Third video -
Definitely #2 for me - no question. Much better balance. Just the first minute of the first song - it seems obvious to me - the guitar notes sound clearer and more balanced.
Dave
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Catching up....regarding the second video....
#2 for me. As I was listening to #1, especially the second song, I thought it seemed a little excessive in the upper frequencies, although it did sound very good. The first song on #1 started out really nice and sounded good. But, #2 seems to be clearer and more balanced in the presentation for me.
Dave |
chazzzy007,
My scorecard is the reverse of yours - I felt DAC #1 lacked emotion. I think it comes down to preferences, rather than absolutes. It's interesting though to see how the voting goes and what the majority prefer.
Dave
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chazzz007,
"To my ears DAC #1 presents almost precisely like I’ve heard dCS.
Therefore #2 must be MSB which surprises me. Tone wise the MSB that I’ve
heard is richer and lusher sounding while sharing the other attributes
I’ve described in this thread."
I'm wondering if the silver tuning bullets in the SR cables might be throwing things off for you a little bit? I am hoping WC does comparisons of the silver bullets vs gold bullets in the SR cables.
Dave
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WC,
Interesting about the shootouts. Perhaps just one video shootout for the comparison, and then a results video? If that ends up working, then you could do things like the silver vs. gold bullets, followed by a results video.
Perhaps there are folks out there that just want to be told what's best and why, rather than hearing for themselves. I know some guys that don't want to watch full sporting events, just give them the results/highlights and they're happy.
Either way, I will still follow your journey.
Dave
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WC,
Interesting results - shows that our listening on youtube is definitely different than what you are hearing in the room. Interesting that you mention the MSB to be warmer, yet folks feel the YT presentation showed the MSB to be brighter. I think this is why it's so important to get the video with your opinion of what's happening in the room.
Even though MSB won most of the categories, I will agree with Kren's previous prediction that the DCS is what will eventually remain.
Dave
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chazzzy007,
Like kren0006, I also used headphones. Be careful with turning assumptions into conclusions.
And, kren0006 made an interesting point that viber6 preferred #1, which had less clarity according to WC.
Dave
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chazzzy007 made a conclusion out of an assumption - and it was incorrect on both parts (me and kren0006). Rather than doing the decent/humble thing, like admit he was wrong and move on, he's asking for our equipment list? Even if I had the absolute worst headphone setup in the world, he's still incorrect regarding the assumption/conclusion that he had - nothing is going to change that.
Sorry, but this thread isn't about this at all. Let's get back to enjoying WC's journey - it's a privilege to be able to hear these setups, get WC's opinion, and be able to share opinions on what we hear and prefer.
Thanks WC for all of your work and efforts.
Dave
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chazzzy007,
My post pointed out the lack of a decent/humble response from you, and you are continuing on that path - first with requesting equipment lists, and now with the sensitivity thing.
What' you are not understanding is that this not about sensitivity - it's about your character. Your posts of avoidance and lack of decency/humility speak for themselves - nothing to add.
Dave
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chazzzy007 - I will no longer comment to you on this subject. If you want to continue then PM me. There's no need for this public display in WC's thread.
Please - let's get back to WC's journey.
Dave
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Congrats on the 725! This is the fun of being on this journey with you WC - getting to hear equipment that I otherwise would never have a chance to hear.
Dave
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WC,
Speaking of line conditioner, have you ever done a comparison of line conditioners? I know you’ve had the Audioquest Niagara and the Shunyata Denali/Everest. Perhaps a video with your opinion on what they contribute and what they take away (if anything) and how they compare? Have you had the SR PowerCell?
Dave |
How about an SR PowerCell? You have a bunch of SR stuff, so I'm surprised you do not have a PowerCell.
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Good point WC regarding synergy. Would the PowerCell work as well with other brands of PC's?
Dave
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For me, either WC prefers different sonics than I do, or I'm just not hearing what WC is hearing. I'm sure some will love it, including viber6.
Dave
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I don't have a guess on the components coming next week - kren0006 could be completely right about it. I've heard Nagra components only once in person and was not impressed - I would use Jay's word - "meh". Of course, that was years ago and things can change. After all, the Boulder components definitely improved.
Dave
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I was going to guess Boulder 3000 series, however, WC has had Boulder in his room this past year, and he seems to be hinting to something different.
Dave
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I hope you are right viber6 - it would be great to bring the Block monos back to see how they do with the equipment WC has now.
Dave
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kren0006 is often right. Still, I will take a stab at it - could it be Goldmund amps and preamp?
Dave
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I think the amount of clarity we want to hear is definitely a preference for each person. For example, if someone plays a guitar 20 feet from me, and then they play again 10 feet from me, I will hear more. If I put my ear within 6 inches of the guitar, I will definitely hear more than I did before. For some folks, that extra clarity will be amazing. If getting within 2 inches, it might be even more amazing for them.
For myself though, there's a balance between what "I" perceive as music and what is a whole lot of clarity. Some would prefer that 20 foot distance and the overall sound from there, and some would die for that 2 inch distance and the overall sound from there. I am between the two - probably 10 feet or even 6 feet. I think I would get tired of hearing all that goes on from the 2 inch distance - that's just me :-)
Dave
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I didn't like Nagra when I heard it, but that was a while back and they could have improved since then. For me, the sound was blah (a word I get from WC :-)
Dave
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Mystery preamp sounds pretty good so far - like you said, no brightness.
Dave
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Thanks for sharing your music WC - good stuff!
Dave
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I think it's both interesting and indicative that WC did not include Pass Labs in his list of amplifier brands that have impressed him. Ironic also, because he's currently doing a few videos on Pass Labs. I think we already know the bottom line, before even watching the videos (I have not watched Part 1 as of yet), because Pass Labs did not make his list.
I understand that WC might not like the heat, not sure how he feels about the form factor (2 blocks per side in some cases), and he's mentioned how it takes a long while for them to sound their best.
Still, I am surprised that the Xs amps did not make it in the list. It would be interesting to drop in the Xs amps with the current set of speakers, cabling, etc. Probably won't happen, but it would be interesting.
Dave
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Just a quick note - I guess I'm not surprised based upon all factors considered with amplifiers that Pass Labs Xs did not make the list. However, if sonics was the only criteria, then I wonder if it would have made the list.
Dave
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WC,
You list Dan Agostino as one of amplifier brands that impress you. Ironically, after I watched your video on the negatives of Pass Labs, the next video that played was the "Pass Labs xs 300s vs Dan D Agostino M400s verdict". Here, you clearly state that the Xs 300s are more your kind of amplifier and what you would pick between the two.
I'm guessing that's more from a sonic perspective, which is why I was wondering if the Xs 300s would make the list, if it was based on sonics alone. Obviously the heat and the warm up time are annoying for you, but if just looking at sonics, they seem to rate well.
Dave
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aolmrd1241,
In previous posts, it was admitted that riaa does WC's dirty work, because WC does not want to have that kind of conflict with other posters.
Dave
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Looking forward to it!
Dave |
I saw the below quote on another site (for car audio), and I thought it would be fun for sharing on a Friday - it is a quote from Alan Parsons:
"Audiophiles don’t use their equipment to listen to your music.Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."
Have a great Friday and weekend.
Dave |
X3 - agreed. Besides, I don't care about any amp brand, I was just trying to figure out the logic of WC's preferences. Moving on...
Dave
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OK, thanks WC. Just trying to nail it down. 4 radiators would not be desired by some folks for sure. So, if I have this correct....according to you:
Pass Labs makes mid Fi products, but DD does not. The Xs is better sonically than the DD, but the Xs is still considered mid Fi.
Still does not make sense to me, but I'm thinking that's the best I will get from you.
Thanks,Dave
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WC,
I think you did a great job in your video of covering the pros/cons of Pass Labs from your perspective. I think folks who love Pass Labs are accepting of the heat, warmup time, etc, in exchange for the sonics they treasure from Pass Labs.
However, for me, I'm left a little confused as to your description of the Pass Labs sonics, because you generalized across all Pass Lab products. The reason it's confusing for me is due to your previous time with the Xs amps, which seemed to really impress you. In your video of the Xs vs the Dan D'Agostino amps, you said the Xs is more the type of sound you prefer, and the Xs was the winner. You listed the DD's as one of your favorite amp brands, so why would not the Xs be included as well?
I've mentioned this a couple of times now in recent pages, and there's not been any response. Almost seems like an intentional avoidance of the subject, at least that's how it's hitting me (not necessarily your intention at all :-)
Dave
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Totally understand the analogies. However, that being the case, then how is it that the DD makes the favorite amp list and not the Xs amps - which you liked better? That's where it gets confusing and where the logic of the analogy gets broken...
Dave
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If it's about one brand amp/preamp vs another brand amp/preamp, that is a different thing than just comparing one amp to another with the same preamp. No worries. Looking forward to what's to come.
Dave
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Thanks for the points you made. I'm not sure it's always the case though. I think WC had the Alexx with Boulder electronics, and I'm not sure if he's surpassed that yet in listening to the videos. Yes, the current Wilson that WC owns has the brilliant HF that is mentioned by viber6, and in some folks minds that makes it better. For me, I have not yet heard a video of WC's with the XLF that surpasses the videos of the Alexx with the Boulder electronics. Perhaps it's just my preferences and/or perhaps being in the room would make me feel differently.
Dave
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logydoghan,
So, I'm not saying that I think Alexx straight up sounds better than XLF. I'm including amplification in the picture. I'm saying that, for me, WC's videos of the Alexx with Boulder electronics is better than the XLF with lesser electronics. I'm not sure one can just get the bigger and more expensive speakers and call it a day.
However, that's just videos. It's great to get WC's feedback, because he's actually in the room and can give us all a better idea of the true sonics.
Dave
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Weren't you going to try an SR Powercell? I'm guessing Nordost might not have synergy with the XLF.
Dave
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I think that this is WC's thread and "his" choices of what he wants to try - not our choices.
And, as WC mentioned, he doesn't mind suggestions, but he definitely indicated a preference to go just one round with these things and not to have these things come back over and over again. To me, anything outside of that is disrespect for the OP - for WC.
Dave
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WC,
Do you think the lack of a power conditioner is helping the rock music to sound more like it should sound? A lot of times, power conditioners seem to do lose some of this type of sound, even though there are some benefits to what they do. It will be interesting to see if the SR Powercell allows you to keep the raw sonics.Thanks for the good music!
Dave
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WC,
Once you get the entire list, it might be good to create a spreadsheet or something, and then keep it updated. This might also help with the Consulting that you do, so that you can refer to it.
Dave
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I gave you homework?
The list looks pretty good.
Dave
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I wonder where Bock Audio will end up? It's been a while since WC had those.
Dave
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Yes, sorry, Block Audio :-)
Thanks willgolf,
Dave
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I agree somewhat with jetter - nice messages about life, but not sure I understand your "agenda" here, with continual discussion on upgrades that you do, as well as this new technology which you might or might not have something to do with??
WC has basically (and nicely) asked that we keep this thread in line with its title. He's also made a generous offer to showcase lower priced equipment against higher priced equipment. All of that is in line with the title of this thread.
Your new technology sounds like it could be interesting - and I'm open minded to it. I would follow a thread on that, if you opened a separate one.
Dave
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A person who plays a violin is used to hearing it at a very close range - inches, instead of feet. The audience is never that close, even in an intimate setting. So, I can understand where an instrument player, like a violinist, might prefer sonics that more closely resemble what they are used to hearing - closeness and extreme clarity.
Anyone else might prefer sonics that resemble the sound from the distance of an audience - some prefer what is heard from more upfront/intimate seating and others prefer a little further back.
So, I would not say that sonics from the audience perspective are "veiled" necessarily - because they can be very accurate for that specific location - taking into account the hall, the folks in their seats, the materials in the room, etc.
Even studio recordings might have certain amounts of effects and EQ applied - so sonic accuracy would reflect the intent of the recording.
Anyway, looking forward to seeing what WC has cooking :-)
Dave
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viber6,
I understand the logic you are presenting, however, I don’t think we can say absolutely that recordings are always made with microphone close up. Even if that were to be the case, the engineer can always add echo/reverb/eq, etc, and the engineer can also have instruments at different volumes from each other - the end result is the desired effect from the engineer, not an absolute isolated/raw recording of an instrument from up close. I agree with what logydoghan mentioned:
"At the end of day, when we listen to music we just want to hear what we like. "
Because recordings have an Engineers/Artists touch on them, accuracy, when listening to recordings on audio systems, is in the eye (ear/heart/brain) of the beholder.
Dave
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And, we still want to "see" this on your channel - we did get to hear it though :-)
Dave
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ron17,
I pretty much agree with what you said about WC. I think it's important though to point out that WC's ratings of amps - top tier, middle, bottom, etc utilize multiple criteria. Pass Labs, for example is in the middle and not top tier, because in addition to sonics, WC takes into consideration the form factor, the heat, the time to warm up, and the lack of new technology - all hits against Pass Labs.
If WC based the ratings upon sonics only, then the Xs300's would be in the top tier based upon the logic that he prefers the sound quality of the Xs300's over another top tier amp. It would be interesting if WC decided to also provide ratings based upon sonics only - some folks might like to know that. Using Pass Labs as an example, the overall placement for the brand is "middle", but for sonics only, the Xs300's placement is "top tier".
For myself though, I'm glad that WC has all of that criteria and is sharing all of that information - it's invaluable and much appreciated.
Dave
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kren0006,
Thanks for the list. The only statements from WC that are confusing to me:
1) Luxman is the top of MIDDLE GROUP
2) Merrill could probably be the last one in the TOP GROUP. So, #2 would supposedly put Merrill ahead of the Luxman, but he says Luxman is the top one.
Anyway, just trying to figure out those two statements.
Dave |
Thanks WC for the clarification on Luxman vs Merrill. That's really interesting that Class D is sitting at the top of the MIDDLE GROUP and nearly in the TOP GROUP. That says a lot about what Merrill has done with their amps.
Dave
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