I’ll warn a lot of people about the salons. Please make sure you have a good room with treatments if possible. This speaker is an extension of your room. Don’t mess around with the salon if you have a crappy room. Just pass on them.
If you want a speaker that doesn’t give a damn about your room or size or ceilings or shape, then get the platinum 500s. They will make music all through your house. |
Salons are also made in China so I don’t know... |
I am using the luxman combo with the salon and it’s very good sounding. Very nice detail and smoothness with big soundstage. The only thing I do feel is that if you put the hammer down, the luxman amp thins out just a tad which is expected since it’s only 150 watts per channel.
By the way, I bought a silver 7 power cord for my audio research reference 6 preamp and wow. HUGE DIFFERENCE. this is the first time I can honestly say I hear a drastic change with a powercord.
The boulder amp does drive the salon 2s very nicely. |
The monitor audio pl500s would bring tears to those salon 2 owners. I just had 3 friends leave after listening to the salons vs my platinums. They said the salons sounded mufffled in comparison to the platinums. Isn’t it funny how most people here would never guess such an outcome? I actually was talking to a dealer today about a piece im interested in buying and he asked what speakers I owned and said monitor audio pl500 and salon2s and he said oh wow salon 2s I love that speaker. Lol
little does he know the pl500s demolish the salons but hey the perception is that the salon should beat the pl500s because of all the media coverage they have. This goes to show you that sometime assuming is really the wrong way to judge things.
I believe someone here had messaged me about 3 weeks ago asking me what I thought about my past experience with the salon 2 because he wanted to replace his pl500s and his dealer told him the salons were far superior. I told this person that I’d still take the platinums and this was before I got my hands on these salons so now my gut feeling is 100% real. The pl500s are superior to the salons 2. It makes the salon 2s sound like they are playing non high definition material and the pl500s sound like they are playing hd music. That’s the best way to explain it. |
I don't say it just because I own it, but in case anyone may have missed it, this is the 5th time I own luxman and it never ever disappoints. |
Salon 2s will sound good if you only have them by themselves to listen to. Nobody accused them of sounding dull when they are sitting there by themselves. It’s when you have a superior speaker sitting next to it and actually do a full comparison by swapping full electronics when you’ll realize that they aren’t as huge sounding or detailed as you think they are. Remember, salon is 12 year old outdated technology. The platinums 500s came out at the end of 2014 so they are about 4 years old.
Think of it like this: go drive a 2000 Lexus and see how smooth it rides. You’ll be thrilled. Then go and jump in a 2018 Lexus and then you’ll see how much smoother it is. That’s what it takes for you to realize things. You must do a true a/b comparison on the spot. |
These are used speakers not sealed. They are about 1 year old... demos. |
Because at this level, things aren’t easy to pick apart. You honestly think you can hear an audio research 6 today and next next week hear the audio research 10 and you can pick them apart ? Human ear doesn’t have a long memory like that. It is easy to forget what a system sounds like when you haven’t heard it in months. Your ears get used to the sound. Haven’t you gone on vacation and then when you return and turn on your system after weeks of not listening to it and all of a sudden you are like wow... but this wow effect lessens the more you listen to it day in day out ? That’s because your brain and ears get adjusted to it.
The only TRUE WAY to asses whether something is better and by how much is best done by having both at once. Does this mean you can’t do it without having both ? No. But you will only know HOW MUCH better or worse something is by having them both. That’s what I have noticed. If I had the luxman preamp and not the ref 6, I couldn’t tell what each one excels at because again at this level of the field it’s much more difficult to pick things apart. |
This is WHY I am saying that the salons are inferior to the platinums and let’s face it, my front is is actually more beneficial for the salons than my platinums. The platinums don’t need all that horsepower. |
I am going to say that a lot of these burn in figures are mostly mental and all that happening is your ears are getting adjusted. |
@techno:
Waiting on your thumbs down... |
Hearing memory AT THIS LEVEL of electronics is MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. If you are comparing a denon receiver vs a datasat processor/amplifier set up then hell yes it is easy to tell. however, once you get to the big leagues in terms of amplification/preamp and speakers, things are not so clean cut anymore. It is much harder. Do you know how many times i have heard amps that i almost couldnt tell them apart unless i spent countless hours looking for songs that allowed me to hear their differences? For example, Hegel h30 vs pass labs 350.8. Very similar sounding amps that become difficult to tell apart in many ways, but i ended up feeling the hegel was a better buy because it costs less on the used market, no heat, and much better bass than the 350.8. Tonally speaking they are too close to prefer one over the other.
One last thing, in order to TRULY asses any system and decide which one is better, a lot of conditions need to align: Same room, cables, front end, material, AND last but not least your energy level is HIGHLY IMPORTANT. I can't begin to tell you how many times i have listened to my set up and i thought it sounded poor and then i went to bed and got a full night of rest and tried it again and i thought " this sounds better than last night, what the hell happened?"
This is the impact that tired ears have on you. They will blemish your experience quite easily. |
Well guys, tonight I have decided to part ways with the pl500s. Let me just say that these are indeed the best speakers I’ve had in my room. Besting Martin Logan clx, Renaissance, Sonus Faber cremonese, revel salon 2 and others I can’t remember now. I am going to be hopefully moving to a new home in 3 weeks and I decided that in the new bigger room I will have, I want Martin Logan neoliths. Yes, the boulder 2060 has to stay for now as well. I want to take this to another level. I don’t know how long it will take me to grab the neoliths so I’ll be using the salon 2s for now as I begin to find a new home for my platinum 500s. I will be listing them very soon. Be on the look out for these.
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Hi Mike,
thanks for your words. I have heard the neoliths and thought they were the best I’ve heard but they do need the space. This is why I never considered them but hopefully this year it may happen for me. Luckily, I already have a front end (ref 6/boulder 2060) that I think will work perfectly handling the neoliths. First I have the find a home for my platinum set up and then continue do some numbers. Neoliths will not be cheap to say the least.
as far as you being my neighbor, that would be great. I actually don’t have many audiophile friends in my neck of the woods since most people are into the beach etc and hardly anyone spends time in their home during weekends here. I happen to do long night listening sessions alone most of the time. It would be cool to have someone who wants to come and help me out move stuff around while we drink some whisky. |
Thank you again mike. I do this for everyone to read and gather my thoughts which could potentially help them on their next purchase.
By the way, I started to play with the revel salons yesterday by positioning them better and using 2 speaker cables per amp by using the 4 binding posts per channel that my boulder amp provides. It’s actually really interesting to hear how much the sound morphed. One thing is for sure, the salon isn’t really to be played at low volumes to enjoy it. You need to crank it up to really hear it shine |
Thanks for the those tips. I’ll keep them in mind.
Sooooo the simaudio 860a/ref 6 have been playing for the last 2 hours. Talk about synergy here guys. the soundstage is massive with those 2 components. I had forgotten how great simaudio amps are. I can honestly say that these two sound incredible and really could see myself happy at this point. Zero harshness, big sound, smooth, great overall musicality that makes you want to tap your feet. My audio research ref 6 has sounded the best with this simaudio amp. The synergy is incredible.
the only two components that can rival
the simaudio/ref6 is the luxman combo. |
Simaudio 860a will be put to the test tonight. I just turned it on and will leave it on for about 3 hours before I listen to it. This amp needs to be on 3 days straight to really come to life so tonight is just a preliminary hearing. I’ll use salons and The platinum 500s. I suspect the simaudio will have amazing synergy with the pl500s and it won’t be able to make the salons sing.
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No plans to get the boulder preamp or a second luxman amp at this time. I want to focus on selling my platinums and any other pieces that will get me to the neoliths. |
I don’t have the 740p anymore but I did biamp the platinums yesterday using the luxman on the highs and the simaudio on the lows and the platinums really improved drastically from this experiment. More detail and depth.
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Ok guys, my monitor audios pl500s have been sold to a fellow audiophile friend of mine who’s been following my journey for sometime. He’s coming from Sonus Faber olímpica 3s which I’ve also owned. These speakers will totally elevate his listening experience to another level hands down. He also owns the luxman 900u combo which I know has insane synergy with the platinums.
Going forward, all my listening sessions will be with the revel salon 2s until I buy the neoliths. I’ll be sad to see my platinums leave my home but they will certainly sing much better in his room because his room is much larger than mine which will allow these speakers to sound even better than they did with me.
BEST SPEAKER I HAVE OWNED HANDS DOWN |
Mike,
i use lumin s1, simaudio 650d CD player. |
Thank you guys for all the humble comments. I appreciate all the feedback you all give me and it’s a pleasure to share my personal journey. This thread has been going for a long time and it’s incredible the amount of people that reach out to me because of it.
I wish I did have a second set of ears to confirm my findings.
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decisions decisions... so i have access to a boulder 2010 preamp and a audio research reference 10 preamp. I can only get one at this time, can anyone give me their input as which one i should get? something tells me to get the boulder to see the synergy with the boulder 2060 and another thing tells me the audio research 10 could be a game changer.
Ok, give me your input guys |
I don't dislike magico. The m series is great. I don't quite really love the S series though. A magico m2 versus Alexia 2 would be a dream...both priced almost identical.. |
hi guys, yes i agree so far with your feedback. i love my reference 6 but i am very curious about the boulder 2010 because i want to really hear how the pair sounds with my salon 2s. i still have this last itch to hear both components together to find out what they are capable of. I am very curious about the ref 10 though, but given that there are not many 2010 preamps out there, i guess i could justify this opportunity to pull the trigger and see what happens. I have several opinions from different friends of course who claim the ref 10 is probably superior in every way simply because it is a newer design. |
Ok so I may end up playing with 3 separate preamps and amps all at once. You guys are killing me here :)
i am now leaning heavily towards the boulder 2010 rather than the ref10.
If that 2010 doesn’t wow me given the price, I’ll probably sell the boulder combo and revisit the Belcanto black system. |
I’ve never owned the Titan but I do like simaudio stuff. I know the Odeon is the best multichannel amp I’ve owned. |
I was offered a bat 600se and 655se. I passed on both because the market for those amps is very shaky and unstable just like pass labs. For instance, a luxman 900u amp which is 15k and the pass labs 350.8 which is worth 14k as well don’t have the same used market value. The luxman is worth about 2500 dollars more than the 350.8 on the used market. |
Video is being uploaded. It should be live in about 30 min.
PLEASE NOTE: The audioquest dragon speaker cables aren't broken in. (30 hours of playtime). |
Classe is decent but too warm sounding. Simaudio is more detailed. Haven’t you noticed that B&w was always showcased with Classe ? That’s because it helped with the brightness of the speakers.
I will say the salons and simaudio amp have insane synergy. It’s like cheese and wine. I could easily sit here and be happy with those 2 together and just find more preamps.
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Thanks Guido. Look I’m not saying that I know what this boulder amp can do unless I bring the matching preamp. However, I’m not sure anymore if the pream will change things to be better sounding. I really don’t think it will save things for me. Boulder seems to be built incredible but I don’t know why they don’t make them less clinical. How the hell can a 200 watt amp sound bigger and fuller than a 600 watt class a amp ? Mind you, I’ve used 3 sets of speakers and 2 different preamps with this boulder amp. You’d think things would be different at some point but the truth is that it doesn’t get better.
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hi guys,
so in an effort to keep things more even and without any sort of inclination to any particular brand, i had 2 friends come out last night to listen to 3 different set ups which were:
1. luxman combo
2. audio research ref 6/ simaudio
3. audio research ref6/ boulder
what i did was to have each person listen to 2 songs of their choice through tidal with each setup, BUT it was a blind folded test. They had to step out of the room while i switched each set up so they would have zero idea what was playing. i covered all of the equipment with towels so nobody would know what was playing. That said, here is what each person chose after it was all said and done:
Friend #1:
1st place - Luxman
2nd place - audio research ref 6 / simaudio
3rd place - boulder/ audio research
Friend # 2:
1st place - audio research ref 6/ simaduio
2nd place - luxman
3rd place - boulder / audio research ref 6
Me:
1st place - audio research ref 6/ simaudio (wins by a hair)
2nd place - luxman (very close race for 1st)
3rd place - boulder/ audio research ref 6
Anyhow, we all agreed that the boulder 2060 just sounds lifeless, clinical, analytical and it is probably in need of either its matching preamp or just a pair of Rockport speakers which we all know has synergy with it.
That being said, that was last night. Tonight i am listening to the simaudio, but i am using the ref 6 and luxman 900u preamp and i am getting a preliminary impression that the luxman preamp with simaudio amp might be better than last night’s winner (ref6/simaudio combo). i am trying different songs and at times i feel the luxman pre/simaudio outshines the ref6/simaudio but as i change songs then i feel the other way around. it is indeed one hell of a hard exercise to say the least. |
I left my boulder amp on for weeks. Things got better but they still don’t impress me. I’m most likely not willing to make the huge investment on a boulder preamp. So far this amp has not shown me anything but perhaps bass control. That’s it. |
Guido,
i have a gut feeling the 2010 preamp is amazing. I actually had the same feeling about the preamp too and I haven’t heard it. I wonder how much better it is than the pass labs xp30 or luxman?
I have a funny feeling that the preamp is the special piece too.... I’ve always wanted a game changing solid state preamp |
So i just spoke to a boulder deal who swears my issue with the 2060 is because the 2060 and the 1060 are no good. He swears the 2050 monos is where boulder begins to show you what they can do in terms of sound quality. He swears if i buy the boulder 2050 and 2010 combo that i am not going to need anything else. Of course, i told him that i currently have a sour taste in my mouth with the boulder brand and its musical presentation and so i am not going to just go out there and buy a 2050 & 2010 when i am not even liking what i am hearing. Typically, people MOVE UP the ladder within the same brand when they are blown away and not disappointed. Meaning, if you own a mercedes c230 and love it, you want to eventually move to the s550 because you love the brand, but if you hate the c230 because you have issues with it, etc then you are probably not going to go to another model. However, with cars it is different because you can actually test drive the other model you are considering.
i told him that the amp sounds lifeless and sterile. It almost feels like the amp is playing music inside a morgue rather than in a listening room. It feels so out of place when compared to my other amps. What i have noticed is that current AND former boulder dealers do have a strong passion for the brand.
They also told me that boulder shows you what you have in your front end and my question to them is " damn it, how much do i have to spend to make boulder sound better than my cheap amplifiers ? $40,000 dollars? " i mean that would be ridiculous to spend that kind of money in order to best a simaudio, or a luxman amp. Now he has me thinking about changing cabling, sources, yada yada yada and my thing is that WHY does so much need to change in order to just improve on what my more ’affordable" amps are doing already? It is not like i am trying to best 100k dollar amplifiers with the boulder amps. That is what is mind boggling to me. Why do i have to change cables, sources, this and that ONLY to make this boulder amp beat a cheap simaudio or luxman amp? are they kidding? |
Thanks for your point. You pretty much nailed it. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I want to try brands like magnus audio, rogue, etc. But that’s a risky thing to do because if I were to be wreckless with brands then I’d be filing for bankruptcy in no time.
I have built a great network of connections and I have access to many brands with prices that most of you couldn’t get. Why? Well think about how much gear goes through my living room and all the business I must be doing in order for me to keep going ? My purchases have to be done wisely so that once I’ve tried it then I can sell and take minimal losses. That said, most of you don’t care about this because you just want to be happy and use your products and that’s it. I enjoy the journey of trying new stuff Constantly and then sell in order to buy the next item I want to review.
this is one of the many reasons why I’ve not tried ayre. I mean if someone sold me the ayre mxr twenty for 10k for the pair then I’d buy them right now. I don’t even hesitate at all when deals come my way.
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So guys,
as you know in order for me to keep this thread alive I have to buy things right. I can’t overspend and take massive losses between each component I try. Ayre now is very dangerous to the because the owner died and that will be a big point to be talked about in terms of resale value. This is why I can’t try brands that only a handful of people have heard of. Why ? Because I have to sell that down the road and I need a buyer for it.
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Ok guys,
looks like the boulder 2010 preamp will be happening. This is a very dangerous move for me but I’m hoping I don’t have to get rid of this preamp and that it can blow away any other preamp I’ve owned.
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Well, i have been talking to several dealers and people with plenty of experience and i have heard that the issue my boulder has is that it has massive power demands and my standard 120v outlet isn't cutting it. I was told (read this somewhere as well) that the boulder 2060 sounds DRAMATICALLY different when using 240 volts. Long story short, i have been told by a few people i am starving the amp of power and i need at least a power regenerator like a ps audio p10 or p20 at the very least. That i can't expect the amp to show me what it can do when it does not have the electricity it needs. I am not going to lie, this definitely makes plenty of sense and i would not mind giving it a shot. Yes, i have not given up on things yet with this amp. I want to part ways with it after i have tried all imaginable with it. I still CAN NOT accept that such monster of an amp sounds so lifeless. |
I am 6ft tall 255 lbs. Yes I workout 5 days a week which helps. |
that absolutely sound review of the 2110 and 2160 is exactly how i feel about my boulder. It is not a bad amp, but it will demand outstanding upstream components. It won't forgive any crappy cables or sources.
That said, i decided to pass on the boulder 2010 preamp at this time and bought back my 350.8 again so that i can use my reference 6 preamp with it and see how things sound with those 2. Will it best the simaudio and luxman? we shall see... |
Alright guys, so after deciding to pass on the boulder 2010 preamp, i decided to go back to pass labs in order to try its synergy with my preamplifiers and revel salon 2s. Long story short, i just bought a 350.8 and a pair of 160.8s!!!! The madness continues and i think i will soon be parting ways with the boulder amp. |
it is time to return to pass labs. I will be trying the ref6 and possibly the xs preamp, but the issue is that pass labs will be changing their amps this year so i may hold out and wait until that happens. |
No. It’s still here and will continue to be here. |
js8896,
you are late to the party. i already owned the audio research gs150 a few months back. Great amp with insane musicality and don't have anything bad to say about it. |
Jafant,
i am keeping the luxman set up because it really does NOTHING BAD. I like its musicality, but maybe i am keeping it simply because i am going to go monos with it?
i am going to bring amps for my audio research preamp and pass labs will be excellent.
I am receiving wireworld gold eclipse 7 xlr cables and speaker cables this Friday in order for me to try. Will the boulder react better with a better cable? will it beat my other set ups by using these superior cables? or will the simaudio distance itself even more ?
we shall see :) |
thanks Dave.
i just brought home wireworld gold eclipse 7 balanced interconnects and speaker cables..... .tomorrow things will be very VERY interesting ! |
Jajaj yes I know a lot of people are following my thread. Let’s face it, I’ve read other threads and nobody has the amount of gear that I constantly play with unless they’re a store. I am just thrilled each week to see fed ex come drop off something new. Next Wednesday I have the 160.8s arriving and next Friday the 350.8. I’m almost sad when I don’t have new gear arriving ;) |
Guys, I just purchased a game changer piece of equipment.... I want to say that this piece has made THE MOST massive improvement I’ve heard aside from speakers. This is just shocking and right now I cant get out of my couch. It’s just magical and really the most special component already for me. It took me 3 seconds before my jaw dropped. |
I could easily sell my entire set up and build using this component as the foundation. Right now, I really can’t believe I didn’t make this move before. |
