2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


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Showing 50 responses by jays_audio_lab

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Stay tuned.... I will be back tonight with more info. It’s not cabling and it’s not speakers. You can begin to start guessing what it is... only hint I will give you is that it made my revel salon 2s sound like They have built in powered woofers.... 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Alright guys,
So as many of you know by now, i have been through a tremendous amount of gear which i originally did not intend to do when i first started this hobby. I simply wanted to get better speakers and amplifiers and well this continued week after week and month after month. I can honestly say that throughout the past years i have had big surprises on my journey:
1. pass labs xs150
2. Martin logan 15a
3. Martin logan clx
4. Pass labs 200.5s
5. Luxman combo
6. Audio Research Ref 6
7. Monitor Audio Pl500
8. Belcanto Black System

These pieces of equipment certainly left me with a long lasting impression which is why i am able to bring them back and mention them. This does not mean that everything else i had wasn’t awesome in some sort of way, but these listed above just dug deeper in me.
That said, i had a chance today to do business and pick up a component that i had thought about in the past few weeks, but i simply couldn’t get the right deal until this afternoon.
Anyhow, i came home today with it, got on my knees, began to plug in all the cables, power cord, etc and fired it up. Within the first 3 seconds and with me STILL kneeling and only with one ear facing the speakers, my jaw dropped instantly. I did not have to sit down, get up, or anything. It was THAT DRASTIC.
You must be wondering, what did you hear? well, i heard a massive soundstage that felt as if my surround speakers were on. A bubble of sound. I heard high frequencies that had the most relaxed yet refined sound signature without being forward or sharp in any way regardless of the volume. I heard as if my entire system now had new cables, new speakers, new source, etc. Long story short, NOTHING had made such a drastic improvement here before. It feels as if now i can’t move forward in this journey without this piece (and i won’t move on without it) because it is just too intoxicating.
With that said, the component that i place as the NUMBER ONE best component i have ever owned (except for speakers) is the AUDIO RESEARCH REFERENCE 10.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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yes Mike, the Ref 6 is outstanding as well. i don't have anything bad to say about it. 
The presentation with the ref10 is just different and larger. I almost feel like you hear music behind the speakers as well. Best component i have ever owned. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Boulder 2060 will be up for sale next. Luxman 900u amp and Ref 6 have found a new home. The person buying my 900u amp already owns a 900u amp so i am very much looking forward to hearing his impressions by using both amps in mono mode and with my monitor audio pl500s !
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Hi guys,
thank you for all your feedback. I do believe I have to start looking into cabling but I’d like to first get acquainted with the sound of this beast of a preamp. Once I’ve gotten used then I’ll begin to evaluate cabling. That said, I’m just in heaven with the presentation of this preamp. Again, it’s just different than what I’m used to. It doesn’t make me want to try more preamps which is why I sold my arc ref6. I think of the ref 6 as a speed boat with quickness, detail, dynamic and great soundstage. The ref 10 is a yatch in the ocean just cruising in the ocean. Big, wide, smooth and a lot of real state in terms of sound. That’s the most accurate description I can think of.
anyhow, next week I will be receiving the pass labs 350.8 and 160.8. The goal will be to try and see which of the 2 amps will be a better match with my speakers and preamp. I want to really like the 160.8s but something is telling me the 350.8 will be a better match. Revel salon 2s according to pass labs are a better match for the 350.8 or 600.8. The 160.8s May sound too lean with the salon 2 in terms of bass. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Mike,
the duo 300 is a good amp but I can’t see the arc ref6 and Krell duo be a smooth match. It may be a bit too bright sounding depending on the speakers of course. I highly HIGHLY suggest a simaudio 860a. The match is amazing between both 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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You will need to spend about 7k for it. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 

The thing one must remember is that the price gap isn't equivalent to the gap in performance. I can't stress this enough with regards to audio. 

 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 

 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Soo, let’s put it out there, the simaudio 860a is sounding incredible with the arc 10 preamp. Amazing synergy. Here is my question, will the pass labs 350.8 or the 160.8s sound even better that i will want to sell the simaudio or will the simaudio just hold its own and not allow me to let go of it ? are those pass labs amps just that far superior than the simaudio 860a? or will the pure 160 watts class a watts from the monos will be sufficient to squash the simaudio?  i have people over at pass labs waiting for my findings since they have been told by other users that the salon 2s sound incredible with the 350.8, but they want to see if the 160.8s can do an even better job. My only concern is that i feel the 160.8s may lack the massive bass attack that the 350.8 has. That said, if this was the case then WHY did i hear such amazing bottom end from the 200.5s? they have HUGE bass control and i gotta believe the 160.8s have bass control as well....
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
ok guys, 
here are my top picks based on things that left a lasting impression on me. Here you go,  but not in a particular order:
AMPS:
Pass labs xs150
Pass labs xa200.5
Luxman 900u
Audio Research gs150
Simaudio 860a

PREAMPS:
Audio Research Ref 10
Audio Research Ref 6
Luxman 900u

Speakers:
Monitor Audio PL500s
Martin Logan CLX
Martin Logan 15a
Dynaudio C4 Platinums




jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Tomorrow my pass amps arrive. Let’s see what happens but there’s no telling. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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hi there,
remember that this hobby is subjective so you will always find a person who loves a certain product. Also, not everyone here on audiogon follows my threads so it really does not matter. There is always a buyer, but it is just a matter of waiting.

Anyhow, the pass labs 350.8 and 160.8s have been playing for the last hour. Here are my initial impressions versus the simaudio 860a:

Simaudio 860a: holding its own here with great depth and detail. It has no issues controlling the salon 2s except if i decide to crank things up to high decibels.

pass labs 350.8: excellent bottom and detail. Can sound a bit "shouty" if i crank it up too hard.

pass labs 160.8: outstanding finesse and detail. Bottom end is just a tad less than the 350.8, but the highs and mids are above the rest.

anyhow, with that said, it is still way too early to begin conclusions. the amps have been traveling for the past week so i don’t expect them to be quite there yet. Overall, i am impressed with the simaudio 860a up to this point. I don’t know what will happen once i keep playing the pass labs over the next days.

This is going to be a very hard exercise to follow. i just started listening to the pass amps and i have the a bit of a confusion going on. My ears might also be tired so i will have to leave them on the rest of the day and will come back tonight to revisit and see how they have changed. Hard  as hell right now!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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i have tried plinius amps... You need to go back and read the many pages of amplifiers i have had :)

Ok guys, i have had the pass labs amps on for about 7 hours now. I am just starting to play music through the 160.8s. Here is what i am hearing so far:

Cristal clear detail, sense of space, gorgeous mids, zero fatigue, deep bottom end without bloating. These monos are indeed a different animal from what i heard earlier. 
Up next, the 350.8 will go through the paces and i will finish the night with the simaudio. All amps are using wireworld silver 7 power cords and xlr. Preamp is the audio research ref 10.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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pass labs 350.8: excellent bottom end which edges out the 160.8. The highs and mids are all there, but they seem to come more at you when compared to the 160.8. They seem very "in your face" which can give the illusion that the sound is better. However, if you sit down long enough then you will discover that it is just an illusion. 

Simaudio 860a: Holding its own and refuses to be taken out of my home. It is putting one hell of a fight that honestly makes me question HOW IS THIS AMP NOT WORTH 25K ? It has amazing detail, smoothness, musicality, it does not run hot, it has pretty much everything other than huge decibels when called for. 

That said, let's keep in mind this is the synergy i find with my salon 2s. I don't know how everything would be if i had electrostatics. I suspect the 160.8s might have the edge with that kind of speaker. 
One thing that i must admit is that from only listening today (tomorrow things could change since i will leave the pass amps on all night long) is just how good this simaudio amp is or the synergy it has with my ref 10 preamp. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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i can consider Wilson speakers and i almost did, but i have not had good luck with my connections since most of them are not wilson dealers and i have not found great local deals either. I would love to try Wilson, but it has to be bought at the right price or else i run the risk of losing too much since Wilson changes their models relatively fast. 
That said, today i had my preliminary conversation in regards to the martin logan neoliths. i have spoken to my connection about them and we are putting something together. It may be ALL OF MY CURRENT gear to be traded in plus money on top in order to swing these speakers. I just need to think about WHICH AMP i need to keep for those speakers since the rest have to go. Big investment and i just need to evaluate everything and think about the how much enjoyment they will give me in relation to the massive amount of money needed to make this happen. 
I heard those speakers and they did surprise me, but i need to see the room where they will go once i move in a few weeks and if it is feasible to have them in there with enough room to perform correctly. 
I have also heard mixed opinions from some dealers and audiophiles about the Neoliths. Some say they are not that good and that they prefer the clx speakers which i have owned for a short time and others say they are a massive improvement over anything else they've heard. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
hi Mike,
i owned the 15a and 13a speakers and the 13a lasted 12 hours in my rooms before i sold them. They were far inferior to the 15a in my room.
I love the 15a speakers but the clx were much better than the 15a.
As far as the set up you recommend above, i agree with you with your combination. I have A TREMENDOUS level of respect for the ref 10 preamp. It took this preamp to make me sell the reference 6 and now i am going to sell the luxman 900u. No other preamp is in my radar at this time because to be sincere honest, i am beyond impressed here and don’t care to try another preamp. I will keep going with my amp journey and use my ref 10 as my preamp for all future reviews. I will say it again, there is no better improvement EVER that is bigger than the ref 10 IN MY SYSTEM. I wish i had bought this unit years ago. I am pretty mad i didn’t try it before and enjoyed what i have been hearing now. However, it is better late than never. I am BLOWN AWAY, STUNNED, SHOCKED with the ref 10.
One last thing, those of you who believe a dac can do an REAL PREAMPLIFIER's job are really crazy. That is like asking a boy to do a man's job. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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Ok guys, here are my listening impressions on day 2 of doing a shootout between the pass labs 350.8 and the xa160.8:

Pass labs xa160.8: Outrageous, cristal clear sound that sounds as if someone went inside my ears and cleaned out my ear canal and left me listening to pure sound with zero distortion. 

Pass labs 350.8: Outstanding bottom end, good mids, but not as focused or articulate as the 160.8s. Great highs with good extension. Nothing really missing and if i did not have the 160.8s on hand, i would not know any better. 

With that said, NOTICE MY SHOOTOUTS ARE WITH EQUIPMENT ON HAND. My goal going forward will be to sell the component that gets beat by another one here in my home while owning both at the same time. Right now, i feel like the 160.8 has began to distance itself from the 350.8 being more liquid, clean, detailed at lower volumes, etc. Think of the pass 160.8s are just being superior at normal to moderate levels which is were most of us listen at. There is far greater engagement in the sound quality, BUT I can see where the 350.8 would be useful. For example, for movies the 350.8 may have the edge because it has more oomph and better at "swinging". The perfect way to describe both amps is like comparing the exhaust note of a mustang versus the exhaust of a corvette. The vette sounds more refined, more like an "exotic" if that makes sense? 


jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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The x350.8 seems to go deeper when called for. It seems to give you a couple of more decibels in the lower registers. It has all the slam needed while the 160.8 goes about its business in a smoother kind of way. The 350.8 goes from 0 to 100mph faster but the sound is somewhat different. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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The 350.8 will be better for the money than the 160.8 for most speakers. You are paying for refinement essentially. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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day 3 update:

pass labs xa160.8: Excellent detail with perhaps some of the best clarity i have ever heard in any amplifier. Amazing coherent sound with ZERO fatigue.

pass labs x350.8: Outstanding soundstage width and depth. Very deep low registers with clean tight bass. Everything is here in my opinion. It can drive just about anything you want. I don’t see any reason to want anything with more power.

That said, i have found that the x350.8 does a better job at giving a bigger soundstage and pushing out music with dynamics. This is an excellent amp for reggae, electronic, classical, and any other music with slam. It has zero issues sorting out complex passages and pushing those out to you.
On the other hand, the pass labs xa160.8 would be a better choice for pop, jazz, vocals, etc. Think Diana Krall, Sarah Mchlachlan, adele, tracy chapman, eric clapton, sam smith, paula abdul, etc. They make instruments linger in the air longer and also sustain them without making them fade out fast.
Both amps are pretty much designed for different things. Sometimes i love the 350.8 more and then the 160.8 and what i have realized is that the material matters in order to showcase their strengths.
i also noticed that over longer listening sessions i can get a little ear fatigue from the 350.8, but this could also be due to the material i play through it and not necessarily the amp. For the money, the 350.8 is indeed a better buy without a doubt. However, some of you (myself included) tend to value the extra finesse and ounce of detail here and there that the class a design can indeed bring to the table. It does suck that it comes at an expensive price.
One last thing i wanted to mention is that both amps DO NOT SOUND THE SAME when in class a. The xa160.8 sounds different than the 350.8 when it is within its class a operating range. The biggest advantage of owning the 160.8s is that you can biwire your speakers (which i have not done) which can give you added detail and cohesiveness.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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You may want to try the reference 6 preamp. I think you’ll replace your C1100 unless of course you value looks more than the actual sound. To me, audio research is far ahead of many others when it comes to
tube preamps. I really feel I won’t be able to replace this preamp. I think it will take another audio research preamp to replace it. If the reference 10se comes out or the ref 11 then I’ll be right there ready to buy. I am willing to bet money that we can bring the best preamps from many manufacturers and I’ll still walk away with this preamp. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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I have not had experience with earthquake. I suspect its sound is close to the sound of ATI amplifiers which are excellent for home
theater. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
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day number 5 update:

pass labs 350.8: i am starting to get the feeling that the 350.8 throws a bigger soundstage than the 160.8s but it does not have the same level of clarity although we are splitting hairs here. I do however, feel the 350.8 does have the edge in terms of soundstage width. 
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The change from the 13a to the 15a is massive. It’s like someone injected steroids to the sound. My curiosity is if the change in sound from the 15a to the neoliths will be massive as well or not. I have heard both but not in the same room. I’m close to striking a deal on the neoliths but I’m not 100% there yet. I need to really think about the move and also how hard it will be for me to move out of them when I am ready to part ways with them. Or will I ever part ways ? Right now the only component that has secured a spot in my home is the audio research 10. Until another preamp can walk through the door and blow it away, it will continue to be my reference component. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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As far as the 250.8, it is a great amplifier for a medium to small size room. That said, i will say the simaudio 860a is a better amp simply because it has a bigger soundstage. If i were to pick the best bang for the buck from all of the .5 or .8 amps, i would probably pick the 350.5. 
I am loving my 160.8s, but the 350.8 is no slouch and it gives me about 85% of the 160.8s sound. The only time i find the 160.8s far better is when you are sitting down late at night and your whole family is asleep and you want to hear all the detail and soundstage without wanting to wake everyone up. THAT IS WHEN THE 160.8s are killers. The 350.8 needs to be cranked up more in order to shine. 
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My room is far from perfect and let's just say that my ears have been "trained" to pick up a good sounding speaker in imperfect space. Let's face it, most of us don't have perfect rooms with panels, carpet, etc. Most of us have to compromise one way or another and that is why my reviews will give you a better idea. Remember, audio magazines review components no different than car magazines. For instance, my yukon denali is claimed to give you 15 mpg in the city, but based on my calculations i am lucky to get 11 mpg!!. What they don't tell you is that the 15 mpg are calculated with the a/c off, and in a perfect flat road which are all perfect conditions. It is the same thing they do with audio gear. They tell you it has amazing bass or fullness or this and that, but they fail to tell you they were using 30,000 dollar speaker cables or a 30,000 dollar source etc. 
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i am trying to keep the reviews going and i will possibly begin to do a youtube channel at some point. I think i could have been getting paid by youtube had i started this years ago lol 
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I am using the lumin s1 as my source. Since I feel I have an amazing preamp, I won’t be trying any other preamps anytime soon. I will continue to try amps and possibly sources and I say possibly because sources are a scary thing because dacs are rapidly changing just like cellphones are. I HATE brands that change models constantly. 
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Maybe... I’ve already started to talk to the wife about what makes me most sense in terms of content and how to go about topics, review, conclusion etc.  I’m brainstorming right now but I may end up doing it. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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UPDATE: I am in the middle of moving so i won't be doing any updates until probably the end of the month. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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UPDATE: i might be striking a great deal on a pair of martin logan 13a speakers which i did not like in my room, but since i am moving tomorrow to a new home with a different room and i plan on doing a few things to treat the room, i may end up with the revel salon 2s and martin logan 13a so i can better evaluate electrostatics vs conventional speakers. This will serve an outstanding purpose because it would be nice to know which amp/preamp sounds better with which speaker. The goal would be for me to have both types of speakers at once going forward. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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New room, new amplifiers, FAR SUPERIOR PREAMP THIS TIME, PASS LABS xa160.8 Monos and a better room. Essentially the 13a won’t have a single component this time around that was used in the past with my 13a. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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Good debate. What’s the heart of a system ? The amp? Preamp ? Source ? Let’s leave the speakers out and choose one of the 3 choices above. What does everyone think ? What’s the most important component ? I am really torn because I’ve been an amplifier guy for a very long time. I love amplification but the ref10 just made me rethink that. I mean, if I bought Parasound jc1s with the matching preamp and I compared it to a ref10 preamp using a pair of emotiva monoblocks, which sounds better ? My money says the ref10/emotiva combo blows away the Parasound combo. 
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Update: just picked up a pair of 13a Logan’s. How hardcore am I when I’m in the middle of a move and I’m driving around looking for more audio gear ? :) 
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I keep telling everyone the reference 10 will make anyone’s jaw drop. It’s the best thing I’ve done for my system.
That said, I bought back my Hegel h30 amplifier today. I want to now try this amp with the reference 10. Essentially once I have things up and running here, I will do a nice shoot out between the simaudio 860a, Hegel h30, pasS labs 350.8.
who do you all have your money on from those 4 amps using the ref 10 as a preamp ? 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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hi guys, 
i have an opportunity to bring back the black system which has been fully updated. That said, i would have to sacrifice either my pass labs amps or my reference 10 which i love dearly. 
What would you all do? 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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Thanks Riaa
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jays_audio_lab OP
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I’ve reviewed a couple of tube amps already. Read the entire thread...
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jays_audio_lab OP
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Unfortunately i just don’t want to venture anymore with tube amps. The best tube amp I’ve heard is the gs150. After that was sold, I don’t want to try any tube amps for a while. Tube amps tend to be more difficult to sell too. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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For B&w, i recommend Mark Levinson, Classe and simaudio. Stay away from Krell, Plinius, rotel. B&w needs smooth amps with detail. Forward sounding amps do not sound good with B&w because they can get too bright. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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P5 is decent. It’s too outdated and lacks sparkle. Doesn’t really do much outstanding but it’s good overall. Nothing really stands out on anthem amps. 
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hi guys,
just wanted to update everyone that i have parted ways with my reference 10 and the pass labs 160.8s. The updated belcanto black version 2 system will be shipping this week and will be back but now fully updated with the ability to do MQA and direct streaming. NO more do i have to use jriver, etc.
That said, i am buying another reference 10 in the next week or so because as i said above, the ref 10 is the best component i have owned. Will it best the belcanto black system? will using a pass 350.8 or hegel h30 with the ref 10 and the lumin s1 dac as a source be enough to best the belcanto all digital set up? Will the black system just outshine the ref10/pass350.8/hegelh30/lumin s1 set up through both the salon 2s and martin logan 13a? where do you have your money? we shall see :)
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ok guys, the hegel h30 arrives today and next week the belcanto black system version 2 will be here. i also have the new ps audio p20 coming next week which will really be an awesome tool to review since it is supposed to be the best thing out there. 
Lastly, i wanted to keep it a secret, but i am getting close to buying a pair of wilson audio sasha 2s... i have never owned Wilson and want to try them, but i need to hear them first before i spend the money so that is what i will be doing hopefully this weekend. One acquaintance of mine loves Wilson and said things sound much more real than anything else he has owned. He says instruments sound more alive and with more separation. According to him it will take me one song and i will be selling my revel salon 2s and 13a's. Any Wilson owners following my thread that can chime in and who have owned revels or electrostatics? Again, i am very tempted to pull the trigger on a pair of Sasha 2s.  
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jays_audio_lab OP
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Guys, I’ll reply back to all of you. All I can quickly say is that no the simaudio 740p does not come close to the audio Ref 10. The ref 10 is at the top of the ladder and everyone else is trying to take second place. Not even close. No preamp has ever surprised me as much. It’s a massive gap between the simaudio and the ref 10.
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By the way, I almost bought the Alexia 1 today but I decided to stick to the Sasha 2s. They will be delivered this Monday ! 
I have been wanting to try Wilson audio and they will be compared against my salon 2 and 13a’s 
i can’t wait to see what the Sasha 2 is all about. Will it kill my salons? 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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The ref 10 is relaxed as a yatch in the ocean but huge like a cruise. The ref 10 paints the biggest wall of sound that I have heard. It doesn’t sound forward or relaxed but rather just right in terms of brightness. Zero fatigue and the most visceral bass I’ve heard. For me to tell you that I traded it in and I’m buying another one in a few weeks should be a testament to how I feel about it. The luxman and ref 6 were only bested by this ref 10.

Anyhow, In regards to the brands that some of you are mentioning, I try to do my homework before I bring home anything. I don’t just buy anything because I’d be filing for bankruptcy very soon. I need to be methodical and strategical about it. That said, if you all want MY PERSONAL OPINION about your ayre pieces of any other brand then feel free to let me listen to your pieces. I will compare your amps or preamps against my own and give you my opinion. If yours indeed are better than I’ll make sure to not only tell you that but also buy them. None of my gear is leaving my home until something else can come and take it out of here.
Sure, I’ll sacrifice some gear in order for me to try other stuff but those pieces that have my soul won’t be sold.
I can’t go and spend 15k on a pair of ayre twenty Monos because I’ll be losing money just to unload them once I’m done. I’ve made several offers to different dealers and end users for these and they have declined so it’s just a matter of time before someone ends up selling them to me.
I have no monetary compensation for this And manufacturers won’t dare to let me try their stuff in my home because they will be afraid of what I may say. I know several brands follow my thread (Belcanto has an eye on this thread) and they try to keep up with it.
On another note, Today I heard the Wilson Alexia 2 with Mark Levinson 536 Monos and the ref 10 along with transparent cabling and I did not like it at all. I thought something was missing and I told the dealer that I felt that amp and speaker combo isn’t right. He proceeded to connect the 2301s and things got better but when he went to the audio research 750se Monos, things changed drastically.
I also feel like many people here love to mention the room acoustics etc and I feel like you can get carried away with that as well. Today I felt that the room was way too dull and over treated with acoustic panels. I feel like the balance in the room needs to be right or else you can kill all the air and high frequency detail if you overdo your room.
Lastly, my itch with the Wilson brand started a few months ago. To be honest, I haven’t been wowed by Wilson the few times I’ve heard it. The best sounding speaker I’ve auditioned was the Martin Logan 15a although I think the platinum 500s were better. 
I simply have to spend the money to bring the Wilson audios home and since I’m buying them right, I will try and if I don’t like then then they will be on their way out and I can quickly recuperate my money. The Alexia is a harder speaker to sell because they are bigger and more money. I find that selling speakers above the 20k used street price is a hard thing to do. It’s rough even for dealers let alone someone like me. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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I can vouch for high end palace. I bought the dynaudio temptations from him and he was very solid. You should have zero concerns with Larry. 
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Anyone here compare the Wilson audio Sasha 2 to the Alexia 1? I want Alexias because according to Wilson audio it is a far better speaker. However, my reasoning is that I should try the Sasha 2 and if I love them then move up to the Alexia 1. 
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jays_audio_lab OP
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I have yet to own CH Amplifiers. I have heard it at 2 shows and was not impressed by any means. Cold, boring , non engaging BUT it could have been system synergy. That said, I have been told by several people whose years I trust that they heard the line and they felt exactly the same. 
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