My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
Good stuff Viber. Will be interesting to see if WC agrees with you. Usually he has a bit of a preference bias toward whatever is currently in the room. Maybe that is because his typical progression is to move upward in cost which can often result in better quality (not always of course). Interesting to note that M6 is over 50% more expensive than Alexx, and now we have at least two forum members preferring Alexx, for whatever that is worth when comparisons are over YT. Yes I’m willing to wait until the M6 gets better electronics so that it is a fair comparison, but I would submit that the fair comparison point is when M6 gets electronics that total $60-70k less than what the Alexx had, to even the total cost, given that M6 costs about that much more than Alexx. Come to think of it, perhaps we are already there (fair total cost comparison) with the Soulution? Probably close anyway - same dac, for starters. Then Soulution costs equal at least to Gryphon preamp, and Mephisto within the cost delta of Alexx to M6. So there you go. M6 with Soulution greater total cost than Alexx with Gryphon pairing, at least I think so. Probably not there yet as to the Boulder pairing with Alexx. Also, Alexx now not even a current product, but a legacy product, FWIW, with the new replacement now out. fwiw |
Going back to the Sasha DAWs that you had, noticed yesterday that Stereophile gave that speaker class A recommended component but did not place it in the full range category, rather restricted LF. Odd given that Wilson specs it to 20 Hz, which is supposedly the criteria. Anyway, I don't put much stock in Stereophile recommendations but just thought that was interesting. |
He does that. Posts videos of his speakers and then when they get criticized he can’t handle it and lashes out. Mostly people just ignore the desperate cries for legitimacy of continually advertising here. We are focused on WC’s stuff on this thread. The times recently that WC has purchased similar speakers he declined the GTAs and chose Maggie 3.7i, 20.7 and Martin Logan 15a all within a 3 month period despite the incessant advertising on this thread. He’s a dealer of the speakers but violates A’gon’s policy of clearly stating such, btw. Just ignore is easiest |
WC doesn’t want to use subwoofers. He’s reiterated that, oh, about 1,000 times. He primarily evaluates amplifiers, and subwoofers have their own integral, separate-from-main-amp, lower-quality amplifiers, typically, so that alone defeats the purpose of his ability to compare amplifiers, and the low-end control they provide (a key feature for the amps he compares). Any speaker in WC’s room has to stand, full-range, on its own merits, without any low-end help. Bass-wimpy speakers need not apply. |
That makes 3 favoring Wilson over Magico. "Lively discussion" - ha! well yeah if you consider faxer and Viber advertising for the GTA and me and others telling them to stop on this thread. But whatever - I actually hope faxer gives WC a freebie pair so he can test them - I’d be interested to see if they could beat the Tektons in absolute, full-range performance. WC has said many times in response to Viber begging him to try GTA that he has zero interest in purchasing them because in a week when he wants to dump them nobody will buy them. So I guess the only option is if he gets a freebie pair to test, like the Tektons. He purchased the Maggies (3.7i, then immediately 20.7) and loved them (he didn’t have the same resale concern with Maggie that he has expressed re GTA) - said the 20.7 were best speaker under $20k that he’s had if I recall. Anyway, back to stuff that has actually been in WC’s room, not wannabe stuff that has never been in WC's room. |
You’ve been doing the vids for at least a year now and I’ve probably watched every one, many multiple times. And the best ones IMO are always the head2heads of two competing components. When presented in isolation it’s too hard to compare. Most don’t have time to rummage for the comparison. Viber compiled a recent comparison which was cool but even that with time passage and your rate of turnover meant that components had changed so that not a true comparison Wilson to Magico, as you mentioned. I know there are limitations on the super expensive ( I get it you couldn’t keep Alexx and M6 at same time) stuff but the integrated shootout i suggested would have cost way less then the boulders by themselves |
No it’s just that you need stuff at the same level to compare against. I had suggested the idea of bringing in 6 or 7 (whatever it was) integrated amps in the under $20k category and let them battle it out, head to head contemporaneously. That would be really interesting. Instead, if just a single low cost thing is brought in and played in relative temporal isolation, the only thing in recent memory to compare to is the gryphon/Boulder, so that’s what people do and the result is entirely predictable |
Hey that’s cool to have the little krell integrated. Will be interesting to hear how you rate it versus the Pass Labs Int 60 and Luxman integrateds that you’ve had. yysantabarbara has this krell and likes it i doubt you’ll get it but the 95th anniversary Luxman 595ase integrated is supposed to be a lot better than the 590axii that you rated the best amp under $12k earlier |
For me the Magico M6 are a little too bright with a neutral amplifier so I found the Pass Labs to be a better match for the M6 vs Soulution. Could definitely see the Soulution/M6 combo becoming fatiguing after time based on the Liberty song - perhaps that why no long listening sessions with that combo. That’s why I had asked the question about the general house sound character of Soulution, not being familiar with the brand myself. I suspect with Wilson Alexx I’d have preferred Soulution over Pass Labs though, meaning I don’t think the Pass Labs is a better amp than the Soulution, only that it pairs better with brighter speakers,, especially based on how great Alexx sounded with Boulder/Gryphon, themselves neutral amps (hardly warm, to say the least). Anyway, probably those Be tweeters are great for older audiophiles with some high frequency hearing loss or for those who prefer a brighter sound, but for me they can be too piercing (same with Focal, Paradigm Persona). I like the soft domes better. Personal preference. Didn’t like the old Wilson metal Focal tweeters either, for reference. Probably with mixing and matching you can get to a similar sound either by using a warm amp with bright speakers or a neutral amp with neutral speakers. I prefer the latter, such as a Boulder/Wilson combo or Gryphon/Wilson (still think the Collosseum/Sasha DAW was damn good, right up there with anything). Of course one person’s bright is another’s neutral, that goes without saying but if I don’t say it someone will jump on me so there it is, disclaimer done, haha. |
My predictions have kinda sucked lately but I’ll go out on a limb and predict: 1) The amp that you already have that is leading to long listening sessions with the M6 is Audio Research Reference 160M’s. 2). The amp that is being built and will be ready in June or whenever is Gryphon Mephisto Solo monos. 3). Based on how awesome the ARC Reference 160M’s are, you will eventually get the ARC Reference 750 SELs, or more likely the 750 SE’s. There you go. Three random predictions based on gut instinct. Let's see if any of them are on target |
Wow those new Wilson Alexx V’s are gorgeous https://wilsonaudio.com/products/alexx/alexx-v fly yellow, WC, get on it! |
Oh, okay. I just looked at his website and didn’t see Soulution as a brand. If he names a brand that he doesn’t sell then I will eat crow, sure. I’m hoping it’s audio research so that my prediction yesterday will be correct. That would be an amazing prediction if indeed he brought you ARC stuff to test, because until this video today you had not mentioned that the amp came from him or given any hints as to what it was, other than that it was really good. And especially since 95% or more of the amps you get are solid state, not tubes. Maybe 99%. |
I have no problem with the opposing beryllium opinion. Everyone can have their own opinion. The only person my own opinion is definitely correct for is me. Wouldn’t ever try to tell others they’re wrong in what they like so long as they aren’t likewise trying to impose. No absolutes in this game. Would be boring if there were |
Your ownership track record pretty much says it all. Not a big mystery. Even if you actually prefer the M6 to Alexx (which I have a guess as to the answer), the only way you’d be able to say you like Magico better is if M6 beat a higher priced Wilson for you, which you haven’t had, or if an equal or lower priced than Alexx Magico was better than Alexx for you. Well I guess you could say anything you want but if we want to be logical about it would need one of those scenarios |
Shocking! The dealer preferred the brands he sells! Well I said I thought the Pass paired better as well, so not trying to say he’s wrong in this case. Just predictable. Although he would not admit that the M6 sounded bright with the Soulution, and instead blamed it on the amp. It’s to be expected, of course, I’m not naive, but just remember any dealer is VERY biased towards what they sell, so take it with a grain of salt. Now when they comment on two brands that they sell, that is where it can be interesting. Good video though. Interesting despite the inherent bias, which would go for any dealer generally speaking |
Alright I’ll quit screwing around. Serious question for the dealer: At what $$ level do you feel the sonic performance baton passes from integrated amp to separates (let’s say a separate preamp and stereo power amp, not monos)? Assume space not a concern. Just want best SQ for the money. $5k $8k? $10k? $15k? $20k? $30k? |
I’m dropping my mbl prediction - now kinda doubting that those would make sense (ya, I know this is confusing to follow). I actually now think it could be possible that the mystery amps already in WC’s room could already be Gryphon Solo Mephisto (which was part of my initial guess but was targeted for June, not now), either that or my real initial guess of Audio Research. Stay chill, WC. Easier said than done but you’re usually pretty good at it. Techno, I’m no angel either but no need to be difficult just for the sake of it. As I said previously, you should be giddy (or did I say "jolly?") now given your disdain for Wilson Audio and it’s now-3-week absence from the room. Cheer up, dude! You don’t know how long it’ll be until a new Wilson returns, as it inevitably will given that WC likes Wilson so much better than anything else : ) (see, I try to tweak him too sometimes : ), can’t help it) Save your crabiness for when the Wilson returns dude! |
WC had an Accuphase integrated and didn’t like it at all is my recollection. You can find the video on his YT channel. Don’t recall the Accuphase model. By contrast, WC said the Luxman L590AXII is the best amplifier (integrated or otherwise) available that he has had under $12k msrp, and he said that right after reviewing the Pass Labs $12k msrp integrated, whichever one that is (Pass int-250 I think). You can see his video where WC declares the 590AXII one of his top 3 amps for bang for buck (along with m900u and Gryphon Constellation), and his comment on L590AXII being better than anything at $12k or lower msrp came in direct response to me asking him that question on this thread, maybe 80 pages back, haha |
We gonna get round 2 of Mike or has that been scrapped after the blowback? I suppose I started it unintentionally, although I don’t think I made any unreasonable comments -- only generally made the point that dealers will typically always recommend what they sell over what they do not. I don’t think many would dispute that contention. Mike seems like a good guy, so no offense intended, and I enjoyed the first video as I said at the time. But I could understand why he or WC might not want to do that again after what ensued. Yeah I never got why some want to allege nefarious shenanigans without hard evidence here. Just enjoy the ride foks, or if you cannot enjoy then don’t torture yourself by following. Life’s too short. Look at new-Viber. He used to be judgmental and dogmatic and my-brightness-way-or-the-highway but now he’s pleasant or at least even if he still thinks that way doesn’t force it on people anymore (knock on wood). Except I’m still trying to come to grips with his prognostication that my over-the-top diet soda habit will eventually kill me .......... (I think that’s what he said, haha). Sidebar: I think there was a study once where a bunch of lab mice were fed regular soda, diet soda, and water. After a period of time, the waters were healthy, the regulars were fat, and the diets were dead! <gaping mouth shocked look> yeah, I gotta quit....... |
I mean the other side of the coin is that you don’t want conflict-of-interest questions to arise so you have to balance that out. The appeal of your review status is your free-from-influence stated position, and you definitely want to maintain that reputation I’d think. Tweak - tell WC, not me! He’s the one with the bucks and the time/energy to review. Maybe he should get that class D into the Survivor-style Integrated Amp Shootout that I dreamed up for WC and keep nudging him towards |
Haha. Well whether I’m right or wrong I feel like WC has been way too SS focused so would be great to see more tubes. Suncoast dealer mentioned couple times in video he’s a tube guy and I’m thinking that’s probably why he showed up to set it up bc he thought WC might f it up! Haha, only kidding WC. But I mean. Kinda makes sense. WC prolly doesn’t need help lifting any amp or if he does he can pay some dude at his gym $50 to help him. Prolly only reason dealer would need to come is help with installation and configuration and really how many amps would WC need that kind of help with?? Ya, think I mighta nailed this one...... |
Alright I’m changing my amp prediction again based on new information. When I made the Audio Research prediction it was out of the blue, based only on gut feeling of what would be a great pairing (bc WC told us it was sounding amazing- first time he’d had a long listening session in 3 weeks with the M6), even despite knowing WC’s aversion to tubes and how few tube amps he’s had and his often stated preference for solid state. Well then 2 days ago we find out whatever it is he got from Suncoast, who list ARC as a brand they carry on their site ;so I thought, hmm, that just might be correct.......But now I see ARC website currently doesn’t show Suncoast as an authorized ARC dealer and also a current Suncoast advertisement in Absolute Sound where they list their brands that they sell also doesn’t list ARC (so i double-sourced that conclusion, haha). So bottom line I don’t think Suncoast is an ARC dealer so with that new information (assuming I’m correct that ARC not a Suncoast line despite what their site says) well then it can’t be ARC. So my new final answer prediction is VAC, a brand Suncoast does carry and the most similar (hi-end tube) to my original guess. Yes, sticking with a tube guess even though maybe just 3-5% of WC’s amps historically have been tubes. |
Sounds pretty decent. If being critical I think the bass is a little loose (not great control of the Focal woofers) and the top end seems a little lacking compared to previous amps, but probably good for cost, although would love to hear some other top integrated amps like Luxman/Pass/Boulder shootout.
What is the big component in the bottom middle of your rack? |
Regarding the video, I agree that the over-the-top bashing of things is probably better avoided. But on the other hand, by your logic (that only those who have owned gear at that level can sharply criticize elite gear), then that would logically also apply to praising gear so that all of the gushing, incredible laudatory comments for the Wilson Audio, Gryphon and Boulder would be just as invalid or suspect. Why? Because by that logic we wouldn’t know the difference between Boulder/Gryphon and Bryston/Parasound, or between Wilson Audio Alexx/Magico M6 versus Tekton/GTA/Martin Logan 11a/Maggie 20.7. Why is that any different? I don’t necessarily agree with the logic. in other words, I think if you solicit feedback you gotta take the bad with the good. But let me repeat, those just looking to stir up trouble are annoying and I wish they’d stop. At the end of the day, the qualifications one needs are ability to listen and hear differences in presentations. That’s it. Don’t need to be an electrical engineer or understand the amplifier schematics. Just need to listen. Of course, like anything in life, some will be better at it than others. And maybe those who have owned elite gear are better. I doubt it though. Maybe they just have more money. I bet if you ask dealers they will admit that. Regardless, my only point in all of this is that if harsh criticism is invalid unless meeting some high ownership bar then praise from those who similarly don’t meet bar is also invalid |
