WC,
When I mention a step backwards, I am comparing the 60.8s running the Alexx vs the new speaker. What comprises the $160K in electronics that is missing? Is it just the Boulder preamp that is missing?
Dave
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WC,
Integrated shootout should be fun! While you have the 60.8s there, it would be cool to use the preamp of your integrateds to feed the 60.8s, just for comparison. That way the 60.8s get some sort of preamp, instead of just being fed from the Rossini. You could probably also compare the preamp section of the two integrateds.
Dave
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Could have also ordered the speaker he wanted, and during the 4-5 months of wait time, bring in some lesser expensive speakers and have some rounds with those.
Or, perhaps there's something to having back to back high dollar speakers, without a bunch of between time, but we still can't really compare because the electronics have changed so much.
Or, perhaps, he thinks it's a risk to not have a high dollar speaker for a longer period of time - possibly losing his following.
Still, I think that having some popular less expensive speakers would have still had a nice following. I think he could still make it different from anyone else out there (some props for you WC :-)
For myself, I enjoy whatever he does and whatever he decides after all of the suggestions, etc. Looking forward to hearing more of the M6.
Dave
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cycles2,
I don't have a Boulder integrated - or any other integrated.
Dave
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WC,Looks like you're having fun with all of the equipment. We finally get to see how Soulution compares to some of the others.
Dave
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"I don't really want to hear from the person who has not spent time with the item (and again this is no disrespect). "
Well, that might apply to most of us here. Should we not comment then on what we hear in your videos? Is your intention to limit our comments so that we don't make comparisons between speaker brands, based upon what we hear in your videos?
Dave
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WC - I see what you mean, when you described the system in a previous video. It does sound really good.
Dave
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WC,
There’s a few comments about the sound being sterile. I liked the sound - I thought it was clear, but not sterile. If anything, the first song did not impress me as much (perhaps closest to sounding somewhat blah or sterile?), but the rest of it sounded really good - seemed to get better as the video went on.
Dave
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@deludedaudiophile
"Digital and vinyl versions are mastered differently. They can't be compared."
Absolutely they should be compared - at least, from the standpoint of whether one would prefer vinyl or digital (or both). All variables are important - the differing equipment, the media, the mastering, etc. Perhaps someone will prefer digital, because they prefer the way it's mastered, regardless of the other variables. Another person might not be particular about the mastering, but would base their preference on how digital sounds vs analog. Everyone's different.
Dave
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Typically, I like the sound of Pass Labs electronics. Previous XA60.8 videos with the Wilson's sounded decent to me. However, comparing Pass Labs to Soulution on the M6, I am definitely preferring the Soulution.
Dave
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faxer,
It's nice to offer your showroom, however, for me, it would not be the same as having the speakers in my own room. Not sure how WC feels about that.
Dave
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Never mind kren0006 :-)
Dave
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WC,
Do you still use the SR ground products and platform products, or are those completely gone now?
Dave
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kren0006,
You were right again!!
Dave
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kren0006,
I agree on the VAC guess - you will probably be right - again :-)
Dave
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Sounds pretty good WC. Couple of questions:
1) what platform is it sitting on? I'm guessing it's not nearly as good as what your monos sit on, so that will probably make a difference.
2) Does yours have the digital option (DAC) installed? If so, will you be trying that out as well?
Thanks,
Dave
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I noticed both here and on yt that for folks who are mentioning bright or lacking bass or midrange, WC is telling them to do better than listening on their phone.
I don't think WC is trying to upset folks with those comments - what that tells me is that WC is not hearing that at all "in person". And, keep in mind, WC loves bass, so if it was lacking bass, I'm sure we would hear about it from him.
Dave
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I agree with the logic that kren0006 presented - makes sense. I think it’s important for WC to differentiate between :
a. his doing videos on equipment, including comparisons, and asking for comments and thoughts from folks who have never owned the equipment and/or never heard the equipment in person - only heard via youtube on whatever equipment they use to listen to it.
vs.
b. the point(s)he is making in this video
I agree that over-the-top bashing is wrong, but when asking for opinions based upon youtube videos, seems like it should be fair game for comments. That’s why I mentioned that it’s ultimately great to get WC’s opinion - the opinion of the person in the room with the equipment.
A quick perspective....while this is WC’s journey with the equipment - in the room, it’s also our journey with this combination of equipment via videos - it might well be the closest any of us get to that kind of experience.
Dave
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No worries kren0006 - you still have an outstanding overall track record. |
WC,
Just listened to the video - sounds good! The last song did not impress me as much though for some reason.
Dave
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inna,
The R&D (that you included) is where a larger cost can be incurred. I think you are probably grossly underestimating that.
Dave
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The comments on that Borresen video were super positive, but it didn't sound that great to me.
Dave
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I agree that the Kharma setup sounds better than WC's current setup with the m6. However, like he mentioned, a bit of a difference in electronics.
This brings back the question - which is better:
1) Less expensive electronics + more expensive speakers
2) More expensive electronics + less expensive speakers
I'm sure it depends upon the speakers and the electronics being used. However, so far, we seem to have two cases that support #2:
a. Wilson setup > Magico setups
b. Kharma setup > Magico setups
Either that, or folks just don't prefer the Magico overall. We will definitely find out more, once WC brings in more expensive electronics to try with the Magicos.
Dave
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WC,
Tidal vs QOBUZ - you bet, would love to see how your system can distinguish the differences.
Dave
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I would agree inna. Nice sounding bookshelf speakers.
Dave
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Sounded like you said VAC integrated, rather than BAT integrated for that last system on your video. Might be my poor headphones too :-)
Dave
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@willgolf
And then there's folks like me who have crazy curiosity and love and enjoy what WC is doing. Even though I am no longer into two channel (HT only now), I'm still here. I also like watching videos of Porsche vs Corvettes and other cars too. I guess I'm a curious comparison type of guy.
Dave
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WC,
You just can't win - there's always some who are not satisfied. If you play the same songs, then some folks want new ones, and vise-versa. If you play with expensive components, you have folks complaining that you aren't playing with lower priced components, and then when you actually do that (like now), then you get folks who complain that you are not using expensive components. Not enough break in for some folks, however, if you don't get new stuff to play with, then you get complaints then too.
Can't folks just enjoy your journey without complaining?
:-)
Dave
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inna,
This was an opportunity to either recognize what was pointed out to you regarding your previous posts or to go the other direction and double-down. In this case, I think you triple-downed. Your post might eventually be reported and removed, but for now, it serves as confirmation of your tone and behavior.
Dave
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There's a new Xs preamp? Did they upgrade it?
Dave
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I’d actually be curious to see what WC thinks about that :
- does he perceive that the M6 has twice the resolution?
- does he think that you can’t tell much with the Wilson?
- does he think the Wilson is consistently confused?
- does he think the Wilson is not for critical listing (listening) and maybe for a fun party?
Dave
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That explains why I perceived bass issues when I was listening to the video and thought it might be my headphones. Instead, it was just loose bass.
Dave
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That's a good guess kren0006. I doubt WC would be getting something like CH Precision (10 Series) - maybe the 1.1 series. Anyway, WC tends to go back to certain brands, so I think the odds are in your favor.
Dave
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WC,
You mentioned "We clearly hear differently. ", which I don't understand. I had identified bass issues, and you mentioned that the bass is loose with the 160m. Seems to me that is more along the same lines.
Dave
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Thanks Jay and Gryphon! Much better than the 160m's.
Dave
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I feel the Pass pulls me in more - love the decays, and there's a quiet between notes that creates a little more drama and interest. The Gryphon does sound really good though.
Dave
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Sounds good WC! Will be interesting to see how the X600.8's compare -will the Pandora be used with them as well?
Dave
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I know a lot of folks are liking the Essence Monos + Pandora, and there is a lot to like for me as well. At times though it's maybe a tad too forward and maybe a little - well I don't want to say bright - anyway, it will be interesting to compare to the Pass Labs.
Dave
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Speaking of that - I prefer the Pass Labs presentation in the comparison videos. The top end with the Essence is just a bit too much. The presence is nice at times, but the Pass Labs has the quiet, seemingly longer decays, more dramatic in those ways. I suspect the Pass Labs can be listened to for longer periods and perhaps turned up a bit more.
Dave
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Completely agree with everything in your post kren0006. For all we know, he could have better hearing than any of us.
I think some folks like more forward and brighter to some degree, as seen in the current shootout - some are liking the more forward presentation of the Essence. viber6 takes that to an even higher degree, which as kren0006 mentions, puts his view as less prevailing. While I understand viber6’s logic, and I can see how that would appeal for him, it’s not for most folks. That again though is an assumption. I think WC asked viber6 to share videos of his system, so that we can hear what he prefers and see what we think; however, I do not think he has done that yet.
Dave
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I am really struggling to guess how inna will vote...
Dave
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One thing to continue to keep in perspective - what sounds best to viber6 might not be best to other folks. The same for me - what I think is best would not be best to some other folks. I would not be surprised if viber6 ended up liking the PS Audio amps better than many of the amps that WC has had in house, especially if they're not euphonic sounding. It would definitely be interesting though to hear the amp(s) that viber6 is talking about and see how well they do. I'm sure they're good sounding amps, and they might show how much value they bring. I like the open mind WC.
Dave
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Shall we start guessing on the next set of speakers?
Dave
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I think kren0006 might be right - he mentioned the Sonus Faber, and I had forgotten about the timeframe to get them.
Dave
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Go Suns! Love the purple and orange color combination now in your room! Much better than purple and yellow!!
Looking forward to the videos to come with this speaker.
Dave
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Wow! That does sound really good!
Dave
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Looking forward to your review of the fuses. I have one of the blue fuses on my home theater processor, and I was thinking about orange - though I'm not sure how much of an improvement it would provide.
Dave
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I really enjoyed #1 and thought it sounded really great - nothing to fault when listening on its own. Then I listened to #2 and enjoyed the decay and the overall sense of liveliness, perhaps even a greater sense of slam. My preference would be #2 at this point.
Dave
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"159 voted so far and 69% are leaning towards demonstration 2. Is the entire world correct for choosing #1 or is the minority of 31% correct?"
WC, did you mean to say "...for choosing #2..."? I think there will not be any "correct" at the end of the day, because "correct" for each person is based upon their preferences. I think that, if anything, it shows which presentation the majority of the folks lean towards, and which presentation is in the minority.
Dave
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