Elshout: my journey assesss Amps as of that point of time. For example, when I had the 250.8, I hadn’t tried the Luxman so I didn’t know that the luxman is far superior.
My journey keeps going and going and now im really liking these platinums 500ii ALOT.
As far as what’s creating the bass, well the 1.2kw are certainly part of the formula but they didn’t exactly do the same with the dynaudios in terms of bottom end because the dynaudios don’t drop to 22hz.
Right now, the 1.2s are doing excellent things with my speakers and to be honest I don’t even want to change our amps right now. The synergy and dynamics is outstanding with these. Maybe down the road I’ll try the 585 integrated and see what this does to the sound I’m getting out of the platinums. That said, I don’t have any desire to change out the 1.2s because of the huge power they feed these platinums. I feel these big speakers love all this juice.
We shall see what happens. Maybe I end up trying my gs150 with the reference 6 preamp and see what comes out of that?
im feeling the synergy right now with these speakers and amps. I’m almost afraid to begin to touch things but I know that’s just the nature of my journey so it will be a matter of time before I do it again. |
today i learned that system synergy is really an important element that i haven't gone into much detail about. I just took out the luxman c900u out of the system and plugged in the reference 6 and i feel as if my system took a few steps back in terms of clarity or soundstage depth. It still sounds amazing, but i feel the luxman opened up different layers of sound that are less pronounced on the reference 6.
If i go back to my time with the clx speakers, the reference 6 sounded SPECTACULAR and far better than the luxman. So this indeed is a case of system synergy and what goes with what.
Anyhow, i am almost tempted to buy a second luxman m900u amp and run them both in mono mode along with the c900u. Something tells me that this combination would put me at a level that i may have never experienced. I am on the fence and totally feel like i should do this and go with dual 900u in mono mode which would create 750 watt monos into 8ohms.
Decisions decisions.... |
Sequence: I love the sound of these with 1.2kw monos and the simaudio 740p and I’ll be honest and say it grabs me more than with the reference 6. I don’t find as much synergy with these speakers and reference 6. That said, the Luxman 900u preamp is amazing with these speakers. Things just pop out of the speakers in a crazy way. I am probably going to use it as my reference with these speakers. Im just shocked at how much better these speakers are than the 300ii. Those sounded dull in comparison. I almost can’t believe they share the same tweeter.
One last thing, although I think these are very efficient speakers, they really open up with more power. I tried the Luxman amp and I feel like 300 Watts is too little. The 1.2kw are actually 1600watts !
Has anyone ever biamped these .?????? |
Hmm interesting...
Did you all read the comments on my video? |
Reference 6: outstanding preamp with an amazing bottom end and Highs. The best highs I’ve heard with electrostatics
No52: excellent highs and mids
luxman900u: excellent smooth sound with insane soundstage. Best highs I’ve heard with tweeters. |
My current set up with luxman: - DCS VIVALDI DAC
- DCS VIVALDI UPSAMPLER
- AURENDER N10 MUSIC SERVER
- VALHALLA 2 AES (DUAL) DIGITAL CABLES
- STILL POINT ULTRA SS UNDER DAC AND PREAMP
- ODIN 2 PC ON DAC
- ODIN 1 PC ON UPSAMPLER
- ODIN 1 XLR ON LUXMAN
- ODIN 1 PC ON LUXMAN
- DEDICATED 20A AND 30A OUTLETS
- MERRILL AUDIO SPEAKER CABLES (WAS USING ODIN 1 BEFORE)
- CARDAS CLEAR AUDIO BEYOND XLR WHEN USING PREAMP
- WILSON AUDIO DAW
That said, there is no way the Dag m400s are 4 times or 3 times better than the luxman. Also, please keep in mind i am only using A SINGLE LUXMAN AMP and not 2 in mono configuration which could close the gap significantly. I still stand by my previous comments on the luxman 900U: it is a giant killer and can easily make most people out there feel embarrassed for spending far more money for their amps. I will be releasing a video of the luxman 900u this week connected to the components above so you can all hear it in its full glory (except for the speaker cables, but it is STILL IMPRESSIVE with these cables). I will also give a nice discovery on WHAT made a huge change on the luxman set up which will give you all luxman owners want to grab your checkbooks to chose what i will suggest you should buy. Lastly, i know this is not the amp for everyone because there is no such amp in my opinion. however, if you want to just enjoy, relax, forget about knit picking and analyzing everything single thing about the presentation and you just want to fee seduced by music, THIS IS YOUR AMP. On the other hand, if you are the type that has serious OCD, knit picks on every single thing (for instance, you criticize a woman when she has different color of nail polish on her toes and fingernails) then this is not your amp. This is the amp you can turn on, let it warm up (by the way i have had mine on 24/7 since i got it) and forget about the rest. |
This is all a great discussion guys. I like the input from everyone even if we agree to disagree. Nobody is wrong or right. Why don’t some of you live near me so we can do some real shootouts? Drinks all on me afterwards. No beer though... :)
Mrdecibel: glad you are back in here man.
Techno: thanks for the props above.
Chazzy: man I love your dag 400s. Those are some amazing amps and will always hold a special place in my heart. I can't and won't say anything bad about them because they are incredible.
I would like to do a 900u mono set up and throw it up against the m400s though.
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Chazzy
For sure. I actually thought of doing a live video chat with those of you who are having some down time. We can talk Audio, cars and yes I’ll be open to sharing more interesting stuff that I can’t post for obvious reasons.
If you all are open to doing this one of these evenings like a Friday, or a Saturday night then let’s coordinate it. We can all plan it in advance to block our calendars for an hour or two. |
I also wanted to say that if we do this, everyone is invited to be part of it. I don't hold grudges of any kind. Maybe it is a chance to see each other and get a better feel for each other on camera. I think it would help develop more chemistry (no homo) since all we do is type all day long. Thoughts? |
Awesome. I know ron17 is in too. If we can gather enough people then we can make this happen. |
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The bigger the Wilson, the more difficult it is to place in a room. I was shooting for the alexx but things weren't meant to be so Alexia 2 felt the logical choice.
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hey guys, sorry but with the holidays it has been very busy for me. That said, i did have a chance to connect the mark levinson to the platinums and i did not like what i heard. i found the combination a bit too bright or forward sounding when i cranked it up.
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I just sat down to listen to a few other songs i wanted to hear and wow i can't believe how much this simaudio/mcintosh/monitor audio pl500ii has grown on me.
Yesterday i connected the 585 integrated and although it did sound good, i found it a tad bright to my liking and it lost the depth that i find with the simaudo/mcintosh combo. That said, let's not forget that the difference in horsepower is HUGE between the integrated and the 1.2kws.
That said, this experiment showed me that you can never have too much horsepower. The authority, driver grip, soundstage width is simply hard to dismiss when you go from a massive powerful amp to something that is 1/5 of the power.
I will go on the record and say that i am not a mcintosh fan. I feel their amplifiers have fallen behind the offerings from others. That said, the 1.2kws buy you this:
1. 1200 watts of class ab juice
2. Good looks
3. Great punch when called for
4. No heat of any kind
5. Ability to sell anytime you want
So if you have an outstanding preamp, the 1.2kws sound excellent. I don't care for the mcintosh c1100 since i feel my ref 6 preamp killed it.
Anyhow, I will be receiving a couple of pieces next week (luxman 900u preamp and 900u amp). Yes this will be my THIRD TIME buying this combo and this should already be telling you that it has to be something special if i am buying it for a 3rd time. I have NEVER BOUGHT anything 3 times. |
Interesting adri.
Not sure he understands but in a nutshell, what adri is telling viber is that there’s no way a RCA cable beats an xlr if it is a well designed component that it is being used on. He also is saying he lives in Argentina and has access to superior equipment where he has tested this extensively. |
My apologies
It is the luxman 590ax mk2. |
Alright guys,
i have received my luxman pieces today. I also have the Belcanto black system in route to me and possibly will end up buying the boulder 2060 as well !!
Things are about to get interesting!
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There is nothing wrong with liking an embellished presentation. Beautification is part of some people's preference in their quest to audio Nirvana. I started my journey with the same requirement but then I realized I got tired of the sound or Sonic qualities so I ended up erasing it from my system.
Now that I'm walking the neutral path, it's the more interesting path that can also be the most hated one.
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I am very afraid of my back too... but that boulder 2060 keeps grabbing me and I’ve been thinking a lot about it. Just need to figure out a few things first but that amp might be a game changer. I just need to listen to it first. |
Here's what gryphon has to say about cables and their amplifiers: (could explain the issue with buzzing???) Gryphon’s basic philosophy is one of sonic neutrality and Gryphon amplifiers are very special as they are equipped with an enormous bandwidth. As Gryphon prefers to leave interpretation to the musicians and singers, it is Gryphon’s belief that we don’t need a cable with a particular “sound” of its own to balance or to “equalize” your system. All Gryphon amplifiers are designed and manufactured with an extreme bandwidth and in some cases the wrong choice of speaker cable can become an issue and will create potential problems in the collaboration between the amplifier and the speakers, with the speaker cable as an interactive factor. Gryphon recommends to - Steer away from speaker cables for Gryphon amplifier with a coaxial design, active shielding or special boxes that will add-on different types of filtration. A speaker cable with a coaxial design or with active shielding will in most cases have a much lower bandwidth than the amplifier and therefore the amplifier will be met with too high a capacitance load causing oscillation of the amplifier. There is no need to actively add filtration on an analogue amplifier. It doesn’t serve the final reproduction of the music any good.
- Use speaker cables with a low capacitance and a wide bandwidth in order to match the specs of the amplifier’s bandwidth and output impedance. From Gryphon’s standpoint, there is no need to add more “negative” filtration to the system given their emphasis to have the finest level of tonal balance and neutrality.
Choose your cables with the highest level of attention to the actual parameters of the cable design (e.g. cable geometry, capacitance, bandwidth, insulation, conductor material and connectors) and aim for low capacitance and sonic neutrality. From that standpoint, Gryphon’s own range of interconnects, loudspeaker cables and power cords are used in the development of Gryphon products. Gryphon cables are designed for ultimate neutrality and resolution. They are extremely revealing and will allow the ultimate quality of your Gryphon system or any fine audio components to come through clearly and undiminished. Do give it a try with your Gryphon units and let us know what you think. |
1. Agostino
2. Luxman 590axmk2
3. Gryphon diablo 300
4.Luxman 509
5. Belcanto Black integrated
6. Mark Levinson 585 |
sooooooo i just pulled out the box the luxman 900u amp for the firs time and from a dead cold start with 0 miles on it, i am hearing cleaner, clearer, wider soundstage than the 1.2kw monos. That said, it is NOT AS DYNAMIC as the 1.2kws. This is expected because the 1.2kw monos have more power. |
If you hear the luxman 590mk2 with cardas clear beyond speaker cables and Wilson Daw....you'd swear it's the end of the road ... |
Different sound. It's personal preference. |
Wowww I love your set up. I want to hear those Dynaudios....man, great job with what you’ve done. It looks so neat and organized. Nice panels on the wall. Based on my recollection of Dynaudio and luxman, I GUARANTEE there is massive synergy with what you got. Wow well done sir !
Yep: luxman 900u is ROCKY for sure. It doesn’t get phased by any damn thing. Have other amps bested it in my room ? Yes but there’s a difference between getting edged out and getting smoked. I have never had an amp that smokes the luxman 900u. Not the xs300s, dag m400s, rowland 925s, gryphon, etc etc. Nada. It is bested but not smoked.
One last thing, it is the one amp that wipes out my short term memory when it comes to other amps I've had. Makes me not really miss any of them . |
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Interesting explanation. I almost sent my gryphon in for service but I was told that there is nothing wrong with it based on what you all saw. It is just the combination of cardas and Wilson that creates an environment that makes the Gryphon act up this way. |
I unpacked the luxman combo yesterday and left music playing all night long until just now and it’s just insane how clean, smooth, detailed, deep, wide, and engaging these 2 pieces are. It sounds so HUGE with my platinum 500s.
I tried several set ups:
luxman 900u preamp/ 1.2kw Monos: I liked the sound and it sounds very good overall. Big, more dynamic than with the 900u amp. It is really great at very loud decibels and doesn’t get shouty when cranked up.
simaudio 740p/ luxman 900u amp: very nice and clean sounding. Less dynamic than the set up above but that’s due to less power. That said, it is still quite impressive when using both.
Luxman combo: Gobbs of detail. The cleanest sound out of the different set ups above. The highs just glow and come at you with zero fatigue. Far greater midrange than the other set ups. It sounds very focused and makes just take notice of so much information that your ears never picked up before. This is so intoxicating which leaves you wanting to change nothing else at all. Makes you nervous to even move to try a different cable. Simply lovely.
The take away here is that the luxman combo didn’t make my electrostatics come to life. It may have been because they needed more wattage or even more voltage than a single luxman amp has.
That said, the platinum 500s don’t really need massive juice to get going. I love the synergy im hearing right now.
I can’t think of another set up right now that I like better than this. As some of you know, I’m a BIG PASS LABS fan. I love their stuff but I will be honest and say I don’t miss their heat or sound when I listen to luxman.
As bad as I want to try the boulder 2060, I really don’t want to mess with 270 lbs right now. Maybe I will sell the 1.2kws and get the boulder ? Who knows... I’m on cloud 9 with these pieces right now.
the year is almost over and I think this year I went through about 30 amplifiers. So far, the amps that really left an impression are the pass labs 200.5, pass labs xs150, and the luxman 900u. These are the top 3 amps of 2017 for me. Far superior than any of the rest I’ve owned. |
Thanks Greg. It’s certainly a great joyful sound with luxman. The issue here lies with the acceptance from fellow American audiophiles. Most won’t invest their money in foreign products. This is in fact what makes external offferings become less appealing and for the most part never given a fair shot. My stepfather has a luxman integrates he bought in 1995 and the volume knob finally went out this year. That’s 22 years of flawless performance. What else can you ask for ? Most current audio gear doesn’t come close to this level of reliability.
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Yes I have. You still hear the hum with the music together. |
Thanks Clemente. I appreciate you following my thread. I’ve had a great amount of people message me directly as well and I thank everyone for following my journey. I expect 2018 will put more amplifiers in front of me. |
1236 am:
Dynaudio c4 platinum with the very best components and cables I have is right now blowing me away. HUGE TALL WIDE SOUNDSTAGE. Gryphon with cardas clear beyond speaker cables , dcs and luxman preamp are totally making the Dynaudio their b@tch and really pushing them. I'm super impressed!! Video to come ! |
Some of you had asked me about my thoughts on ayre. I had owned the qb9 dac and it wasn’t anything especial. Then I got feedback from a well known audiophile and he said his pass labs 350.8 nearly equaled his mx twenty Monos which cost 32k retail and he sold them right away. He felt disgusted by ayre and their highly priced components.
My gut feeling is that ayre is overpriced and not worth their asking price by any means. They are charging an arm and a leg and they aren’t anything that would make you be like “oh my god”.
Would I ever try it ? Sure but I won’t pay anything close to their asking price.
This is WHY I have been a fan of pass labs for a very long time and now I am a luxman fan too.
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740p loses to the Luxman 900u but that’s expected. The 740p is amazing for the Money though and if was building a system on a budget then this would be my preamp.
Audio research ref 6 is amazing as well but tubes tend to need to be matched to the right speakers. For example, the best preamp I’ve heard with panels would be the the reference 6. With conventional drivers then I prefer the Luxman.
Pass labs xp30 was great too. |
Tomorrow the belcanto Black arrives at my door. My connection said it will destroy the rest of my set ups by miles. I told him the Luxman combo won’t go anywhere unless something else beats it here in my space so he sent me his set up for me to try and even paid shipping. He said that’s how confident he feels that it will just maul everything I have here.
Well, for 50,000 dollars it better make my Luxman combo sound like a bose stereo.... |
Interesting guys! I have 5 people that are also looking forward to it. 3 are putting money on the Belcanto and 2 on luxman. This will be the best shoot out. Purely refined solid state vs purely refined class d. |
I just installed river on my MacBook. I am currently going through my hard drive which sucks because i would prefer to use tidal, but that apparently isn't possible through jriver.
That said, i certainly hear the instant change in sound from using the ethernet connection.
By the way i had to give my ears a well needed 2 hour rest after listening for hours. I am getting ready to begin another session between both set ups.
Here we go!! |
Ok guys, the initial shootout has begun about 3 hours ago. i made sure i used a sound decibel meter in order to do an apples to apples comparison. Decibel average is 92 db for both systems so both are almost near the same loudness from my listening chair.
First up, the belcanto black using a macbook pro via usb:
Amazing soundstage width and depth. Speakers seem to be larger than life in terms of wall to wall sound they present. Very "clean" sound with lots of "pop" when the song calls for it. I also hear certain details that i never heard before in my music. Vocals are clear, mids are there, bass is there. Nothing is lacking. I am very impressed with the entire presentation and have never heard anything digital sound this good before.
Luxman combo: i used the ps audio direct stream as my source. Immediate sense of smoothness and silkiness with no loss of detail or sparkle. The highs are a tad more refined to my ears. The mids are about dead even and the bass is very close. The belcanto has a tad bigger soundstage.
With that said, this is a very VERY CLOSE race here. I actually have to dig up different material in order to find the differences here which brings me to my next point: if rock is the music selection and you love music to be around 95dbs or so, the belcanto can get just a tad "shouty" but that is not all the time. I love the detail presented by both set ups and their weaknesses and strengths.
The take away from this preliminary shootout is how far class d has come. I mean, i am comparing an outstanding solid state product against a class d product and i am having to pick apart the differences. Granted, we are talking about a 50,000 dollar class d product here. Incredible what i have witnessed here. I still have alot more to listen to before i even decide what my next move will be. i could live happy with either set up to be entirely honest. |
30 min into the 2nd session: i find BOTH to be more similar than different. This time around, i am using my hard drive and i find the luxman having more bottom end. This doesn't mean the bel canto isn't pushing down low. I just find the luxman to have one extra layer of "boom" that i am not picking up on the bel canto.
The mids are again extremely close and similar. The only thing that i occasionally hear is a tad more music in the background of the bel canto. I feel like sometimes there are some instruments that are more obvious to hear on the bel canto from time to time. Instruments that seem to be backstage on the luxman.
The highs are excellent on both, but i have to give the luxman the edge on here. I feel like the highs on ANY class A component (yes the luxman has some class a) are hard to beat and this would be the hardest thing to equal for class d technology.
Right now, it is beyond hard to select a winner. It is still early and i still need to hear much more material. So far i call it a draw based on their strengths and it would be much easier to pick a winner if i only heard a particular kind of music. For example, if classic rock was my main music, lynyrd skynyrd, Ozzy, etc then i would pick the luxman because it does not get too "excited" with the highs and it keeps them at bay which allows the songs to come out smoother and without sounding too hard.
However, if i heard more instruments where there is drum whacks, quick transients, dynamics then i'd select the bel canto because it can just hit each note and keep up with the pace of the music without feeling "out of breath". It is crazy how at this level things become harder and harder to pick apart. It almost becomes "the equipment that sounds best with what you listen to".
Aesthetically speaking, they both look solid and well built. They are just so different yet beautiful to look at. Song after song, it becomes more difficult to choose a winner because right when you think "oh the luxman for sure" then you play the next track and the bel canto blows you away... |
That’s exactly what I’ve come to find out. I will be doing more listening today and will give more feedback. I feel as if Both set ups are so amazing that really nothing sounds bad at all. One doesn’t trump the other. The one thing I could see as an advantage is that with the luxman you have the flexibility of changing out your source to something even better which should elevate its performance. The Belcanto doesn’t really allow you to improve its performance unless you try different power cords, cables etc but you’re pretty much stuck with its dac. I’d love to bring the luxman d08u sacd and do more listening. This would make it more of a fair race because now you’d be using an all luxman set up retailing for 48k vs 50k.
Today I am fully rested and will continue doing more listening so let’s see what I hear today. |
wow, you listen at 55-60db? i don't think i can own a speaker of this caliber if i can only listen at 55-60db. That is almost like no volume for me. There won't be any bass, no oomph, no nothing, but high frequencies and mids. As a matter of fact, i have probably damaged my hearing somewhat from the constant exposure to 87-92 db over the past few years.
This morning i started with the luxman combo. The belcanto will go next in about one hour.
i am starting to get an itch to try the 1.2kws and the audio research ref 6 that has been sitting here on my shelf. Heck, i may even try the mcintosh d150 dac with the 1.2kws to see how it sounds. |
Speaking of the 1.2kws... i just made them join the fun and plugged them in to the luxman 900u preamp and here are my initial impressions:
- Huge soundstage
-things seem to pop from top to bottom and left to right
-Easy, smooth, no fatigue
- Massive bass control
-If i push the loudness button on the preamp, it feels as if the entire system got a turbo charger strapped to it. Insane attack
This is an indication of what massive power reserves do to the sound. Things just pop effortlessly without a hint of strain. I feel as if the tweeters project far greater detail with a 3d effect when i strap the 1.2kws.
Here is what i am feeling so far:
1st Place: Mcintosh 1.2kw/ luxman 900u preamp
2nd Place: Toss up between the full luxman combo and bel canto black
yes, as shocking as it sounds, i find the Mcintosh 1.2kw/luxman combo far more dynamic with huge explosion and attack while remaining at ease regardless of where the volume know is. I can’t believe it, but it is winning me over in all aspects. I feel as if the luxman amp does give the presentation more mids, but it does not open up the sound nearly as wide as the mcintosh 1.2kws do. It could be the discrepancy in power between both amps, but i am really happy i have these puppies on hand so i can see what occurs when i go to higher wattage.
The luxman amp is outstanding in terms of refinement and smoothness, but it so happens that my speakers love the extra current from the 1.2kws. I decided to push the pedal to the metal and went to 100 decibels with the 1.2kws and it is as if the soundstage just gets larger with zero compression.
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Yes indeed. The funny thing is that it doesn’t sound loud with the 1.2s and the luxman preamp. Things just get larger and still remain smooth. Zero harshness. |
I have not but I’d like to |
One day, some people will be able to hear a properly set up mephisto with the right partnering gear (I'm slowly getting there) and they won't be able to listen to a lot of stuff out there ever again. What's interesting and in case you haven't noticed, MOST PEOPLE who have ACTUALLY HEARD IT say nothing but astonishing things about it. Ever wondered why that is ? Those who criticize it are the ones who have never ever ever even seen it in person. Have you all noticed that here ? |
Someone asked me what I thought of the salon 2s since I’ve owned them. My take?
I cant be more honest with you all than to say they are the worst sounding speaker I’ve owned. No bass in my room and my friend who owned the ultima 2s also said he had no bass. Long story short , the platinum 500iis are the best speaker sounding speaker that I’ve had in my room. The only reason why I like them a little more than my clx is because they have full massive bass attack without a sub. The salon 2s are a perfect example of a great marketing plan by revel aka Harman. There’s nothing about them that made me be like Omg wow. As a matter of fact I passed on 2 different deals thrown at me by several of my connections. I know some hearts will be broken by my statement but I don’t like anything about the salon 2s.
The monitor audio platinum 500iis smoke and pulverize the salon 2s by miles. It’s not even a contest. I had almost given up on the monitor audio platinum line until I brought the 500iis home. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest that monitor audio produces.
I also don’t really like sealed speakers because they don’t seem to have the same slam that ported speakers have. Another thing is WHY choose sealed over ported ? You can always plug the ports :)
I also loved the cremonese but I felt my ears preferred panels and then the platinums 500s showed me that there is such thing as a speaker that sounds just like a panel does. The platinums 500iis sound extremely close to an electrostatic but without the drama of having a small sweet spot or hard placement. I don’t see myself getting out of my 500s until either dynaudio releases the new confidence 3 line that will release next December or perhaps a new Revel salon 3 which is said to have berillium midrange drivers.
Again, I speak from my personal experiences here. I give my input because I’ve owned something and not based on what I read. Unfortunately I live in Florida and we have limited exposure to great brands. I wish I lived in Chicago or Michigan or California where I could really get out and try everything. |
Thanks guys. Right now, I’ve decided to find a far superior dac than the ps audio direct stream. I suspect that this will make all the difference in my system and elevate my luxman to even greater levels. I am looking into the luxman d08u and also the chord Dave.
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