My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by kren0006

Right on! Sorry. I’m actually making a concerted effort to try to be nicer, haha, sigh.....
I guess that is one of the things that makes the hobby so fun - that everyone hears so differently and like so many different things
Ya, that's true.  But sounds like it was more people abusing him about it.  WC usually doesn't get that fired up about anything
I encourage all here to tune into the livestream tonight. The last impromptu one was quite entertaining. I just happened to be glancing at my phone last time when the notification popped up, dumb luck.

If you are wondering which one is WC on the livestream, he’s the one who looks like a slightly scaled down version of The Rock.

I tried to log in but Google logins and I don’t get along too well it seems, so I just followed and watch the others ask the questions.

WC, one tip, and you did a pretty good job of this last time, but before you answer a question please repeat what the question was, because that way it isn’t as confusing and sometimes the questions flash across 30 seconds before you get to them and there are another 2-3 in between so not always clear if you don’t repeat question, thx.

Well 2020 has been a f’d up year for everyone and here I am defending Viber (imagine that!). To all who get annoyed with his repetitive shtick, i’d give the same advice others gave me when I used to fly off handle at his wild contentions -- just take it with a major grain of salt, or skip over it if it bothers you. And Viber, don’t be so pushy with your opinions - you’ve gotten much better in that regard. For me when he talked about losing his father (something I’ll probably also be dealing with in the next 10 years and will be very hard) it made me see a different side of him and now I try to not get so worked up when he goes off the deep end like saying Rane and Tekton is better than Alexx - damn, 2020 is f’d up!!!
There are probably some who thought you'd immediately sell the Alexx after hearing Tekton, haha.

Oh well, relax dude.  Don't get so worked up about it.  People are dumb.  Gonna come with the territory I suppose.
WC, are you going to tell us whether or not the Tekton’s beat the Dyn C4?

Quite a gap in ownership time and different components but I assume you can factor all that and make some sort of comparison
LOL didn’t intend to put you on the spot but I guess that answer in itself is pretty revealing, haha

mrdecibel is right on.  Base audio takes on real world experience and actually having tried things with same components or at least very similar components, not merely on theory or on how you wish the world ran. 

If you are not going to do that, at a minimum don't misrepresent those (like WC) who have done the trials, or continually tell him he's wrong about something he's done and you haven't.

Oh yeah, good catch. I meant Boulder/SR is what I thought the best and that is also what WC said. Typo on my part with that post of mine.

After WC’s 2021 list I was gonna ask what he had planned for the second half of 2021??? haha, just kidding. Hope it all works out - sounds great

"When people add their preamp, they are in effect using TWO preamps in tandem. This is true at all price levels. The laws of physics don’t change with money spent."

Viber’s comment shows his lack of understanding, because almost all quality dacs with volume controls have the option to bypass the variable output circuit of the dac and output fixed volume. So it is NOT "two preamps in tandem," it is instead bypassing the inferior preamp of the dac for the superior preamp of the quality preamp.

So instead of being "true at all price levels," as Viber claims, it is not true at any of the quality price levels (which this thread concerns), though perhaps at Viber’s level it may apply, I don’t know. As as to his talk about laws of physics, because he doesn’t have his facts straight on one preamp versus two, that statement should also be ignored.

None of the above is intended to be presented in a disparaging way, but is necessary to correct Viber’s misinformation regarding preamps.

 

Changing gears, looks like my Gryphon guess for speakers was wrong.  I suppose I will guess Focal at this point

What were those black components on the floor that the cables were sitting on in latest video?  Did I miss something?

Haha, well that (statement about possibly becoming a Gryphon dealer) was something you mentioned as a possibility here on this thread as the reason why you didn’t reveal the mystery amps because you wanted to remain neutral at that time. I wouldn’t have just dreamed that up on my own

Ha, those were just the boxes, lol. Looked like cables on top of some new addition black components.

I wonder if dCS Vivaldi is coming back? With the Boulder tandem and Wilson Alexx, Rossini is the current weak link I think.


Separate question: WC, do you subscribe to the theory that digital cables are best at 1.5m for reflection purposes, etc.? Can’t recall where I read that, but I’ve seen it out there. What length is your digital cable from the external clock to Rossini?

You present statements as facts (“laws of physics”) that are woefully misinformed. I simply point it out.
 

Because you didn’t seem to know that dacs had fixed and variable out options, I said I’m not sure if the dacs you’ve used had those options (because if they had I’d think you’d have known that)

Is it wrong to put such isolation components directly under the actual footers of the amps? 

In general, is what I'm asking, not in this specific case, where here the amp is too big for the stand so that the footers aren't fully on the stand platform. 

I understand in this case the amps are too big for the stands, so that is one reason WC has the isolation components away from the footers of the amp.
Random Suggestion:

WC, if you have a gym and bench in your house, it would be kickass to get a couple old 135 lb mono amps, bore holes through them, weld a bar to each, and use it for bench pressing.

An image of you knocking out a rep could be your home page for your channel. Maybe change title to Jay’s Audio Gym. 6-plate Amp Analysis. 

Anyway, random thought for the day....
I thought Presentation #1 was much more dynamic and 3D sounding.  Presentation #2 was less dynamic, sounded compressed, and more 2D.

Don't have a guess as to which was which (footers or not, since I've never heard such footers before), but I prefer Presentation #1.
Well the odds of correctly guessing are very low given the number of amps you’ve had, but it sounded like the Simaudio to me......

Sure seems like everyone shares the same opinion of you know who. Hilarious to read the denials of the clear consensus and pleas for relevance, well sad actually

haha, yeah I figured there was more to the story than we knew.

When you think about it though, it isn't really surprising that manufacturers don't want you to review.  Why would they when they can go old school and get a sweetheart review by magazines?


Just keep giving the honest opinions.  That is what matters.
Kinda disappointed in myself for not being able to guess that the new amps are D'agostino.  I think you slightly misled (just a bit) by saying "new amplifier" (which implies stereo) so I was focused on stereo amps that you've had, not monos.  


But when I heard the teaser video I wasn't so impressed by the sound quality and especially the noticeable reduction in bass.  Should have known then it was D'Ag.  Darn it.  My streak is broken.


Constructive criticism: I think you are getting a little too hung up on manufacturers supposedly not wanting you to review, and publicly discussing it and warning them, etc.  Makes it sound like you have a score to settle that will affect your objectivity.  You even said you will make their stuff sound bad, or something to that effect.  Not needed if your calling card is unbiased reviews. 


Reading between the lines I almost think the D'Ag might be one of those - let's see.  I myself never thought D'Ag (stereo amp, monos, or preamp) sounded great the first time around (in fact I can't remember myself ever thinking any of them won a shootout on your channel against anything you put them up against (Luxman, Merrill, Ayre, Gryphon, Audio Research, Simaudio if that was there at time, can't recall) - should have kept the JC1+ maybe that a good matchup??).


Anyway, the live chat was fun and interesting as always.  
SF doesn't really seem like a speaker you'd like???  Too laid back??

What about Rockport?  I suppose it is all about opportunity and what you have access to at a given time, so that is something none of us know.

He said it was a foreign speaker so can’t be Rockport and he said mainstream brand so probably not Kharma. Gotta be Focal

Sell the D’Ag and Mephisto and Gryphon Pre and Rossini and clock. Get the ARC 750 latest version like you talked about on the chat and Ref 10. Then get the best DAC you can - Vivaldi or whatever. Then you will have the best balance. I think that could work out close to an even financial swap maybe??

Top of line Boulder and top of line Audio Research, with top of line dCS. That would be something else

Hey, you asked .....  That's what I'd do if money were no object, relatively speaking.
Let me clarify. I don’t mean loss of transparency in the overall sound. That will likely be enhanced because the mids and highs will actually sound better with subwoofers. So there is that, and that’s why I myself would do it.

Also, I am not knocking class D or especially subwoofer class D. Just stating a fact that REL subs use class D.

But what will be lost to a degree if subs are added is the ability to entirely focus on the full range performance of the amps ( Boulder, Mephisto, Dag, etc) because there are now more amplifier cooks in the kitchen, rather than just one. That’s what I meant.

If one’s primary purpose is to rate amplifiers even at the expense of the best possible sound, then I can understand why WC doesn’t want subs
I agree with the subwoofer recommenders. It is undeniable that if even two (let alone four) top RELs were added that WC’s system would sound better.

But if he doesn’t want to go there that’s his prerogative. For example, WC’s main deal is reviewing amplifiers. If he were to add subs, he is in some sense losing some transparency into amplifier performance because the subs’ class D amplifiers kick in.

So there are valid reasons for either approach.
If it were me, hell yeah I’d add the subs!  Amplifier review purity be damned I just want the best sound!

Well technically I had guessed Gryphon before WC gave the 5 choices were presented, but at that point then yeah, I knew it had to be Focal.

The last many times that WC has moved from Wilson to another speaker, he hasn't enjoyed the experience and typically ends up making a lot of excuses for the speaker as to why it isn't as good as he's used to or why he isn't enjoying the music as much.  Hopefully that'll change with this one - certainly no lack of quality supporting cast this time (Mephisto, VAC, Soulution, MSB, Taiko, ...).

Finally got a chance to listen to the D'Agostino video.  Not bad, but didn't have the bass control of the Alexx woofers that the Boulders or Mephisto did.  Little looser with the Momentums I thought.  Also less resolution in the treble vs Boulder.  At least that's the way I'm hearing it.
Well played. Admirable restraint, but correct response, as to critical post a few back
Cool! It’s been forever since you had Pass monoblocks - since the XS300’s I think, which way back when were your #1 favorite amp you had owned to that point.

Last Pass you had was the INT250 I think that only lasted a couple days - you seemed to be disappointed that the $9k Luxman L590AXii beat the INT250 (according to what you told us) which was 33% higher msrp than the Luxman.

Maybe the 60.8 will beat out the Momentums in some areas ?? Should be fun. Good work!

I have my guess as to which was tubes and which was SS, but I’m going to keep that a secret, as well as the reasons for my preferred presentation. But I definitely preferred presentation #2.

Definitely, at least two.

Reasons:
1) Like you said, different amps have different strengths, and great to have two for comparison sake.
2) In my case, I have one as a winter amp that really pumps out heat, and a class D for summer use that runs cool and provides a change of pace. Spring/Fall whatever I’m in mood for.
3) Especially nice in your case with one set of monoblocks and one single-chassis (I’d call Mephisto stereo but don’t want to get techno going - either way, single-chassis). Provides positioning and aesthetic flexiiblity - stand options.
4) Amps are your deal. No brainer to keep at least two stalwarts, and rotate in wannabes like the D’Ag.
5) It ain’t a "lab" if you only keep one : )
Wilson Audio announced a new and improved Alexx to be released in March:  AlexxV

I also believe that Presentation 1 is tubes and Presentation 2 is solid state. Yes, agree with greyhound that everything does sound more polite and less muscular & dynamic than with the Wilson but that isn’t surprising at all - exactly same result as when he had the previous Focal and Wilson in room at same time  a year plus ago.

Agree with Viber that bass is a bit tubby with Presentation 1 and tighter with 2. Didn’t necessarily hear major treble differences between the two presentations - difference for me was the bass.

Looking forward to next vid

Interesting on previous video. I preferred presentation #1. Heard more detail there and also thought more musical, and by musical I mean the timbre of instruments sounds closer to me - kinda paradoxical I guess but that’s what I heard. Also thought better soundstage with #1.  Looks like I'm the first vote for #1 on this thread

I honestly don’t care one way or the other which I end up preferring. I do hope I’m consistent in my choices between videos (because if not then what have I really learned?), but if not so be it

Certainly possible, but if m hoping I consistently prefer one or the other 

Nope, hadn't read those until now, but looks like Gryphon the clear winner among YT comments also - probably 3to1 or 4to1 on informal quick look

Well I don’t think anyone is saying this is a landslide either way (at least on this thread, I didn’t read YT comments), which is different from the Rouge v Gryphon trial where myself and Paul and others, and most importantly WC, said not even close. (that is not a rip on the Rouge; the trial should not have been close based on hugely different costs).

 

With both trials I didn't spend exhaustive time listening.  Two listens at most to any video and just focused on the trait I found most disparate between the presentations - bass quality here in this trial; cohensiveness, and overall togetherness with the earlier trial.  I don't have time to devote to a treatise, haha (not that anyone would care anyway)

Video 3 is toughest for me. I didn’t have a preference on initial listen. Will need to do again.

Ha, I don’t think he’d do that play same setup for both 1 and 2. That would just piss people off, haha, and make people not take him seriously.

 

Edit: Tubby bass is with #2 this time. I pick #1 here on third video.

Video 1: #2 is better, IMO.

Video 2: #2 is better, IMO.

Video 3: #1 is better, IMO.

Don’t care which is which, but I’ll be disappointed in myself if I cross-selected between the two systems. Hoping I have a clear preference one way or other from a "take something from this exercise" perspective.

 

Editx2: Perhaps I wouldn’t be disappointed in myself if it turns out I cross-selected, because I guess that would just show I prefer different systems for different types of music, which is plausible, but I guess I’d hope that I’d find one system superior in all facets - that would be preferable to me anyway

Cool.  Even though Ron and I are on different sides of the presentations, we agree as to order perhaps being same on first two vids and different on third.  I suppose that's under the assumption that we'd each prefer same electronics across the three songs.  Will be interesting to see the reveal results.

I actually think the opposite.  I suspect that for videos 1 and 2, presentation 2 was SS, and for video 3, presentation 1 was SS.  That's my guess anyway.  But if it's the opposite and it is tubes that I chose (assuming I did not cross-select, which is big assumption, though we now have three thinking Vids 1 and 2 were same order, switched on vid 3) then I think I will be even more happy because I'd actually love to choose tubes over SS, just don't think that's the way it will roll

Guess it wasn’t two years ago, but I made this prediction about WC on 12/21/2020 in this thread:

“Analog seems like a natural progression.  Maybe not 2021...2022 probably more likely.  He will say he has no interest at this time, and I believe him...........for now.”

I wanna see a shootout between Pass XA60.8 vs. D'Agostino m400.  Pass at 20% msrp of m400 can beat it???  Let us see head2head!!!