’ll be the first to say when I’m impressed and these amps have beyond impressed me.
I should close this thread now... |
307am and i am just going to bed... couldn’t get off the couch. I have a lot to share tomorrow when I get up. Outstanding set of amps. I was going to bring a pair of 160.8s with the xs preamp and I honestly don’t think it will beat the luxman/Rowland combo.
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Hi guys,
i have not connected the platinum usb, or the wireworld silver 7 speaker cables or even using upgraded power cords and yet it’s intoxicating how good they sound.
I want to enjoy it as what they are now and then bring cardas clear audio speaker cables since it’s what matches very good with Rowland, then use the platinum 7 usb cable, then the luxman d08u arrives next week and then the Rowland Capri s2 preamp the week after that.
A lot of more tweaks I have in mind for this. I just want to enjoy it as it is right this second.
Lastly, I had a bit of bass boominess with the Wilsons and Hegel, simaudio and with the Rowland’s that has now vanished. Sounds as if I ran room correction and fixed the bass. Very incredible. |
The rest of my solid state amps sound like a music video from the 80s sounds on YouTube... the Rowland’s 925s are like listening in 4k and the other amps a good 1080p signal.
I left them playing music while I’m out all day today and will return tonight with cardas clear audio speaker cables.
I’ve yet to use the ref10 but the luxman seems to have tremendous synergy with the Rowland amps. I also don’t really think it’s smart for me to use a tube pre when the amps sound like tubes already. I want to slowly enjoy this time around. I don’t want to rush through my music even though I listened to 5 hours of music last night. I keep digging old music just to see what things I’ve missed before in all of the music I thought I knew. I will say to you that the Rowland’s make you hear your music in a way that you haven’t before which is with more detail, space and oh the instrument separation is just crazy...
they are like the luxman set up on steroids... very similar with tremendous finesse |
The only thing I need to figure out is the setting on the back of the amps for the phase. Not sure what luxman pre is for xlr so that I can match it to the Rowland. |
Limiscate: the Hegel should be left on... it does not consume a ton of power just left on unlike pass labs amps. It also does not run hot at all. I hope you like it’s muscular presentation. |
Yes and the Hegel is far superior via balanced. Don’t mess with rca.
Ron: why is this a big league for you man? You have outstanding amplification as well. Keep following it this |
Thanks pokey. Appreciate your comments.
Maybe I should open a store dedicated to selling only power amps ? Haha
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Just connected the cardas clear audio cables and things got warmer with more bottom end. I’ll have them listen more tomorrow.
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W100i: funny that you say that but I tried what you said and I felt the chord Dave sounded damn good as a preamp in my system. I’d be happy using it as a preamp. |
Maybe the cardas cable will open up over time. Right now I felt that the cheaper cable I was using gave the amps more air and detail. I have not tried my silver 7 wireworld yet. |
You need to forget rca through Hegel. I told you this before. Hegel sounds best through balanced inputs. I got hiss which is normal.
Update: I bought the bluesound vault 2 and connected it via optical to my chord Dave dac. I also have the chord Dave dac connected to my laptop via usb and I’m now using the platinum usb cable. I don’t really hear much of a difference between the bluesound playing tidal and feeding it to the dac or the laptop feeding it to the dac via usb using that expensive usb cable.
If there’s any difference then I’d have to find a song that shows me that because I’ve tried 30 or more songs and I can’t hear anything difference between using usb with an expensive usb cable or a cheap monster optical cable coming from the bluesound vault 2. Hmm. This is quite shocking.
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I suspect the Rowland amps do about 60% of the magic here. Everything seems to sound very good through them. Eve a crappy source like pandora sounds like I’ve never heard it. Yes im using pandora to break in the equipment when I’m away.
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