Lightspeed Attenuator - Best Preamp Ever?


The question is a bit rhetorical. No preamp is the best ever, and much depends on system context. I am starting this thread beacuase there is a lot of info on this preamp in a Music First Audio Passive...thread, an Slagle AVC Modules...thread and wanted to be sure that information on this amazing product did not get lost in those threads.

I suspect that many folks may give this preamp a try at $450, direct from Australia, so I thought it would be good for current owners and future owners to have a place to describe their experience with this preamp.

It is a passive preamp that uses light LEDs, rather than mechanical contacts, to alter resistance and thereby attenuation of the source signal. It has been extremely hot in the DIY community, since the maker of this preamp provided gernerously provided information on how to make one. The trick is that while there are few parts, getting it done right, the matching of the parts is time consuming and tricky, and to boot, most of use would solder our fingers together if we tried. At $450, don't bother. It is cased in a small chassis that is fully shielded alloy, it gets it's RF sink earth via the interconnects. Vibration doesn't come into it as there is nothing to get vibrated as it's passive, even the active led's are immune as they are gas element, no filaments. The feet I attach are soft silicon/sorbethane compound anyway just in case.

This is not audio jewelry with bling, but solidly made and there is little room (if any) for audionervosa or tweaking.

So is this the best preamp ever? It might be if you have a single source (though you could use a switch box), your source is 2v or higher, your IC from pre-amp to amp is less than 2m to keep capaitance low, your amp is 5kohm input or higher (most any tube amp), and your amp is relatively sensitive (1v input sensitivity or lower v would be just right). In other words, within a passive friendly system (you do have to give this some thought), this is the finest passive preamp I have ever heard, and I have has many ranging form resistor-based to TVCs and AVCs.

In my system, with my equipment, I think it is the best I have heard passive or active, but I lean towards prefering preamp neutrality and transparency, without loosing musicality, dynamics, or the handling of low bass and highs.

If you own one, what are your impressions versus anything you have heard?

Is it the best ever? I suspect for some it may be, and to say that for a $450 product makes it stupidgood.
pubul57

Showing 50 responses by pubul57

Ralph is a very sharp mind and I am sure that he is not confusing Flecher-Munson for something else. It does seem however that in the real world with low capacitance IC (my total capacitance with 2 meters is 72pf) that the impedance impact is true, theoretically correct, but inaudible under these circumstances, especially since my hearing is proabaly down 20db at 15khz:) But, obviously with very long cable runs it might very well be the case that buffering is called for. What I still don't understand and would like to hear from Ralph is why gain is of any value except in the obvious cases where the source output is very low and perhaps with some sources and his amps which are 2.83v sensitive. One of the reasons I think his OTLs are among the finest sounding amplifiers of any kind is that he eliminates the complexity and distortion inherent in output transformers, so the tube is directly coupled to the driver in the speaker. A philosophy of less is more, less complexity (in parts and wires)more purity in sound. In some sense the very same thing that is appealing about a passive, bufferless linestage. In the same way that a transformer leads to distortion and bandwidth limitations, it seems to me that the electronics neede for gain in a linestage has some of the very same "problems" as a transformer has in a tube amp. But I do realize I know close to nothing about electronics, and this may be a false metaphor, but I don't understand why.
Simply on the issue of gain (not impedance matchin and IC ocntrol)It seems two pretty good designers, Roger Modjeski and Nelson Pass, have said that having gain in a linestage will not make things better when a source component has adequate voltage (Roger more vehment that it will make things worse), and I can't imagine it can do any good to have the signal go "through all that" when it isn't necessary - like a transformer in a tube amp. Whatever the theories, my LSA/RM10 and MP3/M60s sound fantastic, the M60s being the best amps I have heard with my OTL friendly speakers.
George, does that mean that with some sources, Ralphs aregument is correct due to the coupling caps?

Ralph, what is your view of the argument that complexity required to add gain in a linestage does more harm than good when gain is not needed?
A good argument for getting a preamp and amp from the same manufacturer that knows what they are doing and optimized to work together.
I think Ralph also makes a high quality volume control as an option on some [?] all of his amps. I suspect this is the very best way for an amplifier, but for the fact that audiophiles tend to like to mix and match gear and this has the sort of perceived limitation that you have with an integrated; in that sense. I would love to have an LDR volume control on my M60s, and or a Pass B1 with an LDR, as I think the LDR is this best method for building an attenuator (without mechanical contacts, wear and tear). I suspect if the Built-in volume control was available with the M60s when I bought them, that is the path I would have take, but Ralph's preamp undoubtedly works brilliantly with his amps.
George, I know you have worked on the LSA for a long-time, so I imagine it is very well "sorted", is there conceptual room for improvement (sound side, not aesthetics)with the LSA that you have in mind or is a MKII not likely, other than possibly offering more inputs/outputs/balanced if you chose to expand the product line? Frankly, I think if there is a patent involved, licensing would make a lot of sense, more time surfing:)
I'm guessing here, but I would imagine the only concern would be the linearity of the LDRs, proper matching, and performance over time (George has had these in the field quite along time). The brilliance of the LSA is that it takes away the need for a very high quality, and usually expensive switches, which no matter how good, can't overcome the laws of physics, the diode thingy George talks about.
Is the use of a transformer/autoformer or buffer in a passive the same? Are they just different ways of lowering the output impedance of the preamp, or is there some other function that distinguishes xformers from buffers?
"I quickly put a stop to it showing proof to the patent offices in Eu and USA that I first did the LDR volume control back in early 1974."

Good!
I really like the thread interface you have on the site, very easy to ride, follow, and edit or preview before finalizing.
Oh, and congratulations and good luck on the Electra-Fidelity venture ... seems like you will at least have a good time with it, and beyond that, who knows......
Thanks Ralph is a very important bit of information and affects the advice given for ideal matching, especially since there seems to be a phobia, or worry that turning the volume control to high is somehow stressing the system in some way. As this relates to the M60s, does that suggest that it is best to set their gain at minimum settings based on the same reasoning whether using the LSA or MP-3?
George, this may have been asked elsewhere in the thread, but I can't find it, is it possible to make a balanced version of the LSA?
If your speaker are 92db and you have 500 watts, loosing 75% of that power would not be very noticeable even if never driven to max ouput.
I don't think the output, input shortfall would be heard in your case. I think Anthony was running the Atma-sphere S30 which are not very sensitive for full about, maybe 2.8v - with no apparent gain issues.
That is above my pay grade:) I think George could answer the DAC question later today (he is in Australia) - mine has a 2v or 4v switch, but that seems to be fairly uncommon. Yes I do think you would loose some ouput potential, but with your kind of power and your current speaker I'm not sure you would be able to hear any difference. I assume you have a SS amp, I would think the impedance match might be more of an issue than sensitivity (with most, not all SS amps).
Almarg, I suspect you are right, Ralph's spec sheets don't specify single-ended sensitivity specs. So, given a 3db loss, or a 50% reduction in wattage, assuming a worse case scenario, it will seems Jult52 more than sufficient power to drive his speakers VERY loud in most rooms, I assume Maggies are not for headbangers. So, yes there is a slight loss in max power, but do you think it would be relevant? But then again I come from drive my Merlin VSMs with 27-60 watts amps.
G, have you come to believe that a battery approach sounds battery in some way to walwart?
Well, I'm going to have to try it, Anthony has a link for the battery at his electra-fidelity site.
Thanks, I missed that. I assume it comes with a Global power plug that would work here as it comes from Australia.
I'm sure I asked this earlier, but can't find my question or the answer - can the LSA be built as a balanced output, if so, any serious advantage to that with let's say an Atma-sphere amp?
Al, as you might know, I am very non-technical, so I had to read what you wrote a few times. Is it correct to say that

A transformer replaces resistors as the means of attenuating the signal and provides some impedance matching help.

Buffers attenuate nothing, but creat ideal impedance matching.
George is the expert and I'm sure he will give you the definitive answer, but I think I read somewhere that LDRs work a little different and that I'm not sure it actually improves as you get further into the rotation as is normal with most attenuators. George? Al? Anthony?
Forget "ideal" - didn't mean to say that, but I think you know how I did mean it.
I was rading a review of some VH Audio Power Cords" by Jim Merod for Of Sound and Music. I beleive he is a recording engineer - if that matters. in the context of that review he said something very appropos to the LSA experience, I why I love it:

"No superior power cord should "enhance" music by adding dynamic slam or transient bloom or etched imaging. Sometimes one may be tempted, hearing such artifacts, to believe that such "more" is good or better...or amazing. Such artifacts are exaggerations that distort or attenuate the relaxed vivacity of well-recorded sound. All audio equipment should be sold with a generic disclaimer: Do Not Be Fooled By Sonic Cartoons!"

I think the LSA is a "preamp" Jim Merod could love.
I have a wallwart I purchased from Circuit-Test. It is 12VDC, 400mA, and is a linear power supply. Absent a battery PS which may sound better, is that all I need in an AC adapter?
Reliability is golden. I certainly would not be interested in paying 3x for remote - I'm really not that lazy:) What about the idea of LDRs at the amp input - no IC? Endler Style Attenuators with the superior Lightspeed LDR attenuator.
George, this may be an odd question to ask a designer, but can you envision any future implementation that might sound even better in a passive friendly environment (no need for gain or buffer)on the LSA? I mean sonics. Sure cosmetics could evolve, perhaps some more I/O flexibility, but given that this is the best sounding "preamplifier" I have heard in my system, and that you have been sorting it out for 30+ years, is the any room for improvement that you can envision?
On the famous DIY thread, it appears that have some tried the remote route, but it requires some drift from the purity of sound you get without it. I would be willing to go with a manual "Endler" approach, but it would be a bit inconvenient getting changing volume levels and rebalancing channels.
"Would the lay public be able to say "wow, that one sounds SO much better..." I am doubtful." When it comes to preamps, amps with sufficient power to drive the speaker, and cables of any ilk, I would say you are 100% right. The difference between speakers however (and room placement) would be pretty obvious even to the most leaden, "untrained" of ears.