My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
IMO the best shootout since the channel started was the 3-way preamp shootout between Ayre, Dag, and I think it was ARC. Long time ago. Second best was Sasha DAW vs that Focal model you had at time (forget name because we didn’t see much of it). Third place goes to 20.7 vs Martin Logan 15a or 13a (forget which it was) |
The only way to really know whether you are the only person to assemble the same system you have (Gryphon, Boulder, Alexx), would be to know exactly how many of each (or more particularly, exacly how many of one of the three) have been sold, and what each of those final systems corresponding to that number looks like. That’s probably not practical, unless you know somebody at an executive level in one of the three companies that would actually tell you the number that have been sold, and then you’d still have to track down what each of those systems looks like. Ie, near impossible. Now if only 5 or 10 Mephistos or Boulders have ever been sold (I’m sure way more than 10 Alexx’s have been sold because the speakers have been out for years), then that changes the probabilities and maybe it is likely your system could be unique. But even if there have been at least 100 Mephistos, Boulders and Alexxs sold, each, the odds that someone has this combination is actually fairly likely, because anyone purchasing this quality level will look to pair with comparative quality level, and there aren’t all that many choices in 100k+ speakers, and $50k+ solid state amp and preamps. What you can say with more certainty is that you are the only one on the Internet posting videos or commentary of their system that has this combination. That’s believable for sure. Or that you’re the only one you know who’s done it - I’m sure that’s true but as I say there is no realistic way for you to know who has -- probably only 1% of folks either post videos of their systems or write extensively about them online. Most just buy and listen. Again, not meant to be confrontational, just (perhaps) a reality check. |
In general I really appreciate the variety of music that WC plays in the videos. WC, when you say that the Alexx is pointing out flaws that you’ve always gotten away with before, do you mean that Alexx is the most resolving and highest clarity speaker you’ve ever had? Oh yeah, and keep the lab as messy as necessary to do the work!! That’s how it’s supposed to look! Much cleaner than the lab of the marantz sound master! https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/marantz-30-series-overview-model-30-sacd-30/ |
First off, thanks for doing this. Really fun to geek out and listen and compare. Normal people would surely think anyone who does this is f’ing nuts but screw ’em. Ok, I listened carefully to all four presentations successively with headphones in reverse order. You basically have four combinations of two variables. Gryphon Pandora vs Boulder Preamp. And Synergistic Research vs. Audioquest Speaker cables. And the four combinations across those two variables. First impression: The biggest difference was in the Boulder preamp >> the Pandora preamp. Dynamics so much better. Almost sounded like volume higher on videos 1 and 2 (Boulder) versus 3 and 4 (Pandora). Second impression: To a lesser degree than the preamp difference, I preferred the Audioquest cables to the Synergistic Research cables. More airy presentation, better clarity, better decay. That said, it could be that the SR does bass a little better than the AQ. Bass actually seemed tightest on video 4 (but that could be Alexx breakin, see comment below). So ranking the video presentations in order for me: 1st place: Video 2 (Boulder/AQ). 2nd place: Video 1 (Boulder/SR). 3rd place: Video 3 (Pandora/AQ). 4th place: Video 4 (Pandora/SR). Fun stuff. I actually think I could hear the Alexx come in better across the four videos also. By #4 Alexx seemed to be settling in better, especially on bass. Now I might be completely wrong on all of this, but that’s what I heard. |
Yeah chime in before WC gives his impressions. Tell me I’m crazy if you disagree with what I heard. I won’t be offended. I thought the differences in preamps was much larger than the cable differences, but I suppose that is exactly what one would expect, as components should have bigger differences than cables usually |
I hope I'm wrong on the Tekton guess, as I don't have any interest in that brand (I find them hideous looking, even though I'm sure they sound nice). Nice work WC getting two stands in for the Boulders. I like how you showed the imperfections of the one stand. So now are all three stands Critical Mass? I can't remember what the Gryphon is on. You also had one other fancy stand that wouldn't support the Gryphon - is that one still around as well? |
I say leave the Audioquest power cords. Look at it this way: Nobody uses the stock Mephisto power cords, probably almost everyone uses the Boulder stock power cords, so using the AQ would be a more realistic real-world setup, plus it narrows the cost gap between the two setups. That in itself is just as powerful a fairness argument than having to use stock power cords across the board, for "stock-ness" sake. To do the shootout with stock Gryphon cables probably doesn’t have much relation to real life. Maybe on some level there’s a fairness thing but if nobody ever uses that setup what good is it? Plus the familiarity issue for yourself and the previous videos (continuity). It’s a different situation with Gryphon than Boulder with stock power cords given the funky connectors there. I get it there are arguments for using stock power cords and do whatever you think makes most sense but that’s what I’d say. |
If WC starts pandering to music selection requests or setup tweaks or whatever it will be a never ending slippery slope. He has gotten this far - I think he knows what he’s doing more than most making the suggestions (not intended as an insult of anyone - just stating that he doesn’t have time to accommodate all of you). That doesn’t mean everyone should stop making suggestions (heck, I myself recently advised him to keep the AQ power cables when he asked for suggestions on that (and which advise he took and will implement)), but if he doesn’t ask for help he probably isn’t looking for it, just sayin’ |
Ha, I didn’t even look to see if Gryphon has a speaker under $100k or in the weight class WC mention. Maybe they don’t. Just thought about it for 10 seconds and posted my guess. Plus I think the only reason he’d get rid of what has obviously been his favorite speaker per his listening comments (despite his hedging now) would be to evaluate more Gryphon for purpose mentioned I was right about Mephisto Solo when so many were guessing Block Audio. But I’ve been wrong before - wouldn’t be first time. i’ll say if it isn’t Gryphon then I think it is a brand he’s had before because were it not I think he’d have said that |
Nope, not referring to anyone in particular. It wasn't meant as a negative statement, just a reality check that he probably is not gonna listen to suggestions that deviate too much from what he's been doing to this point (and that's not a knock on him either). Agree that better to make one change at time |
Ron, perhaps. Let's see.... It actually would not surprise me if 2021 is the year WC brings a solid vinyl setup into his room......now wouldn't that shock everyone here....... He has already had top-of-the-line digital (not currently), and now his speakers and electronics have caught up. Analog seems like a natural progression. Maybe not 2021...2022 probably more likely. He will say he has no interest at this time, and I believe him...........for now. But once the college player begins dominating there and finding it more and more difficult to find challenges at that level, it is inevitable to look to the pros. |
Haha, I was right again. That’s 6 straight correct predictions in a row without a miss (Tekton, Alexx (model and timing, to the day), Mephisto, Magnepan 20.7, Focal (generally called the make, not model, “some Focal”), Alexia 2). I should just quit while ahead because not sustainable. (Well I guess I’m already on record predicting Gryphon Mephisto solos are next). I didn’t call the Boulders (someone else did), but I also didn’t incorrectly predict something else (in that case WC hadn’t told us something was coming like he usually does). I wonder what WC thinks when he reads my predictions days or weeks b4 he reveals and he’s the only one who knows they’re correct?? Probably he is thinking, “I wish that guy would quit guessing my next move!” |
Viber, for the millionth time WC has told you that a good preamp is better than without it. He just told you that dac direct into Mephisto sounds like crap. You are a slow learner on this point. Stop wasting the thread’s time with your never-ending insistence to the contrary about systems you’ve never heard. indeed, if this entire thread were boiled down to WC’s top 5 lessons, that would be one of them. That a good preamp is better than no preamp with the level of gear to which this thread pertains. Why? Because dac-direct sounds unnatural and distorted. I realize that is the type of sound you prefer but your sonic preferences are fringe and minority |
Like I said initially, there are decent arguments for either method of test. Obviously I prefer the method WC ended up choosing for the reasons I stated above, but I wouldn’t be whining if he had gone the other route. WC had to pick one and he did. Nothing to get worked up about unless one has a vested interest in the outcome. I have to admit I am also curious to see how the classical and jazz presentations sound if/when Viber et al provide something WC approves of. One of my favorite jazz tunes on my system is Mister Magic by the late Grover Washington Jr. I suspect WC would like it as well. |
I have nothing against your preferences. But you incessantly tell WC to try dac- direct and he tells you it is awful for his preferences. You do not respect his conclusions (he has tried it dozens of times and thinks it sucks in comparison) . And it gets old reading the same old blather on dac direct from you. I bet WC has told you 20 times at a minimum that a good preamp is better, so stop beating a dead horse. WC strongly prefers a preamp and nobody cares that you do not (except that it likely further validates WC’s conclusions based on your fringe preferences) |
We all get carried away sometimes. WC reached a breaking point this time with Viber as he has other times in past, as I have, and as others have. By same token, Viber and Dave and probably others have reached breaking point with some of my posts and WC and I have sparred on occasion (lucky for him it is just on forum and not in the MMA ring, haha, definitely kidding about that one). I think it’s cool that faxer allows customers to bring gear in and test stuff. That ain’t all that common and much respect for that. Nobody said GTA doesn’t sell well and glad to hear it does. Fact remains it’s never made it to WC’s room so still kinda out of place for this thread despite endless promotion as WC mentions. But if he invited posting the video I guess that’s WC’s prerogative. Looking forward to next Gryphon Boulder video and especially finally hearing WC thoughts on how they compare. |
Maybe for 2021 after you go Lampizator DAC with your first move (my new prediction, I’ll stand by the Gryphon Solos prediction but I sense that may take many months or even a year or two) in a nod toward the masses and YT appeal you could bring back your current “best amp under $12k” Luxman L590axii class A and see how it stacks up against Boulder 866? That would be interesting. Maybe tie it in to offering your opinion on where the breakeven line in sonic quality crosses over from integrated amps to separates??? Just throwing out interesting topics that people would probably be interested in hearing your opinion on, especially combined with a fine integrated amp shootout like Luxman v Boulder |
Yep, no doubt Alexx is a tough speaker to drive. Maybe you will bring in a longer term budget speaker so that again you can have a franchise speaker (Alexx) and a budget speaker at same time for different purposes. When you had Alexia 2 and 20.7 you made comments suggesting that was your plan at the time to do that going forward, and it worked really well to have both Alexia 2 and 20.7 for as long as you did, I thought. Perhaps you’ll find a good deal on another great sub-$15k speaker that would make an integrated shootout like that a better fit. |
Just had chance to listen critically to both Boulder/Gryphon videos. I can get onboard with WC conclusion that Gryphon/SR the best of the four combos. I really liked Gryphon AQ combo though also. I think somebody else said above that combo is the value leader, and I’d have to agree. Funny to say value leader when the system still probably close to $300k with Alexx, Gryphon, dCS, cables. Noticeable stepdown in quality of sound with Tekton video with Alexx out of mix, but that is to be expected, I suppose. Big difference in clarity, resolution, bass tightness, lower midrange, .... Still sound very good. I was not expecting them to compete with Alexx, and WC warned us days ago in the live chat that they do not compete at all with Alexx, but I’m sure there are some here who will say they beat the Alexx. I suspect the Tektons would beat the 20.7 in a head to head because it can do things 20.7 just cannot. Probably strong contender under $15k I’d guess. I think this one could be a contender against that Focal two Focals ago (the one that lost to the Wilson Sasha DAW - forget what it was called). That might have been a good matchup. Or maybe even that recent Magico that I didn’t care for and was gone in a couple days. |
I also was expecting the Tektons to sound better, if only because so many rave about them on Agon and I think this is the top model. I figured, well I did just listen to 40 straight minutes of Alexx (the two shootout videos) right before listening to the Tekton vid, so probably that is a very tough act to follow, so I probably inadvertently cut them some slack. When I get some free time I do want to go back and compare the Tekton sound to some of the lesser speakers WC has had, like the Maggie 3.7i and 20.7 and the Dynaudio’s just to hear how they stack up. |
Viber, I know you are not an electrical engineer like I am, but what you are missing is that the dac direct cannot be used without using its inferior volume control. So the relevant comparison is not analog output stage of dac in isolation versus dac output stage and additional preamp, the comparison you are trying to draw -- that doesn’t even make any sense -- rather it is dac volume control versus preamp (the analog output stage of dac is always there either way, so that’s not germane to the comparison). You are of course free to prefer the volume control of the dac, but it is not two preamps in tandem as you claim. Don’t be so sensitive. If I was posting incorrect medical theories I’m sure you’d step in to point out when I’m wrong. I give you a pretty long leash and ignore most of the inaccurate statements you make, but when you continue to post dogmatic statements that are incorrect, I point them out. And when you go so far as to claim such is a "law of physics," yes, that is a statement that should be ignored - I stand by it. |
I will give Viber the benefit of the doubt and believe him when he says that if he were to play around with Tekton and Rane, that he would be able to get them to a place where HE, and he alone, would prefer Tekton/Rane to Wilson Alexx. Why? Because we’ve seen Viber argue about Rane, Mytek, Bryston, lamp cord speaker cables, and other things, and about how he thinks those are superior to everything that WC uses. Note I am not directly criticizing any of the above, I am simply stating that this is what Viber believes, as he’s told us innumerable times. So he really believes that for himself. Let’s agree to let him live in that world, so long as he doesn’t try to push that world onto the rest of us. |
Speed bump, Not to start an argument but where did I value V’s equipment? I haven’t heard any of V’s equipment. V is the one who contends it is better than what WC has, at least for him. All I said was I am willing to take V at his word as it pertains to his preferences. Don’t look to stir up trouble for the sake of it. Life is too short. I agree with you that in end it only matters what person spending the $$ thinks. But on this thread WC asks us to provide opinions on what we hear on his vids |
